Obama - the 2nd coming?

The dem convention was fantastic. I had two friends there as national delegates. Pretty awesome! Perhaps I’ll comment more on your other points later … no time now.

Love your post WendyJogh! I had to take a second to compose myself before i started writing.
I feel the same way. How in the world is he supposed to do all of the things he’s promised? Well, let me give you “dems” a clue. He’s NOT! Like all the candidates before him, he’s up there promising the American people the world, when he knows damn well he won’t be able to keep a single promise. It’s all smoke and mirrors and I for one didn’t fall for it. What I thought was absolutely classic, was how he would have the cameras pan over the audience members who were crying or had tears welling up in their eyes. OMG!! Do we honestly have that many naive’ people in this country who actually believed the garbage that came spewing out of this guys mouth? I’m sorry, I’m not trying to put down those of you that are democrats or liberals, but if you guys believe even half of what he said last night then I’ve got some beachfront property in Blackfoot for sale for anybody who’s interested.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure McCain will be out there selling us a dream as well when it’s his turn. I just can’t imagine he’ll lay it on quite as thick as Obama did.

In most years I’d probably vote for McCain but after eight years of Bush I think we need a democratic president to undo the mess the republicans have made of the budget, civil liberties, and our world standing.

CR67, you do realize that Obama has no control over the television feed for the convention, don’t you?

And I’ll suggest to you the same thing I suggested before: go to Obama’s website to see his detailed plans for our future. The answers you seek are there! Enjoy!

Hi, CR67…
Bless your cynical ol’ heart! Do you really think that Obama directed those cameras? It really never crossed your mind that the networks might have done it all on their own, just like they do with all big events? Do you really think those tears were phony?

Obama has stuff on his website that lays out his plans in good detail.

But for just an example of how to pay for a lot of it, just look to the Iraq occupation. (I say occupation because we won the war in 6 weeks after the Iraqi army surrendered. Everything since then has been done while we occupy Iraq).

I’m not sure exactly how much this eternal mess is costing us citizens. I’m pretty sure nobody knows, except for those privy to the darkest black budgets. We’re in it now for around 15 trillion (Trillion. TRILLION) dollars so far and still counting. And I guessed on the low side.

When he started the war, our beloved President dumped our economy into a bucket of concrete up to our knees and dumped it overboard, pretty much like Katrina but bigger. And worse. A lot bigger, and a lot worse. Lasting a lot longer, too.

It’s a testament to the American citizens, our determination and our resilient nature that we were able to keep our heads above water for as long as we did, but we’re all going under now… even the strongest can only fight that enormous weight for so long.

We are paying the bills for 3 armies in Iraq- our army, their army, and the other army that Blackwater runs which is bigger than theirs and almost as big as ours.

And McCain is full prepared to stay there for 50 years. Swell idea. Long before that 50 year timeline runs out, the United States will be just a bigger version of Bosnia.

That’s sure the thing I want to leave for my kids, because they’ll really have fun choosing food or fuel- I know I’m having lotsa fun doing it, and a lifetime of it will toughen up tose little slackers.

Lotsa folks with perfectly sound minds are calling Sen. John- ‘McSame’ these days. I think it refers to his satisfaction with Bush’s wonderful solutions.

If it pleasures you to give McCain a vote, that’s ok by me, but I’ve had all the Republican pleasuring I can stand. If Obama can get half the stuff done he promised, that’ll be good enough for me, and that would be twice as much as McCain could ever deliver.

So- what other Republican successes would you like to discuss? Did you hold any money in that bank by the river that crashed? D’ja get any back?

Got any ideas on how to fix things of your own?

Oh yeah, that’s a great post boomer. Good job!

Did you know there’s now more private contractors in Iraq than there are US troops? What a racket…..

Do we wanna get into a count match, all those promises Obama made in his speech, vs all the promises McCain will make in his speech?

Similar to the Laun Cook/Sheriff thread, the idea is that the challenger thinks the current administration is not handling things correctly so they want to make some promises that things will change. McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time these last 8 years, so I see him as basically the incumbent…and I’m skeptical that he represents change. I liked him better in 2000.

I am cynical, so I’m not expecting much, no matter who gets in. But so far I’m voting for Obama/Biden because I’m feeling more change will come from their side of the fence, than the McCain/Palin side.

Ooh_Child, sorry if you took offense to any thing I said. I didn’t mention anything about McCain or Obama. The only thing I mentioned was about your patriotism remark. That is my opionion and no matter who is voted in as President my values on Patriotism stand. And by the way, I find your final remark, “Now, let’s have them debate the issues, not who can salute the flag fastest” un-called for. Lighten up a bit and enjoy the difference of oppinions that we have and can share.

Don’t worry about giving me a thumbs down. The thumb vote thing doesn’t mean anything to me. I’m not here to win a popularity contest. If anyone feels my comments here or on any other topic deserve a thumb down, than have at it. Whatever makes people feel better about themselves. All you have to do is look at some of the comments I’ve gotten thumbs down on to see how ridiculous it is. It certainly won’t make me stop sharing my opinion on this site. Personally I think the thumbs are unnecessary, but that’s just me. Judging people on their opinions is just that, it’s judgemental and it’s sophmoric imo. I mean we can all make up our own minds as to whether or not a comment was helpful or we enjoyed it or not. But at the same time I understand that some people crave the approval of others and like to see it with a gold star, or in this case a thumbs up, and that’s fine too.
At the end of the day it’s still all a matter of opinion.

Hi, hmmm…
I think CR67 was responding to Nemesis’ post #14 with his comments in #17. Forum discussions often don’t move as fast as we would like to think.

Hey- if CR doesn’t want to answer, that’s OK. I have is no problem with folks wanting to keep their politics private. Some folks have trouble with going deeply into self-examination, but it’s something I do all the time. For me, the more aspects I get on a question, the better it is, because I learn more.

But I also believe that this election is an exceptional test of our beliefs. It is one where old habits, family traditions, and other stuff that guides a lot of voting should be pitched this time, in my view, and everyone should vote with as much wisdom, judgement and faith in themselves as possible.

For me, the choice this election is obvious. I’m simply very curious about other’s thinking, and I figure their reasons might be as good as I think mine are, so I’d like to hear them. As far as the topic goes, I’m finished- I said my piece, and I’m content to just read from here on.

Boomer your comment “Some folks have trouble with going deeply into self-examination, ” is so true.

The reason for my post - I’ve seen probably six posts from the same two people crying about the thumbs down they are getting. So I can’t help but wonder if it really isn’t that important to them to be failing the popularity contest.

It’s pretty clear to me who to vote for as well. Several of the posts from the opposing parties here have merely exacerbated that opinion. There is something about that “what’s right and okay for me isn’t right or okay for you” attitude that I just can’t seem to swallow.

CR67 #12, what is melodramatic about shedding a few tears? Everyone at one point or another has undoubtedly shed a few tears here and there. That’s not a bad thing is it? Women especially cry easier then men do simply because by today’s standards, “Real men don’t cry”. But that’s changing and we all know that real men do cry. So the real men usually do it behind closed doors where people won’t make fun of them.

Kind of ironic Wendy…..he claims McCain is just an evil Bush hack. Perhaps people should be reminded that Obama is just another Jimmy Carter.

Recall that Carter killed nuclear (which Obama will also do). Carter tried windfall profit taxes and it killed exploration and supply and allowed us to be held hostage to OPEC. Obama wants windfall profit taxes as well.

Carter despised the military and treated it terribly. Obama doesn’t have much love for the military either and probably sees it as a necessary evil.

Carter got pushed around by the Iranians and allowed the Ayatollah to hold Americans for 444 days. Simple diplomacy did nothing to fix the problem and trying to talk to our enemies did nothing to get those Americans back home. Obama really thinks talking to those eggheads is going to make a difference?

Radical Islam became stronger under Democratic Presidents Carter and Clinton than at any other points in history. Clinton ignored Bin Laden when Sudan offered him up. Carter ignored the Ayatollah and buried his head in the sand.

All of the so called “experts” like Biden (who has been on the Foreign Relations Committee for decades) have just continued to ignore problems like radical islam. You don’t ignore evil and hope it goes away. Carter and Obama would have the United Nations take more action. That type of policy is dangerous and naive. Millions of citizens in Darfur and Rwanda will tell you that. Even Mr. Bush has been partially co-opted by people who believe the UN should be consulted and approval sought before taking on evil regimes. It is a terrible policy that has not made the world safer. So, the next time Barack Obama says we can’t afford another 4 years of Bush, remind yourself that we can’t afford another 4 years of Jimmy Carter either.

John McCain just turned 72. If he’s elected, he’ll be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And consider this: after months of slamming Barack Obama for “inexperience,” here’s who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.

Huh? How is that even a responsible choice.

Some factual background on Ms. Palin:

* She was elected Alaska’s governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage.

* She has no foreign policy experience. (Other than she lives up north, next to Russia!)

* Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

* She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.

* Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.

* She’s doesn’t think humans are the cause of climate change.

* She’s solidly in line with John McCain’s “Big Oil first” energy policy. She’s pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won’t be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.

How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.

As one Alaskan native put it:

I think she’s far too inexperienced to be in this position. I’m all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn’t done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain’s part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he’ll get our vote by putting “A Woman” in that position.—Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK

Easterner, don’t forget that McCain has had his share of scandals as well. He was one of the Keating Five back in the 80’s and was lucky to escape charges. He’s also the only one of the four to cheat on his crippled wife and then trade her in for a newer, younger, less crippled model.

I don’t get it…..someone please explain to me how we seem to think all these “experienced” politicians that have gotten elected for over and over again have done such a great job. If one defines experience it would seem that one that has experience should use that experience for the best possible result. We don’t see that much in politics anymore and we complain that people that could or would do a good job are pushed out of the process because they don’t have enough money, the right connections, or they aren’t willing to make shady back room deals to get there.

Experience & Judgment = Good result? Not always the case. Too many politicians that have spent all their lives seeking power and they are willing to do near almost anything to attain it and keep it-including making poor decisions that line their pockets and keep them in office while the country suffers.

Our present members of elected government certainly cannot be described in terms of a representative government; by that test they are hopelessly unrepresentative. Women, to take the most striking disparity first, constitute 51% of the adult population but comprise only 4.8% of the present House of Representatives. Blacks, 12% of the population, comprise only 4.5% of the House; Spanish-speaking persons, 6% of the population, are similarly underrepresented with 2.5% of the House. About half of the electorate, which does not vote, cannot readily be considered to be represented at all. The House is comprised almost entirely of white, well-to-do males - an enormous disproportion of them lawyers (46% in 1983, though lawyers make up only a tiny fraction of our population).

Many people, including McCain himself, throw around the argument about experience being important. Obama and other Democrats raise the question that Palin would not be competent to deal with the complex issues of modern government. This objection reflects the feeling, which is widespread although it may not be founded in reality, that our rulers are (or at any rate should be) “better than us”. This is a large factor in the acquiescence of citizens in their own disempowerment. Obama’s own success blunts some of the experience argument on it’s face.. The election process as practiced in our media age rewards candidates who have congenial TV images, have a convincing verbal delivery, and are adept at sensing transient public emotional moods, i.e Obama can give a good speech. These qualities do not necessarily correlate with either intelligence or responsible political leadership.

Pundits always look for the negative in every political situation instead of viewing this as a breath of fresh air from the stale politics that Americans are tired of. It is very important for our politicians to have a more realistic sense of the life of the country and its pressing problems, and Mrs. Palin has a more varied collective experience to draw upon in which to make decisions that are in the best interest of the country.
Of the four major candidates for office, Mrs. Palin is uniquely suited to be in good position to make decisions that will positively effect the lives of everyday Americans.

It is fine time for Americans to stop complaining and do something that keeps the professional type of politicians out of office. McCain has bucked the system for decades while in office. Palin has bucked it as well. I don’t see the Democratic members having both sides of the aisle concerned about them rocking the boat.

If you want a good indicator if someone is doing their job, look at who they have “angry” at them. McCain and Palin have both Democrats and Republicans upset at them……It seems to me that if you stand on principle and make ethical decisions without regard to personal gain, most likely you won’t make most folks in power happy. Take the example of a police officer. The officer(s) that are out serving warrants and making arrests are doing their job. They may not be popular but they are doing what we expect them be doing.

So, experience is a double-edged sword. Many years ago, there was the old saying “Throw the Bums Out”. Experience was looked upon as a negative. Yet, we keep voting the same “experienced” bums in. That seems to be the definition of insanity, continue the same behaviors and expect different results.

So where do you get the information that she isn’t interested in foreign policy? Perhaps you forget her son is deploying to Iraq in September? Perhaps you forget that she negotiated with Canada on the 40 billion dollar natural gas pipeline. Perhaps you forget that she has been involved in interpretation and utilization of fishing rights in international waters as Alaska is close to Russia……..nah, I guess she is just not interested in those kind of things. Perhaps she just wants to stay home and bake cookies and hold tea parties.

The two places Obama will find money for the things he wants to do:
Cut Military spending, this is the largest source of government spending.

By not extending the Bush Tax cuts to the Rich.

This can easily pay for all sorts of wonderful things, like education, health care, science, etc

#36
I would argue that Obama’s education (Columbia Political Science and Harvard Law — constitutional law at that) and life experience (Obama has lived his past four years under the unforgiving & ever intrusive microscope of the national spotlight) completely outdistances Palin’s (Bachelors Degree in Journalism from University of Idaho) in terms of readiness for leadership.

I would also contend that for all the fussing about Obama’s “executive experience”, consider that Obama has spent the past 18 months leading one of the most well-organized & brilliant campaigns in history of politics. In my book, that is “executive experience. What he has accomplished in terms of how he’s motivated, organized, delegated, and disciplined is pretty phenomenal.

Through the primary process, Obama was chosen by millions of voters who determined that his qualifications were superior to many other terrific candidates. Pallin was not, and neither was Biden. These voters recognized that Obama has the wisdom and fortitude to be a great leader. The same could be argued about the selection of John McCain (though I’d probably not be the one arguing that point!).

So ….. perhaps we should all keep in mind that Obama is not running against Palin. Biden is running against Palin, and Obama is running against McCain. And I, for one, can’t wait for the first couple of Biden/Pallin debates! And also for the first McCain/Obama debates. I’m almost giddy with anticipation.

I liked how Obama talked the other day how the trickle down economics of Reagan were discredited. How the idea if you just give more to rich people it will trickle down to the poor folks. His premise is flawed however. He assumes that you are “giving” something to the upper income people and business owners. He has it all wrong. It’s not the government “giving” anything to these people. The government is in the business of taking wealth in the form of taxes–not creating wealth.

Business owners and shareholders create wealth and create jobs. So, when Obama talks about giving tax ing the wealthy it is not about wealth creation-he is talking about income redistribution. The taxation he is talking about is also indexed to one’s income and does not have protections for middle class voters he is courting. That is how he would govern and that is how he plans to get elected–by taking from those that create wealth and jobs. Jimmy Carter tried that approach too…..windfall profits taxes and high personal income taxes as a social policy tool to achieve political results. It was a disaster. Carter, like Obama, may be well intentioned by repeating the same mistakes of the past is nothing any of us should look forward to or want the country to experience again. So, what is really discredited is the notion that we can and should tax our way out of problems confronting us. Esentially, he is shelving economic and political freedom in the name of the common good. Kind of like global warming—no questioning allowed. The matter is settled. Right now we work January to May to pay taxes to the government. If Obama is elected–and no check on the Democratic controlled Congress exists–look forward to working January to June or July to pay taxes.

Does this sound good? Maybe we should tell Michael Phelps (who won 8 gold medals at Bejing) that because some poor athletes from Lichtenstein or Austria didn’t win a medal that he is required to give up 4 medals so they can be distributed to others who were less fortunate than him?

Doesn’t seem too fair? Well, Phelps did train and work hard to excel. It is a shame that he has to give up some of his hard earned medals. Yeah, a real shame…..just like typical Democratic Tax Policy and Mr. Obama’s grand scheme to take from hard working people that excel. It is a disaster waiting to happen. Let’s call it Hurricane Obama!

Thanks for the response egalitarian - I just believe you will have to regulate the volcanoes before we can really get our arms around the issue… I’ll close on this point - climate change is 100’s of 1000000’s of years old - and yes, we as the human race do add to the problem (that is scientifically proven) - but regulating the U.S. by itself will do nothing more than kill our economy and not resolve the problem - its a global issue.

Bundy - GREAT POST! - great analogy. Those of you who are buying into this Obama-Carter plan, step back and look at it with an open mind. Remember there is no magical line where the taxation stops - if you work hard and get promoted or start your own business - you too will pay more - doesn’t that sound great, you work hard, so you can make less…

I know it will never happen, but I think it would be a wonderful exercise to have every employee pay their taxes monthly for one year - actually write the check to the state and federal government, instead of having it witheld. Think about what Bundy posted - imagine writing out a check for 40-50% of what you make every month and sending it to the IRS! Don’t get angry because you disagree with my post - just imagine doing that…

Sickening isn’t it!

I’m not one of these people that support anybody just because they belong to one party or the other - Bush certainly didn’t do a very good job - even though he had a great opportunity. Point being - don’t vote with emotion — vote with a level-head and vote for the person who will change things, not just to change them, but make the changes that will help the U.S. get back in the race.

I’ll ignore your comment, Anon. Given that you gave no proof we only have your opinion.

Alex had some good answers in #35, easterner et. al.

would everyone agree to pay 50%? not just the upper working classes (and as I pointed out, the truly “elite” would be immune in any event)? if everyone in the country agreed to pay a full 1/2 of their gross, I would agree to it. . .

won’t happen, not in this country.

moreover, I think, once again, everyone is conveniently forgetting who spends the largest chunk of taxpayer money. . . .it isn’t the President, it is that pesky Democrat-controlled, pork-bloated thing called Congress!!!

So if you are going to place blame, let’s put at least half of it on the shoulders of our elected officials in Congress. . .