“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”

Its a completely stupid policy and is in my mind the biggest failure of the Clinton adminstration.

I’ve never been in the military myself but for eight years I was a military spouse as my wife served in the Army so I am familiar with the culture. And let me tell you something, gays aren’t even 1% the distraction in the military that women are. What do you think happens when you have hundreds of men in a unit to just a handful of women? The men act like the 18-22 year olds they are and act like idiots trying to get attention from the women. I saw it happen time and time and time again with my wife as so many men were constantly trying to flirt with her and get attention. Yet the Army chugged on and survived. Gays don’t even pose a fraction of the disruption that females do.

Yeah, our current “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy likens us to Iran. Remember when The President of Iran, Ahmadinejackarse came over here, to the U.S.A., and said there are no fags in Iran? Best joke of the day. Everyone laughed and even he smiled (in embarrassment).

With the military’s current “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy we are no better than Iran. Iran requires that fags have sex changes or be killed. If they act out on their homosexual “urges” they will be killed without the opportunity of affording a sex change. Plus, they have to pay for the sex change themselves. Big challenge.

Essentially, our government is doing the same thing to damn good soldiers who happen to be… gay.

Lie about who and what you are, keep it in the closet, or Uncle Sam will destroy you!

Meanwhile the federal government have included gays in the group who are targeted as “hate crimed.” Why? Because their are that great number of people out their who want to hurt and even kill people, especially men, just because they are homosexuals.

The courts are also protecting gays who are discriminated simply because of their sexual preference when applying for jobs, in the work force, and in home rental applications.

But our own government wants to continue and discriminate against them? Why? It doesn’t make sense.

No wonder so many of them stay in the closet.

Whenever I hear the term “don’t ask don’t tell” it reminds me of a conversation with a co-worker a few years back.

This male co-worker was making some none-too-kind comments about homosexuals. This was in a common break room with several other people. I can’t remember exactly what he said, but it was something referring to his being uncomfortable around gay men because all they want to do is have sex with everyone.

After too much of this, I felt the need to interject, and asked this obviously “phobic” person: “Do you think that every woman that you meet wants to have sex with you?”

He quickly said “no, I don’t”, to which I answered “then what makes you think that every gay man is attracted to you and wants to have sex with you?”

That effectively ended the conversation.

To this day I think that a lot of people that are pro “don’t ask don’t tell” think that being gay means that all they do is have sex with absolutely everyone they can all the time. They can’t wrap their heads around the idea that these people just want to be happy and live their lives.

Very good point, and very well put.

I won’t deny that many are the times that I don’t understand how the male mind works lol.

Wow. I am really impressed! Conservatives admitting they were wrong? Conservatives siding with gays on an issue? Conservatives even comparing their own past policies to the ideas of Iranian radicals??!! I am in shock!

Now comes the apology. You never want to make fun when someone is taking positive steps…or criticize when a person is being gracious enough to admit a mistake. I’m sorry.

As some of you may have guessed by now (if you have ready any of my comments) I am a liberal democrat with ideas that are vastly different from the majority of my fellow Idahoans. Here I feel like much more of a sore thumb than I ever did living in, say, California! I wonder if there are any other liberals that frequent this site? Regardless, I must say that I have been very pleased to read the comments that so many of you make here on Idahofallstoday. There are thinkers and pragmatists in Idaho after all! Commentators like Wendyjo and Untwisted are so much fun to read!

Back to the topic at hand, I suppose. I am a gay man who was discharged from the Navy for refusing to abide by the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

I signed up through the delayed entry program when I was seventeen. It was my desperate attempt to get off the Hawaiian islands where I had lived for the last four years. I was evaluated and offered a series of possible careers that the recruitment department felt would be good fits for my intelligence level and personality type. After much deliberation I chose Naval Intelligence over cryptography or corpsman. The January after my high school graduation I shipped out to boot camp at Great Lakes, Illinois. Anyone been in the Great Lakes area in the dead of winter? ‘Nuff said.

My first duty station was the Navy and Marine Corps Intel Training Center (or NMITC) in Dam Neck Virginia. There I learned my trade, learned to live as an independent adult, and made friends with a very attractive Italian boy named Chris. After about two months of studying together, Chris told me that he was gay…and, after much internal turmoil, I eventually confessed the same to him.

At my next duty station, working as an IS (intelligence specialist) aboard the U.S.S. John C. Stennis, I worked hard and excelled at my job. I learned to deliver briefs, map flight paths, identify foreign military units, and loved every minute of it. I felt important and fulfilled. I also learned, however, that just like in high school, I had to hide my true sexual and emotional attractions from those around me at any cost.

I lasted a while living that way. I was sad and lonely a lot, but took solace in the fact that I had a cool job that let me travel and was going to lead me to a bright future. Eventually, however, something inevitable happened that drastically changed my ability to continue living my dual life. I fell in love.

I had been involved in numerous encounters with the same sex during my school days. But, when I met Steve, who was home for the summer from Notre Dame, I knew it was something different. We entered into a relationship that was a first for me. He would write to me while I was out on tour. We would share phone calls whenever the sea-phones were made available to me. And when I wasn’t at sea we spent some of the most incredibly memorable moments of my life together.

You know how it is when you love for the first time. My ideals became much more forward in my thoughts. I felt I could accomplish anything and go anywhere. I envisioned years and years of blissful peace with this fantastic individual by my side. I decided it was hypocritical and weak to lie about my sexuality to my fellow sailors any longer. I came out to those that I worked most closely with. I wanted everyone to know about this unique and wonderful person that I was with. I wanted them to respect him and accept him. And….some of them did. But one individual, with whom I had never gotten along, reported me to my commanding officer. An investigation was begun.

After a couple of weeks I was called in to speak with the commander who was in charge of the division. He told me that he wasn’t going to take things any further as long as I would commit to him not to speak about my sexual preference with any other sailor. It seems reasonable and, if I had it to do over again, I’d probably accept his offer. At the time, though, I was in love. I felt I was being asked to keep that love secret and didn’t like it one bit. I pointed out to my commander the unfairness of the situation by picking up a framed photograph of his wife and kids that was sitting on the desk for all to see. I commented that he came in to work after leave and, without fail, regaled us with funny stories about what he and his wife had done with their children or what she had gotten him for their anniversary, or even how unreasonable she was being in a particular argument. At one point I showed him a picture of Steve in my wallet, and asked him how I was supposed to respond to another sailor that asked me who he was. What if a colleague ran into me and Steve while we were out at a restaurant having dinner? How would I introduce my partner? Would he have to be my friend, my cousin, or just “this is Steve?”

In the end I told my superiors that I would no longer agree to keep quiet about my life because it felt too much like I was condoning the treatment of my relationship as second class and invalid. I felt that, if I wasn’t allowed to talk about my love life with other sailors, the same rule should apply to everyone. I was severed from the Navy within six months of the first report of my failure to comply. I was given an honorable discharge, but informed that it would be classified RE-4…meaning I could never reenlist.

I struggled for a long time after that. I was especially down on myself when my relationship with Steve ended literally a month after my being booted.

The policy is flawed and discriminates against a part of society that has committed no crime. The 2003 (not that long ago, huh?) supreme court decision on Lawrence v. Texas decriminalized homosexual intimacy in our country. In so doing, it also invalidated many many state laws preventing homosexual sex. That should have been the end of the debate on “Don’t ask, don’t tell.” If the act is no longer criminal, then why should it even be of concern to the military? I guarantee that gay people have fought and died for this country in every single war it’s ever fought. They did it because they valued freedom and democracy…

Wow Kevin, incredible story. That took a lot of guts to share and I thank you for it.

I am very moved by all of these stories. I actually got teary eyed. Thank you all so much for your inspiration.

Ha-ha, my ex was in the Navy and an Officer. He’d attended the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, where he received his bachelor’s degree in general engineering and then served 4 years on a ship as an Officer; as a gay man; without having sex.

The only reason he went into the service? His family had a long history as officers in the Navy and he had a 4.0 grade average in high school. Even though he was completely opposed to his parents Republic views, words and ways, although his youthful liberalism cried out to be heard? The money his aunt who’d helped raise him when he was born had been left to him in care of his wicked, right wing mother.

Mother dearest lost 3 or 4 pregnancies before having Clay baby. Back then, the doctors weren’t knowledgeable enough to know why. Clay survived. Hallelujah!

Mom H. was immediately diagnosed with breast and uterus cancer. Crap! Her breasts and uterus were excommunicated and burned in hell!

No little brothers or sisters for Clay.
While Mom H. recovered an Aunt raised Clay for several months. He and his mother never did bond.

For whatever reason, hormones, birth defect or that’s just the way it was meant to be, Clay was born a fag. And an Officer. In the Navy.

We divorced. I kept his mother after we moved her here from Washington DC. I knew he wouldn’t take care of her. When she was in her 90’s and began having seizures and TIA’s regularly I knew it was time to admit her to a long term care center. She needed more care than I was able to give her. She died at the age of 94. Her only child, Clay, the good doctor/officer didn’t even come to see her.

I went and identified Mom H’s body, kissed her good bye and signed the papers. She was cremated and her ashed are still waiting to be sent to join Dad H’s ashes in DC because Clay hasn’t had the time to take them there. She died two years ago.

He’s such a fag

Apparently not

He was born a fag but married a woman? That makes a lot of sense.

Why does that not make sense?

An individual who hides his identity by lying not just to himself, his family, friends but also to a woman he’s told he’ll spend the rest of his life with, is a fag. I’m the one he lied to, the one he used to hide his true identity. I believe he’s a fag.