Regarding marriage and the differing opinions thereof.
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I read a comment a couple of weeks ago that made me stop and think. I believe that the comment was in the opinions page of the Post Register, but I’m not definite on that.
Anyway, the comment was regarding the gay marriage laws. The writer asked how the people wanting to allow gay marriage would feel if the law being proposed was to allow polygamist marriages.
I’m not trying to make a statement myself, I’m just curious how people feel about this and what you think the repercussions would be.
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Comments
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3 Gay unions are just fine with me, as long as they keep their loving out of public. WHAT? I also don’t want to see you and your heterosexual mate doing all that in front of my face!
Absolutely NOT to polygamy. No one but millionaires and billionaires can afford more than one wife and dozens of children. They only rich men dumb enough to have that many wives and kids don’t live in this Country, and that’s not just because it’s against the law. It’s also because our rich men are smart.
So who’s stuck with the bill when they can’t house, clothe, feed and pay the medical bills of their multiple wives and dozens of children? The TAX PAYERS who only have one spouse and only the number of children they can afford.
Absolutely NO to polygamy. Gay unions don’t depend on tax payers for survival. Polygamists do.
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3 0 Sorry this is so long, I went on a rant.
Marriage laws as we know them are one of the most serious violations of the concept of church/state separation of our time. It amazes me that not many people are concerned about it based on this ground. Marriage has always ben a religious function, and always will be. What the heck is the state doing getting involved in our religious affairs? I should state that I am gay, and no law or tax benefit is going to ever stop me from being with my partner, and no law or tax benefit will ever coerce me into making a lifelong commitment (thats what marriage is) to a woman. Anti gay marriage laws arent stopping anything from happening. I cant marry my partner but that doesnt stop me from living with him, sharing my life with him, having intercourse, or most importantly loving him. Whether it lawfull or not, every citizen has the right to THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, and nothing will stop people from doing the things they need to do to be happy, not even drug prohibition laws. It doesnt matter if there is a better way, or the actions dont lead to happiness, That is for each person to learn on their own.
The Mormons were forced to give up the practice of polygamy before they could join the union, and that act just goes right along with the religious persecution of the mormons at the time. I do not support Mormonisn in any way, however I believe that they were wronged and justice was never properly served. For thousands of years humans (and many other species of mammal) have been practicing polygamy. Whats the difference between a man who goes an sleeps with 20 different women and has kids with all of them and doesnt marry any of them, and a a many who can marry them and do what he can for them, as disfunctional as the situation may be, at least the father is around, or at least providing what he can, and has made commitments, and knows how many kids he has, and the kids know who there brothers and sisters are. The way it is now, they just unnoficially (not legally) get married in the temple and the mother are single moms. The dad has to pay more than he makes in child support and the state picks up the rest. why cant the whole family get tax credits. It’s a sticky situation i know and there are lots of opinions about this, but thats exactly my point, there are to many opinions about it to go around making laws about it, just like other aspects of religion.
The African American population was also wronged on the same grounds plus racism for many years. Many people believed they had a religiuos right to have slaves (i dont know how they were using them in religious ceremonies though) and there were religious bans against mixing races ( a commond from God to the jews) and that was codified into our laws.
Further more, Hinduism has a long history of religious ceremonies amounting to marriage for same sex couples and even the Roman Catholic church was guilty of performing ceremonies all over europe for same sex couples. Also it is believed by many even Jo Smith performed same sex ceremonies in the temple several times, as per documents purported to be actual church records. Many other religions around the world recognize same sex relationships in a positve manner. Why are they not allowed to perform these rights and ceremonies with the same legal recognition most christian churches do? Why did the Amish, Quackers, Puritans, etc. move to America? To escape religious persecution. So why cant other religions from around the world feel as comfortable here aswell.
summary:
Government, stay out of my personal life, let me make the decisions i feel necessary for my happiness, choose my own beliefs, lovers, foods, lifestyle and etc.
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3 5 Oy Vey!! The compost pile is gettin deep! Wow! Yeah, your first sentence pretty much hit the nail on the head.
The bottome line is: Marriage was designed to bring together a man and a woman, not a man and a man or woman/woman. I so sick and tired of hearing all this whining from gay people about how they “deserve” this and they “deserve” that. Get over it! You’re already doing everything you want with the person you want to be with, so be happy for what you DO have and ARE able to do instead of what you don’t have or can’t do.
And believe me, I don’t have a problem with your lifestyle. I have had over the years and currently do have a number of gay friends, ( & even a gay brother) so don’t call me a homophobe. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
I’m telling you the same thing I’ve always told them, “stop your bitchin!”. I’m sorry but in my opinion, gay people are about the whiniest people out there.
If you want to live with each other do it, but don’t expect the same rights as a heterosexual couple, because that’s not how marriage was originally set up.
I would also like you to produce these documents you claim exist regarding Joseph Smith performing same sex marriages. I’m sure you can’t because they just don’t exist.
As far as your “summary” goes: good luck with all that now that Obama has been voted into office.
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4 1 I could never understand how some people feel that their marriage is being threatened if we allow same sex marriages. I feel that everyone has the right to make their own decisions about their life mate, soul mate, or whatever you want to call it. To my understanding, it has been medically proven that being gay is not a choice but rather a way of life. And even if you refute that statement and say that it is a choice, so what. Everyone is entitled and has the right to make their own choices as far as I am concerned.
Wendyjo made some good points about polygamy. I don’t have a problem with polygamy either as long as it doesn’t involve underage girls/boys. I watched the special on “Lost Boys” and that was quite upsetting. If that was happening, and if young girls/boys were involved in the polygamous unions, then I would have to change my mind on the polygamous unions.
I am not gay nor am I involved in a polygamous relationship. I am just someone who wants to see people as happy as they can be; and I don’t feel it is my right or my place to tell them how to achieve this.
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3 0 I have been married for several decades now and whether gays have the right to marriage or not will have no bearing whatsoever on the sanctity of our own marriage.
I agree that was a good point from Wendyjo re: poygamy. Compost Lover made a good point or two mixed into the verbosity, particularly that there may be a social advantage to kids from many in knowing who their family is.
Good discussion so far.
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1 0 Ever notice how EVERY SINGLE TIME someone comes out with an anti gay rant like post #4 they qualify it with something like “I have gay friends.”
In the meantime, a funny video about gay marriage.
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1 0 I say ban marriage altogether and live with whoever you want to. We’ve got over a 50% divorce rate in this country so really, what’s the point?
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2 0 LOL Snack pack, you sure did give me a snack pack of goodies to devour here. I’ll just start where you did. Who “designed” marriage? and how can you be so sure of their intent. Furthermore, what authority gives this entity that is purported to have designed marriage the force of law? I couldn’t find any in the constitution last I checked. I am happy with what I have, as I made clear, and I was not whining about anything, yes there are some whiny gay people out there, but to imply that we all are is absurd. I dont care about marriage at all, and I’m not complaining at all about not being able to. It would be nice to be able to assist in making decisions about my partners health if he were ever in the hospital, or to have the right to inherit his things if he were to die, but that can all be taken care of other ways. And to be honest, we are in America, did you really just imply that one group of people have certain rights that another group of people doesnt’t? How absurd!!! Gay have not been convicted of anything and therefore should share in all rights. It was decided a long time ago that the gov’t should not recognize a difference between people based on their sex, we all have the same rights whether male or female, and if we were to go apply for a marriage license we would be denied because of our genetalia. I do however agree with CR67, with a 50% divorce rate I think straight people are doing a fine job of destroying their own families without our help. And we should at least ban the govt from recognizing marriage, its more likely to happen at least. And your claim that I cannot substantiate my claim about same sex marriage in mormonism: I suggest you read Same-Sex Dynamics Among Nineteenth-Century Americans By D. Michael Quinn starting on page 136, then go pull out your church library and read the writting of the founders of your (yes I am assuming, sorry if I offend) church. There is a copy on google books for your convenience. http://books.google.com/books?id=UXVj398JvnsC. I like my compost piles deep too, I guess we’ll just never get along.
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3 0 I’ve long held the opinion that the state needs to get out of the marriage business altogether. If churches & the people who attend them are so horrified at the prospect of two people of the same sex wanting to get married, let them have it. I’ll be the first in line to turn over my marriage certificate.
But civil unions of two adults are another matter. Those must be sanctioned by the state. When two people decide to get divorced, they don’t go to the church for a separation of property, they go to the state. They don’t go to the church to determine child custody & support payments, they go to the state.
As far as polygamy goes, that’s something the state can’t sanction. It would be impossible to determine the separation of properties, child custody issues, & support payments regarding the various permutations of a polygamous relationship. There’s just too many factors involved in order to codify it into law.
One can argue whether marriage began in the church or as a way of joining two families for monetary gain, and then the issue goes nowhere. You can have the term “marriage”, all of you who feel it’s a religious issue. Get the government out of it, and create civil unions for all.
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3 1 Snackpack,
“If you want to live with each other do it, but don’t expect the same rights as a heterosexual couple.”
Isn’t that what we said a few years back when inter-racial couples wanted to marry, and would you be so cavalier in your attitude if you were in the minority and seeking equality? I doubt it.
This is first and foremost a civil rights issue of no less importance than the racial and gender equality issues, of the not so distant past
These people aren’t whining any more than our colored and female citizens were when they sought parity.
Shame on you…you’re on the wrong side here.
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1 1 Taxes = the only thing that marriage is good for. That’s my opinion anyway. My wife felt that marriage was fulfilling, ring symbolism, family being there for the joining and all that good stuff. I told her that I didn’t ever plan on leaving her, that I didn’t want to incur the cost of marriage, but I would buy her a ring…and it just wasn’t good enough. So, in the end, I told her to give me the time and place, dress code, and a brief explanation of what I had to do, because I didn’t want anything else to do with it.
In the end, it turns out that we got gifts from several different people, and a honeymoon (see: getting away from the kids) courtesy of her parents, so that interested me as well.
We got married six months after we met, and we’ve now been married for three and a half years with no sign of a breakup.
I’d do it again in a heartbeat, and I’d be less of an ass about it too.
Ya’ll can keep the gay marriage controversy.
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0 1 Ahhh….to be young again!
I thought the exact same way you did Marcus. Nobody wants to get a divorce, but it happens. Never say never. Yep, she was the love of my life, soul-mate all that stuff!! 
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1 1 Wow snackpack, the depth of your ignorance is astonishing. “Some of my best friends are black, gay, jews(substitute your own classification here)”, usually heralds a justification for some pretty bigoted behavior and you don’t disappoint. What basis do you have for your “marriage was designed” crapolla? if this is a religious basis take it up with your pastor, but keep it out of the law.
You’ve heard of the constitution right? There’s this little clause about everyone being guaranteed “equal protection” under the law. How does this not apply to gays?
You talk about their lifestyle as if they have a choice being gay. I want you to reflect on this for minute. At what point did you decide not to be gay? You didn’t and neither did they. They shouldn’t be second class citizens over something they can’t control.
Please, segregating a class of people like you do is the same bigotry used to justify miscegenation laws, Jim Crow legislation, and slavery. It took a much darker turn in 1930’s Germany. What’s really ignorant is your screed that they should be denied equal protection because they’re “whiny”. Really quite odious.
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1 1 Now you’re opening up a whole other can of worms Sis, the gay choice thing. You can’t choose skin color, but you can choose which reproductive organs you allow to touch your own. If you ask me, some people feel the need to “fight for the right” so badly, that they place themselves in a “negative” (see: “I can’t get married because I’m gay!”) position to push the importance of whatever issue they can be on the controversial side of.
I do not believe that homosexuality is something that you’re born with. I do believe that some people think that they HAVE to be gay because something happened in their life that effected them profoundly. However, I think that a majority of the gay population made a choice, and a good chunk of that choice crowd is just hip to drama and the continuation of conflict.
Also, it’s now cool to be gay, thanks to Hollywood, so more people get sucked in to the craze. Yes, I’m putting this down to a fad. We’re going nuts over (essentially) a bunch of Tickle Me Elmos and Furby dolls…AGAIN.
Gays are people too. I say if they want to subject themselves to the many horrors that mark a successful marriage, they can go right ahead. However, when the assigned wife starts to get a bit pissy, and “Mr. Perfect” spends more time at the bar than he does at home, they best not be coming to me with their woes.
We tried to protect them!
I’m going to catch some (-) for this, I know it. (comment edited by site moderator, please refrain from swearing)
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2 1 I think we’ve had this “are gay people born that way” discussion before. It didn’t turn out well during that debate either. It’s a “we’ll have to agree to disagree” type of topic imo. I’ll leave it at that.
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0 2 Marcus,
I can only assume by your comments that you made the choice to be heterosexual. Is it a choice you have to affirm on a daily basis? Do you have to overcome the urge to co-mingle your reproductive equipment with that of others of the same sex? How is it that you are able to avoid being drawn in by the Hollywood crowd and their debauchery?
If sexual orientation can be dismissed as a fad and a craze that many get sucked into would you also liken it to an addiction? If so, perhaps the reason you feel compelled to portray the gay lifestyle as completely avoidable, is that you struggle with the urge to adopt it yourself. Perhaps your like the recovering alcoholic who broadcasts the news that he’s been sober for six years, nine months and five and a half days.
Me thinks you doth protest too much.
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0 2 You know, I’ve always wanted to try docking. It’s tempting to the say the least. Wouldn’t be a stretch to stick me in the gay bunch I don’t think. Hollywood men are too pretty for me though - I want to see some flannel.
Not sure I’d like to join the craze - I have a hard time living with the filth that I produce alone. Don’t want to duplicate that. As for addictions and broadcasts - I haven’t smoked a cigarette for 45 days, but this here chew is mighty fine. Yep, Big League Chew bubble gum.
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1 1 Not other can of worms Marcus. The central question on whether its fair to treat them as human beings instead of second class citizens. “You think” and “you do believe” but you don’t KNOW diddly. Chalking it up as a fad is ludicrous and demonstrates you don’t know too many gay people. But it begs the question you avoided. When did you decide you weren’t gay? When did you choose to have sex with women instead of men? You didn’t, did you? Its just seemingly where you gravitated making you believe that its the only natural way. But every gay person I know had the same experience. They knew since puberty that they wanted a sexual partner of the same sex.
There was a time when our society was so anti-gay that the entire branch of psychology treated it as a medical affliction. That position is widely discredited except among the very religious who somehow are threatened by allowing gay people the legal benefits of marriage despite the fact that the divorce rate is highest where evangelicals comprise the largest segment of the population. Its reprehensible that they continue to scapegoat gays for their inability to keep a happy home.
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0 1 Call me odd, but I made a decision not to have sex with anything long before I decided to have sex with a woman, and it could have easily been a man, had a man stolen my heart like my wife did. Don’t tell me where I’ve been or how I feel, you pompous prick. I was a confused teenager not too long ago, and a choice was made between the hole and the pole.
I’m not for restriction of anyone’s natural right to live and do what they need to survive. I think it’s a bit silly to give up your ability to reproduce, but I possess just enough romantic thought to understand that love can and does outweigh science occasionally. On the religious front, I’m not religious. Marriage, for me, was showing my wife that I’m capable of stepping down and allowing her to plot a course.
It took me a long time to stop being upset at the religious Sys, and from where I’m sitting, it looks like you need to do the same. Stop hating what you don’t understand, and accept the people are.
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1 1 What does “knowing gay people” have to do with anything sysyphus? Funny thing is, snackpak said a few posts back that they had gay friends and even went so far as to mention they had a family member that was gay, and yet you chastised that person as well.
Personally I think “it’s a choice” as well, but I’m not going to bother elaborating any more than that because as I noted earlier, this is not a debate that will go anywhere. This topic has been debated on a number of different posts on IFT and it never got anywhere. Nobody convinced anyone else of how they felt or what they believed in.
So once again, we’ll have to agree to disagree. (not that there’s anything wrong with that) 
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3 2 No heterosexual person has the right to speculate on being born gay. Let me just throw that out there right now. It doesn’t matter. That is not relevant to the gay marriage issue.
Let me follow up by saying that we all chose to live a certain lifestyle. When you accept a lifestyle or join a group of people with a stigma attached, you agree to accept society’s view of that group. Therefor choosing to live a gay lifestyle is accepting the prejudice that the average person throws out. None of us choose how we are born….we choose how we deal with and how much we are willing to conform.
I am not saying that gay is right or wrong, that’s not for me to judge. Living a gay lifestyle is just as much a choice as putting on a pair of socks or smoking your first cigarette. I have never met a gay man or woman that would disagree.
If we were serious about this issue, the people, NOT JUDGES or politicians would decide. I can only hope that we as citizens will be given the right to vote on this issue.
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0 3 My wife calls me a queer all the time.
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2 1 whatever happened to that show “Queer eye for the straight guy”? That show was awesome!
It’s like this: guys choose to be gay just as girls do. In the end it comes down to choice. In my opinion it because (as Marcus noted) something happened in their life that pushed them towards that lifestyle, or they were always intimidated by women and felt more comfortable with men. and visa versa with women. Except with women it’s usually because they hate men or they’ve been “wronged” by a man and so they assume all men are the same.
I’ve known guys that got so nervous around a woman to the point they started shaking and sweating profusely. Instead of confronting their fears headon, they’d rather turn tail and go the “other route”. It happens everyday, it doesnt mean you were born that way. But wait….surely someone will bring up the “other species are gay” issue?? I’m waiting for that classic statement. That’s my favorite.
I don’t have anything wrong with people being gay, but this whole issue is they want “certain rights” and they think they deserve them. that’s all this boils down to. Not whether or not Jonny was born that way, but whether he can walk down the aisle with Timmy and get all the perks a heterosexual couple get. Period.
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0 2 They don’t want certain rights, (comment edited by site moderator. please refrain from swearing)…they want equal rights, kinda like minority races did a few years ago.
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0 1 Guess we know who the gay folk are. someone touched a nerve. time to move onto another topic.
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2 1 Whats with the hostilities? I apologize if I offended anyone, that wasn’t my intention. But if we’re getting technical here, it would be considered “certain rights”. They already have “some” rights and what their looking for is certain rights. And the “certain rights” I speak of are pretty much all monetary. Can you argue differently? (perhaps in a more civil manner)
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1 0 Sorry I touched a nerve Marcus, but if you write something expecting shit you shouldn’t gripe when you get it. There seems to be a lot of confusion of what legal benefits of marriage are being denied here. We’re talking automatic tax exemptions and write-offs, the right to attend to your spouse in the hospital, the right to legal succession under the rights of intestacy, the right to put your spouse on your health insurance. These benefits are provided at law to promote marriage. Yet they’re denied to committed monogamous people in the gay community. Thus this plebiscite in California is the majority telling gays you’re different and not worthy of these benefits. It makes no sense to me why as a society we would discourage committed monogamous relationships in the gay community. That just promotes the promiscuity so many deplore. And basic civil rights should never be put to a vote. We’d still have seperate but equal if that were the case. This is all in the California Supreme Court opinion.
I for one have known I was hetero since puberty. Marcus, I can’t deny the existence of bisexuals but I don’t think its a result of confusion, just that they have the ability to swing both ways. I do not have that ability or desire and never have. But I’m not going to use the power of government to deny rights to others that I enjoy. That’s what it comes down to, and why its not a matter of allowing a majority to decide the matter. Its basic fairness.
Lost you are the most aptly named poster I’ve seen in while. 
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1 1 Oh, I see. You’re talking “government rights”, not natural rights.
I’d gladly give up all of these “government rights” (wrongs in my opinion) in exchange for the ability to exercise my reasonable natural rights without interference, and I would think just about everybody else would want the same.
I’m not disagreeing with you Sis, haven’t been at all in this discussion…we’ve just been talking two different topics ;).
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0 0 I know several so called bisexuals. Every one of them is actually a hetero who prefers guys but isn’t opposed to a doing it with a female for the fun of it. Thats called choice. What isn’t a choice is the predominant attraction which in each case is hetero.
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I personally don’t care if people want to be polygamists so long as children aren’t being forced into it. But government benefits should only extend to one spouse.
In my world the government would get out of the marriage business altogether and would instead only issue civil unions which would be open to persons of any orientation. But you can only have a civil union with one person.
Marriage would be left up to churches but the “marriage” would be only of symbolic value. No church would be forced to do a marriage but no law would forbid a marriage between gays either since marriage would only be symbolic.