On the way to work yesterday, I heard an interesting debate on the radio. The debate was over whether people should be allowed to save or reserve spaces along the green belt in preparation for the Melaleuca Freedom Celebration this Saturday.
We’ve all seen it, whether it is for a parade or the fireworks display, people arrive downtown early and place blankets, chairs, or tape off a designated area and then leave.
In my book, it is okay to save one or two spaces (maybe), provided someone is actually there to reserve the space. That goes for church pews, seating along the parade route, or greenbelt space for the fireworks. However, if you just sit your stuff up or section/tape a space off and then leave, too bad. As I see it, the space is fair game and should be considered abandoned.
This is an issue, unfortunately, that drives me nuts. When I arrive with my entire family to anything (church, school plays, whatever) on time, if not early, and all the good seats or spaces are taken via this debated practice of “saving or reserving,” it gets to me and I don’t know why.
If you cannot be there on time and in person, you should not be able to jump the line. The people who practice this have some nerve, in my opinion.
Could you imagine these same people trying this at an amusement park, concert line, or black Friday sales? They’d get their backsides kicked. Then why is okay for them to do this for parades, firework displays, church, and school plays – yet, they wouldn’t even consider doing elsewhere?
What are your thoughts? Should this practice be tolerated? If you practice this, what would you do if you came back to your “saved/reserved” spot on your chairs or tape was moved? 
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This practice should, in my opinion, not be tolerated. It is hard enough to find a seat without this practice. But until it is considered against the law, it will still happen. If I was to do this, I would expect someone to remove my blankets etc…, and I would do nothing unless my stuff was stolen. I have a spot to go for the fourth, and so far, no one else has found out about it. I do not reserve it, because I think that is cheating and cutting in line. I think that is what we should all do, is do our best to find a spot, and enjoy the fireworks that way. Of course I know finding a spot is hard, but it can happen if you try hard enough.
This practice has always irritated me, and people seem to be more and more brazen about it. Personally, I would like to see people move people’s things aside. It’s not illegal to save a space, it’s also not illegal to move someone’s abandoned items. When we were kids, my parents would bring us to the river hours in advance, and we would play and enjoy the time, and we never had trouble finding a spot.
If someone is there, of course that would be different, but if you don’t leave a warm body, the space is public and hence fair game. The exception to this rule would be people saving space on their own private property. I know people who live by the river and every year their property is trampled by clods who have no regard for their landscaping, and then this family spends the next day cleaning up after these people.
I’m also one of those people that shows up to the movies early enough to get a good seat and have no sympathy for people who show up after the movie starts and can’t find space for 6 people to sit together.
This last Easter, my daughter and I took her son to the park for the Easter Egg hunt. he was too young for the actual “hunt” and kids his age lined up to get an egg from the Easter bunny. I lost track of the amount of parents that, after we stood in line for over half an hour, I had to tell, sometimes quite rudely, that the line started waaay back there. Some of the parents literally ignored me and pushed their little ones into the line anyway, and had to be told by the people running the event.
These people, and the people who save spaces should look at what they are teaching their children about life.
I’m able to walk from my house, so it really doesn’t make any difference in my life. I usually park myself in the middle of the road across from the boat dock and watch the show from there with my family.
However, staking off spots shouldn’t be tolerated by anybody. I’m sure that by law it’s considered littering, especially if your stuff is unattended overnight (there are quite a few stakers that do it in the evening the day before the show). Also, once you have left your stuff in a public area, I personally consider it abandoned property and up for grabs. I have yet to make a trip out to the river and claim abandoned items, just to clarify.
This goes along the same lines as the pompous douchebags that park their trailers / tents in camp-spots a week before memorial day weekend to ensure that they grab a spot. I pushed a guy out of a spot this past memorial day weekend because he parked his tent there and I showed up in person first. He threw a fit, but went his merry way…20 feet away in the same LARGE camping area.
I’ll call the city and clarify whether staking is considered littering, and if it is, I’ll be sure to take a garbage bag down and fill it up with fire starter for an upcoming camping trip.
Good deal, I’d love to hear what they tell you!
This has always bothered me and this topic seems to come up every year, at least it has the past 2-3 years but nothing is ever done about it. I think a few of us should get together Friday night and pull up all the stakes and roped off areas that weren’t specifically set up by the city of IF. Then show up Saturday afternoon and watch the bewilderment on everyone’s faces as the arrive to find their spots no longer roped off.
Im up for causing caos. I bet there are already RV’s waiting down there so they get view of the sky.
My wife told me about KIDK reporting that law enforcement would be ticketing people staking off parts of the river for the 4th, and removing the stakes of people that successfully staked areas off without getting caught. They’ll also be ticketing people that park trailers on roads around the green belt solely as some sort of retarded Independence Day camp site.
I called Parks and Rec to figure out exactly what staking off area was classified as, and they didn’t have an answer for me. They stated that it was not illegal, but they have asked that nobody stake any areas off until Friday because grass will be mowed on Thursday. No blankets / tarps either as they cause the grass to burn. I also asked about the legality of removing stakes, and they assured me that it was not illegal but “you’ll make people mad”. One thing that I didn’t clarify was whether taking and keeping the stakes / string is considered theft or not…so I’ll likely play it safe and remove stakes on Friday night, but not take them home with me =).
The discrepancy between KIDK’s report and the information that Parks and Rec gave me leaves me a bit confused though…
CR – Maybe I’ll see you down there Friday night! I don’t need to see their bewildered faces though…I don’t need to see the result to be pleased with raining on some staker’s parade!
That’s true. I can already picture the look on their faces so there’s no need to sit back and watch the madness. lol I’ll definitely be down there. IMO, It’s no better than parking in a handicapped spot, cutting in line or any of those other lazy acts of stupidity people without a conscious do.
The police said a few years ago anyone can go tear out those saved spots if nobody occupies the space. If it bugs you enough, go tear them out late Friday night or super early Saturday morning. Make a video of doing it and post it to YouTube and comment a link here. You will be a local hero.
It is in anyone’s ability to fight this problem. Either fight the problem or quit complaining.
http://diseasedmedia.com/images/4th001.jpg
http://diseasedmedia.com/images/4th002.jpg
ROFL! Marcus…you are the man! Excellent work. (save a few for me!)
I Love it!!!!!!!! You da maaaaan!
Judas
It’s more than just a little hard to believe anyone, and especially dozens of people would “stake out” public park areas to watch the fireworks far in advance of their start. pathetic
P.S. Marcus, when you pull those nasty, ugly and unwanted stakes from the public park grounds then, throw them and their attached ropes up, up, up and away into the trees. THAT is NOT polluting.
The stuff was already there. Should the stuff’s owner want it back then, he need only go up in the tree and retrieve it from said location where it was safely placed. The tree location is much safer than on the ground where just any ol’ buddy could get it and do just anything with the stakes and attacked ropes.
Thank you, Marcus, for keeping the property of those irresponsible owners safe. Thank you. Mister, you are a hero!
Happy 4th of July!
If any of you are serious, I would love to strike a blow for freedom and common sense as part of our Fourth of July celebration on Friday night.
E-mail me at djones@valleyweb.org and let’s put together a little “Neighborhood Clean-Up Party”!
Friday night?¿?
I thought the 4th was on Saturday?
It is, but it’ll be staked out on Friday night. I’m already planning on going out.
These pics were from last year =).
In the paper today, it says that staking will not be allowed and that if officers don’t catch people doing it and stop them, their stuff will be removed later.
Didn’t they say that last year? I seem to remember spots staked out all over… did they just give up?
I.F. pulls plug on ‘reserved’ seating- By JOELYN HANSEN- jhansen@postregister.com.
There will be no “saving” or “staking out” areas in advance of Saturday’s fireworks show.
Too many people have been flocking to the greenbelt in recent years, armed with string, stakes and paper signs and looking to reserve a prime vantage point days in advance.
It’s become a problem, Idaho Falls Police Sgt. David Frei said.
Therefore, Frei and his colleagues are strongly discouraging folks from doing it.
That’s not all: They plan to pull the stakes on anyone who tries to save a spot.
Police also remind fans of the fireworks show that Memorial Drive, between E Street and Broadway, will be closed and officers will enforce parking restrictions around Civitan Park in the days leading up to Saturday’s festivities.
Vehicles parked on the street for more than 48 hours will be issued parking tickets and could be towed, Frei said.
And if you plan to drive to the greenbelt Saturday, you should expect traffic delays. Frei recommends parking west of the river, if you don’t mind walking a bit.
“It will be congested, and it could be up to an hour and a half in traffic trying to get out,” Frei said.
Comment on this story on Post Talk at http://www.postregister.com/posttalk/.
Who do you think can pull more stakes, us or the cops?
Us
There was another article about this on Ch 8’s website. http://www.localnews8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10629927
Glad to see their finally doing something about these psycho stakers.
That’s what the vampires like to hear.
LOL! Agreed!
The “stakers” have been screeching to the mayor’s office, parks and rec. and police demanding to know what right city officials have to remove their stakes and string from city property. We need an ordinance making it illegal to “stake out or otherwise reserve” space on public property. It should include the dangerous practice of parking RV’s around Civitan Park. If we want to see the city do away with these discourteous practices, we better let the powers-that-be know.
Why make it a law if we can take care of it ourselves? This is why I don’t understand present day American thought.
The city officials have a right to remove things on public property because the property is not owned by those leaving “stuff” on it. Plane and simple. If it’s not your property you cannot lay claim to it. If on any other weekend of the year you have a picnic and leave all your picnic crap about you don’t expect it to be there the next day…. it’s kinda silly.
So Instead of taxing us to deal make a law and enforce it…. how many dumb stupid ingorent people would still do it…. that will help to pay for captial St to be repaved and a new overpass on pancari…. i thinks it’s a good idea and im down to rip them up try to after work can’t hit the time the e-mail told me dang it all i will do my part what name should we have for this so called Civil Local Heros Guild that has just been formed
Sorry For the miss spelling
IFPD I hope you’re watching. You have a vigilante group forming here.
I’m with Marcus, why involve the passing of a law when it’s posted on the property and people are willing to take care of it themselves?
On the other hand, I hope that at least some officers will be close to squelch the inevitable fights that will break out. After all, if the people will still try to stake out spots after it’s posted on the property and they are told on the news, then they probably aren’t above punching someone in the nose.
Marcus,
The answer to your question, “Why make it a law if we can take care of it ourselves?”
The answer is simple. Laws (and law enforcement) are in place to help us (the citizenry) avoid to inevitable confrontation that will occur when you get a group of non-civic-minded, me-first, impolite beer guzzlers being opposed by an equally passionate group of well-meaning citizens over a ridiculous issue like this.
You know that tonight, when we (I know I will be down there…say 11ish?) take a stroll along the greenbelt to take care of any unfinished clean-up the police may have missed, so blowhard “I got rights” type is gonna come barreling outa his ‘72 Datsun pickup with the ‘69 camper shell on top with a large stick, knife or worse.
I will have my cell with me and the first sign of some jerk-off stopping us from removing the stakes, etc. I’m going to let the police do their job. That’s what we pay them for, isn’t it?
HAPPY FOURTH TO ALL…
Dennis
I was hoping there was a group like this that existed here in I.F. I searched high and low for it, and FINALLY… my endeavors paid off.
My girlfriend and I were out last night pulling stakes and tossing lawn chairs. I’m excited for the morning of the 4th to see the peoples faces when they get to their spot and realize that someone ELSE is sitting there, and their stuff is either GONE, or over in a corner somewhere.
I’m certainly up for a city wide cleanup… parade OR fireworks. I always love a good confrontation. HAHA!
At 11pm, I don’t think much of anybody is going to be up and about staking stuff off. That’s around the time that I got out and did it last year, and it was pretty uneventful overall (as far as confrontation goes).
On a related note, based on the activity that I’m hearing on the scanner, cops are going to be next to voiceless come tomorrow. No screaming, but the channels haven’t been closed very much at all today and direction from dispatch / questions from officers on just what should be done with trailers and vehicles parked along Memorial has been the main topic of the day. They’ve been slapping stickers on cars since about two hours ago that state the vehicle will be towed if not moved by midnight. They’re not too excited to be stuck up all night towing cars…so from what I’m hearing, they’re getting an early start and towing now, lol.
One officer asked if it was OK for some folks to move their trailer to Freeman Park, and dispatch responded “Yes, until midnight.” LOL
I noticed this morning that people are staking off areas on Boulevard for the parade. I’m guessing a lot of these people are staking out their own yards, which, of course, is ok.
I wonder how many people try to stake off private yards that aren’t theirs?
Probably a lot.
I plan to head to Civitan Park right around 11pm tonight for stake pulling. If anybody is interested, let me know either here or on my blog where I have announced it as a scheduled event.
From the chatbox:
Marcus : List of Independence Day activities.
http://diseasedmedia.com/blog/2009/independence-day-idaho-falls-2009
Normally I wouldn’t post up a link to my blog…but I know what the turnaround time on new posts is around here. Hopefully Joe(s) will understand!
hahah marcus come help right now its so funney.
we pulled 10 spots so funey the peole who steak drive around to check on there spots. hehe see you at 11.
Hey This is UnNamed Got to work but as soon as i can bail i’m headed out…. be out there as close to 11 as i can… see you there
Maybe a YouTube video moment… just in case there is any action?
Since I don’t have any night vision recording equipment, you’ll just have to be happy with pictures Alice. LOL
From my blog (which I won’t link to this time):
newru and his buddy met up with me and a couple of my friends at Civitan Park to pull stakes up. I have to say, I was pretty impressed with the lack of staked off area this year. I’m thinking that it has to do with the media coverage and that people didn’t want to chance their stakes / rope being disposed of, but it may just be that newru was out there all day pulling stakes ahead of us!
Thanks to Wendyjo for the tree idea!
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake001.jpg
Decent pile of vampire killers.
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake002.jpg
Stakes, flags and twine from a 200 square foot area.
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake003.jpg
Perfect the pile!
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake004.jpg
Feet, tape, and evidently a light stick rave.
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake005.jpg
Lawn chair wrapped in the blanket it was sitting on.
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake006.jpg
Must have proper tree placement! Who’s the creepy guy in the background?
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake007.jpg
Team effort!
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake008.jpg
Another pile of stakes and string by a garbage can.
http://www.diseasedmedia.com/images/stake/stake009.jpg
So couldn’t make it out there with you marcus but did hit it up… almost did some Parade route like aquatic center and Tauphaus Park but after seeing 9 conpeys and 50 lawn chairs decited to leave it alone to hard to do alone plus being out there after 12:00 don’t want to deal with cops… anyways thanks for the 4th FUN!!
Sad to see that I missed out on the midnight antics, maybe next year? Do like my family has done every year, we looking for someones staked off spot and take it… They come asking, we ask for name tag or the serial numbers off the stakes? They throw fits and leave in the end.. For the record, I hate it when people stake off early, or stake at all. We just take advantage of their greediness….
Part of the reason there were so few staked off areas Marcus is that I saw city employees, cops and rec people, out there numerous times yesterday pulling up stakes. You probably just took out what had been put down after the most recent time they had been through. Nonetheless, good job!
Yes, sir, good show!
I can see most of the fireworks from my back yard and that’s where I’ll be watching from. When do they start?
I’m gonna be the one with the opposite viewpoint and say that I don’t understand why anyone cares so much about it. It doesn’t matter all that much. The greenbelt is plenty large. Many of those who parcel would be all too happy to accommodate those who can’t find a spot. Also, without parceling it would be next to impossible to watch the fireworks without my extended family, and I’m not going to be deprived of that priviledge without having something to say about it. I say let the staking happen. It shouldn’t be a big enough deal to warrant law enforcement and vigilante groups eliminating the stake-outs.
BJ, perhaps you’ve not heard: Approximately 100,000 people will be attending the Melaleuca 4th of July fireworks display. That’s more folks descending upon the greenbelt in Idaho Falls than live in all of Bonneville County.
Should some persons have previously “staked out” claims to public property & see Melaleuca’s free display they better don’t be disappointed or mad when thier lazy claim is removed and another family has moved in to celebrate our Country’s freedom.
BJ the thing is that who is to tell those that you would be accomidating to, when you are not even at your staked out area, that you would be willing to be accomodating?
I have no problem if someone is at the area that is staked out, that way if others need a little room they can ask for it. Thing is, people stake out and leave. It seams equalent to cutting in line at the movie theater when there is a sold out movie playing even though you didn’t bother to stand in line from the begining.
The greenbelt is NOT big enough, otherwise you would have no issue with people saying no to staking things out because of course there would be enough room and no need for the staking areas out. Many people do not attend the fireworks because by the time they are able to get to the greenbelt (right before the show) there is no room for their family, especially in an area that they can actually see the fireworks. And who wants to go if they can only see half of the show because of some tree? Or heavens, none of the show at all.
My suggestion would be that if you have such a large extended family that wants to go together you should go stake out an area and make sure someone is in that area the whole time… why not take shifts?
When we go, we either spend the day with friends that live by the river, or we go very early and make a day of it because it’s the only way to get a good spot (I don’t believe in staking).
After that, it’s a good hour before we get home because of the traffic, so if you happen to be having a busy life for some reason, it’s sometimes just not feasible. Not that I’m complaining, because I’ve made it work when i wanted to bad enough.
I am curious if it wouldn’t help to see if there is another location that would make the whole experience easier to navigate. Someday the fireworks will outgrow this location, it might not hurt to think ahead.
Any ideas?
You can actually see the fireworks from a long ways away. You can see them from the near the airport or there is Freeman Park, or even some of the Elementary Schools that are near downtown. It is definately not required to be ON the greenbelt to be able to see the fireworks.
Thanks, Melaleuca! The fireworks were grrr…8!
Watched them from my backyard, had a straight view, didn’t have to fight stakers or traffic. Great show!
Bless us AMERICA!
Did anyone see the sign at the Civitan Park Shelter: Reserved for Bonneville County Drug Court……now there are two possibilities: 1) The Drug Court paid for the Shelter space, or 2) The Drug Court received special privileges not available to the rest of us? Does anyone know the answer?
If option one is what happened, this seems like a real waste of tax payer dollars…..and I would seriously question how they “arranged” this over demands from other private groups…..like I said, if anyone has details, please share.
The Snake River Green Belt Shelters can be reserved in advance of holidays or other dates of the calendar year. To reserve preferred location contact the department of Parks & Recreation well in advance of your celebration.
Reservation is available on a first come first serve basis. Complaints may be registered with the Mayor.
Thank you for your concern, business and tax dollars.
Ok a final-final on this thread for me.
First, I am sorry I couldn’t make it out for the nightly clean-up festivities, but duty called and I just couldn’t make it.
Second, I was sitting with a large group of friends inside the cloverleaf from Grandview onto I-15 South and, without one word of coaxing or recognition from me, to a person, they are of the firm belief that those of yo uwho DID participate in that project are bonafide heroes!
And finally, I will make every effort (if it is necessary) to join you all next year to do my part to help make Idaho Falls beautiful for EVERYONE who is early to memorial drive NEXT Just 4th!
God bless ya all,
Dennis
Hey – nice job to those who went out! I was equally as disgusted as I drove downt the parade route Friday afternoon and saw many spots staked out with blankets, chairs, and stakes. I don’t care if you do it in front of your home, but it’s unfair in front of businesses, churches, and city property! No wonder we have such a hard time finding good seats for the parade.
Next year, I’m all for a “Citizens against Staking” Friday night activity before the events of the 4th. Beers on me when we’re all done, no matter how late!
So I have to say it was the best time pulling stakes and I will do it next year and extend it to the parade route (of course only on the public parts). I hope to see more people next year. I have to say, is it not a safety issue with the stakes and strings. What is someone trips and falls and lands on the stakes walking or biking who’s falut it is? Who will pay for damages the city or the staker? Im glad “Citizens against Staking” could bring saftey to the public areas for a few hours.
Safe as long as we pull the stakes after the beer, and not before!
Good point on the safety issue!
This is SLC’s ordinance. Seems it would be usefull here.
3.50.240: REGULATIONS FOR PUBLIC PROPERTY ADJACENT TO EVENT ROUTES:
The following shall apply to public property adjoining routes and staging areas for authorized commercially related special events or free expression activities and it shall be unlawful for any person to violate these provisions:
A. Time Restrictions: Before eight o’clock (8:00) P.M. of the day before the authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity, no person shall actually claim or attempt to claim, reserve, occupy or otherwise control public property either in person or by the placement of any object. Prohibited claiming activities include, but are not limited to, the placement of ropes, chairs, blankets, banners or vehicles or barriers of any kind.
B. Reserving Public Space: From and after eight o’clock (8:00) P.M. of the day before an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity, a person may physically occupy a position on public property and may use a blanket, sleeping bag or chair to reserve the position for that person only. No person may reserve a space for anyone other than himself or herself. No person may claim or attempt to reserve any public property for himself or herself or others by placement of ropes, tents, barricades or other barriers.
C. Enclosed Shelters Prohibited: No person shall place, erect, use or employ any tent or other enclosed shelters, including vehicles or trailers, on public property along the route or staging areas of any authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity at any time.
D. Obstruction Of Public Rights Of Way: No person shall obstruct public sidewalks, paved portions of streets, or occupy any unsafe position or occupy a position which may cause damage to public or private property.
E. Vehicle Parking Restrictions: From and after eight o’clock (8:00) P.M. of the day before an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity and continuing until the conclusion of the event, no person shall park a motor vehicle, or trailer or tent trailer on the streets designated by the city as a route for an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity. Only motor vehicles or trailers which are entries or parts thereof in an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity are allowed to be in the areas designated as staging areas. Any vehicle, motor vehicle, trailer or tent trailer parked in violation of this section is a public nuisance and may be towed from the prohibited area at the owner’s expense.
F. Reserved Spectator Viewing Areas: As part of the permit process, the mayor or the mayor’s designee may authorize:
1. The city to reserve places for the observation of an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity and to erect and control seating on such reserved public property; and
2. The permit holder to reserve areas for observation of an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity and to erect and control seating in the reserved areas.
G. Dogs Prohibited: From and after eight o’clock (8:00) P.M. of the night before an authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity all dogs, except for service animals and dogs who are actually part of the authorized commercially related special event or free expression activity, shall be prohibited on public property along the route and staging areas whether or not such dogs are leashed. This subsection shall not prohibit the owners of dogs who live adjacent to the route from taking their leashed dogs on walks to and from their property using the most direct route away from the route. “Service animals” referred to in this subsection shall mean any dog specially trained to accompany the blind, hearing impaired, or persons with visual or other physical disabilities. (Ord. 20-06 § 1, 2006: Ord. 63-96 § 1, 1996: Ord. 23-93 § 4, 1993
More laws just confuse things. That’s a horrible idea.
I don’t know, as Idaho Falls gets more and more press about the fireworks, problems increase and we may need a future ordinance to control the staking idiots who think it’s OK. The city wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel either if they cut and pasted from this one. Good info comment #60.
The reason we need this kind of ordinance is so that the parks and rec. and the police have something, (a law”, sorry Marcus) to back them up when disputes arise. As it is now, they can state their desire that no one stake out private places on public property but there is no legal support for their requests.
We don’t need it. We have fists.
Really Marcus?
How old are you?
“We don’t need it. We have fists.”
That’s exactly why we need laws to stop abuse and prevent idiots from assaulting abusers.
Why would I assault some idiot for staking an area off? I’m talking self defense lady.
I figured Marcus was joking in Comment #64. He doesn’t get enough credit for his sense of humor. Whether a person enjoys it or not, they should still recognize when he’s joking. (Having said that, Marcus, I hope I understood it correctly.)
On second thought, never mind. I read it wrong, my mistake. He’s serious, and I agree that if someone assaulted him over pulling up stakes, he has the right to defend himself. My error, Marcus, sorry.
Eh, I’m half serious. I don’t think it’s enough of a problem to be written in the law books, and I certainly wouldn’t be going down there looking for a fight.
It falls under the common sense category, and in my opinion, laws aren’t required in that one. Those without it will self destruct whether it’s in the law book or not.