The government is throwing money out the window for people to grab. Almost all you have to do is be waiting below to catch it. There are billions of dollars being requested from cities and states all across the nation. Idaho Falls could have been one of those to receive some of the financial windfall. There’s just one problem. The city of Idaho Falls never sent the request for the funding to the right place.
That’s potentially millions of dollars lost for this area. Millions. So who’s to blame for this blunder? Mayor Jared Fuhriman says he takes responsibility. According to the Post Register: “The buck stops here”, he said. “I take full responsibility for not getting it in.”
What’s that? A politician taking responsibility for his actions? That’s a first for me! Well, so we’re not on the welfare wagon – no millions to role around in. Mayor, you blew it. I’ll say – you really blew it! But I’m impressed we have a man in office who admits when he’s wrong. It’s too bad his opponents will try to tear him to shreds over this come next election. But for standing up and telling the truth and taking accountability – pending no future major blunders, he’s got my vote next time around.
Popularity: 12%
Related posts:
Gato got runned over by Marcus many moons ago. Be ye daft, 2486? 
Let's have a new poll, alright, Joe?
Loading ...
{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }
I think the mayor should be held accountable for the mistake, regardless if he’s taking accountability for it. This is a major lack of leadership, and he should be strung up for it!
Strung up? Thats a tad bit harsh dont you think? I believe we’ll all be better off for it in the long run when we’re not being taxed to death for the next 4 decades to pay back all those millions. Remember people there is no free lunch.
I’m beginning to remember why I left this site in the first place. It’s starting to read like a right-wing pundit blog.
“Guest Writer” has an infantile understanding of the Stimulus package, and uses the failures of a local leader to push his anti-Obama agenda onto the site.
Before I’m ridiculed, read over the poster’s words again – “The government is throwing money out the window for people to grab.” Well, he’s not really talking about “the government”, he’s talking about the proponents of the bill. It was championed by Obama.
Then, in noting the mayor’s failure to apply for projects in the area – projects that would IMPROVE our local community and provide JOBS for construction workers and contractors, he says, “Well, so we’re not on the welfare wagon – no millions to role around in.”
This kind of ignorant, smarmy garbage should be policed by the site. Unless this is where the new owner wants to the site to go in, to which I say good riddance. Garbage. Utter garbage.
Look, I’m no champion for Obama, even though I did vote for the guy (hello, did you see the alternative?) and I think that right-wing thinking has its place, but this article is pure garbage.
I didn’t read it that way. I don’t think it’s a slam at the package, it feels more like a slam at the Mayor, who didn’t do his job, but then she stands up for the mayor, who I think is a Democrat anyway.
Obama has been thrown into a mess that George Bush created. Thank heavens McCain wasn’t elected or we’d be in deeper trouble than we are now.
’strung up’? I hope you mean figuratively!
This is a tough spot.
On one hand Jared stepped up as he has in the past and honestly admitted where he made a mistake. Gotta give him credit for that courage and ethical fiber, and for that he reminds me why I voted for him and want to vote for him again.
On the other hand, it is more depressing news on top of all the other depressing news. As bad as things were, we had a small chance to get a few bucks to make some nice things in our community and spread some money around to working families, and Jared blew it by not paying close attention. And for that I think of the mistakes he has made and wonder if I can bring myself to vote for him again.
The only thing we can hope for is that enough other cities blew the deadline that the state decides to give a second chance submission due to the misunderstandings and given that this whole job has been rushed. For once, we have to hope that Jared’s Republican ties help him with the Republican power and get us some of those projects.
It is a disappointing situation no matter if you blame or support the mayor. This sucks.
A right-wing pundit blog? Gosh I hope not. I’m about as left wing as you can get and I’m having trouble believing the stimulus program is a good thing. I’m not sure that it is a bad thing that Idaho Falls isn’t going to get any of this money. I think I agree with CR’s comment (#2). Only time will tell on this package. I still don’t understand all the ramifications on this package even though I have read quite a bit about it. I don’t see anything right wing or left wing about it.
The money in the stimulus is going to be doled out regardless of whether Idaho Falls got the money or not. So we aren’t saving anyone anything and we aren’t saving our children the taxes they’ll have to pay on it. All we are doing is ensuring that our city is going to get left out while other cities in Idaho get money. So I really don’t understand comments like #2 or #6.
Thank you anonymous. A bunch of people seem to think that by taking money from a bill that has ALREADY PASSED we’ll somehow by infected by some awful socialist zombie virus. They’re coming for you, Barbara …
The money is out there, already. By not taking it, we’re not doing the common taxpayer any favors. We’re just strangling our local community.
Idaho Native – re-read the main post to this discussion. Tell me there isn’t an agenda there.
You don’t think that the money is going to have to be paid back? I admit, I don’t know how they are going to repay all the money that is being borrowed. But I think it will have to eventually be paid back.
And as far as any agenda. We can read anything we want into something that someone has written. If there is a particular post that offends you, then stay away from it, or comment on it, but remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Something you all may not understand is that if we receive money, it is regulated as to how it can be spent. It doesn’t mean that the city’s budget just increases with x amount of dollars to spend as we wish. It HAS to be used on certain things, like new roads, welfare programs, or new education type programs. And while these things may be nice–and needed–they have to be maintained. The Fed’s money won’t be there every year, and sooner or later, we’ll have to pay to keep those programs going, or those new roads maintained. We can’t even afford what we have now! Why would we want to pile on more? I am glad that the Mayor takes responsibility for whatever blunder was made. Way to be a man. Here we are complaining about our crooked politicians and their lack of accountability in Washington, while here at home we have the kind of politician we all expect and want and all we do is criticize? We are pathetic, not him. I for one would have been upset if he had taken any money to begin with. You watch, this “stimulus” scheme will last maybe 10 months and then everyone who took money (including the state of Idaho) will be worse off than it is now, and looking to raise fees and taxes to pay for the new programs. It’s like buying a new car because your dad says he’ll make the down payment and co-sign with you plus you can go 45 days without a payment. Until you wake up and realize you have a new monthly payment that your income won’t support….You’ll be back asking your dad for more money before its over.
Jeremy, way to go for the ad hominem attacks. Classy touch.
Be careful about projecting onto others that for which you are guilty as well…
I don’t think anyone could actually believe in the reasoning of this post so I don’t think I will bite all the way. It is too obviously forced.
This is what I know for a fact that some people believe: I was in a conversation 3 weeks ago where a group of were saying that if we accept any stimulus package, then Obama will get credit for making things better. I don’t know if that’s the exact fear, just incomplete, or a variation of it but I do know it is lots closer to the thinking of the author of this post than what was authored
Ace – show me where I made an ad-hominem attack. I never said anything about the author or his mother – how could I? He’s anonymous!
I said he has an infantile understanding of the stimulus bill. Because he does. “The government is throwing money out the window”? Come on …
Knock it off, Jeremy Plothow. When ever you ever left this site it’s because you didn’t agree with what others, possibly the majority, were posting here. Big deal. Not everyone agrees with your words, your opinion, but you probably don’t see them throwing a hissy fit, stomping their virtual fit, slamming their virtual door, and making a virtual promise to their virtual webgod to never post here – ever, ever again.
The Mayor, Jared Fuhriman, really messed up, like BIG time. Yeah, Idaho – for the most part – didn’t elect President Obama. Oh, well. He’s still the President and the money he’s printing during this time of recession is meant to help us, too. Help who?
People in Idaho who’ve lost their homes, their jobs, their bank accounts and emergency money (if they had any) through the building of community resources: Like roads, their improvements. Libraries, their improvements, and the like. The big thing about all that building, all that improvement that would have occurred, had not Mayor Jared Fuhriman been lax about scheduling it in too his already busy schedule is all the J O B S!!! that would have been created!
Those created jobs would have hired a lot of folks who have lost jobs over the last several months during this mad, crazy, recessive recession. But we lost out, thanks to our fine Mayor, Jared Fuhriman.
I’m sure he had our best intentions at heart.
First, i think it’s good to remember please everyone to please stay focused on discussing the issues, not attacking each other.
Jeremy brings some of the best arguments I’ve seen to a discussion. Well thought out, good reasoning, and compelling. I agree with a lot of what he has to say and I think Jeremy is right on in questioning the authors views of the package. I’m not sure, Jeremy, that you are right that he was attacking obama, though, more the stimulus package itself. And if I remember correctly, it was Bush who first approved the billions, possibly so he could take credit or avoid blame for not taking some steps to fix things.
The government is sending out a lot of money. I think this money is needed for the economy, but I think they’ve got a major flaw, and that is it doesn’t look like to me they are giving much thought or planning into where the money is going, how it will be used, or have a plan of accountability to see to ensure consequences if those receiving the money do not produce results. In that sense, I agree with the author. I don’t think, however, this is just a welfare program. But there appears to be a lack of organization and accountability, and when you’re dealing with this many dollars – that seems a little irresponsible for whoever is appointed by the government to manage the process.
Jared Fuhriman, a true Idaho hero. Through a “mistake” that was completely his own, he’s followed the directorate of our leaders in Boise who’ve publicly stated that they don’t want money from the stimulus package that’s going to have to be repaid by our children and grandchildren.
Just more of the same lies being fed to us by our superior Republican leaders who’d rather see the populace of Idaho fall victim to high unemployment than cow tow to legislation passed by the Democrat serpent that’s temporarily taken over our country.
A time for change may soon come to Idaho. Jared, and a whole tassel of his cohorts will receive my no vote the next time around.
Feel free to to join me in stepping out of the Twentieth century and into the Twenty First, where we’ll have a chance to deal with today’s problems.
Well said Ben (comment #10). I think your comments are right on. Yes, the additional funds would be nice. Yes, area improvements would be great. But, what will future costs be to maintain them? What strings are attached in order to accept the money? Unless we fully understand that side of the arguement, it is hard to debate the Mayor’s actions or inaction.
Good. Glad we’re not seeing a dime of this.
Jeremy (comment #3) – Regardless if the site moves to the right of center, or even to the left of center, it is healthy to have all view points present in a debate. Without opposing views, there really is no true debate. Besides, if opposing views leave the arguement or debate, how can they hope to change anyone’s mind?
Good point Joe. All you have to do is look at the first 60+ billion dollars that was given to GM last year. Where the heck did all that money go that they need another 60-70 billion? It’s obvious that when it comes to this amount of money, people aren’t going to spend it wisely and that’s why I don’t agree with the whole stimulus package. Neither do investors across the country. All you have to do is look at the stock market to see the lack of consumer and investor confidence. Our market continues to drop to all time record lows. If GM couldn’t pull themselves together with the first 60 billion than I say “tough luck”! File for chapter 11 and be done with it. It’s not the governments job (ie the American public) to bail out every failing company who made the decision years ago not to manage their companies wisely. People are greedy by nature and too many idiots are running these large corporations and I think the problem started long before the Bush administration. Too many people lack honesty and a hard work ethic and that my friends, is what put this country in the state it’s in. Anyone who’s gone to college knows the amount of cheating that goes on. It was prevelant back in my day (late 80’s) and it’s prevelant to this day. I would be interested to know the true numbers of how many people actually received a college degree by cheating their way through college. I’m sure the numbers are staggering. Then these people turn around and are hired as our nations CEO’s, accountants, management, etc. Do you honestly think that now that they have a nice well paying job that their going to suddenly stop cheating? I don’t. I think it only gets worse. I’ve worked for a number of a large and small corporations over the years and have seen enough dirty dealing going on to know better. And it’s even more prevelant the higher up the ladder you go. And until this country takes a step back and gets back to a time where we took pride in our country and pride in our work, only then will we be able to turn this country around. We’ve become a lazy ass nation who only want to do the least amount of work possible for the maximum amount of pay and it shows. Hardly anything is made in this country anymore. Nobody wants to put in a hard days work for an honest days pay. We’d rather send our factories to Mexico or China and have them do the work for us.
I say stop with the hand-outs. The government is only enabling it’s people and teaching the next generation that if you fail they’ll be there to give you a hand out and that’s wrong in my book. If you fail, too bad! Suffer the consequences of your actions, dust yourself off and give it another go. But you don’t do it at the expense of others.
And that’s my rant for day.
Okay, what you people don’t get and then tell me to “knock it off” is that I’m not objecting to the author’s view point. Didn’t I initially say that right-wing thinking is fine? I was addressing the author’s clear bias and ignorant attitude toward the stimulus package.
I didn’t avoid this site because I started to disagree with it – I steered clear because this site was turning into an outlet for people to express their hate and ignorance unmoderated and to attack anyone who disagreed with them.
And it seems like nothing has changed. I’m pointing out that this entry was irresponsible, flippant, and ignorant, and I’m being told to shut up and that I’m using ad-hominem attacks. I’m not. I’m simply pointing out that the author was full of crap, which he is, and I won’t apologize for that.
Comment # 20 by CR67 Hardly anything is made in this country anymore. Nobody wants to put in a hard days work for an honest days pay. We’d rather send our factories to Mexico or China and have them do the work for us.
hardly anything is made in this country because the corporations want it made cheaply, and they dont want to pay americans an honest days pay for an honest days work. In other comments you seem to condemn people who work in “low end jobs” so make your mind up, for the american who might work in a factory stitching clothes together for store like Target, would they be condemned in your opinion as a ‘loser’, who needs to get an education.
Back to the subject in hand, for all of those rejoicing in the mayor’s apparent mistake, someone is going to get the money, your children will still be paying it back. He has done a disservice to idaho and is a disgrace, and im not so sure it wasnt on purpose.
I hope it was on purpose. I would certainly respect the man more if it was.
well if it was on purpose and he admits to a ‘mistake’ hmm that would be great giving a liar and cheat more respect
Yeah, I have a lot of respect for a mayor who refuses to create jobs in his local community. What a hero!
The government’s function is not to create jobs. Get out there and work for yourself. Learn a trade. Acquire working skills. Depending solely on an employer is a mistake, and it’s not the government’s job to get you out of it.
We all have the ability to fend for ourselves, but too damn many of us seem to think that we are dependent on the government and evil employers / corporations. Create your own job. Offer a service / product that people need to get by. Put some blood, sweat and tears into your family’s continued existence.
Marcus – sure, that works in theory. I understand the concept of the libertarian view of the free market system, but that concept is incompatible with the modern economy. Overpopulation has made it impossible for the “trade economy” to work.
What you’re describing is the economic ideal – where everyone has a specialization and contribute to the whole. While this may have worked in the past, the world has moved on. America does not have a trade economy. Modern America has a service economy.
Idaho Falls has a population of somewhere around 50,000 people. Let’s assume that around 50% of those people are in the workforce. Do you really think that there is enough demand for 25,000 people to engage in “trade” labor?
Not even close. This is why government subsidization is necessary right now. The stimulus package is designed to CREATE jobs where the free market is unable to do so. This is the major travesty of mayor Fuhriman’s failure to submit necessary projects in Idaho Falls.
My cousin was recently laid off from his construction company. He is a skilled laborer who is very good at drywall and tile. He learned his trade. But there simply is no more work on account of the economy.
So, your concept of people learning a trade and working for a living is great in theory, but in the modern economic reality, it just doesn’t work. Like it or not, we exist in a world where governments MUST participate in the economy. It’s absolutely necessary.
For example, part of the stimulus package is designed to update infrastructure – roads, greenbelts, etc. The city requests money from the bill, then hire contractors to carry out the work. The contractors get more money and more projects, are required to hire more labor, which creates jobs Those jobs create tax revenue which repays the bill’s loan.
The Site is also getting a great deal of money, which is creating jobs. One group is creating something like 40-50 jobs.
The goal right now MUST be job creation. The job market is drying up, especially in SE Idaho. I work in a restaurant and I have seen our steam of customers dwindle very noticeably. That means I have less income, which means I pay less taxes. Which means the government gets less money. Which means we won’t be able to pay back the “loan” for the stimulus plan.
But what if the plan works? What it we are able to create thousands of job’s under Obama’s “socialist” plan? Suddenly, people have more money. They pay more taxes, have more discretionary income, and visit my restaurant. They pay me, I pay taxes. We’re all contributing to the system, the system that made our jobs possible.
But now, we may not be able to find out. Perhaps the State will still send some of the stimulus money our way, but who knows? The mayor has made our decision for us whether or not we are willing to participate in the plan.
For that, he is not a hero. He is a failure. He has betrayed Idaho Falls.
Please don’t put words in my mouth Crystal. I never said I condemn anyone for working a “low end job” nor did I call them a loser. What I have said in the past is that if those people can’t get by or don’t make enough to support their family than they should do whatever they can to advance their education or learn a trade that would enable them to find a better paying job. On the same token, I know quite a few people who don’t have a college degree and they make a great living and have no problem supporting themselves and their family. They learned a trade and/or they worked their way up the corporate ladder by hard work and by taking pride in what they do. The point is, too many people don’t want to work hard in this day and age to provide for their families. Too many people are looking for a hand out.
According to the news report last night this issue concerning the mayor was but one particular request that failed to make it through. There are apparently other requests they’ve sent in for other funding. So to all of you that are looking for this hand-out for our city, don’t worry, it appears that we’ll still be receiving some.
Re: Post #9 by Idaho Native
Yes we do have to pay the stimulus money back and the whole country will share that burden regardless of who got what out of the stimulus. Thanks to the city gov’s screwup Idaho Falls won’t get any benefits from the stimulus but we will get our share of having to pay it back.
In response to Jeremy, Comment #27:
I’m not describing an ideal, I’m describing a necessity. People that have been laid off need to get out of the unemployment line, off of any government programs that they are on, and do something, whether that be working for somebody else (as a regular employee) at half of their previous wage, or doing odd jobs for folks around town and paying the important bills. Get off of the government teat!
It’s not even necessary for “everyone to have a specialization and contribute to the whole”. Those that don’t contribute can go ahead and not contribute…the only person that really suffers is the non-contributor, assuming that nobody is feeding him.
Restructure your finances. Get rid of unnecessary monthly expenditures. Maintain a garden. Buy your own egg laying chickens. Become as self sufficient as possible, and minimize the money required for you and your family to live month to month. Enjoy the time that you spend with your loved ones, now that there is no TV to watch or web to surf (you cut those monthlies in the finance restructure, remember).
Your cousin should be actively seeking any kind of work that he can find. Limiting yourself to two or three options is a waste of potential. You can be amazing at drywall and tile, and still do a damn good job performing general home maintenance repairs, cleaning services or pouring concrete…even if it’s the last thing in the world that you want to be doing.
Our government is convincing people through fear of the unknown that without governmental presence in the economy, the economy will fail. You seem to have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
“Fear is the passion of slaves.” – Patrick Henry
The government is nothing without the people that stand behind it, and at this point I don’t think anything can get us out of these precarious economic conditions. Introducing mass amounts of un-backed federal notes for the sake of spending is lunacy…we’re not accomplishing anything other than accommodating the devaluation of the dollar, generating debt, and slowing the inevitable fall. I want it to just up and fall already. I’m looking forward to rebuilding.
We need to start over with the understanding that government regulation of the market inhibits the growth and prosperity of those in the marketplace. With an understanding that the government is here to take our orders and direction, not to command us, overtax us, and restrict us. It is here to ensure the ability of U.S. citizens to grow and prosper (life, liberty, property). Government officials have become power hungry, expanding the role of government in our everyday lives to infringe on our liberties rather than safeguarding them.
We cannot legally hunt or fish to provide for our families without obtaining permission to do so by paying a government agency. We cannot legally make major repairs to our households without obtaining permission to do so by paying a government agency in most cases. We can’t build on our own land without obtaining permission to do so by paying a government agency. However, the government can and does remove our property from our possession to accommodate government expansion. What happened to our property rights? I don’t care if the government will pay me for the land used at 3x it’s value (unheard of)…it is my choice whether or not I turn over ownership of my property.
We need to push back, and we need to do it sooner than later. Encourage those close to you that really get it to run for public office at any level. Vote based on issue, not based on party affiliation. Vote with your hearts, and for your children.
Involve your children in what is happening right now. They are not stupid, and will thank you for keeping them in the loop. Let them know exactly what is at risk, and ask them how it makes them feel. Turn their negative feelings into knowledge, and the understanding that with enough hard work we can accomplish anything. Encourage them to read up on and become well versed in American History. What worked, what didn’t, why this nation was founded and how it came to be. Encourage them to research other countries as well, asking the same questions.
We need to raise thinkers, not sheep. Teach them to question everything, especially what is being shoved at them in public school. Most of us have, as children, been trained to blindly follow (especially in the public school system), and it is our responsibility to make sure that it doesn’t happen to our children. Raise thinkers. Preserve our nation.
Amen
I agree with you there Marcus. Good post.
Okay, I get it, but behind the rhetoric, what does this have to do with the economic stimulus package?
We can talk about personal responsibility and passion and freedom all we want. We can talk about self-sufficiency and personal responsibility until the sun comes up and goes back down again.
But we cannot talk ourselves out of the crap-fest that is our economy. Talking doesn’t create jobs, it doesn’t put food on tables.
I totally agree with some of your points – I have spent the warmer days recently building a chicken coop in my backyard and preparing a sustainable garden to help prepare for possible tough economic times (oh, and gardening is good for the soul).
But let’s be realists. It’s wonderful to have a skill and to know how to provide for yourself. But right here, right now, we have to be realistic about the big economic picture. That requires action, and that requires a plan. At least Obama is doing something. and I think his plan is at least mostly sound.
His plan, if successful, is going to remove a good chunk of our freedoms to provide for ourselves and our families.
Right now that plan appears to be economically centered around spending and creating or retaining jobs. The big picture, which has not yet been disclosed to we the people, could be any number of things. From where I’m standing, I see those with political power trying to turn this country into a socialist (possibly even communist) nation. You may be content with the idea that you report to you post daily, have your daily ration of food in your belly every night, and a roof over your head for whatever menial task you happen to be performing on a daily basis…but it’s just not good enough for me.
I’d sooner fight and die for my freedom, my liberty, than stand aside and allow it to be stripped from me. I refuse to allow somebody else to choose the path that ultimately leads to my grave.
Tough economic times are not a possibility…they are a reality. They are here, and they’re going to get worse. The government can’t fix this one unless we revoke our abilities to attempt to climb out of the hole that we’re in as individuals.
Marcus…you are a [moderated] idiot. How old are you? 19? When you get laid off at age 59 and are over qualified….go look for a job and then get back to me.
UN:F [1.8.4_1055]
Last week Mayor Furhiman told a grop of local people of some of his plans for the stimulus money and said the requests were sent to the state. Some of his projects included a foot bridge across the Sanke River at Snake River Landing, and his plans to expand the greenbelt along Memorial Dr., maybe that was to help Frank Vandersloot who, according to the Mayor has big plans to develope some of the downtown area. I may be mistaken but I thought some of the stimulus money was to go for fixing cities infrastructure. In the past we’ve heard the mayor talk about the need for a new plice station, a new fire station downtown would be nice also since the present one built in 1931 has cracked apparatus floors and should probably be condemed. Now since the Mayor failed to follow up on stimulus money requests Idaho Falls is for the most part out of luck. Now we can look forward to the Mayor asking for a tax levi or a bond to build aging infrastructure projects. The Mayor has dropped the ball more than once with federal money requests, the Sunnyside Rd project to name one. It seems to me that the Mayor is trying to help select others in development and leave city taxpayers out on their own. The Mayor need to park his municipally disfunctional ass in a locked room until the next city election.
Anon 35 – I suspect Marcus is smarter than to get “laid off” by the time he hits 59…
And to your question: if you’ve been continuously employed by age 59, you have some pretty serious and specialized skill sets. At that point you don’t go looking for a job. You make your own job.
You watch. Self-employment will be the key to getting out of this recession.
Marcus, please articulate the liberties you are losing with the economic stimulus package. No more generalities or long-winded speeches about liberty, let’s talk turkey here. What has Obama done specifically that makes you think that we’re heading toward communism, that you are losing your liberties, or that America is doomed?
I’m getting so tired of this national discussion we’re having because it’s utterly baseless. Barack Obama is an EXPERT on the constitution – he was a constitutional law professor for Pete’s sake! So far, all of 50 some odd days into his presidency, he has taken dramatic steps to reclaim America – closing an illegal prison, setting a withdrawal plan from Iraq, setting up one of the most ambitious stimulus packages in history … and yet all we can do is make dramatic general statements about “liberty” and socialism.
I believe we should criticize our leaders, but this discussion is infantile and meaningless. So I’m asking you, very plainly, to tell me HOW specifically the stimulus package is communist or strips you of your rights. Or are you done grandstanding yet?
And I’m getting tired of reading how tired you are of the discussions, the complaints and words you so reluctantly(?) willingly read here at “Idaho Falls Today,” Jeremy Plothow. But that doesn’t mean I’ll quit reading your histrionic expressions. Rather, I’ll respond with my own… response. ?
Many persons have shouted out in fear that Obama, and the liberals, in general, are attempting to turn this Country into one of socialism — or worse, a nation of communism (heaven help us). Being able to vote for our those who lead us doesn’t protect us from those potential nightmares. Canada might be the very best example of that last sentence: A Country with a large land mass, equal to that of the U.S.A., yet considerably less people, many of who attempt to come here because their own land offers them so few opportunities.
As a nurse I’ve worked with many other nurses who’ve come from Canada and they never want to go back. As a university student I had many friends from communist countries and they NEVER wanted to go back.
Enough of that, but what about President Obama’s actions allows persons to think he threatens our Country with socialism or communism? Their thoughts do deserve to be heard! Their questions deserve answers!
Finally, Mr. Plothow, how does printing up billions of dollars in rescue money without any financial backing (i.e. – pretty much fake money) constitute “one of the most ambitious stimulus packages in history?”
so if it’s ‘fake money’ we wouldnt need to pay it back. This ‘fake’ money will be creating jobs and allowing people to live and further stimulate the economy, well i guess thanks to the mayor idaho falls will not stimulate it that much, but that doesnt matter because heaven forbid we will soon be a communist nation. That sort of chat is so ridiculous
We’ll be working to make the money real for a very long time, even though we didn’t get some of the money. Say thanks to President Obama.
In response to Jeremy, Comment #37:
Obama is only a part of the problem. Those that voted this bill through warrant more concern than the fellow that signed off on it. To focus on only the stimulus / spending bill is to deny that any other actions pursued by those in office over the last 232 years have affected the individual’s ability to plot his own course and build his own success. The government is essentially providing those without the drive to make their own way a free ticket to pseudo success, while placing unjust restrictions on achievers.
Innovation has always thrived in our great nation, while it has been stifled in others. We are a nation of doers, of thinkers. We find a way to put into practice that of which others can only dream. Private business / individuals created the light bulb, the telephone, the method by which to generate and harness electricity, the modern method of producing the automobile (and several other products), plastic eating utensils and paper plates…the list goes on. The drive behind all of these was not to better society by adding convenience to the lives of the people, but to bring in revenue.
Earlier in this string of comments, you mentioned that we do not produce anything in this country anymore, and it’s completely accurate. Why would our businesses produce goods here at a higher tax rate under increasing restrictions on industry when they can move their operation to another country that welcomes them with open arms at a lower tax rate and industry restriction? It doesn’t make business sense not to move operations.
Our economy is in trouble because of government action to place restrictions on business. Because of government action that rewards innovation and success with greater taxation and restriction. Our producers are leaving en masse, and in their place is a void that was once a great portion of activity in our economy. The government’s answer, of course, is not to remove restrictions on business and industry, on the people, to promote economic growth in the sectors that are absent, but rather to funnel un-backed federal notes (debt) into the hole to in an effort temporarily plug it.
These notes are being offered to states in a menu format that outlines what they can be used for. When a state chooses to take this money and the plan that comes with it, the state is making a commitment to continue the menu item that was chosen after the initial funding has been exhausted. This results in further restrictions on business, on the people residing in the state, and on the state itself by the federal government. We are placing our already indebted children, grandchildren and great grandchildren (most who have not been born yet) in a very compromising position. They are the ones that will foot the bill for this, and there is no telling what restrictions will be in place on an individual’s ability to prosper by the time they are able to begin paying this back. Our government officials are enslaving our future generations.
This extends beyond the recently passed bill of debt which seems to be the only focus of your argument. We must look forward at what is to come if we expect to get out of this with our current liberties intact, and we must fight at the polls at every election for those that have been taken away from us. If we continue to support expansion of government and further restrictions on the individual, we will be in a very tough spot. It won’t be long before they restrict or remove our ability to protect ourselves and our families…our ability to provide for ourselves and our families. It won’t be long before our only option is not an option at all…government. As I stated before, “I’d sooner fight and die for my freedom, my liberty, than stand aside and allow it to be stripped from me. I refuse to allow somebody else to choose the path that ultimately leads to my grave.”
Life is a struggle. Nothing comes without an exchange. I will not forfeit my freedom for a guarantee of continued life in bondage, no matter how lavish it appears to be. We all need to be wary of the wolves prancing about in sheep’s clothing that continue to spew bald faced lies to the American people.
You will likely discredit this comment as well, because rather than focusing only on your question, I have gone into the realm of human ability vs. government expansion. All I ask is that you consider the repercussions of further government expansion both in social aspects of our day to day lives and restrictions on business / industry. Look beyond the daily headlines of whatever publications you may read, and put some healthy thought into what the end result may be.
If we’re gonna be communists, can we at least be well-dressed communists?
Re: Post #29 Anonymous
I admit right up front that I don’t really understand the stimulus package or the repercussions of it, but I would think that each city that gets money is going to be taxed on their city taxes to pay it back, and then the State is going to increase their taxes to pay the State’s portion back. So, if I’m right in my thinking, then each Idaho Falls taxpayer shouldn’t see an increase in their City taxes to pay back the stimulus since they didn’t get any of the money. But we will all feel the hurt on our State Income Taxes.
Jeremy, keep up the good fight. There are more progressives participating on this site than you may realize.
We can’t let the “party of no” get the better of us, and it’s important to call them out when they start slinging around false accusations of “communism” and “socialism.”
And to those of you who think we as a country are on a slippery slope to socialism, I suggest you may want to research what that word actually means. Americans already benefit from social ideas like police & fire departments. If you think we’d be better off going it on our own, living off the land, & struggling for every scrap of food we put on our tables – who are you going to call when your house catches fire? Who are you going to call when your child is lost? Please get over yourselves & accept the fact that some social programs are good & benefit this wonderful country.
Trying to turn the mayor’s grave inexcusable “oversight” into subtle argument for his integrity and wisdom is just pitiful.
This is the same way of thinking that led Bush to announce to ex Fema director Michael Brown that “You’re doing a helluva job.”.
And as someone else mentioned, hoping that “he did it on purpose” is hoping he is a liar who is too ashamed of the real reasons he did this.
I don’t check this site often since the variety of view points represented started becoming very limited last year. I am not saying this to attack anyone else. I just want to tell Jeremy Plothow that I really appreciate his perspective even if I don’t always agree politically. Jeremy, I hope you stick around more often. You are a breath of fresh air.
this story should be passed on to the national news because it is a disgrace, dont know if they would use it, but i hope some national news does pick it up
I’m so sick of hearing the same tired story about the police, fireman & public school systems, being “socialist”. We’re all well aware of that. And most of us are ok with it to a certain extent. It’s when you start turning everything else over the the government, and expect our government to take care of us completely. That’s what most of us are disagreeing with.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how much money Obama throws at this problem he’s not going to solve it. Period.
Okay, Marcus, I gave you a chance to defend your position before I dismantle it. I asked you plainly to give SPECIFIC facts about how YOUR liberties have been eroded, specifically under the stimulus plan. I asked you to not go off on another lofty diatribe that so many are apt to do on websites like these, and what I get is another long-winded speech about “fake notes” and how the government is “enslaving” future generations. Gosh darn it, you sound … like … oh no, you sound like a lesser-educated me, about 2 years ago!
So let’s take this point by point:
1) “Fake money”. All money is fake, whether it is backed by gold or simply fiat currency. Fiat currency’s tradition dates back to the high middle ages, when merchants needed the security of being able to travel without carrying gold (here thar be poirates!) while still being able to participate in international trade. Hence, the banking note was born! Merchants developed a system, actually pioneered by the Italians in Verona, Milan, Pisa, and Florence along with an order of protector-knights called the Templars, of credit where they would invest gold with a fellow merchant or investor and sign a “bench” note (translated into Italian, that’s “Banko”, where we get “bank” from) which transformed his money into a paper note.
Now, fast-forward to today. Conspiracy theories involving the creation of the FED and the Illuminati and all that garbage have been pretty much all discredited. I’m afraid that I have concluded that Aaron Russo got it wrong. Sorry, internet, there is no immortal conspiracy, no meta-history of a plot against the common people. It just doesn’t happen that way.
To be perfectly honest, the banking system HAS been federalized. Obama did it with his bailout plan, but we also did it with the creation of the FDIC. Oh, and we did it in a BIG way with the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913. So if you want to talk about the REAL problem, it’s existed almost a decade now. And yet, only NOW, since we have a progressive-minded, dark-skinned, smooth-talking democrat in office do we begin to yell “SOCIALISM!” What shallow creatures we are.
Anyway, back to my point – FIAT currency is a world-wide phenomenon, and is just as valid as gold-backed currency. Let me explain it like this – what is the value of gold? Whatever we place on it. There is no absolute value to gold, and in a very real sense, it is just as “fake” as FIAT currency. What is money, anyway? It’s a medium to facilitate trade beyond the barter system. It’s a human invention. So what is the value of this “fake” money you are talking about – it’s just as valuable as “real” money, whatever that means.
Now, as for Obama “printing up all this fake money” to finance his little stimulus bill. Obama does not print money. I’ll say that again. OBAMA DOES NOT PRINT MONEY.
Continued:
Now, as for Obama “printing up all this fake money” to finance his little stimulus bill. Obama does not print money. I’ll say that again. OBAMA DOES NOT PRINT MONEY.
The Federal Reserve and its board determine how much money will be printed, interest rates, inflation rates, etc. Is this the best financial system? No, it’s the worst one, except for everything else that’s been tried before.
2) Obama is not eroding your freedoms, he’s not a communist, he’s not the anti-Christ. If you want to test your freedoms, go down to the city office and try to register a corporation. You’ll be surprised at how easy it is, how helpful the GOVERNMENT staff is, and how short the paperwork is. Try to vote. The GOVERNMENT goes above and beyond to make sure it’s easy and convenient. My polling place is an easy five minute walk from my home.
I’m wondering if any of you really understand what socialism and communism are. If you did, you would realize that America has never been a pure capitalist country – we have ALWAYS has socialist concepts in our framework because those concepts work. I have given this next statement a lot of thought as to whether I should introduce it into the debate, but I’m going to go ahead.
Socialist policies (taxation of the wealthy more than the poor, social programs, public schools) are a sign that there may be a sense of humanity in the government. Those who disagree with ALL social programs, ALL government assistance programs, ALL redistribution programs are self-centered and self-righteous. Is socialism charity? You betcha, but since when did we as Americans hate charity? You Christians out there, doesn’t your Christ teach you to care for the poor, to give up every earthly comfort in order to serve your fellow man? And yet, you cry “unfair” whenever the government tries to help those in need.
I’m not trying to turn this into a religious debate. Dear god I hope this is the last time it comes up. But it seems that those who are so quick to label America a “Christian” nature are those who fight so hard against this country enacting “Christian” policies of charity and giving.
3) Humanism. There seems to be a lot of this going around on this site right now – “people are capable of doing great things!” “Americans can pull themselves out of this!” blah blah blah. Look, we’re all very moved by your speeches about the infinite nature of human accomplishment, but that has little bearing on the present discussion.
Here’s a good question – what is the government. You all talk about it as if it were this looming robotic overlord or something. The government is comprised, get this, of PEOPLE. It is people we elect, people who write the bills and laws, people who enact policies, and it is eventually people who are effected. So stop making the government out to be this vague concept, some electrical storm gathering on the horizon.
4) Okay, it’s time to get serious. Stop insulting my intelligence and that of the other members of this site. It is utterly offensive and pathetic that this discussion has been essentially a small group of people grand-standing for attention with lofty, rhetorical speeches about freedom and liberty and the power of the human spirit. If you’re running for office, get the hell off this discussion. It’s time in America that we get realistic, become grounded in reality and talk about the REAL world. If you’re not willing to do that, then I can’t help you.
I’m skilled in rhetoric as well. I could certainly engage in this little ego-fest you all have going on, but I’m not going to do that. Now is the time for real discussion about real issues.
ps. As another test, go try and buy a gun. It’s easy. Obama isn’t going to take your guns (it’s a state issue, stupid) so shut up about it.
Jeremy…will you marry me? I’m prepared for the zompocalypse and I want you by my side!
You know, when it really comes down to it, I hope you’re right man. I won’t waste any more of our time with “lofty, rhetorical speeches about freedom and liberty.” For what it’s worth, it was fulfilling to spill the contents of my heart out in type, and I didn’t do a single bit of it for anybody other than me.
Oh, and just FYI, I invited the government over for tea and crumpets this weekend, and I hope to be able to get a good look at the it’s power cell while it’s over. If all goes according to plan, we’ll be rid of this ninja robot menace before this weekend is gone!
Economist and Nobel laureate, Milton Friedman, who held that government control of the economy should be severly restricted, nonetheless, understood the role of the Federal Reserve in preventing disasters like the Great Depression. He wrote:
The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe. Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933…Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government. — Milton Friedman, Two Lucky People, 233.
I doubt that anyone would call Friedman a Socialist or a Communist, yet his views certainly couldn’t have been that much at odds with what Obama is attempting to do to straighten out the mess he inherited.
Cavalierly throwing out labels like Socialist and Communist are too reminiscent of the days of Joe McCarthy and do little to elevate any dialogue necessary to aleviate our present financial dilemma.
I agree, Meso. I’ve heard theories that the FED caused the great depression, and there is certainly merit to that idea.
Jeremy,
You say: “You Christians out there, doesn’t your Christ teach you…
Those sound like the words of a non-believer…Have you become the Agnostic I predicted a few years back?
Regardless, it’s good to see you back in the saddle again, young man.
I hate to say you told me so, Meso …
Welcome to the club…
Wasn’t there some paper work that failed to reach it’s destination on the sunnyside project?
My goodness. I don’t know that I can handle much more stimulation than I’ve already experienced in this discussion, and I’m enthused that the chat has moved beyond the big lie told by our mayor.
I’ve read adulation and condemnation for the stimulus bill in almost all it’s forms. We’ve touched on socialism, communism, libertarianism, and Marcusism. It’s been a heck of a discussion, but when it comes to the entirety of the Stimulus Bill the discussion has been pitifully incomplete.
The most underplayed portion of the bill happens to be in its health provisions. As I understand it, part of the health provisions utilize the Department of Health Information Technology to monitor medical practices to ensure doctors are doing what the feds deem appropriate and cost effective. One of it’s goals is to guide your personal doctor’s decisions, while reducing medical costs across the board. It’ll be accomplished using an electronic health records system that the medical industry will be paid by the feds to create.
There will be payments to doctors and hospitals who are deemed “meaningful users” of the new electronic health records system. They’re also going to phase in Medicare payment penalties for doctors and hospitals that don’t jump on the electronic health record band wagon by 2014.
I’m not against the system they’re building, I think it’s a great idea, but what they can do with the system is a little scary.
Some of the plan looks like an apparition from Tom Daschle’s dreams. In his book, “Critical-What We Can Do About The Health Care Crisis,” Daschle states, “doctors have to give up autonomy and learn how to operate less like solo practitioners.”
The question becomes, how social do we want our medicine to be? While the feds are deeming the cost effectiveness of uncle Jims bypass surgery, are they going to take a week to do it? Maybe they’re going to consider the benefit in years of life verses cost of procedure? Jim’s 75, the operation’s 250k. It’s only going to give him another few years. No bypass for Jim.
Who’s to say? It’s probably just another boogieman, and like Mr. Plothow says, not much is real anyway.
Interesting points. I had not read much about the health reforms. It does seem like one step toward the nationalization of the health care industry, which I support anyway. I know most people here will be terrified at the concept of socialized medicine, but I think the time has come for America to re-assess its views on the free market, especially when it comes to health care.
But the again, I am uninsured, save for a pathetic health plan provided by the University (it’s required to attend). It would be nice to be able to visit the doctor rather than simply hoping I don’t get sick.
I often wonder what the health care system in this country would be like were it not for all the lobbyists that that industry has working for it. I think I read somewhere that there are at least two lobbyists from that industry for every U.S. congressman in DC.
I’m the kind of guy who likes to eat right, excercise, and watch his weight. Why the hell should I have to pay for health care for some nicotine addicted, obese, couch potato that has to drive down his driveway to get his mail?
Perhaps one of the first things we need to correct in this country, if we are ever to get a handle on our current financial crisis, is campaign finance reform. We have too many politicians beholden to the health care industry to really know how the system might work were it otherwise.
If Canada’s socialized medicine is working so well for them, then why are so many Canadian citizens foregoing the long waiting periods for medical procedures and coming here where the free market (albeit expensive) assures them ready access to those services?
The stimulus incentives that Obama and company would have us embracing would be better served were health care, at least the socialized version, not being made part of it.
Re: #57…..I wondered about that too. I seem to recall that the Mayor messed up on the deadlines to submit paperwork to get $10 million in matching funds for the Sunnyside Road Expansion Project. What exactly do those city workers do all day down at City Hall that causes them to miss critical deadlines….yet, if we miss the deadlines to pay our electric/water/garbage bills they can cut off service? Or if we miss the deadline to pay our taxes we get nailed? The government never has to abide by it’s own deadlines. How ironic that city government gets a taste of having to deal with a deadline (like the rest of us) and they fail miserably. Another example of just how and why government running the stimulus is going to have a hard time being successful.
So……as our Mayor knew….. funds were NOT awarded to individual requests, (by any individual , mayor , commissioner, etc.)
Do you still think he dropped the ball?