@Joe Eagle — I have been fighting with this issue for a long time, and it helps me to cope by participating in this discussion with others. It may be too much to ask for you to post a 3rd article on marijuana legalization. If so, I understand. I won’t be offended if you don’t post it. But if you believe it is worth posting here, I would be most grateful if you did. Thanks!
I wanted to tell you about my recent loss. My father Richard Thompson recently died from GLIOBLASTOMAS brain cancer. He was diagnosed in September, and he died in December of last year.
I was fortunate to have spent a lot of time with him before he died. He had other health problems and I was able to fly out to Utah several times from Tacoma Wa.
My father got very sick, very fast. He had smoked for 43 years of his 66 years. So he had lung complications, and other related issues. He finally quit smoking 2 years before he died, but it was too late.
Up until he was 55, he was the absolute strongest man that I knew. His small frame gave no clue to the strength in this man.
My dad was on the city planning commissions throughout his life, and gave his time and thoughts cheerfully to all that knew him, including neighbors.
During the end of his life I wanted nothing more than to save my father. I had looked at treatments of all varieties including viral treatments. (see this video). He was disqualified for the viral treatment because he had already started radiation and chemotherapy. Apparently according to a coversation that my mom had with the research firm, if the chemo and radiation come first, the treatment is non-effective.
All of this time I was running xCannabis and I had been making activist videos for marijuana law reform, and I started coming up with research that had focused on certain cannabinoids from the marijuana/cannabis plant on cancer. Here is a list of those vidoes:
- Herbal Treatment could be the cure for cancer @ YouTube
- Cannabinoid System in Neuroprotection Raphael Mechoulam PhD study.
- THC effects on brain cancer vs. normal brain cells
It became obvious to me that cannabis could very likely cure my father, and at least posssibly extend his life and give him a better quality of life. He barely missed my 2nd baby being born! Another 4 month or so is all I was realisticly hoping for, but no such blessing came.
I made several video commentaries on this research while I was struggling with my father’s condition and his passing. Here are a few of them.
- Stoned Ryan speaks about Harvard research done by Anju Preat
(also see this article @ CBS)- xCannabis’s Ryan on the topic of Utah vs. Cannabis
- Cancer update during Christmas a few weeks before my dad died
My dad had just recently rejoined the LDS church, and then worked towards the goal of being a “Temple Mormon” or a Mormon who makes personal oaths to their faith and receive special blessings, and then afterwards they wear special underwear to remind them of these oaths.
When you are at that level of Mormonism, you must follow what Mormon’s call “The Word of Wisdom”, which is made up of changing laws on what to eat and not eat, what to drink and not drink. Currently they have a doctrine that you can’t drink caffeinated drinks (except hot chocolate seems to be acceptable). At one time a person could not drink ANY caffeinated beverages. But that changed when it was revealed that the LDS church owned major stock in CocaCola, so soda pop is now widely accepted in the LDS church.
Along with this law on beverages, there are also laws about alcohol, tobacco, illicit drugs, etc…This caused a problem for my mission to cure my dad. He was very dedicated to his faith, and apparently would rather die than break their covenants. So marijuana was out of the question, even though marijuana is widely used to treat the horrible side effects of chemotherapy and radiation, including pain, nausea stress, anxiety and depression. Another issue that I know for a fact it helps with, is headaches because I was a patient of cluster headaches who legally used marijuana in Washington state, as recommended by a doctor. At this time, my dad’s head was swelling from the tumor and created major headaches for him, and the treatments that he was on were causing him pain, nausea, depression, anxiety, etc..
Cannabis could have certainly improved my father’s quality of life and may possibly have extended his life.
I have been a little depressed over losing the man that I loved so dearly. He was friend and my hero. I dedicate this video to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGSsZKa5yxk
He inspires me to get marijuana legalized, so patients no longer have to suffer!
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{ 84 comments… read them below or add one }
While interesting – only Dr. Mechoulam’s materials have any quantity of credibility, and I’d like to see some U.S. peer review before i give it any credence at this point.
Additionally, I fear this will just fuel the “MJ – it’s OK!” kids, when it appears Dr. Mechoulam was working with far more low levels of MJ/THC than you’d see in a user after your average consumption.
@Rural Lawyer, I think that the fuel for kids will run out when marijuana is legalized, because marijuana will then be regulated, and less easy to attain. When someone needs to present or even have their ID scanned when they are buying controlled substances, that adds a higher degree of accountability for all involved (the buyer and the buyee). Both are breaking the law, but the adult with the ID becomes far more accountable now.
Legalizing marijuana would put the cartels out of business by dropping the market value, and raising taxes from it like with alcohol.
As of right now, according to many national studies, ( http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/106/casastudy.shtml ), marijuana is easier to get than alcohol for our teens.
In a regulated market, like tobacco and alochol, teen usage will go down, as they have found in Europe.
I have children, and I want all mind altering substances to be out of the reach of my children, until they are of a suitable age, an age that offers a mature attitude and mature experiences for our kids to weigh the consequences. I am not talking about anything lighter than is currently offered on the market as a legal recreational drug. Between 18 and 21.
However, I know that marijuana kills less people than alcohol, or tobacco. Not only by means of overdose, but also by car accidents.. So more kids use marijuana than alcohol, and less kids die from marijuana than alcohol.
The numbers make sense for legalization as far as I am concerned.
Sincerely,
Ryan Thompson
P.S. If you are looking for some truth on the subject in way of numbers let me recommend you to safer. They have references and information there that I believe are very credible.
http://www.safercolorado.org/safer-doc
Interesting how Slu’s new post regarding cancer turned into a new springboard for his other two posts. Again he posts the same comments he’s posted a dozen times in the other two topics, with nothing to do with cancer or reply to Rural Lawyers comment. Incredible! You just can’t stand having your pot campaign on the back burner can you Slu?
I would like to suggest to everyone who is tired of this topic taking over our community blog to please email Joe at idahofallstoday@gmail.com
The same thing happened with Crystal last year and Joe said the reason he let it go on for so long is because nobody contacted him to complain.
Lets take our site back!
What do you mean “take our site back”? It’s not your site and slu2 has as much right to post as anyone else. You are still free to post whatever you want too. Why are you being such a hater? You don’t have to comment if you don’t have anything constructive to say.
I was here in the early days of this website I can definitely say that there have been plenty of posters show up here who ran off more people than slu2 has. He has been more polite than most people here.
I’m bewildered 2647. Your no different then I am. All of the comments you’ve posted have been criticizing other posters. Huh. Nothing else to contribute there buddy?
Your right though, this isn’t my site its our site. The community. Which is why I said our and not mine. Many other posters have left comments regarding the nonstop campaign slu has fostered on this site and all we’ve asked is stop the redundancy. He’s done it again with this post that was disguised as a new topic, but as soon as someone left a comment he went back to the same campaign he’s waged from the beginning. I like Slu and his tenacity, but his repeatativeness has gotten old and it’s clearly affected the site regulars as well as newcomers, because they haven’t been around as much. The advertising Joe is paying for resulted in a huge influx of new visitors in the beginning, and even that has dropped off and one has to think it’s due to the constant barrage of dope propaganda that has deluged the site lately.
All I’m doing is stating my opinion like anyone else. You can choose to read it, agree with it, respond to it or not. You won’t hurt my feelings either way.
Good day sir.
Slu2 advances some reasonable arguments – neither I nor anyone else has to either read or agree with them. This is a community forum, and open dialogue in our community is what is important.
As long as the speaker is respectful, there is no reason to self-censor ourselves. The free-market exchange of ideas is important in a democracy.
Based upon my own experiences, I don’t believe alcohol is any harder to acquire than MJ for our children. I also agree with Slu2 that neither alcohol or MJ are suitable substances for our children to be consuming. I disagree, but reserve the right to be persuaded on whether MJ has any legitimate use. I would also note I’m of the opinion that alcohol has very little culturally advancing purposes – despite its legality. I’ve seen the effect it has had on families too often – even without adding in the damage caused by drunken driving.
“I’ve seen the effect it has had on families too often”
-Like legal problems?
I have no problem with Slu, the issue or topic itself but with the fact that he’s repeated the same comments over and over and over. Thats the redundancy I speak of. That and the fact that he posted what seemed like a new article only to be a diguise for the same topic and same comments he’s posted on his previous two posts in order to get the issue back on the front page.
Guest in Comment #3 makes a valid point.
I suggest though, that if we want to round-out the subjects and get more variation, we should post more articles.
Anyone can post a new article, I have one pending, and I read in the chat box that someone else has posted 2 more, and I’m sure they will be available soon.
I’m not a censor, and I am behind your cause, slu, but you are overdoing it a bit, IMO. Let’s not make the mods create a rule regarding how many times you can post an article on the same subject or how many times a person can reply in a row. That is exactly why we have so many laws on the books in this country, because people tend to go just one…little…inch…too…far.
But that’s just my humble opinion
Yes Base –
Too many legal problems, divorce, domestic battery, restraining orders from your neighbors or employers – all too often, have at least a contributing cause in the form of abuse of alcohol or other substances..
“Talking/thinking under the influence” is just as deadly to one’s personal relationships, whether business or family, as getting behind the wheel can be..
“Again he posts the same comments he’s posted a dozen times in the other two topics, with nothing to do with cancer or reply to Rural Lawyers comment”
@Guest: I’ve given all new information in this post, I haven’t recycled anything. Your empty statement bares no evidence of your claim.
“with nothing to do with cancer or reply to Rural Lawyers comment.”
@Guest: I posted everything I have for cancer in my first post. I answered Rural Lawyer’s statement and question about legalization (which if you read in post #1, legalization is the very first thing that I address)
“You just can’t stand having your pot campaign on the back burner can you Slu?”
I can’t emphasize enough I suppose. This is very important to me as a medical marijuana patient. It is very important to the million or so locked up for a victimless crime. And very important to the 77 Billion dollars per year that could be fueling our economy DIRECTLY from legalization. I am not ashamed, or shy to talk about this, regardless of the resistance I get.
Like you have been told by myself, and others. If you don’t like the conversation, post something that you do like to talk about. No one is holding a gun to your head here. Don’t always play the victim, it’s not pretty.
“He’s done it again with this post that was disguised as a new topic, but as soon as someone left a comment he went back to the same campaign he’s waged from the beginning.”
It’s all relative, but lets just look at the facts.
1. We have the cure for cancer, and yet it is a schedule 1 drug? ! I haven’t spoke about that before. And even though it’s relative, it is an entirely new topic. The cure for cancer is very dear to me, because I have lost two close family member to cancer.
2. Rural Lawyer received the answer that he asked for. I didn’t bait and switch. If he/she would have asked about cancer, I would have addressed that question (if I was able to).
Rural Lawyer’s first statement about wanted to see peer review was already addressed in post one. I have given just about all of the research that I have found on the topic in post one. I had nothing to add to his first statement.
But this statement is what I responded to:
“Additionally, I fear this will just fuel the “MJ – it’s OK!” kids”
And my thought on this, is that I don’t want any of my kids using any mind altering substances until they are mature to make that decision themselves. This includes not just illegal substances, but also legal substances.
But out of all recreational substances, it is a FACT, pure and simple, that marijuana is the safest of them all, including caffeine.
So if I were to weigh the thought of “alcohol being ok” vs. “marijuana being ok”. It’s simple. Alcohol kills 10’s of thousands of people. Marijuana kills no one.
Take that as part of my campaign Guest, because you’re right, it is.
If you don’t like it, create a topic that you do like.
The one thing that I did recycle, and it was a point that was relevant to Rural Laywer’s statement:
““Additionally, I fear this will just fuel the “MJ – it’s OK!” kids””
Is that when you tax and regulate marijuana, it can be safely distributed from a liquor store environment, and it will get a lot of the substance out of the hands of children (like it does with alcohol and tobacco).. Marijuana is easier for kids to get than alcohol, because alcohol is a controlled substance, in a regulated market. Marijuana is not, making it more profitable for pushers to sell to my kids.
Once we legalize marijuana, the black market for marijuana goes away.
“Slu2 advances some reasonable arguments – neither I nor anyone else has to either read or agree with them. This is a community forum, and open dialogue in our community is what is important.
As long as the speaker is respectful, there is no reason to self-censor ourselves. The free-market exchange of ideas is important in a democracy. ”
@Rural Lawyer. Thanks for this. Someone who cares about democracy and free speech. I like the statement about “As long as the speaker is respectful, there is no reason to self-censor ourselves.” Right on!
“I disagree, but reserve the right to be persuaded on whether MJ has any legitimate use.”
@Rural Lawyer: So far 13 states, and several physician groups, and many countries around the world including Canada, believe that marijuana does in fact have legitimate use.
Not only is marijuana an effective medicine, but it is the safest recreational substance known to man. These are facts, and I would be happy to fill in the blanks if you have any questions.
Thanks for your responses!
“I’m not a censor, and I am behind your cause, slu, but you are overdoing it a bit, IMO. ”
For a subject that is so important, I honestly don’t think it’s getting enough attention.
But when I check out the news on this topic, I can watch CNN or CNBC for a few hours and I can see the topic of marijuana come up several time in that stretch. Are the news companies overdoing it? What about the series “Marijuana Inc”? Or the 100’s of marijuana stories coming out every day in the news??
I didn’t even mentioned the Global Marijuana march that happened on May 2nd. That even was bigger than the Tax Day events, AND the 420 events. Yet this is the first time I’ve mentioned it. Look it up, it was HUGE!
I just don’t have the time to cover all of these topics. So I cover the topics that are dearest to me.
BTW- I got another article in the Idaho State Journal on April 29th. I’ll share it later. Peace!
I don’t know about the cure for cancer but I have seen it help cancer patients through their final days.
I disagree Rural. Maybe a drug can make problems worse, but you can’t blame it for creating problems. That’s comparable to me saying that lawyers cause problems for people. We know that’s not the way things work.
Simple logic.
Wow, way to prove my point, thanks!
Touché, Base..
That is true, the problem likely existed before – I’ve seen plenty of ‘non-alcohol’ fueled domestic battery cases, but substance abuse certainly doesn’t help the situation – often blowing up a very minor disagreement into a physical situation requiring law enforcement intervention.
Additionally, I’m fairly confident that the literature supports that substance abuse leads to dependency and to addiction – not in every case, but in all too many, the key being an individual’s tolerance for the drug (which occurs in prescription drug therapies too.)
I agree that prohibition doesn’t work – we have the 1920s and the current ‘war on drugs’ as evidence it doesn’t work – but I don’t think that means simply decriminalizing MJ is going to help matters – MJ trafficking rarely turns violent already – before opium was criminalized, statistically significant segments of American society turned to it for either relief from physical pain, or relief from life. I don’t pretend to have the answers, but I haven’t been pursuaded that ‘legalization’ even for medical use – is the correct answer..
I don’t know how many of you have literally watched a loved one die but I am big supporter of end of life marijuana use for terminally ill patients. I have never seen pain like the pain in the eyes of a person in their final days. If a dying man wants to sit in his easy chair and toke it up until everything goes black then more power to him.
On another note, “A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.” I don’t think anyone would do something high/drunk (whatever) that they wouldn’t do any other day. In the case that someone is dumb enough to drive while high I will enjoy watching lines of cars sitting at stop signs waiting for them to turn green.
Maybe if society forced you to take responsibility for your actions instead of sentencing law breakers to glorified babysitting we would be able to reduce our crime rates.
Also–Kind of off topic but interesting…If the staffers at the UN can abuse drugs without any consequence, why not everyone else? What’s with this double standard that we put up with?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518345,00.html
I’ve not yet heard a good argument in support of prohibition.
What has prohibition done that is good for our nation?
The only thing that I can see that it has done, and even though many believe this is a good thing, I don’t. Prohibition has only fueled the criminal justice system, and increased it’s size significantly.
On the opposite side of that, the criminal justice system has ruined many lives.
Has an argument in favor of prohibition even been presented here?
“Additionally, I’m fairly confident that the literature supports that substance abuse leads to dependency and to addiction”
I’ve posted information on this. See post #3. Caffeine is more addictive than marijuana.
Sorry, “post 3″ actually means “Comment # 2″…..
@Slu2 – However caffeine has less actual impairment potential than MJ. While caffeine withdrawal makes one irritable, I’ve never heard of someone being ‘hopped up’ on caffeine or hurting themselves or others.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-symptoms-of-caffeine-withdrawal.htm
Again, what is the argument? That you are against marijuana because it hurts more people than caffeine?
In truth, caffeine is way more of a health risk, and kills far more people. Which comes down to the common good and harm reduction. Prohibiting caffeine would be just as silly as prohibition marijuana. People would use it anyway, and the prohibition would be the greater harm, by ruining people’s lives.
If you want reports on actual marijuana related deaths, including suspected as a secondary cause of death, then check out what the FDA and the CDC say about that.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=000145
You can see this chart:
http://www.saferchoice.org/images/SAFER/comparingdangers.png
and this research:
http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/
That shows even though marijuana causes less impairment related deaths, and absolutely no overdose related deaths, and the addiction and harm levels are way lower than the other drugs (including caffeine), it is classified as a greater threat.
Marijuana as a schedule 1 drug means it’s more dangerous than alcohol, cocaine, heroin, and 1000’s of other substances.
When in truth caffeine is a greater threat to society than marijuana is.
That is the bottom line.
whatever happened to the whole cannabis curing cancer topic? Guess I nailed it in my earlier comment. .
“Guess I nailed it in my earlier comment. .”
I’ve said everything that I had to say about Cannabis curing cancer in post one. Im just responding to statements and questions now. Got one, or are you just being ‘helpful’?
I am wondering if “cure” was the wrong word to use. Maybe that’s a little extreme? I am not sure that smoking weed can “cure” anything but I am sure it can help one cope with chronic pain.
@Slu2 – please don’t troll – it’s unbecoming in a gentlemanly discussion. We may have to agree to disagree here.
I have invited you to persuade me as to the value of legalization, and you have yet to do that.
Citing to FDA studies isn’t very convincing – especially given the FDA’s track record on protecting society. I wouldn’t object to moving MJ to schedule II – it is no more dangerous than Cocaine or Methamphetamine, two other schedule II drugs. There are no medical uses for either coke or meth, so I don’t know how that would help your legalization campaign, and likely increase the penalties, at least in Idaho – possession of a schedule II drug w/o prescription is a felony, where MJ is a misdemeanor, and unlawful delivery of a schedule II carries a potential of life in prison, and delivery of MJ is a max of 5 years. That appears to be a step backward to your goals. Your own source indicates the FDA couldn’t provide for the accuracy of their own data with the disclaimer of “The information contained in the reports has not been scientifically or otherwise verified.” That doesn’t help you much – citing to raw data, that the source itself disclaims as unverified is really weak – I’d be laughed out of court if I tried that.
The comparison chart, w/o any supporting documentation of what study those results came from really weakens your argument. 3x as intoxicating as caffeine? 50% as intoxicating as alcohol? How was intoxication or impairment defined? What factors, reaction speed, judgment, or something else were impacted to cause impairment? The chart is meaningless without those reference points.
I’ve experienced the intoxication of both alcohol and MJ – and 2 ‘hits’ of MJ left me more impaired and uninhibited for HOURS longer than consuming a 6-pack in 60 minutes did. Perhaps I had an anomalous reaction, and most of society wouldn’t experience that great of an effect, but I can see the unregulated effect of caffeine on our society TODAY, and remain completely unconvinced that caffeine is more dangerous, or as you put it, “a greater threat to our society” than MJ.
Mr./Ms. Guest is correct, we have drifted a long way from the possible anti-cancer effects of MJ, which I stated need more work, to a pro/anti-MJ discussion.
I’m sorry, Slu2, but you have failed to persuade me.
Frankly, Base made a better argument right there with two words ‘cope’ and ‘pain’ – if MJ can ease the sufferers of chronic or terminal pain? Why not use it – I watched my grandmother in her delirium beg to be ‘let go’ – and had no help to give her.
Would I recommend/support it for other purposes? I remain unconvinced of those uses. Is MJ better than the ‘placebo effect’ for chronic sufferers? I don’t know. But even the placebo effect has utility.
Thank you Rural.
Rural Lawyer, I may not have convinced you that MJ should be legal. Really, the information is how there, and I provided sources that I have found.
However, you haven’t convinced me that marijuana should be any more illegal than caffeine, as caffeine is proven to be far more dangerous than marijuana.
We can leave it at that, or you could prove to me why MJ should be illegal.
Base: This doctor talks about cannabis being the cure for cancer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n31Nuj_AvTg&feature=related
And this is a good follow up video on how cannabis cures the cancer that my father died from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHWuD8a3INs&feature=related
“The comparison chart, w/o any supporting documentation of what study those results came from really weakens your argument.”
If you read the article, both the CDC (Center for Disease Control) and the FDA are the references. And there are links to the studies that came out of these groups. Read again.
BTW- You never explained how it “weakened your argument”. I looked at the chart again. And I look at the death tolls. Caffeine still kills more people than marijuana.
What do you think the reason is for not doing the research and publishing the information? It seems like it’s pretty underground with limited to no coverage. Is there some motive there? Why would legalizing marijuana be such a touchy subject if there are benefits to it?
Lobbyists.
If you look at research by Canada, Australia and several European countries, they do the research and it is not invalidated by the government.
In the USA, the government tries to invalidate anything positive about marijuana.
If you watch historical videos like “reefer madness” and other propaganda that the government put out in the 30’s, you’ll see that they originally started with complete and utter lies to give marijuana a bad name. Due to a tree industry billionaire, who didn’t want to compete with hemp.
This is part #3 of this documentary that features Woody Harrelson “Grass, A marijuana history” as the narrator, this is where you can start seeing some of these propaganda films.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-llyWm2vss
I suggest watching all parts of this video. But I just wanted you to see where all of this “reefer madness” came from.
Thanks for the constructive question!
Slu2 – I can find no reference to caffeine except in the chart, and I can find no references to how that data the chart was built from, how they categorized their input, and defined terms such as ‘intoxication’ your cited sources – even in the cites you quote from, use gov’t data, and rebut it with “it ain’t so” posts, again, without citing to published studies… this makes your argument look poorly developed.
Imagine you’re a candidate advocating a change in the MJ law, either through the referendum process or something. You have to convince me, a (moderately) well-educated individual that this benefits me or my society to come out and vote/sign your petition.
My addiction to caffeine is perfectly legal – if i give my 4yr old a Mt.dew, only a few people will raise an eyebrow. If I give my kid a hit – you better bet I’ll end up in jail. The burden of persuasion is clearly on you – I have to do NOTHING in order to continue in indulging in my addiction.
You started this thread saying if MJ was legal – your dad might still be alive – maybe. If alcohol would have cured him, would he have consumed it? Against his church’s belief system?
I feel for your loss – I lost my father as a pre-teen. But as an advocate of change – you aren’t doing your cause justice by citing to self-promoting web-sites that can’t back up their statements except by citing to other self-promoting web-sites. A flawed argument is not improved by repetition, it just becomes repetitious.
The crack v powerded cocaine sentencing change advocates worked years to bring solid evidence and sway enough judges to overturn the US Congress’ laws – if you want to change society – you’re going to have to bring better evidence, better arguments, and refrain from taking discussions personally, are you an advocate for an enlightened, rational change or just trying to justify your personal lifestyle to the rest of us?
I don’t care what you do to yourself, I do care what my kid does to herself, and I won’t support a change in the laws without a very good reason, and I have yet to see it. I’m sorry Slu2, but I remain unconvinced that your position is correct, and I’ll leave it at that.
I’m sure you will post again – just to feel like you’ve had the last word in this thread. I’m okay with that.
Good comment RuralLawyer. I couldn’t agree more.
“Slu2 – I can find no reference to caffeine except in the chart”
I’ve posted other references on this blog before. I realize that you don’t like me reposting information. But once again you’ve overlooked some very valuable data that I have posted about caffeine from other reliable sources.
“ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS
TOBACCO – 400,000
ALCOHOL – 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS-20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS except for MARIJUANA – 15,000
CAFFEINE – 2,000
ASPIRIN – 500
MARIJUANA – 0
Source: United States government…
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics”
And here is another source with similar data:
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
As for convincing you. At least make an effort. I can’t make up your mind for you, I can just give you the data.
As for giving a kid a hit. I am for legalizing and regulating the adult usage of marijuana.
If what I’ve given you so far hasn’t convinced you, then your mind is either made up, or I haven’t made a very good argument for my cause.
But for me the following (all facts that I have documented) would benefit our society by ending prohibition. And we can know that this will work, because we saw it work in the 30’s with ending alcohol prohibition.
1. Taxing marijuana will benefit our country a conservative 77 Billion a year, both in savings from not having to criminalize, and around 40 Billion dollars in taxes.
2. Like in the 30’s it will end the black market, and put the black market dealers and cartels out of business.
3. It will put the substance into a regulated environment like a liquor store where cameras and ID are required to get the substance. (thus reducing the availability to children).
4. It will stop ruining lives. 20 million people have been arrested for marijuana in the last 40 years, and that has cost the tax payers of this country a fortune, and ruined a lot of the possessors of this plant, with a ruined life even at very young ages.
5. This works in Canada, Australia, Denver, Co, and a hand full of European countries.
In places like Amsterdam, crime as a whole went down, when they decriminalized because it hurt the black market so badly.
Prohibition = the black market
The black market = black market crimes and lifestyles
Black market crime = violence, death, and a serious of other injustices
Ending prohibition ends the black market.
I do not respect prohibition, because it is directly responsible for the black market. Those who support prohibition also support the black market.
BTW- You’ve said negative things about the references that I’ve cited.
1. Whats wrong with the CDC (Center for Disease Control) information?
2. Whats wrong with: National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics”
3. How about this doctor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n31Nuj_AvTg&feature=related ?
4. Or this doctor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0CAmiv5wyA
5. Or the other half dozen credible references that I have used.
I have given a lot of references, and you have vaguely dismissed them. I just wanted to know if you believe there is truly something wrong with these references, and if so what specifically?
You don’t have to prove marijuana should be legal. But when you tell me that my information isn’t credible, you ought to back that statement up a bit.
And if you are against marijuana legalization.. Why? Specifically, why?
I followed up with posting all of the videos that I made in response to this blog at:
http://xcannabis.com/2009/05/bloggers-ask-for-the-numbers-on-marijuana-prohibition/
I have added one more also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwEDy1dnEp8
Yeah, the US government knows that marijuana is good, useful and SAFE. There is NO DOUBT!
http://digitaljournal.com/article/257008
Check out US Patent 6630507 titled “Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants”
Can check this out, Montel Williams interviews on of the medical marijuana patients of the Federal Government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ncXkusB3Q
Slu2 –
Read your comments, and watched the vids. Still not finding Caffeine listed as a death cause so – either I’m not finding it or it’s not there.
I would note, however, the patent is very interesting – that’s the kind of information I’ve been waiting for – some articles, not from the MJ fan base that actually uses scientific method and has re-creatable experiments/studies to arrive at their data – i haven’t had time as yet to follow up any of the cited research in the patent – but that’s the kind of info I’m looking for.
We may never agree – that’s okay – universal agreement isn’t required, respect for each other’s opinions, and the right to hold them is.
If we (as Idahoans) were presented with a medical marijuana vote today, how would everyone vote? What about recreational under an ounce?
@Rural Lawyer, comment #39,
Source: United States government…
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics”
Caffeine kills 2000 people per year. Marijana kills 0.
Last time.
@Base. I think with all of the new waves of support from around the nation for marijuana legalization. I have no doubt that Medical Marijuana would pass in Idaho. With 4 of our neighbors already feeling the same way, it’s very likely.
Recreational possession, I doubt it, for now.
Don’t be so sure that would pass. You never know when the currently-quiet will come out of the woodwork. Not everyone is as vocal with their opinions as people on web conversation boards
I would be surprised if it didn’t pass. But one thing I am sure, that most of the people who would vote in favor of it, wouldn’t fess up to it to most family and friends.
I’ll be doing a regular talk show via ustream.tv every saturday. It will be interesting if we get any callers and conversations going.
After seeing the landside win of marijuana legalization in Denver, and seeing it in Hailey Idaho. Plus seeing that four neighbors on Idaho’s border have legalized medical marijuana….. It’s just a sneaking suspicion… But I think there is good reason to believe it will pass. This year isn’t the year for a bill, but I think next year we’ll be good to go.
No offence, but I’m tired of hearing about cannabis.
+1
I think it’s bullshit that a newbie can hijack a local blog and use it for his own personal dope campaign.
But thats just me. It’s not my site so whatever, carry
on.
STFU
Opps, I meant. I think that the only thing that has been attempted to be hijacked is Joe’s job on this message board.
These topics aren’t demanding your attention. Move on, or ask Joe for an official “blog police” job.
When I asked Joe to publish this, I made it very clear that it wouldn’t offend me if he didn’t post it.
And again, there is NO reason why your two sense is needed in this post.
Carry on.
Wow… I’m not even going to say how that one made you look. Personal attacks never are appealing, in fact usually they are off putting.
And didn’t you mean “two cents”. LOL
I guess that’s your brain on pot though. Good luck with that.
Did you get that job as message board police yet?
@April.. Do you have ANYTHING constructive to add to this conversation?
If you keep picking at it, it will never heal. Ignore it and it will go away.
I’m with you, April, kinda tired of it.
Now I’m going to go back to ignoring it…
Let me lead by example (BTW- @ April -Nothing ‘personal’ was attacked April. I was just venting about how people have nothing better to do than complain about my posts, when it would just be easier to move on, if they don’t like the content)
My grandmother June, lived a very active life. At age 65 she was still hunting and tagging deer. I was only 5 years old when she tagged the last dear. She had a wonderful garden that she tended to daily with my grandfather, she preserved her own food, cooked the most wonderful meals, and enjoyed life very much.
This fulfilling lifestyle continued even during her cancer treatments. Before I can even remember, she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and had one breast removed at age 60ish.
When she was around age 66 they found that the cancer had spread to the other breast, and she was treated for that, and they finally removed that breast too.
My grandma had never smoked, never drank, never done anything to cause her self this misery. She had the healthiest lifestyle that I knew anyone to live.
On top of that, for what it’s worth, she was a temple Mormon and adhered to her faith very closely.
I was 13 when grandma finally died. I watched her struggle with cancer, with the radiation and the poisons that they gave her to treat this cancer. When she finally died, I was devastated to have lost a dear friend and loved one.
Nearly 20 years later, I watched my dad suffer through the same trials, only faster and more intense. I watched him suffered from hunger, not being able to eat. I watched his body wither up, as he went from being 200lbs, to being 140lbs within three months. I watched the pain and disorientation that he would have after his cancer treatments.
And I think of how absolutely asinine it is that the best cure for these symptoms is illegal, even for medicinal usage.
It is well known that cannabis helps with appetite, with nausea, with pain, and with depression. There is no doubt to just about any medical scientist of these facts.
It is also well know that cannabis can not kill you.
But what is most startling to me, and the reason why I fight so hard for this cause, is there is now significant research to show that cannabis cures many types of cancer, including brain cancer, and breast cancer.
These are the references to credible studies that have been done on this matter.
Breast Cancer:
http://www.cpmc.org/professionals/research/programs/science/sean.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312132,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/19/AR2007111900834.html
Brain Cancer:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3561686.stm
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/12088.php
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=marijuana-extract-fights
I realize that people don’t want to hear about cannabis anymore. But my request to you is, either add constructive conversation to the topics given. Or avoid them, if you don’t like the topic, or the conversation.
I hear a few select people whining about how they don’t want to hear about marijuana anymore.
If you don’t want to hear about marijuana anymore, what good does it do, to come here and irritate the conversation?
Here are some suggestions if you don’t want to read or hear about marijuana anymore.
Turn off your computer, turn off your tv, and avoid going into public, because someone may be out there protesting.
Enough? Probably not. Im sure a few people have some more whining to do.
For those that want to talk constructively about this conversation. Im here for ya.
Peace!
# Guest_1542 posted this in the chat. I want to keep this link on this conversation, because it’s a damn good song, and it applies to many of you agitators.
LOL
“Mind your own business”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckied5fDnC4
Talk about too much personal information.
http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2007/03/14/into-the-woods-of-anonymous-speech/#comment-31631
“STFU” isn’t a personal attaack? I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who wouldn’t react as though it was when it is stated to them. Just a though.
Constructive Criticism = Useing vile language towards others really doesn’t improve most people’s impression of anyone.
I haven’t EVER said anything negative about your topic besides the fact that I’m tired of seeing it.
I too have a right to my opinion, I was not attacking your right to yours, just saying you could put it acrossed in a more appealing way aka not attacking others for simply disagreeing. Use logic to derail them, and if that doesn’t work then figure that they are a lost cause cause they aren’t going to be convinced and drop it.
STFU? Im sure that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. However, I didn’t direct my statement, did I? I just vented.
There was nother personal about those four letters, and I certainly wasn’t directing any of that at you.
However I do think it would be a more productive use of time if people stopped whining soo much.
If you don’t like reading about a topic. MOVE ON people. There are plenty of other topics out there that you can grace with your wonderful insight.
I suggest you take your own advice about the whining Slu. Look at every other comment you post. It’s complaining about other posters. People have every right to disagree and complain about a topic being shoved down their throats the same way you have a right to post 1200 links about the same thing or constantly post 7 comments in a row due to your ADD problem. A thought for you to ponder.
Please don’t get offended, I’m just talking.
I call my comments, constructive, and I give advice. I figure if people don’t truly realize that the don’t HAVE to read my topic, then maybe they won’t complain having HAVING to, or getting “shoved down their throat”. Playing the victim doesn’t help you avoid reading about this topic.
And has anyone read the comment guidelines?
1. Please stay polite and on topic.
2. Your email will never be published.
3. No profanity or euphemisms for profanity.
4. No personal attacks, name-calls, put-downs, or baiting other guests, races, genders, or religions.
5. Express opinions, facts, logic, and reasoning; just don’t argue for argument’s sake.
6. No commercial links (unless absolutely relevant to the discussion) and no religious proselytizing.
7. No religious discussions (for or against). Go to http://religion.idahofallstoday.com for religious discussions.
8. Use the “I” word as much as possible to demonstrate responsibility.
9. Limit yourself to using one name per thread to demonstrate responsibility.
10. If you think a comment is inappropriate, ask Joe to review it.
I don’t think ANY of the anonymous flamers read those 10 suggestion??
On the other hand. Law reform is coming to Idaho!!
http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A323768
http://xcannabis.com/2009/05/idaho-to-legalize/
Thats the pot callin the kettle black. Go back and read some of the comments you left on this site and you’ll notice that you’ve broken at least half of the comment guidelines listed. Nobody is playing a victim here but you.
#3 No profanity or euphemisms for profanity.
I think that includes abreviations and acronyms too. I only know of one commonly used term for those letters and at least the fourth letter is profane. If it wasn’t directed at the people who commented on this post then maybe it should have stayed off of the comment area of this post? Just a thought again. I know I sometimes talk to my computer in such ways when people are being arrogent/idiotic/buttheaded, though I know that by typing and posting those things I would only succeed in pissing people off and making the situation worse, so I refrain.
Well, out of all of the comments that you or crabman have left, non of them had anything to do with the topic, none were constructive, and all were just a bunch of whining. You contributed how many post relevant to cannabis being the cure for cancer? 0
As for you April. First you are assuming what those four letters meant, and you area also assuming whatever they meant were directed at you. Apple Jack (also someone who has contributed 0 comments about the topic at hand) came here cussing at me/about me, whatever.
When I typed STFU, Apple Jack is who I had in mind.
But if you don’t have anything to contribute to this topic, why in the heck are you here?
Or should I say “If you don’t have anything to contribute, why the FRICK are you here?”
Something I picked up from my missionary friend. All of the fricken cry babies talking about how they are forced to read my topics.
Pick a different topic, or start your own.
What definition are you looking at Ryan?
con?trib?ute
–verb (used with object)
1. to give (money, time, knowledge, assistance, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc., as for charitable purposes.
2. to furnish (an original written work, drawing, etc.) for publication: to contribute stories to a magazine.
–verb (used without object)
3. to give (money, food, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc.: He contributes to many charities.
4. to furnish works for publication: He contributed to many magazines.
—Idiom
5. contribute to, to be an important factor in; help to cause: A sudden downpour contributed to the traffic jam.
Positive and negative, it’s contribution. Yes, that means we have to deal with what we see as negative as well, which for me at least is the continuation of this stupid topic.
Take the risk, smoke your shit, fight for it…but know at the same time that displaying your blind zeal for weed legalization on this blog accentuates your overall idiocy.
You’re fighting for legalization of a mind altering substance. In the greater scope of things, it would make far more sense to fight for overall rights of the individual and upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. You have tunnel vision, you’re narrow minded, and no matter how many sources you post up your credibility is slashed because all you give a shit about is your right to get high.
Go get high, you’re obviously doing it! You (to my knowledge) haven’t been caught for it, so keep doing what you’re doing!
You can state that you’re interested in the good of this country by taxing marijuana and getting a bunch of stoners out of jails / prisons…but I’ll call your bluff on that one. You’re full of shit, and you just want to get high.
You either need to get over yourself or do something about it, and this blog isn’t the place to do something about it. You have a bunch of people on your ass for continuing a topic, not necessarily because they disagree with the subject. You’re hurting your cause with every comment.
What definition are you looking at Ryan?
contribute
–verb (used with object)
1. to give (money, time, knowledge, assistance, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc., as for charitable purposes.
2. to furnish (an original written work, drawing, etc.) for publication: to contribute stories to a magazine.
–verb (used without object)
3. to give (money, food, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc.: He contributes to many charities.
4. to furnish works for publication: He contributed to many magazines.
—Idiom
5. contribute to, to be an important factor in; help to cause: A sudden downpour contributed to the traffic jam.
Positive and negative, it’s contribution. Yes, that means we have to deal with what we see as negative as well, which for me at least is the continuation of this stupid topic.
Take the risk, smoke your shit, fight for it…but know at the same time that displaying your blind zeal for weed legalization on this blog accentuates your overall idiocy.
You’re fighting for legalization of a mind altering substance. In the greater scope of things, it would make far more sense to fight for overall rights of the individual and upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. You have tunnel vision, you’re narrow minded, and no matter how many sources you post up your credibility is slashed because all you give a shit about is your right to get high.
Go get high, you’re obviously doing it! You (to my knowledge) haven’t been caught for it, so keep doing what you’re doing!
You can state that you’re interested in the good of this country by taxing marijuana and getting a bunch of stoners out of jails / prisons…but I’ll call your bluff on that one. You’re full of shit, and you just want to get high.
You either need to get over yourself or do something about it, and this blog isn’t the place to do something about it. You have a bunch of people on your ass for continuing a topic, not necessarily because they disagree with the subject. You’re hurting your cause with every comment.
Double post FTW. Way for WordPress to act like it was taking a shit on me when it wasn’t.
WordPress database error: [Illegal mix of collations (latin1_swedish_ci,IMPLICIT) and (utf8_general_ci,COERCIBLE) for operation '=']
SELECT comment_ID FROM wp_comments WHERE comment_post_ID = ‘2051′ AND ( comment_author = ‘Marcus’ OR comment_author_email = ‘mbix59@gmail.com’ ) AND comment_content = ‘What definition are you looking at Ryan? con?trib?ute –verb (used with object) 1. to give (money, time, knowledge, assistance, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc., as for charitable purposes. 2. to furnish (an original written work, drawing, etc.) for publication: to contribute stories to a magazine. –verb (used without object) 3. to give (money, food, etc.) to a common supply, fund, etc.: He contributes to many charities. 4. to furnish works for publication: He contributed to many magazines. —Idiom 5. contribute to, to be an important factor in; help to cause: A sudden downpour contributed to the traffic jam. Positive and negative, it\’s contribution. Yes, that means we have to deal with what we see as negative as well, which for me at least is the continuation of this stupid topic. Take the risk, smoke your shit, fight for it…but know at the same time that displaying your blind zeal for weed legalization on this blog accentuates your overall idiocy. You\’re fighting for legalization of a mind altering substance. In the greater scope of things, it would make far more sense to fight for overall rights of the individual and upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. You have tunnel vision, you\’re narrow minded, and no matter how many sources you post up your credibility is slashed because all you give a shit about is your right to get high. Go get high, you\’re obviously doing it! You (to my knowledge) haven\’t been caught for it, so keep doing what you\’re doing! You can state that you\’re interested in the good of this country by taxing marijuana and getting a bunch of stoners out of jails / prisons…but I\’ll call your bluff on that one. You\’re full of shit, and you just want to get high. You either need to get over yourself or do something about it, and this blog isn\’t the place to do something about it. You have a bunch of people on your ass for continuing a topic, not necessarily because they disagree with the subject. You\’re hurting your cause with every comment.’ LIMIT 1
Marcus, first when I say “contrubute” I say “contribute to the topic”.. In other words See Guideline number 1 of the message board: Please stay polite and on topic.
Yeah, Im talking to you. Thanks. I hope that clears things up.
“Go get high, you’re obviously doing it! You (to my knowledge) haven’t been caught for it, so keep doing what you’re doing!”
I stay legal. When I was in WA, I was legal and didn’t need to change any laws to be legal. It was part of the states laws.
In Idaho smoking pot is not legal, I do not smoke now.
I am changing laws, because I don’t like being a criminal.
Please quit ASSuming things. Thanks!
Oh and Marcus, I am finding out that smoking marijuana as a religious sacrament is legal. See this link..
http://xcannabis.com/2009/05/freedom-of-relgion-and-freedom-of-religious-sacrament/
I don’t care what you do on your time or in the name of your religion, but keep it in your home and away from my kids. On the topic of use for religious sacrament that’s my only concern.
as far is pot being legal for cancer I will leave that up for the medical community to decide and fight.
BTW do you know if it does anything for Bipolar Disorder? I know that oftentimes people with Bipolar self medicate with it.
Cool, well like I told Marcus. Tobacco kills 400,000 people per year in the US alone, and MILLIONS of people smoke it in public.
But Marijuana kills 0 people per year worldwide.
Your efforts would be better spent going after the dangerous substances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odjpapEXoeA
Public swimming pools kill more people than marijuana does for crying out loud!
April, I didn’t want to respond to you without having more data on the subject.
My opinion is this. Marijuana helps with depression, and this has been confirmed by many doctors. The theory is that since marijuana increases the serotonin production in low doses. I have long used marijuana to treat my depression.
RE: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304996,00.html
I always moderate my usage anyway, so the low dose usage applies to me at all times. And I can testify that it has been truly effective.
I don’t know how it would effect bi-polar disorder. I have saw some reports that say marijuana is bad for bipolar, but I haven’t confirmed that with any credible science. Mostly just mental health docs that are trying to push legal prescriptions say that. But I haven’t saw a credible study to it.
But again, my opinion tells me that if it helps depression, it ought to help bi-polar.
I am still undecided though.
kk just curious. I can see why a Bipolar would be drawn to it then… especially if it gets rid of the “lows” but lets them keep the “highs”. Just curious what your thoughts were on it.
Thanks so much for the question. I think that the best resource for this question would be information from Dr. Mitch Earleywine PhD. He is a professor of psychology at the State University of New York, and is probably THE #1 professional expert on marijuana and psychological effects.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5832
Dr. Earleywine does appear on the NORML Daily Audio stash every Wednesday I believe. This would be a good question to ask him.
‘The Stash’ is located at http://stash.norml.org
You can send your questions to: stash@norml.org
He will give you the facts. He often talks about the negative side-effects of marijuana.
He has quite a reputation to protect, and I would trust his opinion on this topic more than anyone’s quite honestly.
April,
This is another site that I like to get opinions from patients at:
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24642&highlight=bi-polar
TreatingYourself.com is a great resource.