Forgive me if this isn’t the right place to post these sentiments. I’m sure this issue has been discussed here before, so this may be an act of futile redundancy. But, here goes…
I enjoy a good political discussion as well as anyone. Two (or more) sides, both with valid arguments, well-debated, makes my brain do new things, and I think that’s important. I think all of us here like it, or we wouldn’t visit the site. We welcome and celebrate opposing viewpoints, passionate dialogue, and healthy debate.
But, and here’s wh
ere the candid part comes in, I’ve been disappointed at times to come in, and see new comments on different posts only to find that the new comments have absolutely nothing to do with the original post. Instead they are personal pot shots, flame wars, BOP comments, one-upsmanship, etc. Occasionally I’ll wade through the irrelevant insults to try and find some nugget of intellect, but it gets tiresome.
So I have an idea, because there are some that like being involved in the drama of this insult jousting. Why don’t we have simply one post for the drama-addicts. It would be there you could discuss all you want how much you hate Bush, or how evil the liberals are, etc.
This very post may ironically draw such insults, but I think the quality and productivity of the debate will improve dramatically if we could keep the arguments more germane, and less directed at shunning and insulting previous commenters, separating in our minds the validity of the arguments made and those making them…
I’ll climb down from my soapbox now…
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Gato got runned over by Marcus many moons ago. Be ye daft, 2486? 
Let's have a new poll, alright, Joe?
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{ 228 comments }
I concur! The flaming political pot-shots as well as the “one upmanship” has gotten completely out of hand and seems to have taken over every single post lately. I don’t know what it is with some of these folks that just have to get the last word in. This is why I refuse to talk about politics in a blog type setting.
Thanks for bringing this issue to light OpenMind. I’ve been hinting about this issue every couple of days but this beast has got a mind of it’s own and needs to be reined in. I’m hoping you pointing it out in a post will do just that.
We could all stand to relax just a little bit.
I’m with you. I’d love to dig in and let everybody in the comment section know what I think…but I hold myself back quite a bit because it all just gets thrown aside to talk about x characteristic of my post in the end.
Welcome to the interwebs.
Classic pic, utter truth in a crude, uncaring package. If asked on the street, I might phrase it differently due to how readily available the picture would be…but this will serve its purpose.
Speaking of on the street/in person discussions…I’d be glad to get everybody in the area together and have a good old time. I like getting in other people’s heads, finding out what makes them tick…and that just doesn’t work online.
And of course the pic didn’t show up on the post…it was there in the preview!
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/amature/special_olympics.jpg
Ok, Marcus, I feel horribly guilty laughing at that picture… but I couldn’t help it.
I love watching these folks argue for arguements sake. Every one of them feel like they need to get in the last word no matter what. Its like watching preschools kick sand in each others faces during recess. Hopefully this post will help them to open their eyes, flush out the sand and get back to having civil discussion. Good post Open Mind.
OMG that picture is TOO funny!! (& oh so true)
Thankx Marcus…lol
Its an evolutionary thing blogwise. Sometimes the moderator has to come in to enforce the rules. But it’ll come around with a little kicking and screaming. Once people realize they’ll get as good as they give, it’ll change.
Having said that, the picture is completely inappropriate and very hurtful to the disabled and their families. Click my name for a letter to the editor on why you should be ashamed for posting it.
I’m not ashamed, and have no reason to be. Obviously the kid is having a great time doing what kids do, regardless of his mental/physical ability.
The caption (as I stated before) is crude, but accurate. It’s not poking fun at the disabled, it’s pointing out the obvious deficit of civil minded individuals taking part in heated arguments over the internet. We’re all allowed our opinions, and the above is mine.
Not another word on this subject will come from me, I’ll be having too much fun sucking whipped cream out of the can.
Get ready for the storm! Hopefully we won’t have one
.
OMG!!! How did I know somebody was going to complain about that picture!! I guess it was only a matter of time. Geeezzzz!
Thanks for the laugh Marcus and stick to your guns on this issue. I’m so tired of the political correct bs in this day and age.
Lighten up syphilis. It was meant as a joke and Marcus even put a disclaimer before posting it. The hyper-sensitivity of some people really blows my mind!
Hypersensitivity, my ass. If you think it’s a funny picture, you’re a sick human being. And if you think people calling you a sick human being are being ‘hypersensitive,’ then you are a sick, conservative human being.
Try sharing that photo and it’s caption with that boy’s mother, and then tell me again how it doesn’t make fun of disabled people. Those of you who defend the posting of that picture wouldn’t have the guts to do that. Cowards.
Sysyphus is right, and you all should be ashamed.
This thread will desintigrate in 3. . .2. . .1
Good point, Bloop, but a little too late. The thread disintegrated a half dozen comments above, when a group of people decided to make fun of a disabled kid, and then were defensive about it when they got called out.
What’s funny is, Idahogie doesn’t bother to reply to the post itself that Open Mind left (as WE ALL know it pertains to him as much as anybody here), yet he’d rather whine about a picture like it’s hurt him so deeply. GMAFB!! I’m sure you missed the whole point the caption was trying to tell you as well. Figures.
I agree with Guest House…..you guys ARE hyper-sensitive.
btw….good comment Artiste’, glad to see you back.
GofaG is right. Did you even read the original post Idahogie?? I honestly don’t think so. You’d rather whine and complain about something else, just so you can “keep the argument going”. You really are a piece of work.
*Flame Fest On*
The only pieces of work are the ones who are yukking it up over the picture. I’ll admit that I myself chuckled slightly but I’m ashamed that I did and I realize that the picture is very wrong and very inappropriate. Sometimes those things do end up being funny kind of the way people laugh at people getting hurt. But the difference to me between those who are decent and those who are pieces of work are the ones who can recognize their own failings in this regard.
How did we get back on the conservative/liberal track?
Conservatives make fun of disabled kids and approve of it and Liberals defend disabled kids that are being made fun of, thus deeming anybody that is even somewhat seen as making fun of disabled kids a Conservative? Is that your definition of a Conservatism? Last I checked, Liberals and Conservatives alike were able to make fun of almost anything without that something defining their political or societal ideals.
Are we talking politics, or are we talking values? Just need to clarify that before I can go into this any further.
I’m being chastized by people who like to make fun of disabled kids. That’s something new, I guess.
Do you people hang nooses from your cubicle walls (with a happy face drawn inside, just so everyone knows it’s a “joke”)? Would you call people who pointed out the inhumanity of that “joke” hypersensitive?
Explain the difference between a noose and that photo.
You asked for it, I’ll give it to you. Un-sensitive, crude as hell, I apologize in advance.
You have to screw up to get the noose.
yup…sure enuf. Idahogie bi-passed the whole point of the article and went straight into arguing his next case again! You really do enjoy arguing for arguments sake dont you hoag? So yes in deed, I second that comment: “a piece of work for sure”. (not that theres anything wrong with that, dont get me wrong)
I am in no way attempting to upset, put down or otherwise hurt another posters feelings. Wouldn’t want them to go home crying tonight!
Well put, Anonymous.
And Marcus – I brought up the liberal/conservative issue again, for very good reason. You will notice that it is the conservatives who are defending the picture and telling everyone else to “lighten up.” The reason they do that is that they want to maintain the right to put down people of lower order than themselves. They want to be able to make fun of certain classes of human beings: gays, transgendered, undocumented workers, disabled people, etc. That’s what conservatism promotes: the maintenance of class differences. They want the existing class structures maintained (e.g., no marriage for gays, tax cuts for the wealthy, walls on the border). That is almost the definition of conservatism.
The photo mocked a class of people. The conservatives here think they should be able to do that, merely because they’ve always been able to do it without the embarassment of being pointed out. They get annoyed when people point it out. You’ll notice that Sisyphus was very polite in how he pointed it out. Then the whining and complaining started. That’s what I was reacting to more than the photo itself. That “let me continue to mock disabled kids – shame on you for pointing it out” attitude. They start blaming the people they offended.
That’s some personal responsibility right there.
I find it an honor that you people are annoyed with me. The fact that the complaints are coming from those who mock disabled kids, I’m rather proud, in fact.
I definitely want to continue this discussion. You have some good points, and (in my opinion) some bad. I have to head home, do the family schtuff and I’ll be back on to see how this has evolved a bit later this evening.
I think the main problem here is that open mindedness is thrown on the window, altogether and make debate next to impossible. I think that was Open Mind’s point anyway. I’m definitely open, and want to see some serious input that isn’t downright insulting to the other group.
I just found you guys, don’t want it all to fall apart because of a couple of words that don’t entirely adequately describe us.
Speak with you this evening.
If you don’t get why “retard” is the new n-word then I can’t help you. Try reading the article again from someone who explains why it hurts. Your stance does clearly indicate that you have little association with the disabled. And that certainly would make you ignorant. I had hoped my home town had evolved a little. But that picture certainly can’t be defended by the victim’s cry of political correctness out of control. You bring shame to the state that is hosting the Special Olympics. With demeaning negative stereotyping like that, I don’t blame them if they never return. Can’t you see the value of people?
“How did I know somebody was going to complain about that picture!! I “–that would be your conscience. Listen to it.
“Lighten up syphilis.”–oh yeah, that’s elevating the conversation. Exhibit a to the post.
I honestly don’t think the picture is appropriate on a public forum. This is one of those things that maybe you are going to text message someone who may find it funny but not post it where people who may have a mentally challenged family member they struggle with, is going to find it anything but offensive. Honestly, I don’t mine jokes about my ethnic background, religion , etc., I’m used to them. And some of them are so true, they’re funny. But if I had a mentally challenged child and saw that, I would probably be offended, just as a black person might be offended if you used the “N” word.
I also think that for those of you who love attacking Idahogie for some very good responses are attacking without merit. I agree with Open Mind, debate and discuss the issues and quit with the put downs because you don’t want to muster up enough thought to respond appropriately.
Back on topic (which several people have accused me of missing, without basis):
I’ve been involved in most of the “altercations” lately. It appears to me from the comments that a few people are not used to being challenged. It appears that a certain group of people want to be able to continue making the same kinds of insulting and false statements they’ve always made. They are annoyed that I won’t be polite. Before me, I believe that Crystal was not allowing these commenters the freedom to make nonsensical or insulting statements without being called on it.
The times, they are a-changin’. Get used to it.
Boomer captured it perfectly here.
The topic of the photo is a perfect illustration. The commenter who posted it originally, Marcus, made a great comment – recognizing that others have a point and promising to devote some time to discussing it.
Others on this thread got indignant that anybody would be so “hypersensitive” that they would stand up for the dignity of disabled kids. Instead of reflecting on their own behavior, they get angry, and attack the people who pointed out their insensitivity to a particularly vulnerable and defenseless minority.
That group could learn a lesson from Marcus.
PS. Nobody has answered my questions (except for Marcus’s attempt, which I don’t quite understand):
1. Who has the courage to show the picture to the boy’s mother and explain how it isn’t insulting?
2. Would you hang a noose in your office, and take offense at anyone who pointed it out? If not, what’s the difference?
I also think that comment #10 needs to be edited ms moderator.
Whats wrong with number 10?
Nevermind, I see it now. I don’t think misspelling somebodys name qualifies as “editing”. Posters misspell other posters name every day on this blog, some on purpose some not. If Ms Mod is going to edit this one, they’ll need to go through the whole site and edit them all, like Guest of a Guest’s acronym, which is much worse than #10 IMO.
Guest House purposely(?) misstated Sisyphus’s name to something derogatory.
Sorry A – posting as you posted. However, if you think calling someone “GofaG” is worse than calling them “syphilis,” then you must think that being gay is worse than having a severe disease. Is that so?
Plus, I think I may have been the first to shorten Guest of a Guest’s name. I didn’t notice anything about it when I did it – just saving time. Some commenters accused me of being purposely insulting. I quickly apologized, and said I wouldn’t do it again. I notice that Guest of a Guest’s defenders are using the acronym now.
We’ll see if Guest House has enough class to apologize for his ‘typo.’
I hardly think that was unintentional.
Open Mind, very good post. Thanks for trying. You should be officially labelled a “Mother Hen” now.
What’s funny is, at first glance when I first saw that name, I thought it said the same thing. So I can see how a mistake like that could have been made.
As for GofaG Idahogie, you can’t honestly tell us you didn’t think of it as derogatory when you posted it. At least that’s not how it came off to me as you were both in a heated argument (or debate if you will) at th time you posted it. And only after a bunch of people metioned it, ,,did you apologize. (it certainly wasn’t “quickly” as you’d have everyone believe) But I agree, lets just wait and see if Guest House acknowleges it as just a typo.
Geez, whatever happened to “free speech”?
I agree, he did try. And I wouldn’t say “mother hen”. Mother hen is when someone is constantly scolding or “correcting” other posters when he or she doesn’t agree with what they say or how they say it. Certain posters do that ALL the time like we’re in grade school or something.
Pick a name Anoneemouse/Anonymous.
Well I know that Nem and I have made the same statements and been accused of “scolding” and called a mother hen for it, which neither of us minds incidentally. So take it as you will. I am not sure why it is difficult for some people to just have clean debates and discussions here, nor do I see why the constant belittling of posters is needed. So speaking of grade school, how about getting past the insults?
So apparently you are a moderator or your double post wouldn’t have been deleted so fast. As a moderator, perhaps there is responsibility that goes with it.
Regarding the picture, I worked with the disabled in group homes all through college and am fairly desensitized to such things. I wasn’t offended by the picture since I’ve seen much worse.
Though I’m not offended and did find it a little amusing, I personally think humor like that is cowardly since it’s at the expense of those who can’t defend themselves very well. In particular it’s the use of the picture that’s pretty low class.
Therefore, to compensate for the cowardly aspect of it, it should be extremely funny. I don’t think the humor value in this case quite met that standard. That of course is more subjective.
I think some people could stand to have a thicker skin about such things and on the other side, there is a clear element of cowardice in the use of that kind of humor.
I have a name but thank you for your concern. (I haven’t used “Anonymous” and if you think I have, I urge you to check with Joe to see, if it concerns you that much)
I agree with your last statement. That was the point of this post. i just don’t understand why certain posters feel the need to constantly argue for arguments sake.
Perhaps you could help us out with that?
Well said bluernote.
Anoneemouse, Sorry I was hoping you could. Unless someone was posting exactly your thoughts within 30 seconds and suddenly it’s gone, it was you. Nice try though. Now kindly pick better fights. That was hardly worth it.
Yes, CR67 – I didn’t recognize any slight. I still don’t. But others did, so I apologized as soon as I saw their comments. But you can believe what you want.
Now here comes Anoneemouse complaining about the behavior of others, just because those other commenters are complaining. Funny.
Again, I have no problem with differences of opinion. There are some people around here who can’t recognize the difference between differing opinions and insulting, nasty behavior. Making fun of disabled kids is not acceptable in decent conversation. Misrepresenting what people say is also not acceptable. Calling people names is not acceptable. Refrain from doing those things, and I won’t complain.
Talk about hijacking a discussion…
I’ll start by introducing myself a bit. I’m 22 years old, happily married, with two children that I married into and one that entered my life last October. I can most definitely be described as an average middle class male living the lower middle class lifestyle with my family. They’re my numero uno.
I believe in working for a living, keeping what I put my eight hours into and property ownership. I’m all about gun owner rights, though I don’t own a gun (yet). I believe that people deserve the chance to make up their own mind on being productive memberd of society if they are physically capable of doing so, and I believe in supporting those that are absolutely incapable. I believe in immigration, in keeping our country strong by intermingling different cultures, as long as they are on the same page as I am concerning working for a living and they take a legal route to enter and remain in the country. I like to think that I’m a pretty down to earth fellow.
Do I classify myself as a Conservative? No, though I do have strong conservative views and values. Would the average individual talking politics with me classify me as a Conservative? You bet your bottom dollar he would.
There’s a split right now running through the whole country. I’ve been hearing about it for years. CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham…it’s all the same. One side fighting against the other. On a daily basis I take it all in, think about it, and let out a sigh of relief that I’m not stuck on either side of the divide. The citizens of this country, for the most part, are in my position…though most of them are a bit older than me. In a lot of ways, my generation really is an embarassment for me.
You have college kids around the country wasting their tuition fees on an education that I would have loved to have had a chance at. My cards weren’t set up that way, and I accept it. Then you watch the news and see the democratic frontrunner, this hip dude that has all of his ducks in a row and will be in the oval office come January for sure…and then you notice that all of the policies that he has made public are right in line with socialism, and he’s not that cool anymore, only most of these college kids don’t see a problem with it. Free health care, sign me up! I understand the need to be healthy, but at more of an expense than medical care currently is for care that isn’t up to par, I think I’ll continue to shell out $250/mo for it and hope that others pick up a policy.
Then you have the Republicans, hell of a split group here. None of them want Obama to get the job, and then a quarter of them realize what the other option is and either decide not to vote or shoot a vote to Obama. I am not a fan of McCain, think he’s marginally better suited for office than Obama, but overall it’s the same boat only instead of social programs galore and a way out of the war, it’s social programs galore and the possibility of being able to win the war (but that’s another debate in itself and can be taken several ways).
The reason I went into candidates was to highlight the social programs that are already running rampant and those that are yet to be announced, much the less voted on. We’re cruising right on past the state of acceptance of social programs and right on toward dependence of social programs. Welfare, health care, SSI/SSA (though this is very beneficial in some cases), government funded college grants…we’re zooming toward a kick in the ass. All of this money that benefits some of us comes from all of us, and as everyone is well aware, the good old U.S. of A. is not doing so hot financially right now. Raise taxes, lower taxes, balance the numbers…in the end it’s coming from our pockets. I would love to help those that need it, but a lot of these folks receiving benefits don’t/won’t put in the effort to deserve them. Some of them aren’t even legal citizens, and have never put in toward the programs. I definitely have a problem funding their existence when they won’t take it upon themselves to at least attempt to fund their own.
And from my view on candidates and one aspect of the current fight between the two “sides”, let’s go back to what exactly the words “Liberal” and “Conservative” mean. How do they line up with what you believe? How and why are they applied to you based on what you say or how you live your life? This is the main point, and I figured that knowing a few of my ideas would be helpful. Where would you place me on the Liberal/Conservative chart? I’d like to know, because I normally stick myself in the category of common sense.
Love you guys. Hope to spur some good, healthy discussion.
Marcus
Now that’s a good post. I don’t agree with all of it, but it’s good nonetheless. Thanks Marcus and welcome to this (sometimes soap opera) forum!
Incidentally and this isn’t the first time its happened, I need to mark my posts better. When I said I hardly think that was unintentional, I was referring to comment #10. Idahogies comment came as I was posting and yes, I do think Idahogies post was unintentional simply because while I don’t know him well, I know he isn’t going to knowingly call anyone a “fag”.
I had to explain to Nem just last week after doing pretty much the same thing, posting without making it clear which post I was referring to. Dang, guess I too, need to communicate better.
Having reviewed the photo in question I have to say that yes someone who is uptight about the humanity of comedic pop art is being hypersensitive about the subject. The child in the photo is not even the butt of the joke. He certainly wasn’t singled out. It was just an available photo, I’m sure. The fun is distinctly being pointed not at real retards but at euphemistic “retards” who try to “win” pointless internet discussions by turning them into arguments. And anyway, whoever said jokes had to be tasteful? On the web it would be very easy to find much more offensive material, as well. Point your browser to what doesn’t offend and let the rest be.
Open Mind, great post.
You make excellent points.
Well said Wilson! Thank you! Although I’m sure you’ll get blasted for calling someone a retard instead of mentally challenged. The thing is, there’s no pleasing some people on this site. But they are the same people who I’m sure have never Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia or a hundred other hilarious comedians that tell tasteless jokes and don’t let political correctness run their lives.
As for #10, sorry about that. When I first saw it I couldn’t believe somebody would have a username like that! lol I misread it and I must have had it in my head as I was typing.
I think true freedom of speech is being lost little by little in this country and it’s a real shame.
Guest House, thank you for the apology, that’s cool and I’m sure will be appreciated by others, mainly the person you were speaking of. And by the way, I love Carlos Mencia. As I stated earlier, I hear jokes all the time about my ethnic (no I’m not hispanic, re: Mencia) and religion. The point is, there’s a time and a place for all of that. Here is probably not appropriate. I think that’s all anyone was trying to say. I love comedy, I love a good joke, some jokes are better kept elsewhere.
Thanks, Guest House.
However, I don’t agree with you about comedians. There is a way to be funny, even involving racial humor, without being mocking. There is self-referential humor that uses minority stereotypes without demeaning the minority. Sarah Silverman’s “chink” joke comes to mind.
I saw George Carlin when he played here, and he didn’t cross the line into cruelty. If he did, I wouldn’t think he was funny. When Gallagher played the Colonial, he did cross that line. He had a volunteer kid up on stage. When he found out that the kid was LDS, he turned to the audience and said, “This is what happens when you marry an ugly Mormon woman!” He probably lost half the audience that night. He lost my wife and I, and we’re not even LDS. That moment is the only thing I remember clearly about his entire show. I remember he smashed some stuff, too.
And Wilson – I’ll believe your point as soon as the phrase “Wilson Masters” (or whatever your actual name is) becomes synonymous with “flaming pile of shit.” Then, when people say, “George Bush is the biggest wilson masters in history,” you’ll have some idea of how it makes that boy’s mother feel to see that picture.
Again, if you think you’d be comfortable explaining to the boy’s mother why the picture is funny, then I might go part of the way toward believing you. For some reason, nobody will answer that question.
Hoagie,
Would you disagree with me if I told you that it was dark outside?
lol Bundy!
Idahogie, I was just wondering how you thought that picture and it’s caption was “mocking”?
And is it necessary for you to swear? That is one of our rules in case you weren’t aware. It doesn’t offend me, but just wondering if you thought it was necessary for you to get vulgar with your reply to Wilson.
Bundy – obviously it would depend upon what time of day you asked. Did you really need to ask that? Please read this post again. Take your time with it. Really digest it. Especially the third paragraph. If you need some help with it, just ask.
Do you just like pretending to be a dork?
Guest House – Do you see the sentence I just wrote? Do you think it’s insulting to Bundy? You should, because it is. And I only wrote it to illustrate this point: I could claim that, technically, I didn’t call him a dork, when I really did. Similarly, the photo caption doesn’t call the young athlete a ‘retard.’ But again, could you show that picture to the boy’s mother and explain to her why it’s not insulting to her son?
I’ve answered multiple questions on this thread, and I have yet to see a single person answer that question. What are you all afraid of?
I don’t know her or her son and have no reason to believe that it is insulting to either one.
For one, parents will surprise you. Each one is different. That photo without the caption is likely one that she has seen before and has hanging on the wall. Include the caption, and you’ve got a mildly insulting piece directed at fools on the internet. I seriously doubt that she cares all that much that her child was portrayed the same way that a good deal of people think of the disabled anyway, and I’d discuss it with her in a heartbeat.
Hell, I’d talk to the kid even. At this point, he’s a grown man.
On a similar note, how’s this for retarded: http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/3-29-08001.jpg
Yeah, Marcus. And maybe she’s a sadistic mother who enjoys mocking her son. Or maybe she resents him for being born a retard, and maybe she’s the one who created the caption in the first place! She would have access to the photo, wouldn’t she! It all makes sense now!
And maybe you have an IQ that hovers in the mid-50s, and I should stop wondering why you don’t get it.
Or perhaps I should assume that you’re normal. And perhaps you should assume that she is, too. Her kid’s picture, with a caption saying “If you argue on the internet, you’re like a retard in the Special Olympics” … oh, and here’s a picture of a … what is he now? A fine young athlete? Or a retard in the Special Olympics?
Come on, Marcus! Are you really going to twist yourself in such a pretzel that you can’t see this? You seemed a lot smarter than that earlier.
Look at the picture again. It says “DON’T BE A RETARD LIKE THIS KID!” Was your mother that horrible that she wouldn’t be insulted? Why do you assume that his mother is?
Sorry to be so harsh, Marcus. I do appreciate that you’re the first an only person to address my question. You get points for that, unlike the rest of the har-har-laugh-at-the-retard gang here.
But I hate to see everybody here rationalizing a plainly hateful sentiment. You can pretend that maybe there’s a circumstance under which this might not be insulting to somebody that you don’t know. But that is sort of pathological behavior.
I can imagine that there are circumstances under which maybe you really don’t want that $100 bill sitting on your coffee table when I visit you, but if I act on that belief, it’s theft.
And maybe that kid’s mother thinks it’s OK that her kid is held up as a bad example, but for the people here to be laughing at her kid based on that belief – that’s cruel.
Do you really not see that?
Every time I feel stupid, I just come to this site and read the comments. I leave feeling a lot better. This thread has certainly met my expectations.
Got that right bloop.
First Idahogie asks people to answer his questions, when Marcus does, Idahogie blasts him for his answer in comment 56 going as far as to insult him by suggesting he has a low IQ and THAN suggesting his Mother was a horrible person. Only to apologize 10 minutes later. As well as blasting Wilson in comment 51 going as far as to call him a flaming pile of S$!%. Yeah, that’s real mature Idahogie. I’ve seen you do this to a number of people in a number of posts. Are you off your bi-polar medication or is that just your strategy? You ask that others post intelligent civil discussions yet you continue to put down every poster that has a different viewpoint or opinion than you. You completely missed the whole point of Open Mind’s post and instead decided to focus on one persons comment so you could argue about it all night. And than you wonder why you get a bad rap. People aren’t afraid to debate you like you seem to think. The fact that your arrogance and hipocrisy towers over your intellect is what leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths. Try practicing what you preach a little more and people may actually begin to take you serious.
That’s just my opinion.
So, I see that The Artiste’ has no response other than to attack me personally.
Well done. Come back when you have a point that somebody cares about.
Now you know how it feels. You put other posters down and than apologize for it 10 minutes later that it’s supposed to be sincere. And you’ve done this to numerous people on numerous posts. Yet when somebody calls you on it, you’re the one being attacked. Typical!
(obviously you cared enough to respond)
Idahogie, I think you need to learn by the child in that picture’s example. Judging by the expression on his face, he knows what life is all about, which puts him a step above just about everyone here, myself included.
i have to agree with Artiste’. You’ve done the same thing to me on a couple of occassions hoagie where you’ve gone off on me regarding my opinion or a comment of mine, and then apologized for it a few posts later. Its good to see you can acknowledge your “harsh words”, but perhaps you should start thinking twice before posting them in the first place. Than you wouldn’t have to go back and apologize later. I think that’s what OpenMind was talking about originally before this topic turned into whether or not its politically correct to talk about people in the special olympics.
Thanks for all the wonderful advice, people.
Now can you get back to the issue?
#59 and #63….ditto to you both; very well put and very civil . . .
Marcus, the picture appended to #55. . . . I am ROFL…..please, please tell me that isn’t you?
please?
your posts are wonderful
That’s easterner’s idea of “very civil.”
But back to the topic. Marcus was explaining why a mother wouldn’t mind at all that her disabled child was literally used as a poster boy for “retards.”
Why was that, again?
You all can take this opportunity to attack me personally again (which has zero effect), or you can address the issue (as every post of mine on this thread has done).
I had a hell of a response put together to you Idahogie, but got an error page on “submit”. I don’t remember my words, can’t do it any better than it was done, but basically I see you as an insecure individual. You are not able to laugh at yourself, you are not able to laugh at another’s expense, and as a result you feel the need to defend everybody as if they do not have the capability to defend themselves. Everybody is different, everybody knows it, but not many are courageous enough to point out flaws and run with it.
We’re all different. Point it out. Accept it. We’re built on it.
As for comment #55, it be me in that link.
http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/?action=view¤t=mandv.jpg
Great point:
“We’re all different. Point it out. Accept it. We’re built on it”.
You don’t know anything about me, Marcus. How about turning your very impressive psychoanalytical mind back to the subject?
Do you think the kid’s mother appreciates her disabled son being used as a poster child for “retards”?
I’m not asking whether she might, conceiveably, under some circumstances, not mind. I’m asking whether a normal person would find it offensive.
Given your answers on this question so far, I don’t think you know people very well at all. So your insight about me is both irrelevant and mistaken.
Again, I give you credit as being the only person on this entire thread who defends the picture and is willing to engage the subject rather than just make personal attacks. The rest of them are just plain cowards.
Yeah. We’re all different. Point it out. Accept it. And make fun of the weird ones.
Marcus, now that’s good comedy right there!
Great picture……(with the ability to laugh at himself!)
Ya look like you should have a pirate hat on and be servin ice tea to tourists….like in that Free credit report . com commercial! LOL (reference courtesy of Eastener & 006.5’s comments in the chatbox earlier)
We ARE all different. Recognize and move on.
You continue to call posters names. Yet when somebody points out the fact that you do this all the time to other people and then apologize for it when you come to your senses, that’s ok I guess. It’s ok for you to put down other peoples opinions and/or views, but when they do it, their “attacking you” and are “cowards”. You make absolutely no sense!
Thus the point of this post. But you can’t seem to get past the “picture”.
thanks, CR67, I just spit coffee all over my keyboard; OMG, with the right Pirate hat, Marcus COULD be the credit report guy. . . .
too funny . . . .
Marcus, as stated above, the ability to make fun of yourself really hits home the point you were making earlier. . .touche.
You didn’t know CR?? It’s ok to call posters “cowards” and “flaming piles of S#!%” or tell them they have “low IQ’s”……AS LONG AS YOU IMMEDIATELY APOLOGIZE.
That’s Idahogies rule, otherwise you’re just “attacking”.
I have called you all cowards, because you make fun of disable children, and get defensive about it, calling the people who point it out “hypersensitive,” then refuse to engage in discussion at all – except for pointing out what you think are the failures of others.
I haven’t called anybody else a name. I said “if your name became synonymous with ‘flaming pile of #!%’, then you’d know how hurtful ‘retard’ is.’ I said that Marcus was assuming things about the boy’s mother that he shouldn’t – just like I shouldn’t assume that Marcus has a low IQ.
You should read more carefully.
In the past dozen posts, have any of you addressed the subject (except for Marcus)?
Again, CR67 and The Artiste’, I haven’t called anybody a name. I have pointed out your cowardly behavior.
But as you guys say … we’re all different. Point it out. Move on.
From my perception, you guys like to disagree with hogie, you create your own issue, separate from the topic, and pummel him on it. You’ve impugned his mental capacity and mental health in much the same way you used a person with down syndrome as an object of ridicule. In so doing you are endeavoring to berate him into silence when he attempts to bring the issue back on topic, not so subtly creating an echo chamber. Its patronizing and condescending. That does remind me of home. Just answer his question.
And please, I’ve had my pseudonym twisted into syphillus before but I’ve never heard such a feeble excuse such as that. You don’t expect me to believe that it was unintentional. One of us would have to be really stupid.
Good points Sisyphus.
Even when it’s not called for at least idahogie apologizes once in a while. I don’t see any of these ditto-heads who jump on the bandwagon to bash him ever apologize for anything. That’s getting to be expected here though. Plenty of people here have more to apologize for than idahogie does. But I doubt they ever will.
Artiste, your comment #74 says it better than I ever could. . . .
have a nice day, all. . . .
I don’t apologize for my views, and I never will. I mean every word that I speak/type, and there is never a reason to apologize for speaking your mind.
Sisyphus: You brought this discussion off topic and Idahogie crusaded for your cause. If that’s us “ditto-heads” (as “You” so graciously described us), then we’re somehow physically forcing you to post off topic while at the same time commanding Idahogie to post asinine comments about us “ditto-heads” and irrelevant questions as to the feelings of the mother of the downs child in question. Ingenious.
At this point you folks have shocked even me. I’ll have to tell my pet midget about this when I get home…he won’t believe it!
Good point Marcus. I speak my mind just as others here do and I’m supposed to apologize for it? I don’t think so! Not this “ditto-head”!
Have a “mentally challenged” day!
Stupid is as stupid does.
I would like to give a big shout out to Sisy for hi-jacking the post back on comment 7.
As for comment 77, the only reason the Hoagster apologizes is because he realizes he let his emotions get the best of him by degrading and calling other posters names when their opinion doesn’t jive with his. I think CR said it best when he suggested “thinking twice before posting and this way you don’t have to go back and apologize later”. Words to live by imo.
Us “ditto-heads” won’t apologize because we say what we mean and mean what we say. How cool is that? So there you go, my words of wisdom for the bleeding heart liberals. (free of charge of course) ((no refunds))
I don’t think these guys will ever fess up to what they do wrong. Gh, Marcus, etc., seem incapable of grasping simple facts. But if they refuse to see where they may be at fault, nothing we say or do will make them see otherwise. I kind of feel sorry for them.
#76, #77, #82: read this and then maybe re-think who is doing what to whom . . . and who started the name-calling on this post:
“Hypersensitivity, my ass. If you think it’s a funny picture, you’re a sick human being. And if you think people calling you a sick human being are being ‘hypersensitive,’ then you are a sick, conservative human being.”
Have a great day!
How quickly they forget huh? I’m telling you it’s that “apology scam” he’s got going on. People instantly forget the nastiness once an apology is thrown out there. Either that or calling someone a “sick human being” or “coward” doesn’t count in their book.
Thanks Eastr
So essentially you’re basing your information off of one post. I suppose that’s very convenient but hardly factual. But, I don’t expect you to be able to tell right from wrong given some of your posts, what may be exaggerating facts and what may not be. However, if that somehow gives you a feeling of superiority, then I say, go with it. You too, have a great day!
“I mean every word that I speak/type, and there is never a reason to apologize for speaking your mind.”–lol, that’s really funny. You tell your wife that?
Who is asking you to apologize? In a way your comment is an apology, for your refusal to apologize for mean, thoughtless, negative stereotyping.
“Us “ditto-heads” won’t apologize because we say what we mean and mean what we say. How cool is that?”–uh you do see the inherent contradiction in your statement here don’t you? Regurgitating another’s point of view is nothing of which to be so proud. It displays a lack of skepticism and critical analysis.
I’ve been angry here – with reason. I’m defending a child who is not here to defend himself. I haven’t called anybody names. I have described your behavior. I’m proud of what I’ve done here. I’d put it on my resume.
You all have spent your time defending … what? Your right to mock a Special Olympian and not have it pointed out? That’s something to be proud of?
Guest House and Marcus: Marcus posts a picture in #3. Sisyphus politely says that it’s inappropriate in #7. Immediately, three people (including both of you) jump on him for the incivility of pointing it out. And yet Sisyphus is the one who hijacked the thread??? Are you really that clueless?
And I doubt anyone here, including Guest House and Marcus, will address that inconsistency. You all are experts at ignoring everything that you do wrong. “I’ll never apologize for anything!” There’s a name for people who say that. You diverted the thread, Marcus, and you should acknowledge that it wasn’t Sisyphus.
I have been here almost single-handly dealing with all of you who want to laugh at disabled kids without being told that it’s shameful. I’ve tried to respond to as many statements and questions that you all have posed to me – I’ve done the best that I can. I’ve complimented Marcus on how he’s addressed the subject. I also thanked Guest House for his apology for misspelling Sisyphus’s name.
Except for Marcus, who gave a couple of attempts, the rest of you have completely embarassed yourselves. You’ve resorted to personal attacks and mutual cheerleading without adding anything to the conversation. You are cowards, and you should be ashamed.
Marcus: As the only one who’s had the courage to touch this subject, I’ll ask you this: what makes you think that the boy’s mother would have no problem with that “joke” when every activist group is currently pushing a boycott of the movie “Tropic Thunder”? They are all very sensitive to the use of the word “retard”. Why do you think that boy’s mother would think it was funny to have her child called that?
Seriously think about it. Imagine if it were your child. How would you react if someone said to you after your child won a medal – “yeah, but it’s just the Special Olympics, and your kid is still a retard.” If you say anything other than “that would hurt me,” then you are lying. More likely, you’d beat the crap out of that person.
I’m not trying to talk any of you into apologizing. I’m trying to get at least one of you to recognize that empathy is the key here. You don’t say hurtful things about a disabled kid, and laugh it off just because he’s not here to defend himself. And you don’t attack the people who point out that you are being cruel.
You are all adults who have a choice in how you behave. That picture shows a disabled boy and calls him a “retard.” If I’ve insulted you, you deserve it. That boy doesn’t.
(comment was deleted per site Admin. Please feel free to post anonymously, just don’t post a comment using somebody else’s identity and pretend to be them. Thank you.)
“Guest House and Marcus: Marcus posts a picture in #3. Sisyphus politely says that it’s inappropriate in #7. Immediately, three people (including both of you) jump on him for the incivility of pointing it out. And yet Sisyphus is the one who hijacked the thread??? Are you really that clueless?”
Sisyphus is the one that got us off track. Making an off-topic response to a discussion usually derails it. Are you really that clueless?
“‘I’ll never apologize for anything!” There’s a name for people who say that.’”
Please enlighten me, what is the name?
“I have been here almost single-handly dealing with all of you who want to laugh at disabled kids without being told that it’s shameful. I’ve tried to respond to as many statements and questions that you all have posed to me – I’ve done the best that I can. I’ve complimented Marcus on how he’s addressed the subject. I also thanked Guest House for his apology for misspelling Sisyphus’s name.”
Thanks for the compliment. Obviously it wasn’t written sincerely, it was a playing chip for a later confrontation.
“Except for Marcus, who gave a couple of attempts, the rest of you have completely embarassed yourselves. You’ve resorted to personal attacks and mutual cheerleading without adding anything to the conversation. You are cowards, and you should be ashamed.”
You speak as though you’re above us all, which makes you no better than any of us that find the picture from #3 amusing. Get off your high horse.
“Marcus: As the only one who’s had the courage to touch this subject, I’ll ask you this: what makes you think that the boy’s mother would have no problem with that “joke” when every activist group is currently pushing a boycott of the movie “Tropic Thunder”? They are all very sensitive to the use of the word “retard”. Why do you think that boy’s mother would think it was funny to have her child called that?”
It wasn’t courage that made me post, it was a lack of anything better to do at the time. I had a moment to type out a comment, and I took it. The boy’s mother may be exactly like you, in which case, in a face to face confrontation, I’d probably get shot in the face. If, however, she has an understanding of genetics and the difference in each and everybody’s make-up (like most parents with handicapped or “ugly” children), she understands the position and accepts that there’s not a thing that she can do about it. I don’t recall stating that she wouldn’t have a problem with it, but I don’t believe that she’d care much about the comments being made or the picture being used to portray them. I also didn’t say that she would think it was funny.
As for activist groups…do you really need my answer? I am of the belief that activism causes more problems than it solves. That’s not to say that pacifism is the way to go, but there is a happy medium. Why get your panties in a bunch over somebody else’s published material?
“Seriously think about it. Imagine if it were your child. How would you react if someone said to you after your child won a medal – “yeah, but it’s just the Special Olympics, and your kid is still a retard.” If you say anything other than “that would hurt me,” then you are lying. More likely, you’d beat the crap out of that person.”
I’ll preface this with the fact that I don’t “beat the crap out people” without the threat of “having the crap beaten out of me”. If my son (born last October) had popped out retarded, I would have been a bit upset. Upset for his ability to function, upset for his future that would likely be full of ridicule, and upset for my pocket book. Before he was born, I believed that him coming out mentally or physically disabled would be a world-ending happening. At this point, if anything does come along, I’m prepared and ready to help him excel and become self sufficient in every way possible, as well as make sure that he’s developmentally ahead of the curve in his group of peers.
Would I personally be upset that he was in a picture with that caption? Probably for a few seconds. Would I be upset at the creator or those that use the image? Absolutely not. He’s my son, no matter what caption is on a picture, and I know that he would be tickled to death that he’s in a picture circulating the net, regardless of the message. If it comes down to it, my “developmentally challenged” child will become very familiar with the word retard, and will be taught that it’s not entirely acceptable, but it’s nothing to flip out over either.
“I’m not trying to talk any of you into apologizing. I’m trying to get at least one of you to recognize that empathy is the key here. You don’t say hurtful things about a disabled kid, and laugh it off just because he’s not here to defend himself. And you don’t attack the people who point out that you are being cruel.
You are all adults who have a choice in how you behave. That picture shows a disabled boy and calls him a “retard.” If I’ve insulted you, you deserve it. That boy doesn’t.”
Has anybody here said anything hurtful about the disabled? I have not. I posted a picture to make a statement about the state of this community as I saw it. Those that have been disrupting the community (not that us “ditto-heads” aren’t to blame at all, but I’ve seen more hurtful communications come from the folks protesting this), as I predicted, took major offense and blamed the imagery. Blame me if you want for posting it, make your case that the disruption is not the fault of you, but don’t shift the focus of an entire comments section of a blog entry to “OH MY GOD HE POSTED A PICTURE OF A MENTALLY CHALLENGED INDIVIDUAL AND THE WORD RETARD WAS INCLUDED”, because that’s not the issue and never was.
I live in a diverse family. I’m German/Hill People/Native American, my wife is German/Redneck/Cuban, my daughter is Mulatto, my older son is Irish/German/Redneck/Cuban and my baby is German/Hill People/Redneck/Cuban/Native American. In short, we’re all American. My daughter gets a bunch of flak at school from the other kids for being “Mexican”, but she’s a black/white mix. It will make her stronger, it has made her stronger. We’re very open about where all of us came from and what our differences are with the kids, and they comprehend…they understand. They know that people are often times intolerant of people that differ from themselves, and that the intolerant are best ignored up front but laughed at behind closed doors.
By sticking your neck out and not allowing an apple to be called an apple, you’re effectively intolerant. You (and those activist groups) are not giving that child the chance to prove anybody otherwise, because they are being stifled by intolerance…give those that are capable some independence! If you can comprehend running inside the lines at a track meet, you can learn to do just about anything! I have a problem with the protective shell that’s drawn around everybody, because it doesn’t promote PROGRESS and SELF RELIANCE. We don’t need to help anybody, but we do have the responsibility not to hold those that do need some help back by stifling their desire and ability to learn.
Please think about what the hell you are saying before you say it. You insult my intelligence as well as your own when you infer that people aren’t capable of moving forward, but rather that they need help to keep running in place. Stop speaking for others and allow them to speak for themselves.
- Marcus
(This is reposted by BluerNote after it was deleted because if the use of someone else’s name. The comment is below.)
You let the childish ones get under your skin a bit too much there idahohogie but that you hit one out of the park. Even tho the smelly sock puppets and meat puppets will ignore that fact and deny it and start spammin this place with their drival disguised as response, it is obvious to anyone who hasn’t bothered to choose a side.
Click my name for an organization that is trying to address the thoughtlessness behind the use of the r-word.
“Our choice of language frames how we think about others. It is time to respect and value people with intellectual disabilities. It is time to accept and welcome them as our friends and neighbors.”
I’m kind of bored with the “controversy” here but I did find something else of interest when I was skimming. I’m in total agreement with the following from Marcus:
” I am of the belief that activism causes more problems than it solves. ”
This reminds me of a perspective I read in Business Week the other day. The author pointed out that “activists” are “lobbyists”. That hadn’t occured to me before but it’s basically true. Each one brings different images to my mind (e.g. one more formal than the other perhaps), but their purpose is often fundamentally the same – to influence policy one way or the other.
Thanks mr Bluernote!! I appreciate it!
And thank you Marcus for such a very well thought out explanation and “answer” to a certain posters questions. I am very impressed with your comments in # 89 and couldn’t have put it any better myself.
I am glad to have you here as a new poster and I look forward to your participation in many posts to come.
I think that comment about says it all. Excellent work!
How exactly is a comment responding directly to your comment off-topic?
I’ve already been warned about swear words. As Sisyphus said, you should ask your wife.
Obviously. Why don’t you enlighten all of us as to how you know that. I think that for a person who doesn’t understand the concept of generousity towards others, it may seem like a foreign notion. However, even if your personal experience leads you to believe that compliments are only given to gain something for later, rest assured that other people feel differently.
I don’t laugh at Special Olympians when people call them “retards.” I also don’t expect to be able to say whatever I want without having others comment on it. Given all that you and I know about each other, that set of facts does separate us quite a bit.
Then what explains everyone else’s posts – nobody would address the question I posed, even though they were making multiple posts (mostly insults, almost none substantive)? If you don’t want credit for being better than the other disability-mockers, then that’s find. I’ll lump you in with them.
More “conservative compassion” there. You know nothing about me. But you do know that conservatives with grudges go on murderous sprees a whole lot more often than anybody else except the insane. So throwing insults like that is kind of embarassing.
And your basis for saying this is … ? You know nothing about her. But you’re also trying to justify your reprehensible behavior and refusal to admit that the picture is insulting. So isn’t it amazing that you think she agrees with you? I have provided you with evidence that the people in her position don’t appreciate the word “retard.” So … your opinion versus my facts.
No. I really don’t care what you think about “activism.” I didn’t ask for it, either.
I don’t know what your talking about. What published material?
You miss my point. I said that the emotion you’d feel if someone said your kid was basically sub-human (i.e., less than a normal kid because it was the Special Olympics, and he was just a “retard”) would be closer to that end of the spectrum than to the lackadasical “I don’t really care” attitude. The fact that you say otherwise makes me inclined not to believe you.
You absolutely have. That’s the point. And I think that I will have proof for you soon. In the meantime, I have the generic proof that support groups for parents of the disabled HATE the word “retard.” Given that, it really doesn’t matter about your hypothetical mother-who-understands-genetics-and-doesn’t-mind-insults-from-insensitive-jerks.
I guess you’ve been appointed the Grand Arbiter of What the Issue Is. I hadn’t heard.
That’s exactly what we’re telling you. The picture was intolerant, and you defenders of being rude to the disabled as long as they’re not here are intolerant. And you are also being laughed at behind closed doors. And it’s not your business whether or not I ignore you in a public forum. I’ll challenge intolerance wherever I see it. You can sit back and laugh at Special Olympians all you want from the safety of your keyboard. I don’t really care about that. But you can’t control my reaction. You all want to be able to make your cracks without anybody objecting. It’s not going to happen.
This is the biggest load of crap in your entire post. It’s similar to the “liberals are intolerant because they’re not tolerant of the intolerant!” I’m intolerant because I don’t sit back and listen to you insulting the defenseless? The only way to be a decent human being in this situation is to ignore you as you heckle a disabled kid? What a crock.
Nope. If you are ignorant and intolerant where I hear you – you will hear from me. Get used to it and stop complaining.
Make up your mind. “We don’t need to help anybody” and “those that do need some help” don’t really go together in the same sentence. Or the same mind, actually. People need help, but nobody needs to help anybody. I guess that explains conservatives pretty well, actually.
Also, it’s strange that you think that an environment where ridiculing disabled people is tolerated, but objecting to that ridicule is not, somehow is a supportive environment for the disabled.
More intelligent response from the guy who wants to mock disabled children in peace.
Except of course, those disabled Down’s Syndrome kids, who we should be able to mock because they can’t speak for themselves.
I hope you’re proud of defending your right to laugh at disabled kids without any response. That’s some legacy to be leaving here.
You still don’t get it do you hoagster? Nobody on this site was “mocking” the kid in the picture. Nobody on this site called him a retard. We were laughing at the CAPTION that said arguing on the internet is retarded. Which it IS. And which you still continue to do! Nobody bothered to answer your so called “questions” because they didn’t make sense because you’re still making it about the kid, when it was about the caption and the pointless issue of “arguing on the internet”. And even when Marcus attempted to answer your questions on a number of occasions, you continued to discredit them like you do to everyone who attempts to disagree with you.
Wilson Masters in comment 47 worded it perfectly “The fun is distinctly being pointed not at real retards but at euphemistic “retards” who try to “win” pointless internet discussions by turning them into arguments.” For some reason you can’t seem to grasp that, instead you’re accusing Marcus of displaying it as a cruel, mocking attack on the “mentally challenged” instead of the way he intended, a harmless joke. With the “joke” itself being about arguing on the internet.
It’s “your opinion” and “your view” to see it as “mocking and cruel”. But it’s mine and numerous others “opinion & view” to see it as it was intended.
So what makes “your opinion” any better than ours? This why so many people have asked you to “get off your high horse” and to stop with the superiority complex. Your opinion is no more or less important or valid than ours.
Guest House:
Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics. You might win, but you’re still just a retard.
Therefore, if you win a race in the Special Olympics, you’re still just a retard.
Try to understand the discussion a little better. The picture absolutely called Special Olympians “retards.” It was aimed at a different group, but that doesn’t change things.
If I said “arguing with Guest House is just like arguing with a moron,” then I’m calling you a moron.
Catch up.
Like I said, that’s your opinion. Which is no more valid than anyone elses. Perhaps you’re the one that’s a tad behind. You still can’t let it go after a day of arguing. But then thats your mo….to argue for arguments sake.
Gotta love hoagies subtle way of still calling people names. I understand the caption GH and I’m not even a scientist. Guess all the book smarts in the world can’t give someone common sense.
Make up your mind, CR67. If you think I called Guest House a name in my example, then the picture is insulting to the disabled, for the same reason. Is that your position now?
But in reality, I used that example with the preface “If I said…” Intelligent people recognize it for what it is. A counterfactual example.
And Guest House – it’s not my opinion. It’s simple logic. The picture says “arguers are retards, just like Special Olympians.” It’s pretty simple really. Nothing to do with opinion.
Maybe he’ll apologize and it won’t count.
This is just one issue we’ll all have to agree to disagree on and leave it at that.
Have a nice night everyone!
Oh I understand completely. That’s why I said it’s your “MO”. You always use “examples” to call people names, so you don’t have to claim accountability. Doesn’t bother me, just calling it how I see it.
But the examples represent real statements by those on your side. If mine are “hidden” name calling, then your side is REAL name-calling.
Can I call name-calling your MO?
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still mentally/physically disabled.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/pbrhelmet.jpg
I’m ROFLMAO!!! That was good Marcus!
Thanks for the laugh! Hopefully this will end the debate.
so THOSE are PBRs!!!!
That’s just good comedy there! Even our staunch friend the hoagster had to have at least cracked a smile at that one.
Nice one Marcus…much better. =) I’ve got nothing against making an example out of the “stupid by choice”. I fall in that category myself probably more often than I’m conscious of.
[I did replace "retarded" with "stupid" since I think it's more descriptive.]
LOL – retarded by choice…..I like that!
You know what I think is good comedy? Artiste’ complaining about somebody stealing his user name. That’s a riot! Evidently he doesn’t think it’s so funny to steal a user name when it’s his name that’s being stolen. When he stole the user name of a friend of mine and my friend called him on it he told my friend to just get over it. Then he kept using the name for a year. Different reaction when the shoe’s on the other foot, huh? Good thing he’s in tight with the moderators so he can get it fixed right away. Sheesh.
That IS funny! Especially since he wasn’t using it to post comments on topics like this, AND he didnt register it. PLUS I never posed “as him” like you did to me yesterday. “Your friend” came onto the site and one day a few months ago whining in the chatbox about me “steeling” his name “Guest 007″. He made such a stink over it I thought he was going to cry. Wasn’t a big deal to me so I said he could have it and I changed my name to “The Artiste”. If he felt it was his, he should have said something a year ago and registered it. By the way, I’ve been posting for a year and a half if not a little bit longer.
Plus I never “posed as him” to write a comment like you did yesterday. So there ya go. How ya like them apples poser?
Wow this conversation is like a chase on cops with blown tires. Noone knows why it started in the first place, it’s going to come to a grinding halt that ends badly, and everyone involved thinks they are right but are wrong. That’s right. Everyone.
Karma, your facts are wrong; as soon as Artiste was told that “007″ was already taken (news to a lot of us, who only knew “Artiste” as “007″) he or she immediately, and very politely, changed his/her username. . . hence the Artiste (a la Prince). . . .I was privy to some of the conversation in the chatbox relating to this change. It was all done very publicly and without any fuss.
Yesterday, someone deliberately pretended to be Artiste to write something. . . . Artiste didn’t use his “friends the moderators”, he or she simply posted a request that the remarks attributed to him/her be removed, as they weren’t his/her remarks. The request was made publicly (in the chatbox, I believe). . . not through any clandestine channels as you imply.
You must admit, there is a world of difference between using someone’s name intentionally for subtrefuge and innocently using a name (for a significant length of time!) that no one knew was being used by someone else.
At no time did Artiste act inappropriately.
We all know that words can hurt. They can hurt a lot, so that’s why we all use them.
When it’s not me that’s getting hurt, it’s easy for me to say the person who IS wounded is just being hyper-sensitive. It’s easy for me to say ‘Just get over it.” It’s easy to say “What’s the matter? It’s just a joke. Can’t you take a joke?”
I can think of a lot of words that would really hurt all my LDS friends. They have some words of their own that would hurt me. The Jews came up with the word ‘gentile’, and in turn, the Jews have lots of words that other folks use to describe them. Words that hurt.
If you are the one getting run through by the sharp pain of a hurtful word, do you ‘lighten up’? Do you duck your head and go away to nurse the pain, or do you get mad and want to hurt back?
Are you a ‘whiner and complainer’ if someone says something that hurts you? Or is that just another way of saying ‘get over it’?
The thing is… don’t start pulling out those guns casually. It happens too much these days, and stuff like Columbine results from them. We are all anonymous here, but all of us are very real people, and we all have a spot that a casually tossed work can hurt a lot.
True malice should only be used if one is ready to absorb just as much as is thrown out. There is no last word on the internet, and nothing on the net ever goes away.
Remember George Allen? The guy who called another guy Macaca? He forgot that stuff I just mentioned. He was once thought to be a natural to run for President. Now, he can’t get elected Town Dogcatcher.
You never know these days what’s going to come back on you like a bad cucumber. The net is part of life, and it never forgets or forgives snark.
Thanks Easterner! I appreciate your comment.
I was probably a little snarky in my reply to Karma, but for them to accuse me of stealing someones screenname a year ago was unfounded and unfair. Especially since it wasn’t registered. Granted I probably should have registered it, but then again, they should have too if they thought it was theirs. But I’m glad you were in the chatbox that day because as you know I told him I had no idea it was his and didn’t have a problem giving it up since he felt that strongly about it.. (It’s just a screenname after all.) It’s all his for the taking now and we’ll see if he goes and registers it to use or if they just wanted to post a complaint.
Thanks
I should have either expanded that paragraph where I mentioned the Jews or snipped it out. My point, and I failed to make it, is hurt is circular. It always comes back to get you back, and it always comes back stronger than when you sent it flying.
As far as thinking that getting hurt by someone’s remark is necessary to help make a person stronger, I say:
Show me the rulebook.
You make a good point boomer. But I also think it has to do with what era you grew up. I grew up in the “sticks and stones era” where names will never hurt you. And they never have. The younger generation is too soft IMO, that along with the political correct propaganda that was thrown at a whole generation, now names DO hurt and it’s really sad, again IMO. When our family moved here years ago, I noticed that a certain religous population was very sensitive about “snark” as you say, and get their feelings hurt extremely easily. Once again it comes down to a mater of opinion. What may be hurtful to one person, is funny to another. To which some posters would then say, “why say it at all and risk hurting someones feelsings”? To which I would reply, “sticks and stones may break your bones, but names should never hurt you”. It’s all a matter of opinion.
Just wanted to say that was a great comment by Boomer and a nice rebuttal by the artiste’. Both stated their case and did so with respect towards the other poster. THIS is an example of how a issue should be discussed.
NOT comments or “examples” like this:
“If I said “arguing with Guest House is just like arguing with a moron,” then I’m calling you a moron.”
Just my opinion.
Good job guys!
It’s funny you chose my comment as an example. Not your’s of #8 or Guest House’s of #9.
Boomer had a great point, and The Artiste’ missed it. It’s not only name-calling that hurts people. It’s the atmosphere that limits people’s opportunities. If you live in a society where blacks can be called ‘niggers’ and told to ‘just get over it’ if they complain, then you live in a racist society that does many more things to keep blacks oppressed.
If you live in a society where it’s OK to call a Special Olympian a “retard”, then you also live in a society that does not respect the disabled, or treat them with dignity.
Our society has recognized that. Unfortunately, the conservatives are fighting the necessary changes tooth and nail. (That’s what ‘conservative’ means – conserving old value systems.) Just like with women’s rights, and with civil rights, they will loose this battle. But we may just have to wait until all the old ones die off.
This thread can’t possibly be you alls first time seeing that jpeg image, right? It’s been floating around the internet for years. People have been using it to insult each other, in word play, or simply as a display of juvenile humor for eons.
Rather than enhance Mr. Open Mind’s post, it appears the jpeg detracted from his little lecture. Oh, well. People will be… people; with all their faults, and self perceived good qualities.
Here’s what a young gal in Pocatello said in her blog about this discussion. Please read- she comes by her thoughts from a very personal standpoint.
http://politicalgame.blogspot.com/2008/08/idaho-falls-today-home-of-hate-speech.html
I have a relative who is intellectually challenged, and another who is a short person. Some of you might think these terms are too politically correct, but both are honest without being offensive to them, or anyone. A good friend prefers to be called a Native American; if that’s what he likes, it’s no skin of my nose to make him happy by avoiding the more common term. It’s a respect thing always.
Marcus…
As to my very short relative, if she read the comment about ‘my pet midget’, I’m sure she would be most happy to share her thoughts about something you tossed out in a very offhand way.
There but for the Grace of God go you, and all of us. You’re still a young guy, Marcus, and you may have more children. I sincerely hope any future young’uns of yours aren’t born with a disability, and you never have a moment of regret for that little joke. I was as callous at your age as you are, and there are some things I said back in the day that still haunt me in my more honest moments.
You can’t ever take words back, and saying ‘I’m sorry’ never amounts to squat. Native Americans showed they were sorry for an insult by cutting a finger off as proof of their sorrow. Are you ready to do the same? That’s the real deal, not just an empty expression that’s overused.
Call it superstition, but I learned to take real care with what I said long ago. I’m pretty good at using words to cut someone to ribbons, but I don’t care to call the thunder down on myself any more.
Hi, Artiste…
Yup. A lot of it has to do with where and when you grew up. It depends on what your parents said, too, and the others who were close to you. My Grandfather was a very decent man, but his upbringing was very racist compared to mine… I’ve often pondered on what he would think of one of my sons’ black girlfriend, who is a very dear and sweet girl.
Personally, I have a hide as thick as a rhino… I’m in several professions where being thin-skinned will destroy a person’s self-confidence, and, Lord knows, I still have lots of that.
I learned long ago that there are many ways of proceeding other than being ready to fight or running away in despair.
Other’s opinions, if given a little careful thought, can be changed as long as there’s some empathy involved. You don’t have to share someone’s sensitivity to something to understand why they are sensitive. Respect always goes further than anything else, and very few things are black and white in this world. We all got something we’re touchy about.
Come on Hoagie,
Meet me at Fred Meyer at 11 p.m. I have a photo to show you.
What?
At a concert tonight – then out to dinner with the guest of honor.
Doubt I would have shown up anyway, without more information.
Wow, this one got way out of hand everyone… I thought the Wind Turbine forum was harsh… I guess I need to spend more time around here? Do they normally get out of hand like this?
P.S. There’s no way in #$%@ I’m commenting on any of it! It took me 2 hours just to read the whole thread! I’m going to bed now…
LOL!
That is directed at this whole series of comments by the way. It’s a damn joke.
And what makes it a joke? I’d say it’s the clique of people who were calling a disabled child a “retard” and were outraged that anyone would object. They drew this out for days, insisting that nobody should point it out. Or would you say that the problem was not the name-callers, but those who objected?
I highly second Boomer’s recommendation of this post. Tara provides more proof of my statement that the mother of the Special Olympian would hate that picture. That is in addition to the site that Sisyphus pointed to, the fact that boycotts are being arranged for “Tropic Thunder,” and everybody’s basic experience that “retard” is a word that should not be used. The evidence for your side that it isn’t insulting? Marcus’s gut feeling that the boy’s mom wouldn’t object.
You all look ignorant and obstinate. You know who you remind me of? In those pictures of young, black school kids walking to southern schools that had just been desegregated, there’s a bunch of white bigots screaming at them – and demanding the right to “maintain their lifestyle.” That’s the legacy you’re creating here, folks. Yet all indications are that Marcus and the rest of you cheerleaders will go on insisting that you did absolutely nothing wrong, and will “never apologize for anything.”
I had hoped that at least one of you would learn to be a more decent human being from this episode. I guess that was asking too much.
Damn. Bold tag should have been closed after “hate.” If a moderator could make that change, I’d appreciate it.
Thanks!
Not for a moment did I think my post would generate such discussion. I feel a strange mix of flattery and disappointment…
I don’t mean to triangulate or act like I’m above the fray here, but I just want to share a couple of observations about what appears to be two sides on this particular post — which morphed into a debate over use of the “R-Word”, which I think is a worthwhile debate.
I am a conservative in nearly every sense of the word. I vote Republican (often reluctantly), am pro life, pro gun, pro traditional family, and all about limiting government.
I also laughed at the caption and picture of the Down Syndrome athlete. And I’m not terribly proud that I did. But I did. Something about it triggered the humour reflex.
So I tried a little thought experiment. What if I saw somebody beating the crap out of a Down Syndrome child? My reaction would be rage, and would do anything to defend him or her. If somebody were calling a group of Down’s Syndrome children “a bunch of retards” I would be bold enough to correct them. Like Idahoagie, I feel the innate sense to protect the defenseless. I’m glad I have that sense, but it still doesn’t explain why I found the picture and the caption humorous.
The picture and caption follow the same pattern as the following joke:
“A politician is like a dirty diaper: they both need to be changed and for the same reasons.”
Hopefully we can all agree that that’s funny. Part of the reason we find it funny is that it’s creating an unexpected connection between two unrelated things.
Now, dissecting humor is really nerdy, so I won’t persist. But the high-intensity accusations of people being “sick human beings” if they laugh at a tasteless joke is a little over the top.
Having said that, I read Tara Rowe’s entry about her disabled brother and use of the “R-word”. While I still don’t believe that anyone who utters the word or laughs at the picture in question is a “sick human being”, she convinced me that those things aren’t really productive.
The last thing I want to do is pick a fight, and I won’t engage in a back-and-forth. But for what it’s worth — to get back to the original point of this post — calling people horrible and sick and heartless causes them to dig in and establish and defend their position intensely. Contrast that with Tara’s story about her brother and WHY the “R-word” is harmful, and you know what? I was moved. And she did it without hurling insults and accusations.
Hopefully we all will read her story without prejudice and then make a decision about our own behavior.
I can’t promise that I’ll never laugh at offensive or tasteless humor. Some things are funny, even though they shouldn’t be. I guess we’re all human that way.
But I will make a conscious effort to remove the “r-word” from my speech. (I use it, by the way, only to refer to goofballs and dorky-acting people, but never about mentally disabled people).
As a final thought, why are you here at this site? Is it:
To win arguments
To persuade people
To learn what’s going on in our community
To have drama in your life
To shame people in to believing a certain way
To get some intellectual/mental stimulation
Hopefully we’ll pick the more noble motivations and run with them.
Give me more! I can’t get enough!
Great comment OpenMind!! I believe most people are the same way, regarding your last paragraph. I don’t know anybody that would call a mentally challenged individual a retard. The way I’ve always used the word was the same exact way that you mentioned. I believe the context and the tone in which we use certain words makes all the difference in the world. It’s not the word itself that’s hurtful, but how you present it.
Open Mind…thanks for the poll idea
easterner, I’m sorry but you and Artiste” are the ones whose facts are wrong. He took the name Guest 007 from my friend a long time ago. As far as “no one else knowing he was using the name” that is not true. At the time when he was confronted with it he told my friend that it’s only a screen name and to get over it. He KNEW my friend was using the name. Then nothing was said for awhile. I think that Artiste’ thought it was forgotten. When it was brought up again Artiste’ made himself out to be the victim and made a big deal of having to give up his screen name. Artiste’ knows I’m telling the truth about this. As far as Artiste’ accusing me of being the one to post under his screen name, that’s a lie. Since he and his buddies took over this site they feel the need to make themselves look nicer than they really are. Look who’s the poser now. I really don’t care what easterner thinks because Artiste’, my friend, and I all know the truth, don’t we Artiste’? But of course he has his peeps here who will defend him whether they are right or wrong.
Hi, Open Mind…
Excellent post.
I particularly like your list of reasons as to why we participate here.
Good food for thought, and I laughed at your joke.
Nice comment Open Mind. I hope that people actually do take your advice and remove the word from their vocabulary entirely, regardless of “context.” As you point out, there is no good context.
Oh, but you do, CR67. Here’s a re-wording of the caption that means the same thing: “Even if you win and argument on the internet, you’re still a loser. Just like if you won at Special Olympics, you’d still be a retard.”
Everyone on this site who defended that picture (or mocked the people who pointed out how offensive it was) was calling a disabled kid a “retard.” You are not off the hook just because you didn’t say it directly to his face.
(And no, Guest House, that’s not my opinion. My reworded caption is exactly what the original caption means.)
Whatever you say karma.
I tried to be the nice guy here but that didn’t work so I’ve gone ahead and registered Guest007 as my own and solved the problem. Something “your friend” should have done to begin with. You snooze you loose.
Next time you want to fight “your friend”s battles, get all the facts straight first.
The Artiste’ formely known as Guest007 is no longer The Artiste’, but once again Guest007.
Have a great day!
I just can’t help but ask a question here…
What does the word “Retard” mean? Here’s the Dictionary.com definition…
——————————-
re·tard
–verb (used with object)
1. to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
–verb (used without object)
2. to be delayed.
–noun
3. a slowing down, diminution, or hindrance, as in a machine.
4. Slang: Disparaging.
a. a mentally retarded person.
b. a person who is stupid, obtuse, or ineffective in some way: a hopeless social retard.
5. Automotive, Machinery.
an adjustment made in the setting of the distributor of an internal-combustion engine so that the spark for ignition in each cylinder is generated later in the cycle.
Compare advance.
———————————
[Origin: 1480–90; < L retard?re to delay, protract, equiv. to re- re- + tard?re to loiter, be slow, deriv. of tardus slow; see tardy]
—Related forms
re·tard·ing·ly, adverb
—Synonyms 1. obstruct, check.
—Antonyms 1. accelerate.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
“retard.” Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 24 Aug. 2008. .
———————————–
Ok, now, in all that information contained above from Dictionary.com, it would appear someone used part 4-a from the five part list named above in the definition in a politically incorrect way? Some may even feel that the way it was used is illegal?
Regardless of how anybody “feels,” however, it would be completely silly to try and remove this word from our language. There is a wide range of uses for the word “retard.” (Please see above definition.) Read through the definition again a few times and I’m sure “you” could even find some good positive uses for the word “retard,” as can I!
By the way, I have used the word “Retard” in a politically incorrect way a few times myself. It’s never been related to an actual mentally impaired or retarded person do to some condition from disease or otherwise, as my personal morals will not allow for this, but I have used the word politically incorrectly before. I will probably even continue to use the word in a politically incorrect way amongst my good friends and family… We’re not “perfect” and I can think of a lot worse things to say.
- Just my 0.02!
Have a great day!
By the way…
I’m not going to “remove” or quit using the word “retard” from my vocabulary. I will, however, think much more about the word before I actually use it in a sentence after reading this set of posts.
Again, have a great day!
Yes, and “chink” has other meanings, too. You should recognize that this discussion is limited to uses of the word that are disparaging to the disabled. Please retard your use of the r-word in those cases.
I understand the underlying message. The picture is supposed to evoke laughter, because we can all either identify as someone who foolishly argues on the internet, or we know people who do and we shake our heads sadly as we watch others engage in senseless arguments with anonymous individuals. Because the idea is, even if we win the argument, we’re still stupid (presumably for engaging in it in the first place).
Despite Paul’s listing of all the possible definitions, retarded means stupid, when it’s used in casual conversation about a person.
Some of you know that I have “developmentally delayed” stepchildren. That’s the politically correct term for it these days. When I was growing up the term was “retarded”. The kids back then went to “Special Ed”. Now they go to “Resource Room”.
My stepchildren have been called the “Retarded _____s” by their peers all their lives. They hate the term “retard”. They understand it as derogatory and that when used, it means they are stupid. They don’t want to be known as stupid. They are kind children and are hurt terribly when they hear these words.
Well, I guess by comparison they are less intelligent than their peers. They are definitely slower than most, although they have some savant type skills (think RainMan).
As a grown woman have I used the term “retard”? Yes. As hmmm mentioned several times above, I have been politically incorrect myself and have been downright rude, lewd and crude and usually enjoyed every minute of it.
But if I’m called on it I don’t hide behind my definitions, nor do I go on the attack and try to make the other persons out to be overly sensitive or tell them to chill or relax. I don’t employ any of those “I’m embarrassed and mad at you for pointing out my shame” defense mechanisms. I take my lumps and try to be a little less crass or insensitive next time.
That picture hits home to me as a mother and a human being. I’m not asking you to stop liking rude humor, I’m asking that you understand, when you enjoy this kind of humor, you’re doing so at the expense of the compassion your parents taught you to have for others who are different through no fault of their own.
Personally I can’t believe we’re still discussing this issue. The whole post was basically hi-jacked and instead of talking about the topic OpenMind posted, we were railroaded into a discussion on political correctness. (which most of you already know how I feel about that issue so I won’t bother bringing it up again)
Since we all have our own opinion and view on the “picture” and we’re getting nowhere in discussing it, how about (after 140+ comments) we get back to discussing the actual topic posted by OpenMind? (particulary paragraph 3)
Just my opinion.
Idahogie: I wouldn’t dream of using the word “retard” in any other way! For anyone to say that I would or have used the word “retard” in any other way would be nothing but false accusations on their part. I just had to throw out my opinion… I read further back in the posts that people were saying we should stop using the word “retard” altogether and I simply don’t agree with removing words from a vocabulary without a better reason than this. It’s my belief, after researching this word, is that there are plenty of “good” uses for it. I feel we just have to try and think about things and try and avoid the “knee-jerk” responses to issues. I felt the picture was completely horrible too by the way.
Nemesis: I couldn’t agree with you more! People hadn’t better try and hide behind definitions. Kudos to you guys for calling them on their rude behavior.
It’s against my moral standards to use the word “retard” in relation to a person or persons who have mental health problems for any reason as well. (I stated this in my first post) On the contrary, by the way, I feel that most of the mentally challenged people that I’ve come into contact with in my life are “smarter” than most of the people I know… myself included. I won’t go into it here but write and article about it and I will quickly jump on it!
To All:
I simply wanted to make it clear that I felt we can’t just remove useful words from our vocabulary no matter how we “feel.” To say that we must all remove words from our vocabulary because someone else uses them wrong is wrong itself. We must, however, continue to fight those people that take it upon themselves to misuse anything… It boils down to right and wrong and the picture was WRONG. This was the main reason I posted here tonight…
CR67:
My apologies for giving my 0.02, I just had to. I will post no more forever with regard to this topic so long as it is in this forum…
Have a great day!
No need to apologize Paul. I just think that picture and it’s caption side tracked the whole post, and I was guilty for getting caught up in it as well. I just think it’s time to move on and perhaps discuss the actual post itself instead of one persons attempt at humor.
Thanks!
The whole issue could have been avoided, CR67, if a bunch of people had recognized their own insensitivity instead of going on the attack in a losing cause. In fact, those people illustrated the point of the post very nicely.
And referring to “politically correct” is your attempt at minimizing the whole thing. You all were cruel towards a disabled kid. There’s nothing ‘politically correct’ about pointing that out. You now have multiple personal testimonies from parents of disabled kids, and every one had told you that “retard” is insulting and demeaning.
And your claims of “political correctness” are just attempts to shift the blame from those who want to laugh at disabled kids to those who point out how cruel it is.
We can all move on from this. But the record is here – not a single one of the group of you apologized for your cruelty. And to the end, you blame the people who pointed out your failure.
You should think about that the next time you decry the lack of personal responsibility in our society.
“My group”? I don’t have a “group” here Idahogie. I take responsiblity for my actions and my actions only. If somebody wants to agree with anything I say, that’s their business, but please don’t lump me into any “group”. I stand alone in my thoughts and my actions. And no, I won’t apologize because I wasn’t making fun of the kid in the picture, that’s what you don’t seem to understand, but I’m not going to waste anymore time trying to explain it to you.
Lets just move on and talk about the actual post.
Thanks
You defended the picture, and you remain defensive. That puts you into the group of people here who did the same. Unless you are a bunch of sock puppets, you are a member of that group.
I’m a proud member of the group of people here who defended the Special Olympian … Sisyphus, Nemesis, Boomer, and others.
And if you don’t think saying that “winners at the Special Olympics are still just retards” is insulting, then I fear for your intellect. You’re the one who has a problem understanding things.
Drop the issue if you want – your legacy is here for all to see.
You got the last word in, are you happy? Can we please move on now?
I concur with what you’ve posted here Idahogie… The pic was not a good one to share.
I re-read the original topic and feel, to some extent, that what is going on here is somewhat on topic unless I’ve completely missed the boat? “Pot-Shots” and “one-upping” are very apparent in this forum… I’m not saying its right or wrong. If anything I would agree with what’s going on here with respect to discussing difficult items in general. What I disagree with is unwarranted personal attacks on one’s character. Good healthy conversation without personal attacks causes people to stop and think about what they are saying before they say it and that is a good thing.
I think people trying to “one-up” each other is a natural thing, especially when they are competitive by nature anyway. It’s not always a bad thing… When someone attacks ones personal character, however, it just shows they’ve lost the debate and their but-hurt about it. When someone loses they need to bow and exit. It’s an inherent risk one takes when they engage in conversations like this.
Have a great day!
That’s the hoagster for ya. Always has to get that last jab in, which is why this post is over 150 comments long talking about a picture instead of the post.
Have a great day everyone!
And Paul is right, hoag has been demonstrating his “one upmanship & personal pot-shots” throughout this post. Which I would say would make me fear for HIS intellect, but then I’d be lying.
By the way, I’m guilty of the occasional “pot-shot” also, so I would do well to refer to OpenMinds suggestions within his original post. It may be a difficult process for me, but I’ll try. lol
There is a simple solution to the ongoing thread that I see running through this forum. Change the joke line to – you will still be “mentally challenged”- instead of “retarded”. Then the joke is PC and everyone can sleep soundly knowing the world has been saved.
“That’s the hoagster for ya. Always has to get that last jab in …”
Seems to me that was YOUR intention with this post, Guest_house, so it’s just another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Caling all hypocrits is right on. It’s too bad that the CR67’s and Guest House’s of this site can’t just offer a simple apology. Their true character has come through loud and clear. And it’s not becoming.
Why should they apologize and who should they apologize too? You? Idahogie? For what?
The way I see it is their standing up for what they believe in or how they feel about the issue, just like you and Idahogie are so why should anyone have to apologize for that? If you have a different view on the issue that’s YOUR problem, not CR67 or GuestHouses. And You & Idahogie are nobody to judge anybody elses character on this site.
I’m sure that CR & GH hardly care what you think about them anyway. But like Openmind said in his original post, we’ve got our “drama addicts” here on site that would rather argue and try to make everyone else “think” and “act” like them. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s just not going to happen.
Hey Guest.007. At the risk of stating the obvious, they need to apologize for their lack of taste and their inhumanity. Along with Marcus, who posted the thing in the first place, and others who thought it was so doggone funny.
I have, how should I say it? Children who are BLACK. When/if someone, who is perhaps a bit challenged on the civility and humanity fronts, calls my children the n-word, then I expect myself and others people to be outraged because of the horrible history and negative implications of that particular word. Call me sensitive, or whatever!. If you need to label me and others as “drama addicts”, feel free. Some things, in a supposedly civilized sociaty, are unacceptable. And it’s the right thing to do to call folks out when they behave in an uncivilized, callous and ugly way.
If otherwise good people stand by while folks do stupid and selfish things, and don’t judge it as “wrong” and “bad” then humanity never evolves. Perhaps you and others of your ilk would be just as happy if us BLACK folk had remained in our place instead of deciding we weren’t willing to take it any longer? I’m just saying …
And guess what? We all judge people every day. Just like you did.
I thought we were moving past this whole picture thing to talk about the actual post? I guess not. Funny how it’s turned into a “racial” thing now. LOL
And now you want me to apologize? Well don’t hold your breath on that one.. And 007 is right, I really could care less what you think of me. Like the caption said…”arguing on the internet is STUPID”.
I won’t bother posting on this particular thread anymore and will let you guys fight amongst yourselves and continue beating this dead horse.
Have a great day!
Ok then, how about them “pot-shots” and “one-upping” people. Why do you guys feel that human nature feels the need to do this with regard to these forums? Its interesting to me to watch people come in with the obvious intentions of trying to be or “say” something better than the last guy, or gal, did just to make themselves, it would appear, feel better. Why do you think people honestly do this? I know people are emotional creatures but we’re also logical so let’s use some logic here for a minute…
To me, the true “character” of people would better shine through here if everyone would just revert back to the original topic and ignore everyones call to “derail” from the topic…
Ok, I started it, I’m getting back on topic… let’s talk about the original topic again…
How about it folks?
Start another topic if you want to talk about linguistics and racial matters in Idaho Falls…
linguistics? Not sure what you’re referring to here, but perhaps I’m missing something.
I apologize if y’all think I tried to hijack this thread with a racial analogy. It’s just that not too many here seem to get the whole point of “retard” being NOT OK. Ah, well. Those who get it do. Those who don’t probably never will.
CR I certainly do not expect an apology from you, nor will I hold my breath. What you think of me is none of my business and what I think of you is none of yours.
I sort of find it amusing — all the demands to get back “on topic”. I’ve never been on a site where that wasn’t one of the rules, and yet it rarely happens. This whole thread is a great illustration of what happens in “real life”. Conversations start on one topic and sort of organically morph to somehing else, that is perhaps related to the original topic, but not exactly “it”.
“Why do you guys feel that human nature feels the need to do this with regard to these forums? Its interesting to me to watch people come in with the obvious intentions of trying to be or “say” something better than the last guy, or gal, did just to make themselves, it would appear, feel better. Why do you think people honestly do this?”
Paul, to answer your question, in my opinion it is EGO (myself included). And last I checked most of us have one, though getting stuck there doesn’t make for honest conversation, openmindedness and positive outcomes.
Idahogie – They would rather waste their time trying to shut logical people up. That is their way of hiding shame. How they ever survive in the real world escapes me. Kindness goes a long ways and one day they may figure that out. .
Sorry, that should have been addressed to calling all hypocrites, Nemesis, Idahogie and all who posted their distaste for those comments from the Marcus’ CR’s and GH’s.
CR said:
“Like the caption said…” arguing on the internet is STUPID”
Here’s some logic for you:
Arguing on the Internet is STUPID
CR argues on the Internet
Therefore, CR is ?????
(I don’t personally think CR is STUPID as I have seen CR say some very intelligent and thoughtful things).
“I won’t bother posting on this particular thread anymore”
OK
No demands that you do from over here!
Nice sock puppet job calling all hoagies.
You and your alter egos just can’t let it go can you?
Too funny!
Nice try, Guest.007. I am not Idahoagie. But I am Idahoagie’s wife.
Idahogie is at work, being a good hubby and kindly providing for his famiy. I, on the other hand, am at home eating bon bons, watching soaps and annoying the heck out of some of you.
Oh, and I’m waiting for my kids to come home so I can hug them and kiss them and ask how their first day of school was.
And thanks for outing me to my husband. He didn’t know I was posting on here (sigh!). If I say or do something stupid, he shouldn’t get the blame. :0
So, Guest.007, I suppose this means you are a moderator? Oh, never mind. I see in #137 that you are. Perhaps you could moderate yourself a bit (# 156).
I’m not a moderator, I just noticed what you said about CR in comment 165 was the same thing the hoagster has said to him in a previous comment. You outed yourself!! LOL Now that’s good comedy right there!
I could use some bon bons after that lovely display of genius!
Sorry, Artiste. I never said anything like #165. But your excessive claims about finding non-existent humor here is kind of funny. What? No disabled kids to laugh at?
(Hi, honey!)
OK, Guest.007. I am delighted you’re so pleased with yourself. I really am Mrs. Idahoagie, though I doubt you’ll believe that since you are oh-so-sure of yourself. I didn’t know my dear, sweet hubby had posted something similar (I didn’t have a lot of time to follow these posts before the kids went back to school). I guess it’s just that logical minds are …. well,um … logical. It kinda tickles me we came up with the same thing.
So Artiste’… are you going to provide proof of your claim that I called CR67 stupid for arguing here?
Or is it just another question that you will ignore?
And don’t you feel stupid for claiming that my wife and I are the same person? If you had some integrity you would have given up this thread a long time ago. Yet you keep coming back to make more silly claims. Your conscience is screaming at you, isn’t it? You just have to keep up the attack in order to drown it out, don’t you?
re: #165 and Artiste’s memory of Idahoagie utilizing a similar “methodology”,
and idahogaies claim, that he “never said anything like #165″ in comment #172:
I just had to find this:
“Comment # 60 by idahogie on July 22, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
Vote: 0 0
Easterner,
Do you see the difference between these two sentences?
“People who like liver-flavored ice cream have a weird sense of taste.”
“Idahogie claims that everyone who likes ice cream has no taste at all.”
I said something like the former. “People who send specific kinds of emails about Obama are hiding their racism.” Bundy repeatedly misrepresented want I said: “Idahogie says anyone who supports McCain is a racist.” He refused to acknowledge his error, and got very belligerent about it – repeating it three of four times. I called him a liar, which is exactly what he is.
Now you’re verging on making the same mistake. Where did I ever say that someone wasn’t free to have their opinion about the Obamas? If you can point to it, I’ll buy you lunch.
I was nothing but polite to Bundy when I thought we disagreed completely on Obama. See post #21. He started lying about me in his response to that (see post #26). Were you there complaining about that lack of civility on Bundy’s part? Why not?”
Just FYI, . . .. you actually did say something similar. . .
Hey Guest.007 … Go ahead anytime with proof of me outing myself by quoting the same logic that you say my hubby used. Where is it????
And, hey, I’ll make you a deal. I’ll happily send you those bon bons when you confirm your own “lovely display of genius”. To quote you “LOL”.
(Darn: I’d actually hoped we both came up with the same thing. That would’ve been cool!)
How is that in any way similar to #165?
Here’s a refresher: “People who argue on the internet are stupid, CR argues on the internet, so CR is stupid.”
It’s not even similar in methodology. One’s a syllogism and the other is a comparison of statements and includes an analogy.
But that’s beside the point, anyway. Artiste’ said I made a comment that was so similar to #165 that he thought it was the same person. You’ve gone to another thread (where you were also defending the indefensible – that’s getting to be a habit with you, isn’t it?) and found something totally different.
By the way, no one has ever answered that quesion, either. Where did I ever make the statement that people weren’t free to have an opinion about Obama?
You, Artiste’, and Bundy all seem to avoid questions after you’ve made incredibly wrong statements.
here is another example of a similar method of , um, “reasoning” which sounds awfully familiar:
Comment # 96 by idahogie on August 20, 2008 @ 8:39 pm 5 6
Guest House:
Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics. You might win, but you’re still just a retard.
Therefore, if you win a race in the Special Olympics, you’re still just a retard.
Try to understand the discussion a little better. The picture absolutely called Special Olympians “retards.” It was aimed at a different group, but that doesn’t change things.
If I said “arguing with Guest House is just like arguing with a moron,” then I’m calling you a moron.
Catch up.
………………..:)
just for clarification: those words are idahoagies (“,If I said “arguing with Guest House is just like arguing with a moron,” then I’m calling you a moron.
Catch up”)
up to the ellipsis and smiley (I added those). . . .:)
Don’t worry Hoag, you’re not “outing” me by calling me Artiste, please refer back to comments 134 to 138 to see MY reason for the change.
I never said you called CR stupid, I was referring to the part where you said he’s made some intelligent/thoughtful comments. Funny how you would assume I meant stupid.
And don’t worry, I don’t “feel stupid”, and I sure as heck don’t think “hoagie” is your only handle on here.
The point is, Paul attempted to get this post back on track and you and the wife can’t seem to let it go. But that’s two peas in a pod for ya!
And Mrs Hoagie…thanks anyways for the bon bons….you go right ahead and keep em, you need em to watch your soaps. I was just being facetious.
OMG! Idahoagie made a similar logical statement to the one I made. Dang! What geniuses you boys are to catch us in our plot … our conspiracy!
Honey, I guess we’re foiled again. They have irrefutable proof! Guess we should both hang our heads in shame.
But wait, I have another evil plan. Perhaps we could just claim that it’s because we’re um … logical … or perhaps we could explain away this dastardly deed because we’ve been together nearly 20 years and sort of think alike? Nah! Don’t suppose that would work. Drats!
could it be that we’ve just been together a long time and had our 17 aniversay just yesterdayLIke I said before, logical minds tend to think alike
OMG that is hysterical calling all hypocrites (Idahogies wife) I knew you had to be great being married to him.
Too funny! Please post more often!
First, I didn’t write comment #165. So you couldn’t be refering “to the part where [I] said” anything.
Second, easterner obviously thought you were refering to the same part of #165. I’m waiting for you to correct him/her. Oh, that’s right – you two stick together, right or wrong.
Third, I bet I can find five comments – a couple on this thread alone – that have complimented CR67 in the same way. Did you jump up and accuse them of sock-puppetry? Complimenting someone is now indicative of sockpuppetry? Are you going to fall back on “they both use the same language, they must be sockpuppets?”
And finally, what makes you think I’m “outing” you? You play fast and loose with my name, I can do the same. A wee bit sensitive, aren’t you?
And easterner -
You still haven’t come up with a single example of my making a point similar to #165.
Paranoid much, Artiste’?
There’s a well-known conservative tendency for projection. Is that at play here?
I’ve never posted here under any other name. Except once, in the stop sign thread – I think I falied to log in once and my comment appeared as ‘Anonymous.’ I think I immediately claimed credit.
I tend not to make claims like Artiste’ without evidence. Apparenly he/she feels no such need.
What a clever boy you are Guest.007 ! And I was being tongue in cheek (that means facetious) when I said I was at home watching soaps and eating bon bons. It was a sterotype of what some folks think of women who are at home during the day. And be careful … your true colors are showing.
Thank you so very much hmm for the compliment … but then again I already knew I liked you! You’re just so darn reasonable. And I am married to a pretty terrific guy!
Regarding #180: ” … I was referring to the part where you said he’s [CR] made some intelligent/thoughtful comments.”
Idahogie didn’t say that. I did. His dasterdly evil-doer wife. One of those two peas in a pod. And it’s a very nice pod. And I really like the other pea.
I think this post needs to be shut down. it’s turned into pssing match and nothing good is coming from it.
Oh, I don’t know. I’m sort of having fun (is that evil?).
Guest -
It has turned ugly with Artiste’ and easterner throwing accusations that they can’t back up.
In a post about debate tactics, where they keep claiming that everybody should get back on topic, it’s really kind of funny. They also can’t even answer the main topic of the comments: why they should be able to laugh at disabled kids without anyone pointing out how ignorant they are.
Open Mind…are you out of your mind yet? All these comments doing exactly as you had stated you were unhappy about, in your post…
I jumped in fray by reading from the “recent comments” link, and never did read your post itself until just now.
What hoot! What a riot, that the very thing you were hoping not to see, happened here. It’s just a sad commentary on the need for drama, and our desire to engage…
That being said, I think I like what you’re proposing, but how would we implement the concept and police the thread? I’ve seen several instances where a comment was obviously deleted because the references to it later didn’t make sense…but there was no mention of the deletion by the site police. I suppose if we had a way to say “Moved to the Ultimate Fighting ring thread” or whatever we’re going to call our no-holds-barred thread, then it might work…
I’m supportive of your idea for change.
Is hoagie married to that “gem” we used to have arguing on the site all the time? LOL
This thread has turned into comedy central.
or the horror network.
To what “gem” are you referring GH?
I think that this thread proves that the feedom of speech over-rides civility, respect of others, refinement and all of the other uplifting things that society had more abundantly years back. I don’t think it truly matters what your intentions are, it is how they are recieved. If any of the people posting here would give one bit of concern of how someone else might feel, it is my guess that most of what has been posted here would be retracted. Sure, use the freedom of speech thing as an excuse to be absolutely politically incorrect and any other incorrect. As a civilized community, which I hope we are, there should be a certain code of conduct that is followed and I think that it might have dipped below that line here. The bottom line is being rude is nothing more than being rude. I don’t know if any of you have had the opportunity to work with or have any relationship to any disabled child, youth or adult. I guess it is rather obvious to me that some of you have not, or some of the things that have been posted here would not have been posted. I know that the ones that I have been around and worked with certainly have kinder hearts that what I am seeing here and would never treat another, even in jest, the way that they have been portrayed earlier on in this thread.
This thread started out on a very negative note and has become even more negative and ugly. I am absoloutely surprised that this thread has not been shut down. I know I won’t come back to it and I hope that others will wake up and see that this is going no where but down and bringing out the ugly side of everyone involved..
Sorry hypocrite….it wasn’t an attempt to insult you or the hoagster. (ask hoag…he’ll know what I’m talking about)
It was just lame attempt at humor. But then I realized thats how this whole post got railroaded and thrown off the tracks and tumbling down the hill while exploding into a huge fireball. Got nothing against u or the hub personally.
I won’t apologize for my laughing at marcus’s picture and the comment that went with it, I was laughing at the comment of arguing online, and not because the kid in the picture was “mentally challenged”. Whether you or anyone else believes that is beyond my control, just as others have twisted it into being something terrible or even racial. But I WOULD like to apologize to the site for getting caught up in the hoopla as this was the whole point of OpenMinds post, which by the way got lost after the picture was posted. I got caught up in the “one up’ism” on this post and for that I apologize.. I think the mods need to shut it down as it’s gotten completely out of hand and I haven’t seen any useful debate since about comment #2.
“As a civilized community, which I hope we are, there should be a certain code of conduct that is followed and I think that it might have dipped below that line here.”
I agree.
“I agree”?
If that’s not a hypocritical statement, I don’t know what is.
Great comment GuestHouse. I’m impressed.
Why is that hypocritical, Guest?
And GH is being disingenuous. He wouldn’t laugh at a picture of a flower that said, “People who argue on the internet are dumb.” He only laughed because it included the jab at Special Olympians and used the word “retard.”
That’s why he’s rude and insensitive. Further, he attacks people who point out that he’s being rude and insensitive. Don’t be fooled by his latest comment.
He laughs at disabled kids.
I don’t know, Idahogie, I might be willing to accept him at his word and his effort of making an apology…I’m not happy at some of the things he said earlier but I don’t see disingenuity in comment #196.
Guest_House, I hope you were sincere, I also hope you are willing to join with me in trying to be a little less negative on our comments, plus maybe staying on track once in awhile! (I’m guilty of that, too.)
I’m sure that Open Mind would be happier, too
Yes, I was sincere.
And this is exactly what I mean, and why I often get off track, when posters like Idahogie can accept anything you say. It’s his way and his opinion or no way.
It’s like what Mrs. Obama just finished saying in her speech at the Democratic National Convention, ” treat people with respect & dignity even if you don’t know them & even if you don’t agree with them”.
I’m willing to join Nemesis in being a little less negative and trying to stay more on track. But I’m but one poster, its going to take all of us, at least those of us that tend to get sidetracked, to work together. I’m willing, are you Idahogie? ( is the Mrs?)
We’re gonna hold ya to that GH.
I agree, we all should just try to agree and treat each other with respect.
I think it took a big man to do what GH just did! I try not to get drawn into debates like this (if you can call it that) but I did as well and I’m with Nemesis and GH, I’ll make an effort to stay on track as well.
WTG GH!
Have a good night folks!
I am very happy to treat you and others with dignity and respect, GH. That doesn’t mean I won’t call you out when I think you are being inhumane and/or illogical.
And I would love for someone to point out where I have been rude and/or personally insulted them. If I have, I’ll suck it up and admit it and EVEN apologize!!! Imagine that. I admit I’ve used satire here in response to some pretty ugly and unsubstantiated comments towards me & my husband.
Kinda funny that I actually wrote down the same quote from Michelle Obama as you pointed out GH: ” … treat people with dignity & respect even if you don’t know them ,and even if you don’t agree with them.” Yup, that works for me, too! See, GH, we’re more alike than we are different. I hope you don’t find that too horrifying!
Nemesis – GH probably was sincere when apologizing about a very small “slight” – he may have accused my wife of being Crystal is my guess what he meant by “Gem”. So he was trying to insult two people at one swipe, however clumsily and without basis. One of them was my wife. Do I appreciate that he apologized? I guess I do, in the way you might appreciate an apology after someone spits on you with malice.
I do care that he claims not to be laughing at a disabled child, when clearly he was. There is no way possible that the picture can be seen as “funny” without the picture and the word “retard.” He actually claims that he was laughing at some other funny part of the picture.
And it’s not a matter of opinion. The picture says this: “If you win an argument on the internet, you’re still an idiot – just like if you win a race in the Special Olympics, you’re still a retard.” People were laughing at that thought. And when their cruelty was pointed out, what did they do? Did they acknowledge that it was cruel? No – they attacked those who pointed it out. Now we’re over 200 comments in, and not a single one of them has recognized their cruelty. They continue to make assanine statements like “It’s his way and his opinion or no way.”
How about we start with the Special Olympian? I didn’t see Marcus, GH, CR67, easterner, or several others treating him well. Do any of you have the dignity to start there?
So it’s one thing to promise to try and be nice. It’s another when they are making up stories while being nice. I’d rather they were rude and honest, actually. A couple of people were up in the chat box just now laughing about the “homo”-cide of a gay person in a movie. This is the kind of people they are. I’m not going to paper that kind of behavior over by pretending to be polite.
Bigots are bigots. And people who laugh at disabled kids – well, I don’t have much interest in being nice to them. If they express cruelty then insult people who point it out, I will be vocal and rude when I respond. That’s exactly what they deserve in that situation. Bigots should be shamed and ridiculed, and so should those who mock disabled kids.
If they don’t like it, they have two choices. They can try to be better human beings (not just pretending through politeness), or they can put up with it.
This is still going? Nobody is going to win on this one, I suggest that all sides surrender.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/stopit.jpg
I was driving north on Hitt Road the other day, where it necks down to one lane by John Adams. A guy in a large jacked-up pickup came screaming up the right lane, passing a bunch of us, then cut in a few feet ahead of me. I honked at him to show that his behavior was unsafe and unwelcome in our community. He went ballistic, flipping me off and glaring at me in his mirrors. He continued his anger display all the way up to 1st St. (I don’t do road rage – I wasn’t taligating him – but I was waving and laughing at him).
Well, those of you who laughed at the picture and then got mad at people who said that was rude are just like that pickup driver. We could all decide to be nice and respectful to each other, but then your attrocious behavior would continue unabated.
For me, I will be polite and respectful as long as people are decent. However, I promise to blow my horn at anyone who does things like Bundy did in the chat last night – his mocking of gays shows him to be a bigot. Such behavior is not welcome in a civil society, and I will call that out when I see it. Also, I will laugh and wave if people flip out.
And Marcus – one side of this debate has already won. The other side has yet to recognize it – and may not ever do so.
Open Mind has probably long ago put his/her head on the desk in despair concerning this thread.
You “don’t do road rage” yet you honked at him and was waving and smiling at him the whole time he was in front of you. To me that’s considered road rage. You were antagonizing him so you’re no better than the guy in front of you who flipped you off. Road rage isn’t just about being angry and flipping people off. When you antagonize other people while you’re behind the wheel of a 2 ton vehicle, that’s concsidered road rage as well.
And you do the same thing on this site. Instead of ignorning the guy that cut you off, or in this case has a different opinion, you’d rather antagonize them and be condesending towards them until people just get tired of going around in circles with you. Then you claim “victory” like it’s some sort of sick competition.
You state “one side of this debate has already won” but what you don’t seem to understand is, when it comes to a persons opinion, it’s not about “winning or losing”.
Have a good day.
I applaud guest house for being the bigger person here. I’ve got a lot more respect for GH and his willingness to work at keeping to the issues and not getting sidetracked.
Weirdo – That was you in the pickup, wasn’t it?
Seriously, though – we have a case of A is not equal to B.
It’s kind of silly to try and make those two actions equivalent. Let’s apply that inequality to this thread:
Or this:
Which side of the inequality are you placing yourself on, Weirdo? Do you really sympathize with the As?
Others are content to have an agreement that the As continue what they’re doing, and the rest of us should be polite and not “act agressive” towards the As – because we might antagonize them. Sorry, Weirdo – they’re already spoiling our community. Acting nice isn’t going to change that.
I say be polite until someone crosses the line, then point it out. If they attack you for being “hypersensitive,” then mock them. Maybe they’ll learn to be better human beings – or maybe they’ll just stop being so public with their rudeness. Or maybe they’ll just decide to keep acting like an A.
I’m getting slammed here for my aggressive approach to people who want to laugh at the disabled. Look at any of my comments on any thread. The As are modding them down by reflex, even totally innocuous comments. I’m getting repeatedly insulted out of the blue. That’s their only response to me – anger. It doesn’t bother me at all.
I’ll stand on my reputation – I don’t appreciate people who mock disabled kids (or gays), and I’ll defend them strongly. The As are creating their reputation here too, and it’s not very impressive.
It’s your decision: are you an A or a B?
Over in the Opposing Thumbs discussion Boomer just did a really great post. If you haven’t already, I invite y’all to go take a look. I posted a partial response there, and decided to put my other thoughts here. So at the risk of more flames, here goes.
I really like this statement made by Boomer:
“The internet is a place where written words rule. Arguments on the net are settled by the forces of reason, logic, and the ability to write them concisely. The ability to read carefully is as important as the ability to write.”
As I share my thoughts on this, I’ll do my best to tread carefully and treat everyone with dignity and respect. It’s been my observation — and I’ve been reading IFT long before I decided to post — that the second part of his statement ” … the ability to read carefully is as important as the ability to write,” is all too often ignored. I would add that there’s a whole lot of value in evaluating the message rather than reacting to the messenger. In this discussion (yes, I know you’re all sick of it and so am I) there are lots of examples of a knee-jerk reaction toward killing the messenger whose message was simply “hey, you might want to think about the cruelty of this image and evaluate whether that’s the person you’d like to be — a person who finds it funny.”
And all over IFT there are many examples where logic, reason and good writing are ignored and discounted because folks became offended, dug in their heels, refused to evaluate the efficacy of their arguments and decided to attack the messenger.
Disclaimer: Before someone feels the need to point it out I’ll say “Yes, the messenger in many cases is my husband.”
I don’t need to come to my husband’s defense; he’s perfectly capable of handling that himself. And thank goodness he has a strong heart and very thick skin.
My point is that if the majority of folks on IFT are sincere in their desire to have a respectful, interesting, and intellectually stimulating and “on topic” place to come, it can happen. And it can only be considered a GOOD thing when people who see/ believe and think differently come around to participate and hang out. But THAT will only happen if the “group think” mentality (we’ll be decent to you as long as you don’t challenge or disagree or point out flaws in our logic and/or questionable character tendencies) is tempered.
So that’s my .02 cents for today and I really do hope it does not start yet another flame war. That’s certainly not my intention.
Hi “calling”;
Can I ask you, do you think that maybe Idahogie at times can be part of the “attack” problem you raise? He has attacked and engaged in name-calling on this and other posts. He has acknowledged intentionally “baiting” people on another post and has insinuated, often, that people who don’t agree with his political views have low i.q.s and/or are conservatives who are the equivalent of being “sick human beings”.
This is not an attack; I have not posited a viewpoint one way or the other about the “picture” in this post, although I have supported fellow posters’ rights to express their own opinions.
Your husband is obviously very upset right now and continuing to argue this issue in the hope of having a “winner” declared. See post 208.
I am simply trying to head off any more “flame ups” on this post and possibly resolve the issue to the extent that it can be resolved: agreeing to disagree.
Thanks! Have a good day, all.
Hi easterner,
Perhaps he is part of the attack problem (I know I am), as are many others.
Hey, I’ve lived with the man for nearly 20 years. He’s a great guy and a formidable opponent in an argument/discussion. He know’s his facts (on most things) and backs up what he says. I’ve nearly always found him to be fair (if perhaps a bit harsh on occasion
), even when *I* don’t agree with him — and sometimes I don’t and I’m not afraid to tell him so. He doesn’t take it personally.
On occasion folks are put off because of his intellect and directness in expressing his views. He doesn’t tend to sugar coat things, nor does he have much interest in false politeness just to be liked.
You said: ” [he has] … insinuated, often, that people who don’t agree with his political views have low i.q.s and/or are conservatives who are the equivalent of being “sick human beings”.
Hmmm, well I’d have to see where he actually did that in the context you describe. He may have made comments about low i.q.s when someone obviously is being silly and defending a position that’s indefensible. Or he may have stated that someone is a “sick human being” — like the folks who were gay-bashing on live chat last night (I happen to agree they are sick for thinking it’s so cool that a gay guy was murdered on TV and it was called HOMO-cide).
Actually, my husband does not often get upset in any significant way that is detrimental to his emotional health or our life as a family. He has a very thick skin and others’ unfair criticism doesn’t usually stick. That said, when he screws up, he feels bad and apologizes.
For those of you who don’t know him and are judging him harshly, I think you’d be surprised. He’s a wonderful Father & Husband, defender of the underdog, and humanitarian. Oftentimes people are completely different than our preconceived notions of them.
OK, I’m quite sure I’ve embarrassed him enough, so I’ll stop now.
Disclaimer: I am Idahoagie’s wife and he DID NOT approve this message!
Hi calling,
I appreciate your response; I do think the “attacks” have been two-sided and it is time we all stopped beating this dead horse. Although I may not agree with you on everything you wrote, I do appreciate that you took the time to respond to me in a calm and civil manner.
Thanks again.
You’re welcome, easterner. And I appreciate the same from you.
Hey! Thumbs up to both of you for being civil and decent and embodying what this site should be about…
I’m thinking us wild wimmins could show those men a thing or two about civility…
S I G H
So we’re still discussing THAT word, huh? o, k.
By now you’ve all heard of and about the film “Tropic Blunder,” or excuse me. I guess it’s called “Tropic Thunder.” Although it remains at the top against other films being shown at the same time, many people have spoken against the film, it’s film maker, producers and stars. Why? Because it uses the word “retard” in it’s most derogative sense.
Young persons affected with downs syndrome and others who were developmentally delayed spoke out against the film, saying they were tired of being called “retards,” and tired of having their feelings hurt.
I was only surprised by the controversy. I’m surprised by the demands of adults, here, that other adults be just like them. What’s intelligent about that?
Adults have pretty much made up their whole minds about their beliefs, their conduct, and their general attitude. You want to influence people, and hopefully stop the future use of the word “retard” as it is used to describe human beings? Talk to your children. Talk to the schools that educate your children. Talk to the parents of your children’s friends. Are those parents and schools also instructing the children to be respectful, kind and helpful to those who are developmentally delayed? Do something useful.
Oh, and if there ever was an appropriate way to apply the word “retard” to a human being, it would reference Brittney Spears. On her blog spot, on August 14th of this year, she states:
“Know what? Starting now I’m gonna try to get out and see more movies, you guys. I’m funny like that sometimes; I’ll just decide to start doin’ something even though I don’t really know why I’m doin’ it. Last month it was shopping for goldfish and eating tons of baby food; this month it’s movies. It’s like I’m Siskel and Ebert or something, LOL!
I was thinkin’ I could maybe see Tropic Thunder, but now I’m hearing that this movie makes fun of retards, y’all. So I guess the movie people are all like “We’re allowed to joke about tards ‘cause this is like a satire or whatever.” But I don’t think satire is funny if it makes fun of stuff.
And anyway, the thing about retarded people is that you really don’t need to make fun of them; they’re already hilarious. Everyone knows that God put retarded people on this Earth to make us smile, whether they’re wearing those weird shoes or trying to eat balloons, can’t we just let them be funny in peace?”
Now that ^^^ is just retarded.
http://www.newsgroper.com/britney-spears/2008/08/14/people-who-make-fun-tards-are-real-retards
We can all be friends right? Our civility is not determined by how politically correct or twisted and sick our sense of humor is, is it?
Guaranteed, if you put us all in a room with ample entertainment and good cheer, we’d all be having a grand old time…mainly because people don’t get all retarded over a silly joke in real life.
I think we need to schedule a gathering. I’ve got a hell of a Halloween party coming up this year and you’re all invited. Hit me up for address info. BYOB, some beer and liquor will be provided. If you’re a smoker when you drink, I’ll have load your owns available for 10 cents a pop.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/yeah.jpg
Seriously, hit me up. This community needs to come together.
Hey Hoagie,
I did not make fun of gays in the chat box last night…or mock them. Your wife made some comment about Guest 3340 and I thinking that Matthew Shepherd getting killed was probably funny to us. That comment was out in left field. We were talking about Saving Grace and the Closer. IMO, you two are like peas in a pod….always baiting and ripping people new ones for the sake of arguing. His unprovoked and unwarranted slam should be taken off the board and this thread should be closed so we can start up a new one called: Agree with Hoagie or else…….
(Seriously Mr Eagle, Hoagie has called me a dork, stupid, a liar, and argues for the mere effect of wearing down his opponents emotionally. He should be counseled to cease violating the rules here….like Easterner, I too know where the trolls reside)
Bundy,
You said: ” … like Easterner, I too know where the trolls reside …”
You have crossed a line here. I take your threats very serously, and law enforcement has been contacted.
Sincerely,
Mrs.
Dear calling all hypocrits,
You seriously contacted “law enforcement” because someone didn’t agree with you on an internet bulletin board?
Hells bells and milk shakes from mars.
So, cahs, how’d the law respond to your complaints? Did they keep a straight face and were they polite? I imagine they were nice, our peace officers are the best, and better than all the rest.
But if you really called them with said complaints, I’d bet they had one heck of a time NOT cracking a grin or two.
Yer a hoot, cahs, a real hoot!
And I do mean that in the best, and most sincere sense of the word.
“We can all be friends right? Our civility is not determined by how politically correct or twisted and sick our sense of humor is, is it?,b>”
You are correct, Marcus, our civility is determined by the country we are born and raised in. Fortunately, we all share in common the heritage of the most civilized country in the world, the U. S. of A.!
Am I right, or am I right?
Therefore calling Brittney Spears a “retard” is my right, my guaranteed, given me by the constituion, my freedom of speech right!
Holy heck! And July 4th is all the way over, for this year.
So, Marcus, will the Halloween party be a costume party and will there be a band? How about a cover charge? Will you provide… escourts for those of us who are too… shy to provide our own?
ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, MARCUS!
It will most definitely be a costume party, the only cover charge is your own overhead for alcohol, and as far as I know, escourts will not be provided. I’ll have to ask my wife on that one.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/ixmio/cookieshalloween.jpg
I just have to say: WendyJo your “hells bells and milkshake from mars” bit was hilarious!! Thanks for the laugh!
As for Marcus….thanks for the invite. Thats mighty nice of you to open up your home to a bunch of strangers in an effort to quell the insanity! Although it’s still a couple months away, count me in. If your party is anything like your crazy pictures, it should be an interesting event to say the least.
That Britney Spears info was crazy! But then again, she’s always been a few fries short of a happy meal.
Have a great day everybody!
“Therefore calling Brittney Spears a “retard” is my right, my guaranteed, given me by the constituion,[sic] my freedom of speech right!”—yeesh. You bet you can say it and we’re equally free to judge you on it. But the first amendment does not insulate you from being an insensitive uncaring twit. You do seem to be “right”, just not correct and certainly not very civilized.
Mr. and Mrs. Hogie. I think a whole lot of introspection has occurred as a result of this post. Its all you can hope for. Time to let it go. Besides this comment section is taking forever to load.
This has gone on for some time. I am closing this thread for a while. Lets all take a deep breath.
We want this site to stay a good place for regulars and all the new visitors coming by to be welcomed. 1) we’re off topic 2) emotions are running too high, and 3) it is not benefiting anyone.
If the parties interested would like to continue their debate, I am willing to help them set up anonymous email accounts and they can email each other back and forth.
By the way, Bluenote did not clear the chatbox, I did. As someone pointed out today in the chatbox – “it is a NEW day”. Please let’s try to leave this behind… and lets stay on discussing the topics rather than eachother.
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