Obama - the 2nd coming?

The dem convention was fantastic. I had two friends there as national delegates. Pretty awesome! Perhaps I’ll comment more on your other points later … no time now.

Love your post WendyJogh! I had to take a second to compose myself before i started writing.
I feel the same way. How in the world is he supposed to do all of the things he’s promised? Well, let me give you “dems” a clue. He’s NOT! Like all the candidates before him, he’s up there promising the American people the world, when he knows damn well he won’t be able to keep a single promise. It’s all smoke and mirrors and I for one didn’t fall for it. What I thought was absolutely classic, was how he would have the cameras pan over the audience members who were crying or had tears welling up in their eyes. OMG!! Do we honestly have that many naive’ people in this country who actually believed the garbage that came spewing out of this guys mouth? I’m sorry, I’m not trying to put down those of you that are democrats or liberals, but if you guys believe even half of what he said last night then I’ve got some beachfront property in Blackfoot for sale for anybody who’s interested.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure McCain will be out there selling us a dream as well when it’s his turn. I just can’t imagine he’ll lay it on quite as thick as Obama did.

In most years I’d probably vote for McCain but after eight years of Bush I think we need a democratic president to undo the mess the republicans have made of the budget, civil liberties, and our world standing.

CR67, you do realize that Obama has no control over the television feed for the convention, don’t you?

And I’ll suggest to you the same thing I suggested before: go to Obama’s website to see his detailed plans for our future. The answers you seek are there! Enjoy!

Hi, CR67…
Bless your cynical ol’ heart! Do you really think that Obama directed those cameras? It really never crossed your mind that the networks might have done it all on their own, just like they do with all big events? Do you really think those tears were phony?

Obama has stuff on his website that lays out his plans in good detail.

But for just an example of how to pay for a lot of it, just look to the Iraq occupation. (I say occupation because we won the war in 6 weeks after the Iraqi army surrendered. Everything since then has been done while we occupy Iraq).

I’m not sure exactly how much this eternal mess is costing us citizens. I’m pretty sure nobody knows, except for those privy to the darkest black budgets. We’re in it now for around 15 trillion (Trillion. TRILLION) dollars so far and still counting. And I guessed on the low side.

When he started the war, our beloved President dumped our economy into a bucket of concrete up to our knees and dumped it overboard, pretty much like Katrina but bigger. And worse. A lot bigger, and a lot worse. Lasting a lot longer, too.

It’s a testament to the American citizens, our determination and our resilient nature that we were able to keep our heads above water for as long as we did, but we’re all going under now… even the strongest can only fight that enormous weight for so long.

We are paying the bills for 3 armies in Iraq- our army, their army, and the other army that Blackwater runs which is bigger than theirs and almost as big as ours.

And McCain is full prepared to stay there for 50 years. Swell idea. Long before that 50 year timeline runs out, the United States will be just a bigger version of Bosnia.

That’s sure the thing I want to leave for my kids, because they’ll really have fun choosing food or fuel- I know I’m having lotsa fun doing it, and a lifetime of it will toughen up tose little slackers.

Lotsa folks with perfectly sound minds are calling Sen. John- ‘McSame’ these days. I think it refers to his satisfaction with Bush’s wonderful solutions.

If it pleasures you to give McCain a vote, that’s ok by me, but I’ve had all the Republican pleasuring I can stand. If Obama can get half the stuff done he promised, that’ll be good enough for me, and that would be twice as much as McCain could ever deliver.

So- what other Republican successes would you like to discuss? Did you hold any money in that bank by the river that crashed? D’ja get any back?

Got any ideas on how to fix things of your own?

Oh yeah, that’s a great post boomer. Good job!

Did you know there’s now more private contractors in Iraq than there are US troops? What a racket…..

Do we wanna get into a count match, all those promises Obama made in his speech, vs all the promises McCain will make in his speech?

Similar to the Laun Cook/Sheriff thread, the idea is that the challenger thinks the current administration is not handling things correctly so they want to make some promises that things will change. McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time these last 8 years, so I see him as basically the incumbent…and I’m skeptical that he represents change. I liked him better in 2000.

I am cynical, so I’m not expecting much, no matter who gets in. But so far I’m voting for Obama/Biden because I’m feeling more change will come from their side of the fence, than the McCain/Palin side.

Ooh_Child, sorry if you took offense to any thing I said. I didn’t mention anything about McCain or Obama. The only thing I mentioned was about your patriotism remark. That is my opionion and no matter who is voted in as President my values on Patriotism stand. And by the way, I find your final remark, “Now, let’s have them debate the issues, not who can salute the flag fastest” un-called for. Lighten up a bit and enjoy the difference of oppinions that we have and can share.

Don’t worry about giving me a thumbs down. The thumb vote thing doesn’t mean anything to me. I’m not here to win a popularity contest. If anyone feels my comments here or on any other topic deserve a thumb down, than have at it. Whatever makes people feel better about themselves. All you have to do is look at some of the comments I’ve gotten thumbs down on to see how ridiculous it is. It certainly won’t make me stop sharing my opinion on this site. Personally I think the thumbs are unnecessary, but that’s just me. Judging people on their opinions is just that, it’s judgemental and it’s sophmoric imo. I mean we can all make up our own minds as to whether or not a comment was helpful or we enjoyed it or not. But at the same time I understand that some people crave the approval of others and like to see it with a gold star, or in this case a thumbs up, and that’s fine too.
At the end of the day it’s still all a matter of opinion.

Hi, hmmm…
I think CR67 was responding to Nemesis’ post #14 with his comments in #17. Forum discussions often don’t move as fast as we would like to think.

Hey- if CR doesn’t want to answer, that’s OK. I have is no problem with folks wanting to keep their politics private. Some folks have trouble with going deeply into self-examination, but it’s something I do all the time. For me, the more aspects I get on a question, the better it is, because I learn more.

But I also believe that this election is an exceptional test of our beliefs. It is one where old habits, family traditions, and other stuff that guides a lot of voting should be pitched this time, in my view, and everyone should vote with as much wisdom, judgement and faith in themselves as possible.

For me, the choice this election is obvious. I’m simply very curious about other’s thinking, and I figure their reasons might be as good as I think mine are, so I’d like to hear them. As far as the topic goes, I’m finished- I said my piece, and I’m content to just read from here on.

Boomer your comment “Some folks have trouble with going deeply into self-examination, ” is so true.

The reason for my post - I’ve seen probably six posts from the same two people crying about the thumbs down they are getting. So I can’t help but wonder if it really isn’t that important to them to be failing the popularity contest.

It’s pretty clear to me who to vote for as well. Several of the posts from the opposing parties here have merely exacerbated that opinion. There is something about that “what’s right and okay for me isn’t right or okay for you” attitude that I just can’t seem to swallow.

CR67 #12, what is melodramatic about shedding a few tears? Everyone at one point or another has undoubtedly shed a few tears here and there. That’s not a bad thing is it? Women especially cry easier then men do simply because by today’s standards, “Real men don’t cry”. But that’s changing and we all know that real men do cry. So the real men usually do it behind closed doors where people won’t make fun of them.

Kind of ironic Wendy…..he claims McCain is just an evil Bush hack. Perhaps people should be reminded that Obama is just another Jimmy Carter.

Recall that Carter killed nuclear (which Obama will also do). Carter tried windfall profit taxes and it killed exploration and supply and allowed us to be held hostage to OPEC. Obama wants windfall profit taxes as well.

Carter despised the military and treated it terribly. Obama doesn’t have much love for the military either and probably sees it as a necessary evil.

Carter got pushed around by the Iranians and allowed the Ayatollah to hold Americans for 444 days. Simple diplomacy did nothing to fix the problem and trying to talk to our enemies did nothing to get those Americans back home. Obama really thinks talking to those eggheads is going to make a difference?

Radical Islam became stronger under Democratic Presidents Carter and Clinton than at any other points in history. Clinton ignored Bin Laden when Sudan offered him up. Carter ignored the Ayatollah and buried his head in the sand.

All of the so called “experts” like Biden (who has been on the Foreign Relations Committee for decades) have just continued to ignore problems like radical islam. You don’t ignore evil and hope it goes away. Carter and Obama would have the United Nations take more action. That type of policy is dangerous and naive. Millions of citizens in Darfur and Rwanda will tell you that. Even Mr. Bush has been partially co-opted by people who believe the UN should be consulted and approval sought before taking on evil regimes. It is a terrible policy that has not made the world safer. So, the next time Barack Obama says we can’t afford another 4 years of Bush, remind yourself that we can’t afford another 4 years of Jimmy Carter either.

John McCain just turned 72. If he’s elected, he’ll be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And consider this: after months of slamming Barack Obama for “inexperience,” here’s who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.

Huh? How is that even a responsible choice.

Some factual background on Ms. Palin:

* She was elected Alaska’s governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage.

* She has no foreign policy experience. (Other than she lives up north, next to Russia!)

* Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

* She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.

* Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.

* She’s doesn’t think humans are the cause of climate change.

* She’s solidly in line with John McCain’s “Big Oil first” energy policy. She’s pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won’t be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.

How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.

As one Alaskan native put it:

I think she’s far too inexperienced to be in this position. I’m all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn’t done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain’s part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he’ll get our vote by putting “A Woman” in that position.—Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK

Easterner, don’t forget that McCain has had his share of scandals as well. He was one of the Keating Five back in the 80’s and was lucky to escape charges. He’s also the only one of the four to cheat on his crippled wife and then trade her in for a newer, younger, less crippled model.

I don’t get it…..someone please explain to me how we seem to think all these “experienced” politicians that have gotten elected for over and over again have done such a great job. If one defines experience it would seem that one that has experience should use that experience for the best possible result. We don’t see that much in politics anymore and we complain that people that could or would do a good job are pushed out of the process because they don’t have enough money, the right connections, or they aren’t willing to make shady back room deals to get there.

Experience & Judgment = Good result? Not always the case. Too many politicians that have spent all their lives seeking power and they are willing to do near almost anything to attain it and keep it-including making poor decisions that line their pockets and keep them in office while the country suffers.

Our present members of elected government certainly cannot be described in terms of a representative government; by that test they are hopelessly unrepresentative. Women, to take the most striking disparity first, constitute 51% of the adult population but comprise only 4.8% of the present House of Representatives. Blacks, 12% of the population, comprise only 4.5% of the House; Spanish-speaking persons, 6% of the population, are similarly underrepresented with 2.5% of the House. About half of the electorate, which does not vote, cannot readily be considered to be represented at all. The House is comprised almost entirely of white, well-to-do males - an enormous disproportion of them lawyers (46% in 1983, though lawyers make up only a tiny fraction of our population).

Many people, including McCain himself, throw around the argument about experience being important. Obama and other Democrats raise the question that Palin would not be competent to deal with the complex issues of modern government. This objection reflects the feeling, which is widespread although it may not be founded in reality, that our rulers are (or at any rate should be) “better than us”. This is a large factor in the acquiescence of citizens in their own disempowerment. Obama’s own success blunts some of the experience argument on it’s face.. The election process as practiced in our media age rewards candidates who have congenial TV images, have a convincing verbal delivery, and are adept at sensing transient public emotional moods, i.e Obama can give a good speech. These qualities do not necessarily correlate with either intelligence or responsible political leadership.

Pundits always look for the negative in every political situation instead of viewing this as a breath of fresh air from the stale politics that Americans are tired of. It is very important for our politicians to have a more realistic sense of the life of the country and its pressing problems, and Mrs. Palin has a more varied collective experience to draw upon in which to make decisions that are in the best interest of the country.
Of the four major candidates for office, Mrs. Palin is uniquely suited to be in good position to make decisions that will positively effect the lives of everyday Americans.

It is fine time for Americans to stop complaining and do something that keeps the professional type of politicians out of office. McCain has bucked the system for decades while in office. Palin has bucked it as well. I don’t see the Democratic members having both sides of the aisle concerned about them rocking the boat.

If you want a good indicator if someone is doing their job, look at who they have “angry” at them. McCain and Palin have both Democrats and Republicans upset at them……It seems to me that if you stand on principle and make ethical decisions without regard to personal gain, most likely you won’t make most folks in power happy. Take the example of a police officer. The officer(s) that are out serving warrants and making arrests are doing their job. They may not be popular but they are doing what we expect them be doing.

So, experience is a double-edged sword. Many years ago, there was the old saying “Throw the Bums Out”. Experience was looked upon as a negative. Yet, we keep voting the same “experienced” bums in. That seems to be the definition of insanity, continue the same behaviors and expect different results.

So where do you get the information that she isn’t interested in foreign policy? Perhaps you forget her son is deploying to Iraq in September? Perhaps you forget that she negotiated with Canada on the 40 billion dollar natural gas pipeline. Perhaps you forget that she has been involved in interpretation and utilization of fishing rights in international waters as Alaska is close to Russia……..nah, I guess she is just not interested in those kind of things. Perhaps she just wants to stay home and bake cookies and hold tea parties.

The two places Obama will find money for the things he wants to do:
Cut Military spending, this is the largest source of government spending.

By not extending the Bush Tax cuts to the Rich.

This can easily pay for all sorts of wonderful things, like education, health care, science, etc

#36
I would argue that Obama’s education (Columbia Political Science and Harvard Law — constitutional law at that) and life experience (Obama has lived his past four years under the unforgiving & ever intrusive microscope of the national spotlight) completely outdistances Palin’s (Bachelors Degree in Journalism from University of Idaho) in terms of readiness for leadership.

I would also contend that for all the fussing about Obama’s “executive experience”, consider that Obama has spent the past 18 months leading one of the most well-organized & brilliant campaigns in history of politics. In my book, that is “executive experience. What he has accomplished in terms of how he’s motivated, organized, delegated, and disciplined is pretty phenomenal.

Through the primary process, Obama was chosen by millions of voters who determined that his qualifications were superior to many other terrific candidates. Pallin was not, and neither was Biden. These voters recognized that Obama has the wisdom and fortitude to be a great leader. The same could be argued about the selection of John McCain (though I’d probably not be the one arguing that point!).

So ….. perhaps we should all keep in mind that Obama is not running against Palin. Biden is running against Palin, and Obama is running against McCain. And I, for one, can’t wait for the first couple of Biden/Pallin debates! And also for the first McCain/Obama debates. I’m almost giddy with anticipation.

I liked how Obama talked the other day how the trickle down economics of Reagan were discredited. How the idea if you just give more to rich people it will trickle down to the poor folks. His premise is flawed however. He assumes that you are “giving” something to the upper income people and business owners. He has it all wrong. It’s not the government “giving” anything to these people. The government is in the business of taking wealth in the form of taxes–not creating wealth.

Business owners and shareholders create wealth and create jobs. So, when Obama talks about giving tax ing the wealthy it is not about wealth creation-he is talking about income redistribution. The taxation he is talking about is also indexed to one’s income and does not have protections for middle class voters he is courting. That is how he would govern and that is how he plans to get elected–by taking from those that create wealth and jobs. Jimmy Carter tried that approach too…..windfall profits taxes and high personal income taxes as a social policy tool to achieve political results. It was a disaster. Carter, like Obama, may be well intentioned by repeating the same mistakes of the past is nothing any of us should look forward to or want the country to experience again. So, what is really discredited is the notion that we can and should tax our way out of problems confronting us. Esentially, he is shelving economic and political freedom in the name of the common good. Kind of like global warming—no questioning allowed. The matter is settled. Right now we work January to May to pay taxes to the government. If Obama is elected–and no check on the Democratic controlled Congress exists–look forward to working January to June or July to pay taxes.

Does this sound good? Maybe we should tell Michael Phelps (who won 8 gold medals at Bejing) that because some poor athletes from Lichtenstein or Austria didn’t win a medal that he is required to give up 4 medals so they can be distributed to others who were less fortunate than him?

Doesn’t seem too fair? Well, Phelps did train and work hard to excel. It is a shame that he has to give up some of his hard earned medals. Yeah, a real shame…..just like typical Democratic Tax Policy and Mr. Obama’s grand scheme to take from hard working people that excel. It is a disaster waiting to happen. Let’s call it Hurricane Obama!

Thanks for the response egalitarian - I just believe you will have to regulate the volcanoes before we can really get our arms around the issue… I’ll close on this point - climate change is 100’s of 1000000’s of years old - and yes, we as the human race do add to the problem (that is scientifically proven) - but regulating the U.S. by itself will do nothing more than kill our economy and not resolve the problem - its a global issue.

Bundy - GREAT POST! - great analogy. Those of you who are buying into this Obama-Carter plan, step back and look at it with an open mind. Remember there is no magical line where the taxation stops - if you work hard and get promoted or start your own business - you too will pay more - doesn’t that sound great, you work hard, so you can make less…

I know it will never happen, but I think it would be a wonderful exercise to have every employee pay their taxes monthly for one year - actually write the check to the state and federal government, instead of having it witheld. Think about what Bundy posted - imagine writing out a check for 40-50% of what you make every month and sending it to the IRS! Don’t get angry because you disagree with my post - just imagine doing that…

Sickening isn’t it!

I’m not one of these people that support anybody just because they belong to one party or the other - Bush certainly didn’t do a very good job - even though he had a great opportunity. Point being - don’t vote with emotion — vote with a level-head and vote for the person who will change things, not just to change them, but make the changes that will help the U.S. get back in the race.

I’ll ignore your comment, Anon. Given that you gave no proof we only have your opinion.

Alex had some good answers in #35, easterner et. al.

would everyone agree to pay 50%? not just the upper working classes (and as I pointed out, the truly “elite” would be immune in any event)? if everyone in the country agreed to pay a full 1/2 of their gross, I would agree to it. . .

won’t happen, not in this country.

moreover, I think, once again, everyone is conveniently forgetting who spends the largest chunk of taxpayer money. . . .it isn’t the President, it is that pesky Democrat-controlled, pork-bloated thing called Congress!!!

So if you are going to place blame, let’s put at least half of it on the shoulders of our elected officials in Congress. . .

I agree that Congress is pork-bloated. I disagree that it’s a Democratic Congress issue, because it was that way when it was a Republican Congress, also.

Think the “bridge to nowhere”, that was Ted Stevens’ baby and he is a Republican.

I would gladly give 50% of my wages to have the same securities that Denmark does. People say it won’t work here but that’s because they’re skeptical that everyone will truly pay that amount (’cuz no one wants to pay if everyone doesn’t have to, they’ll feel they are unfairly shouldering the burden which is a current conservative complaint). Reference easterner’s comment in #47 that the truly elite will be immune because their “income” isn’t wages, it’s trust fund/inheritance monies.

I don’t know how to get around that issue, surely Danes have individuals who are “elite” ?

I like that food for thought, Sisyphus, and I agree, you do have some wonderfully logical and well written comments.

Sis - I’m glad you closed with the “socialism” statement…

Last I heard Denmark is not a world power —

Bundy - thanks for clarifying the TMI “non-issue.”

I wonder where we would be today had Mr. Clinton not signed NAFTA? I wonder where we would be today if all of those workers that worked in the textile industry were not let go and the plants closed and re-opened in China (where there is a real C02 issue).

Thanks gag me - Wow! I’d like to be a mouse in the corner when he explains that one to “the one” that counts.

Sisyphus, I will agree with some of your statement if you include “Congress” where appropriate:

“Just one of the most boneheaded foriegn policy moves [Congress] ever made, . . . ”

Remember, the President can’t declare war. . . .

easterner, no problemo there buddy. Congress at that time was just a rubber stamp. I have major issues with all who voted to give Bush such authority, including Democrats like Biden, Clinton, and Lieberman. Democrats booted Lieberman from the party for it and arguably Clinton lost the nomination because of it. I’ll bite my tongue on Biden for now. I think they all showed an appalling lack of judgment on the vote.

Good one about Larry Craig drilling…..lol…….that was funny. So was the rest of your response. Ya seem a way bit angry. Stop listening to Olberman……..lol

We must stop accusing Bush for all problems. It was not his fault that 9/11 occurred. We could have blamed Clinton for it. Remember who was in charge of this aggremment called NAFTA? Wasn’t that Clinton’s fault right there? Democrats have their problems to and so does Obama. In four more years, he would be this worthy candidate for you. In my opinion, I think everyone goes for him because Obama is the first candidate to be African- American and it is making history. He is worthy und sehr klug (very smart). But, he does lack experience to be this president for America. Please look at both pies before choosing one that is very appetize looking to you. Please excuse some of my writing as I can write ok English. I keep up a lot with American politics and also like to talk about my opinions. Please feel free to respond back as will not be offended in any shape or form of any kind. Danke sehr for your Zeit (time).

Hey Guest, Bundy didn’t resort to “nastiness”. As a matter of fact he threw in a couple of “lol’s” to show you he was joking. There’s that hyper-sensitivity thing coming from the liberal side again. Lighten up a little will ya?. After the speech Palin gave last night its a beautiful day today. (but I could see a speech like that would get the libs all depressed) So sorry! ROFL

WTF? Polyester disco boots? White polyester belts……..John Travolta didn’t wear that crap in Sat. Night Fever……..that is an excellent visual though. Kind of like a cross between Elvis and Borat.

#65 - OMG you made me think of Elvis in a Borat type, whatever that thing is he wore… eek.

Oops, there’s another one… OMG.

re: #57….”Congress at that time was just a rubber stamp”…..

can you explain that for me? they had all the info Bush did and more power . . . how were they a “stamp”?

interesting…the two democratic contenders for the nomination came from that “rubber stamp” congress. . . .

Oh c’mon easterner. You don’t do math? In 2004 which party had the majority in the house and senate. Congress didn’t vet much of anything that came out of the White House. And yes that includes some Democrats, I assume, because they couldn’t do anything about it.

#71…so that means the entire minority voted against the war resolution? and stated their reasons for the same? was the entire minority of Congress a group of mindless idiots, then? where did Joe Biden fit into this group? what was his position?

and why couldn’t they “do anything” about it, anyway? I don’t like Bush or his war policies any more than the next guy but I am tired of all the blame being heaped on one person; there is a lot of blame to go around and that most definitely includes our elected officials on Capitol Hill. . . .

Hi, Captn. Kirk…
Tired net clichés or not… you got a big laugh out of me!
I dang near spit my coffee all over the keyboard!

Well done!

Glad to help Boomer!

Not to keep bringing up old wounds, but as a innocent bystander in all of this I feel I should offer my opnion on this issue.
As for the “meeting in the parking lot” deal. That was completely blown out of proportion by Mrs Hoagie. Anyone who’s been following the topics on this site for any length of time would know this. The “back of the parking lot” goes all the way back to when Crystal was on the site and wanting to meet certain “handsome” posters (who will remain anonymous), when she asked to meet them behind Fred Myers and something to do with a penguin suit if I recall correctly. Since then it’s been an ongoing joke and Idahoagie should have known this. (whether or not his wife did is another story) Bundy has even joked with other members about the parking lot thing. And when Bundy made the original comment to Idahogie, NOT the Mrs., it was in regards to the picture Marcus put up on the Candid post, of which Bundy says, “meet me in the parking lot, I’ve got a picture to show you”.
Completely harmless and meant as a joke. At that same time Mrs Hoagie, as poster “calling all hypocrites” was in the thick of things bashing people left and right. If both the Mr and the Mrs had been communicating whilst all of this was occuring, the Mr could have explained to the Mrs that the whole “parking lot” issue was only a joke and always had been a joke. After that incident the Mrs came into the chatbox for 2 days after that and reapeatidly attempted to get both Easterner and Bundy to admit things that just weren’t there by continuing to ask during those two days “was that a threat, was that a threat”, trying to get one of these posters to say yes, thereby attempting to implicate them in a crime. Which of course they never would because it was all a joke to begin with. Then the following week she came back saying cops had been called and supeanas issued and everyone involved was in trouble. To which Joe Eagle acknowledged, “no supeanas had been issued and no cops had contacted him”.

That’s my take on what went down as an outsider looking in observing the goings on between these folks.

As for the moderators being anonymous, I don’t see how that has anything to do with anything. They were anonymous when Joe V first started the site and they’re anonymous on every other site I post on. The one thing I do agree is not logging in to post a comment. Every single site on the net (that I’ve been to) has you log in, in order to post a comment. Like boomer noted, I also think this makes each poster responsible for his/her comments and would cut back on the multiple personalities some folks like to take on.
But at the same time I think if someone wants to be truely “anonymous”, Joe has given us that right and I like that option.

I also don’t agree with your comment “a forum lives and dies by the the amount of people who read without posting”. Again, I read quite a few blogs and forums in which I don’t bother to post. I just don’t have the time to invest in every site I come across.
Posters will always come and go as they go about their lives. Things change, times change and you can’t expect the same people that are posting today to still be posting a year or two from now.

What I don’t understand is people like Nemesis got all upset a few months back when moderators attempted to smother (or edit if you will) some arguing going on before it flamed out of control. And her and some others got all upset saying the things being edited weren’t worth editing or enough wasn’t being edited and why can’t we all see what was edited. etc etc.. Joe Eagle stated then as he has stated many times, that he intends to err on the side of free speech and like you said, it’s his site and he can do what he wants with it. Personally I like more freedom of speech. It’s when some people come on and try to shove their opinion down your throat like it’s the only opinion that matters is where we run into problems. As long as we can all accept each others point of view and say “ok, now here’s MY point of view” and be done with it, we’ll be ok.
So then we go 3-4 months with no editing whatsoever but now Nemesis complains that the moderators aren’t policing the site enough. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways. And this is where the “grow some thicker skin” issue comes into play. Personally I don’t know what upset Nemesis to where she felt she had to leave this time around, but she certainly wasn’t an innocent in all of this like she’d like to have everyone believe. She’s flung her fair share of snarky comments and attitude around this site just as others have. But for the most part we usually work things out amongst ourselves and these little issues die out and we all move on. (Candid post being the exception)

IFT will never become “and empty house” in my opinion. People come and people go, that’s the nature of all blogs. And I’ve been a part of quite a few of them over the years.

Regarding the political back and forth, I agree that we’ll all just have to wait and see what happens come election time. Good discussion everyone.
Have a nice weekend & enjoy the fair.

I concur
Party at Marcus’ place…bring your PBR pirate hats!
Enjoy the weekend everyone!

That just looked like typical politcal propaganda to me. If you want to see a brilliant piece about GOP hypocrisy check this out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-hits-karl-rov_n_123852.html

Ditto on #77. I felt that explained the situation pretty well. 007 and I have joked alot about meeting in Fred Meyer Parking Lot. Some people are way too sensitive. As for the WTF use, it too, like white disco boots, vinyl belts and the like was also used in humor. Too many people are too serious and that is one of the reasons some people lett this site…..it got way too serious for an internet forum. My thought on it was that by combining Elvis and Borat no one in their right mind could think I was SERIOUS…..but alas, even that offended the liberals. For a group of people that portray themselves as being free thinkers and tolerant it sure doesn’t show itself on these posts. (disclaimer: my comments are my opinion and my opinion only and are not meant to put down, bait or personally attack anyone on this site.) Thanks for your time and have a marvelous day! ** quoting Kirk’s disclaimer

Damn I’ve been rickrolled again. Curse you Marcus.

Porter I’ve seen that a couple times now and I’m confused by it. I certainly agree with Obama that a literal reading of the old Testament isn’t really useful as a tool from which to guide modern day policy and portions of it contain some pretty outrageous suggestions. I mean if you made a movie out of it, it would would be x-rated. I do see where evangelicals could use it to incite other evangelicals into hating Obama. Is that what you’re doing?

This post is about criticizing Obama’s speech and him lacking substance. While I disagree with the premise there are quite a few comments out there in this regard. I’m just curious since you seem to support McCain Palin, what goals they set forth and methods by which they would achieve them. And with McCain why didn’t he do these things while Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of congress? And with Palin, how are we going to find out this information when the McCain campaign has put her off limits for interviews?

Comment # 77 by Captn Kirk

You said : ” …. but she [Nemesis] certainly wasn’t an innocent in all of this like she’d like to have everyone believe …”

Nemesis has always been a voice of reason on this forum. What you said here is simply untrue and an attempt to malign her character. Shame on you!

And not many of the other things you state as ‘facts’ in this post are accurate either. You have squandered any credibility you had.

easterner —
You are right that Nemesis is a class act.

What I observed is that the hoagies were NOT the ones who attacked first. There may have been attacking on their part, but it was defensive, not offensive. If you can, please point out just ONE post where this was not the case.

Perhaps before you level your accusations at others you should take a look a bit closer to home.

“Looking closer to home” means to examine myself and see if I am doing the thing that I am accusing the other person of doing. It’s about introspection and the willingness to see if “I” am simply projecting onto another person behaviors of which I am also guilty.

No need to cut and paste. If you mention the thread and the comment # that would be sufficient.

Thanks!

I assumed the “particular issue” was the incorrect allegation about Bundy wanting to “meet” the Hoagies when he was really just making a joke about another poster who had suggested something like it. That issue was raised in the post I referenced.

The Bundy issue arose because several posters accused Bundy of being “nasty” and referencing the whole Hoagie debacle.

But what, exactly, in all this are you afraid to revisit? The fact that the Hoagies were ready and threatening to call the police on some of us, for absolutely no reason except that they have proven themselves to be bullies?

Sorry, I still don’t get it.

The Hoagie nasty comments can simply and easily be found by searching this entire blog for “Idahogie” or “Dan Henry” (he revealed his real name on his original posts which had to do with stolen traffic signs).

Easterner,

The anon’s postings are probably sock puppets for some of the “offended” offenders who called us various names like stupid and insulted us because we refused to agree with them. I would just let it go. These kind of folks take themselves too seriously and have way to big a chip on their shoulders. My suggestion to you is this: Just imagine them in poka-dot underwear wearing a white vinyl disco outfit and let it (and them) go.

okay that website creeped me out. . and people bash the military recruiters….

easterner, you’ve been sarcastic and nasty all over these boards. Take your own advice and search for ‘easterner’ to find the many examples.

imagine, if you will, if McCain had called Michelle Obama a “pig” with lipstick: the media would be blazing with it. . .

yet this gets no mention? Palin makes a joke about hockey moms being pit bulls with lipstick, Obama calls Palin a pig wearing lipstick……whoa.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-says-mc-1.html

the problem, Native, is he was echoing a joke Palin herself made about pitbulls wearing lipstick just last week; could it really be a coincidence? also, the youtube video shows that the audience was chanting “pit bull” in the background. . . clear reference that they got the joke at Palin’s expense.

I have heard that phrase many times over the course of years following politics. You’ve never heard that phrase before, easterner?

Even McCain has used it. Was he also calling Palin, or anyone, a pig? Of course not….

I see desperation on the part of McCain. Obama must be hitting a nerve!

And Obama was referencing McCain & the fact that he offers no real change at all.

Can’t you just smell the fear coming off McCain?

LOL (oops, didn’t mean to type that!)

Fear? I think I am starting to get your sense of humor.

Has anyone ever seen a presidential candidate go after a VP candidate as hard as Obama is Palin. Shouldn’t he be focusing his time and energy on the other presidential candiate?

I think Obama and his camp are in panic mode right now and doing everything they can to give some semblance that they have some control. They are scared, and you can see it in how they are responding to interview questions. Instead of pressing forward on their campaign they are stuck in a rut trying to dis-credit Sarah Palin and as they do it is back firing on them left and right.

Sorry easterner I didn’t realize you had called me out. First, I’m not a woman but thanks for the compliment. Second, I wrote and explantory comment the other day setting forth the fact that I’m not pimping 43sb. I post there regularly and indicate that when commenting here for id purposes. Third, I don’t run the site. Its not my blog. If you want to complain about the way its run go ask the proprietors on the email link they provide. Fourth, I’ve not challenged the moderators here that I recall. And if you want to get personal we can. To paraphrase Henry V: I do not seek a fight as I am but nither shall I shrink from one.

Why do you address me in the third person like I’m not here. Its cowardly.

Here’s the scoop about that AP story, easterner:

“In a September 10 article discussing Sen. Barack Obama’s recent comment about Sen. John McCain’s policies — “[Y]ou can put lipstick on a pig; it’s still a pig” — Associated Press reporter Nedra Pickler referred to Gov. Sarah Palin’s “joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull” and baselessly asserted that Obama’s audience “clearly dr[ew] a connection to Palin’s joke even if it’s not what Obama meant.” However, Pickler provided no evidence for her assessment of the audience’s reaction, and, indeed, the interpretation by New York Times reporter Jeff Zeleny of the audience’s reaction was completely different from Pickler’s. Zeleny wrote in a September 10 article that “to those in the audience, it was clear that Mr. Obama was employing an age-old phrase — lipstick on a pig — and referring to Mr. McCain’s policies. He had not yet mentioned Ms. Palin at that point of his speech.”

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100017?f=h_top

The pig and lipstick comment were unfortunate. Obama should not have said it, and McCain should not have gotten so up in arms about it. They both should be talking about issues that matter to the American people.

My new saying:

You can put lipstick on a pig but you can’t get conservatives to talk about issues that actually matter.

This is utterly ridiculous. Obama was clearly going on about the same thing he’s been talking about for a while in that a McCain presidency would just be 4 more years of the same thing we’ve gotten. Thus the very common lipstick on a pig comment. But instead of refuting why Obama might be wrong conservatives have all this faux outrage over how this supposedly refers to Palin. Yet they are like crickets when its pointed out to them that McCain used this very same statement last year in referring to something Hilary Clinton did. ITS JUST A COMMON PHRASE PEOPLE.

reader, If I say click my name I’m usually directing you to a source I’m commenting on. If I don’t, I usually put 43sb as my url since that’s the place I usually blog. I do that to distinguish myself from other Sisyphii in the tubes. I’m sure the proprietors there appreciate the very small amount of traffic that may generate. And just to clarify I don’t always agree with everything written there. I’m sure others there would agree about things I write as well.

I am so glad I got out of Idaho Falls, simply because of all the bigotry it breeds.

Hi Douglas,

A bunch of us wish we could exit stage left, at this point. This board sometimes displays the ugly under belly of a very intolerant town.

Don’t get me wrong; there are some very good and kind people here. And I am very grateful for them. I have found, though, that in general if you don’t spout the party line and “get in line”, then you’re not very welcome here.

Wouldn’t it be great it diversity and differences were valued more in IF? Maybe someday …

One might even say “arguing on the internet is retarded”. (disclaimer: retarted in the sense as used with an adjective complement and not in the sense of special olympics retarted or child or person/s as in slow development)

Exactly right Easterner! And don’t dare tell anyone that a troll lives under a bridge, that’s just taboo around here. Come on folks lighten up! We all have different opinions, that’s life. And we all put our pants on one leg at a time. Except for Bundy….he’s got this contraption that holds his pants out for him as he launches himself off a trampoline and woooosh, both feet in at the same time!! He’s the man!!

It surprises me that a well educated, informed man would say “um” so much when he speaks. It’s not a voting point but anyone who suffers through high school speech class knows that’s a public speaking no no. It seems like every sentence and it gets distracting. Can’t wait for those debates. Whatever happens in the VPs may be more defining than the Pres’s.

ah, the drama; in an absolutely classless display, an Obama supporter publicly disgraced herself and invited legal action by the Atlantic magazine:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809u/editors-note

hmmm…this really reeks of supporter desperation. . . .

Hi Idaho Native;

the editorial I posted a link to was in reference to the Jill Greenburg photshop incident: she was hired by THe ATlantic to take photos of John McCain for a story; she then, admittedly, took several extremely unflattering photos and used them on her website after photoshopping “stuff” onto them. . . .

Now The Atlantic is considering legal action; the editor of The Atlantic was on the news this a.m. apologizing to McCain and everyone else about it; they are not paying her for her work ; the author of the McCain article had this to say:

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/about_that_mccain_photo.php

you can see the photoshopped pix by googling Jill Greenburg and McCain….

Okay, so good old Obama complained that McCain was to blame for all the bailouts and had no plan to address the “greed” of these companies. WRONG!

Check out this link. In 2005, McCain predicted the Fannie Mae mess and had solutions to the mess. There were no democratic sponsors to the bill in the Senate. A House bill of similar flavor had only Republican sponsors on it. Also, Franklin Raines, who was the CEO of Freddie Mac was alleged to have cooked the earnings to boost his compensation package…….this is the same guy that Obama put on his campaign to choose his Vice-President. He was forced to step down when both he and Democratic Sen. Chris Dodd (who is supposed to be providing oversight to the Banking Industry) got caught getting sweetheart mortgage loans from Countrywide.

McCain should bash Obama all week long for this association with the very people that contributed to the bailout mess we are faced with now. So, who has a better understanding of how to fix this mess? The answer is clear. John McCain. He said this in 2005….Obama was busy cozying upto Tony Rezko and Raines. They all got Friends of Angelo mortgage loans that were part of the problem.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2083758/posts

http://www.politicalforum.com/elections-campaigns/49737-unbelievable-2005-john-mccain-warned-congress-about-fannie-mae-freddie-mac.html

This is more proof that Obama is talking out both sides of his mouth. He isn’t walking the talk.

I’m sexy Sarah Palin, and I approved Johns approved message. Did I mention I can field dress a moose in 30 below weather after feeding a tribe of inuit eskimos baby seal meat all while applying lipstick in the back or a state troopers car just north of Alaska Hwy 97 & Dawsons Creek?
By the way, there’s no parking on the Kiskatinaw River Bridge this Saturday because I’ll be training for the Alaska Iditarod that day. Go Huskies!

anyone else here Jay Leno’s bit about the “fundraiser”? “Obama hosts this million dollar shindig at a Beverly Hills hotel, catered by famous chefs, 28k per head, barbara streisand sings……….all so he can keep more in touch with the “common man”. ”

This all explains why I’m voting for the grumpy guy who got all worried about the exploding Pintos.

nice info Bundy; crazy what great lengths people go to to try to discredit anything John McCain says or does;

yet, it is a-ok for liberals to intentionally mislead McCain and The Atlantic and post awful, disturbing images of McCain, (imagine, just for a moment, if that had happened to Obama? every media outlet in the country would be demanding that photog’s head on a plate….) or to hack into Sarah Palin’s personal email…

sigh. . . it is all so nasty right now……oops, hope that wasn’t a “Troll” statement, Sisy, or me being “holier than thou”…..I would hate to have to read your criticism of me on other sites again………..

I really don’t care what Mike Oxley had to say. I care about what McCain said then and what he is saying now. I also care about the fact that with the Senate being split that it was not firmly in control of one party or the other.

So many of you liberals continue to try and lump John McCain and Sarah Palin as Bush and Cheney. They are not Bush and Cheney. McCain proved that by bucking the President on Iraq when it wasn’t even politically expedient from the right or the left. Palin did the same thing when she took on the Republican Party over ethics violations and won! The fact is, liberals don’t want to talk about McCain and Palin’s real ideas and reforms for the American People. The same liberal talking points are getting old–trying to run against George Bush may make you feel better, but it won’t solve the problems of the United States. People get the feeling that Obama is a talker and McCain is a doer. The polls are bearing this out in many battleground states. McCain has a track record of reform. Palin does as well. The American people know this.

George Bush and Dick Cheney aren’t on the ballot. Angry liberals just can’t accept that. They want to run against Bush and the country isn’t buying it anymore. People want change for the right reasons. They also want a pair of pols that can deliver. McCain/Palin are the real deal that promote change that we can believe in–and change that can happen and actual experience making it happen.

ditto….

why does Sisyphus continue to post here after what he/she wrote on Nemesis’ blog, about how they can’t stand IFLZ? I thought this was junior high and “sad” or something….

????? just curious………

I don’t know what poll you’re referencing boomer but the poll I saw in last weeks Wall Street Journal had Biden with a 7 % approval rating. Guess that goes to show you the bias these polls produce from one source to the next.
And Sis, what’s with the “click my name” business? Can you please post a link like everyone else? I’m always afraid of clicking your name lest I be wisked off to that neo-nazi liberally slanted 43rd state site of yours. (no offense)
Bundy’s last paragraph really hit the spot, “liberals can’t seem to get past the fact that George Bush and Dick Cheney aren’t on the ballot”. Great end to a great post.

Wow Bundy, drink the koolaid much? The issue I was ever so carefully trying to get you to open your mind on was that you cherry pick your information without considering context. But you opted to keep it closed and stick with sources of information that fit your pre-conceived notions of what is RIGHT rather than what is correct. No we don’t try and lump them together, its because they are together. 90% consistency is hard to argue with. And sure I understand how you only want to listen to what McCain is saying without reference to his record, its your only shot. Republican policies have failed horribly and you’ve yet to answer the question on hwo McCain will “reform” a Democratically controlled congress when he couldn’t do it when his party was in power. I’m sorry but the country is in horrible shape and no one can honestly maintain that its a result of Democratic policies.

Palin bucking the party. That’s funny. Her good buddy Ted Stevens goes on trial next week for seven counts of obstruction. No, people want change, but not to the right, as boomer indicated. Good luck on the re-branding, though.

easterner, sniping again? Your sychophantic tactics only serve to make this place an echo chamber. I’m sure you don’t want that do you? boomer would be so lonely.

Guest House, you afraid you might learn something? Sometimes posting a link that’s way too long results in an error and certainly disrupts the flow of the text. And really that is such a petty issue you guys keep bringing up. Interesting tactics you guys use. Pick an argument you might win to avoid the one you can’t. Please stay on topic. And while you’re at it, google up Godwin’s law. The name calling is pretty juvenile. At least, try and explain how someone on the left can be fascist.

Thanks boomer but you failed to mention that Gramm is McCain’s chief economic adviser. Who ever woulda thought that Bush’s legacy would include bringing socialism to America?

Hi, Sisyphus…
I didn’t think I even needed to mention Gramm was McCain’s economic advisor… While McCain pulled him out of the campaign, Gramm is still very much on the job.

It’s highly amusing to me that McCain is focused on getting the SEC chairman fired instead of offering anything of substance as to how he plans to lead this country out of this enormous trainwreck. Not that the guy shouldn’t be fired, but that’s not going to fix a single thing- it’s pretty much just shooting the Captain of a sinking ship while he’s at the wheel.

The bailout had to happen, or the world’s economy would go into a depression. The process is speeding up every 24 hours now, and spreading in widening circles worldwide.

Whatever recovery plan develops has to happen within 2 weeks or less, and there simply has to be bi-partisan agreement or it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

Adios, Capitalism; this one makes socializing health care look like small potatoes. The most interesting thing I’ve read is one economic pundit predicted over 10 years ago that socializing the nation’s financial institutions would happen in a Republican administration.

Bush is in deep denial, as usual, the Republicans are busy setting up a circular firing squad, and Lord only knows what the Democrats are up to right now. Obama is all hunkered down with his economic advisors. McCain is busy trying to make up his other mind, and looking for a pistol to go shoot that guy in the SEC.

Biden is explaining it all in 2000 words or less, and Palin wants to go to war with the Russians, who are taking the biggest hit from this mess of all the European nations… I guess they’re even greedier than our brilliant financial guys. Nothing like another war for a little distraction, huh? The other two worked pretty well- too bad we’re still in ‘em.

Meanwhile, here in Idaho, we’re doing okey dokey for a few months until it hits us. Remember the Reagan recession? I do. I nearly went bankrupt waiting for the trickle down to trickle down. It never trickled at all, but a good spud crop finally pulled us out. That beauty came and went in most of the US within 10 months, but here in I.F., it lingered for over 2 years.

By the time we ride through this one, we might as well change the town’s name to Hard Times.

But reality never seems to penetrate into the mind set here. I’ll be happily dead and buried before the folks in Idaho Falls ever vote for their best self interests and quit the party that has done them so much damage.

That’s my rant, and I’m stickin’ to it. Snipe as you will.

Sorry, Guest House…
I never said anything about Bundy and Kool-Aid, or Ted Stevens. I did mention Palin’s inexperience, but only in what the polls have discovered. And who’s the other who in ‘you two’? Uh, let me guess… can’t be you…right?

Geez, Guest House. I thought you could do a lot better than this. If you’re gonna go after me, at least try to go for the right poster. Even so… Glad to see I made you ROTFLMAO!!

WTF!! LOL!!! OMG!!!

If you need more humor in your life, just ask- I’m most happy to oblige.

IMHO- loosen up that white vinyl belt and pull the bunch out of your polyester panties, LOL. Pick your Lazyboy back up and take a little rest- you must be all sweaty and bothered. It will be all better in the morning.

Hey, Guest House…
I’ll bet you a milkshake on the election.
If Obama takes it, I win. I get to pick the place, and make mine a strawberry..

If McCane takes it, you win, you pick the place, and I’ll buy you any danged flavor you want.

My dear departed old Daddy taught me a good milkshake settles a lot of differences very well, and cools down tempers, too.

… yup. This thread has gone on way too long. It’s getting hard to keep track of whos said what.

I cannot believe this. Does anybody ever read legislation and pay attention to the rules put in place to implement the legislation. I know it is not sexy, but it clearly shows the road map how things got screwed up and by whom,

Read this wikipedia link and learn about the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA)that passed a DEMOCARTIC CONGRESS in 1977. Thankyou Jimmy Carter! Also, look at the rules implemented under the Clinton Administration that forced more banks to make subprime loans for poorer areas of the country that couldn’t afford to repay loans. Essentially, under the CRA, banks were forced to participate or face sanctions and earn the label of racist banks. The CRA would either punish or reward banks based on whether the banks met the needs of the underserved community, i.e. gave away loans that were risky because the applicants did not have the assets to repay the loans. Does any of this sound familiar?
It should.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

In 2007, Senator Chris Dodd took credit for helping pass a revised Community Reinvestment Act with the help of Jesse Jackson. Earlier this year Senator John McCain responded to a question by economist
Larry Kudlow. He said, “Absolutely there were people that predicted that the Community Reinvestment Act might lead to reckless and unsound lending practices just short of a fill in the amount of I don’t like to use the word quota, but certain percentages of a home of the bank’s lending practices, it has to be reexamined. It has to be judged by its effect. We need to find out how this particular system affected the overall insolvency of the subprime lending issue and I think I’m not saying it needs to be repealed but it certainly needs to be examined and what its effects have been and we’ll be able to figure that out.” As Nancy Pelosi says, along with Harry Reid, that we need to create yet another government agency to handle these situations. That we need another federal agency now to help bail out the people that got these loans because there wasn’t any oversight. I contend it was the politicians that pushed people into this situation. It was the politicians that made this possible, and it was not just the Democrats. It was the Republicans as well. The difference is that John McCain was NOT part of the games that Democrats and Republicans were playing with our money.

To best understand the financial mess, understand that it amounts to affirmative action and quotas being forced on lending institutions. Not many of them really objected though. They got rich. The underserved populations got lip service. And the American Taxpayer (you and I) are getting screwed.

Hi, Anonipunk…
No prob. Here’s a short résumé.

A couple of things should be mentioned that didn’t go into details…

Obama’s community organizing experience came from working through some churches in one of the Chicago neighborhoods hit hardest by the closure of some steel mills. He helped find suddenly jobless workers find re-training, new job assistance, legal problems, Illinois agency assistance, food and housing assistance, etc. He also organized voter registration drives.

He spent 10 years in the Illinois legislature as a Representative and Senator. This is where most of his experience is, but during his 2 years in the Senate, he also got a lot done, including a law that allows all of us to see where our tax money is going. I’ll provide the website address if you can’t dig it up yourself.

If you want more details, just ask.
———————————————

BARACK OBAMA :

10 years of senate experience (8 in state senate 2 in federal) with much aisle crossing bi-partisan solutions. Opposed bills he believed were unconstitutional. Drafted many bills that became law, surpassing collegues. In the 2 years he was in majority in his state senate, he sponsored 780 bills, and 280 of those were signed into law.

100% approval rating from: The League of Conservation Voters , Planned Parenthood. The National Education Association gives him an “A” on their most recent scorecard.

Examples in state senate :

Kidcare (added health insurance for 20,000 Illinois children)

Welfare reform (a bipartisan bill passed in Republican controlled senate, generating major headlines)

Earned income tax credit (tax relief for working poor families)
Also voted to increase the minimum wage (from $5.15 to 6.50)

Death penalty reform. (He supports the death penalty in exceptional circumstances, but wanted all interrogations to be videotaped. Initially viewed as highly controversial, Senator Obama listened to all sides of the debate, incorporated ideas from many individuals, and the result was a bill that passed the Senate 58-0, and was signed into law by a governor who originally opposed Senator Obama’s bill.)

The most ambitious campaign finance reform and ethics reform in nearly 25 years, according to good government groups.

He sponsored a bill to investigate racial profiling by police, essentially second guessing police officers. (By incorporating the best ideas from all sides on this and other bills, he even managed to win the endorsement of the state police officers union when he ran for U.S. Senate.)

Obama was opposed to the Iraq war publically, long before the invasion ever happened. Obama gave a 100% accurate assessment that the war would be of an unacceptable undetermined length, undetermined cost, and undetermined objective, and would result in civil war. This is consistant with the assessment that Bush senior and Dick Cheney both gave in the early 90’s as to why they didn’t invade back then. The country of iraq was only held together by having a ruthless dictator on top. Otherwise the country had zero unity.

Federal senate :

Obama worked with republican senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD’s including shoulder fired missiles and antipersonnel mines that were left over from the cold war after the disbanding of the USSR. This was sensible, low cost, and actually resulted in an america safer from terrorism. Some terrorists or rogue nation could have gotten those weapons. So don’t let anyone tell you Obama isn’t effective in the war for security against terrorism.

Senator Democratic leader Harry Reid has designated Barack Obama as the Democrats’ point man on ethics, citing three reasons for his selection: whenever Obama walks into a room, everyone stops talking and listens to what he has to say; Obama is known for having unquestionable ethics and integrity.

Perhaps his most impressive accomplishment in the U.S. Senate happened on January 18, 2007. That is when the Senate passed a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. (Senator Obama had voted against a prior ethics reform bill that he said wasn’t tough enough.) Newspapers give Senators Obama and Russ Feingold significant credit for insisting that this latest ethics bill included tough measures. Obama risked some political capital to get this bill passed. The bill bans gifts/meals from lobbyists; puts an end to subsidized corporate jets; requires full disclosure of earmarks (who are the earmarks for, and for what purpose); places restrictions on retiring members of Congress going immediately into lobbying; requires lobbyists to disclose bundling of contributions to Congress, candidates or committees

While touring Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Palestinian territories, he told Palestinian Authority President MahMoud Abbas that US would never recognize Hamas leaders until they renounced mission to eliminate Israel. In Africa, he publicly took an AIDS test to show people in Africa that it was ok and even socially responsible to have an AIDS test.

Senator Obama cosponsored the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act, S-2611, sponsored by John McCain. It passed the Senate on May 25, 2006, by a vote of 62-36. Under this bill, undocumented persons who have been in the country five or more years would only be allowed to stay and apply for citizenship, provided they pay back taxes, learn English and have no serious criminal records. 2 million undocumented persons who have been in the United States for less than two years would be ordered home.

He has also called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). He’s encouraged use of ethnanol as an alternative fuel.

In his first first year as U.S. Senator, Obama held 39 town hall meetings throughout Illinois, and in senate, sponsored 152 bills and resolutions, and cosponsored 427 more.

All this as a freshman senator.

Background :
Obama worked for $13,000 a year in inner city Chicago helping people. His program registered 150,000 people to vote. When he graduated as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, he passed up over 600 high money offers at law firms and worked for a civil rights law firm at a fraction of the pay.

Thanks for the attempt Boomer but IMO I don’t see any “real” accomplishments there. Especially compared to McCain. Like others have mentioned, Palin has accomplished much more than Barack. My vote will stay with McCain/Palin.
But I appreiate your response.

‘We, in Ireland, can’t figure out why people are even bothering to hold an election in the United States this year.

On one side, you have a pants wearing woman lawyer, married to a lawyer who can’t keep his pants on, who just lost a long and heated primary that they still haven’t paid for yet, against a lawyer who states he is “black” when it is documented that he is only 12% “black”, who goes to the wrong church, who has stated that he wants his countrymen to learn to speak Spanish rather than English, who refuses to put his hand over his heart and say the pledge of allegiance or wear the flag of the country he wants to run, who can’t remember if there are 50 or 57 states in his own country, who is married to yet another lawyer who doesn’t even like the country her husband wants to run.

Now…On the other side, you have a nice old war hero whose name starts with the appropriate ‘Mc’ married to a good looking younger woman who owns a BEER distributorship.

No contest! What in Lord’s name are ye lads thinking over there in the colonies??

Boomer, I do hope you are ready for a calorie infusion. You so deserve those milkshakes!

Wow, boomer! You should write a book or something. Seriously, you have such a tremedous gift with words.

I have been a huge fan of Obama since his address to the Dem Convention in 2004. It was a life-changing moment for many Americans, I think. I was at the Red Lion with other supporters last night, and when the magic 270 electoral votes happened there wasn’t a dry eye in the room. Tears poured out. Tears of joy and relief and hope. What a stunning and amazing landslide of hope in a time of deep despair.

As Idahoans, though, we have a ways to go. I was sad to see McGimpsy and Shively go down after the hard-fought and honorable elections they ran. It’s sad that in this RED, RED town (and state) the best candidates frequently go down in defeat simply because they have a (D) behind their name. I’m glad, though, that Sali had his sorry butt thrown out! That was a very bright spot.

So, boomer, whether you enjoy the milkshakes figuratively or literally, savor every last drop! And I hope someday we’ll meet.

While my vote was largely a waste yesterday since I voted straight democrat I’m overjoyed that Obama won nationally and Bill Sali lost.

And the angst amongst my coworkers over Obama is hilarious. They finally know how I felt in 2000 and 2004.

Hi, Anonymous and all…
OK. I got it out of my system with my last post.

Here are the liberal positives I see.

After I posted here on some topics last night, I checked a Voter’s map I dug up that’s interactive, and showed how Idaho voted in the Presidential elections from 2000 to this one.

I saw some very interesting stuff. The most conservative county in the state is Franklin, which has only about 1000 people. They usually vote 80-90% Republican. But looking at the Democratic votes, Obama pulled in more Republicans even in Franklin County- more than either Gore or Kerry.

The same was true with almost every county in this state. During this election, we had 3 counties who gave Obama a majority instead of only one, Blaine, which almost always goes Democrat. In all the counties with high population, Bonneville had the lowest percentage of Obama supporters, but in all the others, the percentages were close for Idaho. Some were nearly tied. More Idaho voters went for Obama than either Gore or Kerry by large margins.

What does this mean?
I don’t know. I suspect it means there are lots of others like me, who just want to see some balance return to our state, and the desire is slowly building. The liberal base is expanding in Idaho.

I regularly read conservative and liberal websites, especially those that have an Intermountain West perspective. For a fact, there is a growing liberal base in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and Nevada. For a fact, these liberals are all organizing and going to work on creating strong support to help local Democrats compete.

But none of these groups are nowhere as militant in their objectives as some of the hard left groups. Some of those guys are just as bad as the hard right groups, and just as scary in their goals.

Is there a vast liberal conspiracy? No more than there is a vast conservative conspiracy, but no less, either.

Why Obama was elected comes from 2 reasons:

The country is becoming slightly less conservative than it has been for the past 20 years. This is a normal swing that happens about every 20 years like clockwork.

The second is the citizens have already tried balancing the White House with the Congress in every combination possible except for the one that was just voted in Tuesday. They tried a Democratic President vs. Republican Congress, letting the Republicans run the whole show, and giving a Republican President a Democratic Congress. Nothing has worked. Everything has gone steadily downhill since 2000.

We are all paying more taxes, still mired in 2 wars, and watching our economy go from trouble to collapse. We have squandered our blood and treasure, lost most our ability to influence the rest of the world, and gave away our jobs to offshore companies. We are worse off in all respects than we were 8 years ago, and we now have dug a deep hole that will take decades to climb out of.

There was a lot of fear that propelled this election, but this time, it was geniune, not manufactured fear. The voters weren’t concerned with right to life, who gets to marry or not, or the great Muslim horde that is coming for your babies. They were very afraid of losing their homes, their jobs, their medical care, and their financial security.

A lot of you have serious doubts about what is going to happen now. A lot of you are very cynical that our problems are fixable at all. Some of those doubts come from phony ideas that come from habit, distrust, and cynicism, party promotion, and some of them are very honest and as real as it gets.

There is no road map for any of the big things that need immediate attention and correction. There is no single person who has all the answers.

But we put the right guy in. He has shown he can think carefully and deeply, has the skills needed to convince others, knows how to pick the right guys for the job, is careful to the extreme and not impulsive, can take the stress, and can stay cool.

He looks to Lincoln, who is his prime influence on how to govern. He won’t pad the White House with cronies; he will seek out the best from either party as advisors, and if they sometimes fight and disagree, all the better.

He won’t sneak his legislation through during recesses or holidays. He won’t make promises he can’t keep, and he won’t take 32 weeks of holdays over the next 4 years.

He’ll be quick to fight, but he’ll use judgement on where and how to fight our enemies. If Osama Bin Lauden can be found, Barack Hussein Obama will kill him, and Bin Lauden is the first target. Obama won’t brag about getting it done, he will just do it.

How do I know? Because I’ve listened and watched this guy for 2 years. He is smarter than any President we have elected for a long time, is more practical, and less politically subsurvient than any other for years.

Don’t get all tangled up in the small stuff. Watch what happens with the big stuff. I’ll bet a strawberry milkshake you all will feel much better about him by 2010. Any takers?

Hi, Not Surprised…
You may already know me. I’ve been around here most of my life, and I’m sorta-kinda well known in some places. I would use my real name, but I don’t want any phone calls- I know I get some folks here hot under the collar. It’s not that I’m afraid of arguing over the phone- it just takes up too much of my time if I do.

But I’m nothing special- just a guy past his prime, running to fat as old age peeks over the horizon, and trying to keep whatever faculties I have as intact as possible. I really only do a few things well, and luckily, I’ve been fortunate enough to make my living with them.

Wendyjo

Your stats are bunk because your using aggregate numbers. You need to use per capita numbers to have any meaning. In fact if you think about it those numbers are bad for Idaho as we rank higher in many of them than we do nationwide in total population. Thats not good.

In certain types of crime we are every bit the equal of places like Los Angeles. Murder for one. The Idaho Falls area (counting as far out as Shelley) has had at least three I can think of right now this year (the old guy who shot his wife, the woman who shot her sister, the guy in Ucon who killed his baby). And odds are I’m missing some. You just don’t realize that our murder rate is high due to the difference in population.

Interesting post and blog. Relevantly, as many influential experts have pointed out, Obama is part of Generation Jones–born 1954-1965, between the Boomers and Xers.

On this page there are excerpts from publications like Newsweek and the New York Times, and videos with over 25 top pundits, all talking about Obama’s identity as a GenJoneser:
http://www.generationjones.com/2008election.html

Hi, Easterner…
An excellent link worthy of serious thought.

In fact, I think it is worthy of an topic article of its own…

It’s interesting the different perspectives people have. I felt that way being an Obama supporter on this site. But it could also be because the majority of the town/state are “red” and I am a (sometimes feels like) lonesome blue.

We took a poll at work just for fun, and I was the lone Obama supporter in my building of about 70 people. Talk about being on the lone side. But it was all in fun. I took a lot of ribbing, but I had the last laugh.

The election was hard fought and important this time, even before the financial collapse took priority over everything else. And it brought to a sharp focus all the big divisions in our country, in every corner, even the most remote.
I think we were a microcosm of what went on all over, and our disagreements were no greater or smaller than everywhere else. I also think that it was probably a very healthy thing for the country to go through. We needed to air out a lot of old laundry on both sides, and we got it done.

Hard feelings are natural to expect, because the country has become divided for a long time now, and the division couldn’t go on forever without causing even more harm than it has already. I hope we are now in the early stages of coming back together enough to get our government back to actually getting important things accomplished.
We have all learned from this one, and we all still have faith in our system and way of life.

Whether we are now on the right track remains to be seen, and we’re still a couple of months away from anything substantial happening. After the inaguration, we won’t know much for some months to come, either. It always takes time for any new President to get rolling, and we are all anxious.

But our anxiety can be a very good thing in the long run. More than anything, I think we all really need to examine the things that are most affecting us now, what we want the outcomes to be, and how we need to change, as individuals and a society, to make our most important objectives come to fruition. This is a real good time to think things over and set priorities for ourselves, and to develop realistic expectations for our government to accomplish.

A principled, intelligent, and deserving man is our new president. John McCain said it best: “In a time of terrible challenge, let us unite and move forward together.”

Well, here it is , Inauguration Eve, and the liberal media hasn’t made a peep about Obama’s expensive and extravagent festivities…………interesting, considering the lambasting Bush got in both 2004, and 2004, for spending considerably less (and in a better economic climate)………..

Well, as McCain said so eloquently, lets stand together and move forward……….(after we all foot the bill for Obama’s pricey parties……….:)

Still haven’t gotten over it, huh easterner? Obama won. Would you like a recap of all the mistakes Dubya and his cronies made?

I think Obama is walking into one HUGE mess. If he can get us out of the mess we are in as a country in his four years, I will consider him a miracle worker. I really liked his speech today, he said all the right things IMO. I hope he is able and is allowed to walk the walk after he has talked the talk. I hope that he can bring the two parties together to work to better things. What a novel idea — politicians getting along. I hope it happens. I hope Obama is the second coming. For the first time in several years, I have hope.

It sounded today like Obama and McCain were working together and discussing things. Surely the rest of us can do the same?

Hi Libby, nice deflection but no input into my comment: why no press about the 150 million + “extravaganza” when so many are out of work?? no other president has spent 1/3 of that on an inauguration.

but keep bashing Bush! that is the safe liberal answer to everything!

I’m behind Obama all the way, and i think most people hope he will succeed…though from my experience of the mentality of a majority of idaho natives, it appears they dont want him to succeed. Just an observation….at work the news was on a month or so ago, and it was saying that most people want Obama to succeed, to which one of the employees stated that he didnt want him to succeed…the other employee stated that she did want him to succeed, or we are %&$#ed and he said that we are $%#@ed anyway. Such optimism, and bitterness from one of the natives. This bitterness against race and the democrats is being handed down to the children also….another lady, the day after the election was telling how her five year old grandson woke up the morning after the election and said “grandma, this is the saddest day in the world”.

fight against the world!!….oh yes such a great viewpoint there, that makes you lots of friends overseas……

Hi, Marcus…
If McCain was such a liberal fool, how did he win the Republican nomination? After he was nominated, and chose Sarah Palin as a running mate, why did they lose? Wasn’t Palin a ‘true’ conservative?

Why was the margin of victory as wide as it was?

Why didn’t Ron Paul, who was definitely a much purer conservative, win the nomination? Why didn’t Paul do much better in the general election?

Why did Romney, Huckabee, Tancredo, and all the others self-destruct in 10 seconds? Were they all a bunch of liberals? If not, why didn’t they do better early on when McCain was completely broke and politically crippled?

As far as that goes, why didn’t Hillary Clinton win the Democratic nomination?

You need to look at the events square in the face and drop the veil of your personal beliefs to see the answers. Until you and the Republic Party does the same, the next election’s results will be just the same, too.

While Republicans don’t want to acknowledge it, this nation is no longer center-conservative. It’s center-liberal.

The electorate has always swung back and forth. From 1900-1920, the Republicans were the favored party, and had the favored philosophy. The great Depression ended that, and the Republicans became the minority party for the next 60 years; it became the majority party in 1994.

No one can predict with any accuracy if the 21st century is going to have similarities to the 20th. But the short-term signals for the next 10 years or so indicate a solid progressive bent to most of the electorate. The Republicans could have done a lot better if they hadn’t indulged in all that Send-Em-Back-To- Mexico nonsense in 2005 and 2006. And just that lil’ blooper alienated the fastest growing voter bloc for decades to come; reciting the long list of mistakes is too boring, and would be too depressing for some of you.

I firmly believe that there needs to be 2 solid political parties to make our democracy work. Liberal though I am, I really want the Republicans to become viable again.

The Republicans of 1900 were progressives. They were the party that broke up the huge Trusts (read LLC Corporations for the current word). They were the ones who fought for the immigrants and working poor. They were the ones who established the first National Parks and Forests. But what happened? They lost their vision within 20 years and got banished to the back seat for a half-century afterward.

Is the party going to come back in 2 years with a fresh agenda, ready to lead in the 21st century? Or will it still be caught up looking back at the past, hoping Reagan will rise from the grave? Will they continue to wage no-win social issue fights or will they concentrate on issues of good governance?

For sure, the party base is no longer large enough to prevail by numbers alone. And the strongest part of the base is old white men from the deep South and West. The party has as much work to do as Obama does in the next few years. For it to make gains, a lot of the old and no-win stuff simply has to be thrown over the side.

While I expected Obama to win, I never saw the collapse of the Republican
Party up the road ahead. Good luck- it was a pretty danged serious crash. A good start would be to start calling the Democratic Party the Democratic Party. Using the term ‘Democrat Party’ just shows a stupid lack of basic English.

By the way:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/LOL.jpg

Also, realized I didn’t answer your question boomer. He won the republican nomination because a whole bunch of stupid republicans didn’t go out and vote and support their party! Another huge factor is that a bunch of liberals that got shoved out of the Democratic party when it went way too liberal voted Republican. Thanks a lot!

I want to reinforce, again, that I’m not a republican. Just want to make sure you got that.

Yet a woman still can’t get an abortion in this town. Yeah, we’ve come real far.

is there a reason that there is no abortion clinics in this town, other than the fact that maybe it would not be economically viable? We have come really far actually.

Hi, Marcus…
OK. I’ll buy that about McCain. But that still begs the question? why didn’t the Republican faithful go out and vote and support their party’s candidate? Your answer addresses the result but not the cause. It doesn’t address the reason why McCain became the candidate, either.

So- who’s out of step? You, or the party? Or both?

If all those liberals deserted their party and voted Republican, why didn’t McCain win? Why the Thanks a lot comment? A vote is a vote. Do you think that there were actually enough liberals in the Republican party to swing the nomination to McCain? From all over the country?

I think not. Liberals were real busy fighting among themselves this year. We had 2 very qualified candidates, and we slugged it out for 100 days more than the Republicans did. We had a lot of hard feelings of our own to reconcile within our party. The faithful voters who jumped over to the other party were a very tiny bunch- there was simply no need for them to switch this time.

Yup. I know you’re a Conservative, and the Republicans are just the largest conservative party. But we all had choices outside of the 2 majors, and always have. No one held a knife to your neck if you voted for McCain, and if you did, you voted for the party as much as the man.

All it takes to win are the right ideas coming along at the right time. In the general election, it all comes down to who won the primaries. Until we change our way of politics, that’s the way it’s always going to be.

For either party, the public is going to test a party’s beliefs. Those that are found lacking lose elections. Trying to place blame on failure doesn’t change that fact, but failure to examine the root causes of defeat just ensures more defeat in the future. If they didn’t buy it once, why would the buy the same thing again later on?

Hi, Supposedly Crystal…
The economics are enough alone to prevent a full-time abortion clinic from being viable in Idaho Falls.

Maybe Boise is big enough, but Idahoans, especially in this area, would rather have children anyway. We don’t have the social attitudes or economic necessities that creates the need for a clinic.

As far as abortion itself- I have no doubts that they happen here. There are many reasons why they are chosen, and for every reason, there will be a doctor who will acquiesce to the decision quietly.

___________________________________________________________

Hi, Marcus…
C’mon. Slackers are slackers. They don’t need politics to be slackers. Ambition always rises, no matter what the politicial system is, just as beggars will always beg. That comment is a ridiculous over-simplification, and shows real ignorance on your part if you reallyi beleive it. Better crack a book or two!

You’re a lot smarter than that comment would indicate. I haven’t given up on you, though… even though you have occasional brain freezes, I know you’re a smart guy, and far too young to be bitter.

uh, just on a side note, I never said taxpayers were paying for the inauguration: these kinds of propoganda are paid for by private special interest groups, hoping to get something in return…(i.e., ABC shelling out 5 million to be able to sell it as a t.v. spectacle, etc)

My point was, isn’t it irresponsible to spend these massive expenditures when we are in such deperate financial times? And if not, then WHY did the media make so much of it when the Bush inauguration cost less than 1/3 of Obama’s???

The “security” measures are red herring; even accepting that heightened security measures were necessary this time around (and, let’s be real: most people in this country probably wanted to kill George Bush in 2004…now there’s a security concern!) , it still doesn’t account for the 130,000, 000 you have to tack on to that to reach what was spent…180,000,000…………

imagine what that money could have been used for instead………

I wager I will get a solid 5, now wait, 6 thumbs down for this……………:)

Marcus, you rock!

How ’bout “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink” and “It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

excuse me, i want to correct you on something….i changed my name from tiger lily to “supposedly i’m crystal and i’m back” because people like you think i am her, so im pretty much saying i’m not her. Is she on the most wanted list or something? is that why she wont admit who she is?
get a grip, because someone else does not have a liking for you and your kind, it has to be the same person? ….crystal please come back and tell the imbeciles i am not you……..otherwise keep believing.