I was asked to write something about alternative medicine by another site member.
Per Wikipedia, the term alternative medicine refers to any healing practice that does not fall within the realm of conventional medicine. Practitioners such as naturopaths and chiropractors and osteopaths use methods that traditional medicine practitioners tend to frown on, such as iridology, biofeedback, hypnosis, reflexology, homeopathy, acupuncture, biomagnetics, herbalism, and many hundreds of other therapies, some of them very arcane.
Traditionalists call these methods ‘bogus’ or ‘pseudo’ science while the alternative medical society calls them ‘natural’ and ‘holistic’.
I have a debilitating chronic medical condition and conventional medicine has tried and failed to be of any use to me. I saw a local naturopath at the request of a friend. What the heck, what could it hurt, right?
The naturopath proceded to use a very controversial method to “diagnose” the etiology of my readily apparent but strange condition. I was prescribed 90 days of pills that the naturopath happened to sell…dessicated bovine anterior pituitary pills (dried cow brains) to help my adrenal glands, as “clearly they were out of whack and were the reason that my situation existed”.
I took them faithfully but my condition remained the same and did not get better…so that was a waste of my time and money all around, with the added issue that now I have problems when I try to give blood due to mad cow disease worries.
On the other hand, I have a friend who swears by the regular ”high colonics” that he gets from a naturopath…where lots and lots of water is pumped into his nether region and then his colon is ‘flushed out’. He says it removes toxins and makes him feel much better, he gets this done about once per year.
So. Do you use alternative healing methods? Do you know others who do? Are those who practice alternative medicine bucking the powerful medical lobby in our country to provide natural healing to the people, or are they merely selling the placebo of hope to those for whom traditional medicine has not been successful?
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Nemesis, great article! I have heard of naturopath’s who were great and others who were total quacks. I do believe in the power of nature. I am not sure about herbal remedies although I know some countries use these regularly and they apparently have quite a healing effect. In some of the poorer countries, these seem to be the only cure and the people believe them to be quite effective. Whether this is due to the power of positive thinking or whether it actually works is a question I can’t answer.
I believe that vitamins and other minerals and proteins are very effective and have seen proof of this. I believe that flushing your system of toxins is very powerful. The problem with our society (in my opinion) is that we tend to flush believing this will help, only to load right back up on toxins.
I know of a gal with some dreaded disease (I don’t recall which) who gave up on all the current “cures” of modern medicine and began using natural remedies including herbal remedies, vitamins, etc. and is doing remarkably better. She no longer uses prescription medication with one exception. She gets checked regularly and so far, all is well.
The vast majority of today’s medical practice know a great deal about medicine but very little about vitamins. In summary, I sure don’t think it would hurt to try.
Alternative medicine is such a mixed bag. There are parts that are totally harmless – homeopathy comes to mind. Except for spending a bunch of money to drink some water, it won’t do any harm. It won’t help either, except for any placebo effect.
Chiropractic could actually do people some good – although it would probably be cheaper just to get a massage. However, the “theory” behind it is pure crackpottery.
I’m sure there are forms of alternative medicine that might actually do some direct physical harm, but those are probably rare.
The greatest harm that alternative medical treatments do is by dissuading people from seeking the proven medical help that they might need. So far, I think the fringe religions are worse – the horror stories of parents watching their children die when simple medical treatment is available, just waiting for their deity to step in. But I’m sure that you could find plenty of examples of people who died while relying on alternative treatments, too.
As for me and my family, we’ll rely on treatments and practices that can be shown to work. Which pretty much leaves out the whole alternative medicine movement.
Idahogie, that may be the case, it’s hard to say. I certainly don’t think that modern medicine should be eliminated altogether. It’s also difficult to say whether someone may have been misdiagnosed to begin with and therefore, other remedies seemingly “cure”. The term “medical practice” is exactly that, a practice. That said, I think a second opinion is often warranted.
The only alternative medicine, if you can call it this, that has worked for me, is aroma therapy. It really works. It calms me and helps me settle stress, very well.
I’m a great believer in the fact that modern science probably doesn’t know it all, and there are many things that happen which go unexplained.
But I’m also a firm believer in trying science first, and then, if I can’t get anywhere, trying the alternative.
It’s just that sometimes, neither one can help (such as with my condition).
I wish there were a placebo for my legs!
here is a site that regularly discusses “woo” (the scienceblogger’s name for alternative medicine) from a science-based viewpoint:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/theres_no_woo_like_harvard_woo.php
interesting discussions.
I know a lot of people would put chiropractors in this category, but I’ve had very good experiences with chiropractic care.
I worked at a job that had me on my feet all day every day, and my feet became sore with shooting pains and I was afraid I would end up in surgery, so I kept putting off going to the doctor. A friend suggested her chiropractor. I had never been to one, but figured it couldn’t hurt, and after a couple of visits the pain was gone. The pain comes back every few years, and one visit takes care of it.
I don’t know if chiropractic takes care of all the things they claim it does, but I have definitely benefitted from it.
I am probably the only one here who prefers “alternate” medicine over “traditional” (weird when you think about it since what we call traditional today is actually the ALTERNATIVE to what we used hundreds of years ago).
I’m not anti-traditional medicine – if I break a leg or have some other emergency trauma, I will seek out a hospital. If I had cancer I’d use all the methods I could that made to me. Once a year when I get my thyroid meds. prescribed I go to a regular dr.. When I get a kidney infection I immediately go to my dr. for antibiotics (I have one kidney and don’t get to mess around with slower healing techniques), but I don’t care to go to a traditional dr. for much of anything else.
Here’s why.
I have an autoimmune disease of which sysptoms included, at its beginning, EXTREME fatigue (impossible to describe – when one says “fatigue” most people think “really tired”, but that doesn’t even begin to explain it), horrendous depression, incredibly painful joints, and – the icing on the “hard to pin down” symptoms – ninety pounds of weight gain within less than a year. I went from 103 to 191 – SKINNY to quite overweight.
I challenge anybody here to take that list of symptoms to basically any traditional dr. in IF and get an answer other than “you’re choosing to become lazy and you’re probably eating too much and that’s why you’re depressed, overweight, tired, and your joints hurt”. This will be especially true if you happen to be female and the blood test to check your thyroid comes back as “normal”.
“Normal” is based upon a healthy male between the ages of 19 – 35. That has never been me. But dr. after dr. after dr. after dr. after dr. after dr. told me the same thing – all at my own expense because I hadn’t health insurance.
It really really truly sucks to KNOW something is wrong with you but to have “experts” continually tell you, “no, you’re wrong, it’s all in your head”.
I won’t go through the whole story about how I managed to heal MYSELF, but I will say it took me firing about a dozen drs., going to my hometown of Los Angeles, getting a specialist (who my step-mom’s dad – a DR. – went to himself for the same disease), and ME telling the specialist what tests and meds. I wanted. He agreed. By the way, although he is a traditional dr., he also had huge amounts of training in alternative healing back in India.
Trying to get a traditional dr. to listen to a female who is over forty and has put on a lot of weight she can’t take off is like trying to extract an intelligent, well-rounded thought from our current president. I learned to give traditional drs. in Idaho Falls the same kind of regard they gave me – not much.
I don’t use a lot of alternative medicines (I’m on a couple of prescribed hormones for my thyroid – hormones I told the dr. I wanted, not hormones HE decided I needed) and I’m doing fine. I lost some of the weight, not all, but I eat extremely well, I exercise for about two hours every day (to keep my joints and bones in good shape), I feel healthy, energetic, and I’m strong – so – I’m good with my current weight of right around 160. No traditional dr. did this for me – I did. I simply did aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall my own research and then found a dr. who was smart enough to listen to me, instead of one who offered drugs for depression, arthritis, weight loss – all of which have nasty and sometimes dangerous side effects. I’m on nothing now other than my hormone replacement AND I am also on a higher level of B vitamins (mostly B6) because an alternative healer suggested that I might have adrenal fatigue as a result of the Hashimoto’s and sure enough he was right – plus I only have one adrenal gland so the one I have works overtime.
Do I think all alternative healers are on the level? No, buyer beware. But I feel EXACTLY the same way about traditional drs. For some freaking reason we think that because they have a license to “practice” that somehow they have the final say in what is wrong with us and how we should fix it. That’s a load of you-know-what. Drs. are no more able to “fix” what ails me than I am – we must work in concert, but too many people rely heavily on their drs. and don’t do their own work, which maybe is why so many drs. nowdays assume they are somehow holier-than-thou and that THEY have all the answers and that the patient should just shut-up and take what the dr. orders.
There is something about alternative medicine, if you can find a great healer whose style works for you. Here’s the something – that healer LISTENS to you and bounces back ideas that YOU may be able to resonate with and work with. If you can take a gem of information or enlightenment and go to a traditional dr. with it, and have that dr. LISTEN to you, rather than just pooh-poohing the alternative practioner as “snake oil selling”, then all three of you – yourself, the alternative healer, and the traditional dr. might be able to work together to help you heal yourself.
One local head trauma dr. here in town seriously, really threatened to kick me out of his office because he kept insistingthat my partner needed to take drug X to help heal his concussion, EVEN THOUGH my partner strictly said “I would like to try non-drug thearapies first”. This dr. refused to listen and when my partner asked about using accupuncture (which has worked SUPREMELY well for him on other issues) this dr. had the freaking nerve to claim “I’m not going to suggest you go use snake oil treatment”. That’s when I got into it with the dr. and he threated to leave, he told my partner “tell her to keep her opinions to herself or I won’t stay in this room any longer”, to which my partner (brilliantly) replied “you tell her, I’m happy with what he’s saying – I agree with it”. The dr. didn’t leave the room, but he DID tell us that the concussion’s fall-out (memory loss, unable to find the right word) would not be helped be acu. We made an appointment the next day and within a day after that he was on his way to feeling much better. The point is – too many drs. slam the suggestion of alternative health because, really, I think they are afraid of how well some of it works.
Use your brain, people. Seek out several sources, do your internet research, call alternative practioners and ask them to talk with you (if they aren’t willing to do that then you have a good idea of their faith in their own system). But be concerned if your traditional dr. has nothing but negative things to say about alternative techniques, some of which work well. Any traditional dr. who unilaterally slams other health systems is too close-minded and fearful for my taste. Not all alternative healers are on the money, but not all traditiional drs. are either.
I know this is a long message but health and healing is a huge passion of mine and I happen to have had the kinds of experiences that have led me to understanding the health care fields more than I thought I would have had to.
Thanks for reading through the novel!
Thanks for sharing! Years ago I had the good fortune to work for several docs who (even though they were on the verge of retirement age) embraced pieces and parts of alternative healing methods as natural adjuncts to their own medical training.
Today I see a nurse practitioner who listens to me. He is also pretty open minded (if it works, who cares if it’s ‘alternative’).
Loud-proud-hippie; I can’t say I’ve used the alternative healers. I can say that I think doctors should understand that most of us (not all I am sure) know our bodies. I went to a specialist once, gave him my list of ails and he rather sarcastically stated that what I told him could be any number of problems and implied it was in my head. Well I wanted the problems resolved regardless of what he thought, and persisted . So he ordered a series of tests (a bunch of tests that were very difficult on my system), an exploratory surgery and then confirmed 5 different diagnosis going on in the same area of my body. He was a bit more humbled after that.
I think it is important that if we aren’t feeling up to par that we don’t allow doctors to intimidate us into simply living with the ails we have. In their defense, there are unquestionably a lot of hyperchondriacs out there and I am sure the doctors tire of them. But it does irritate me when an otherwise healthy person goes to the doctor and he/she fails to listen. I found myself slumping into depression simply because I never felt good. If you know your body, and you know there is something wrong, be persistent. If you believe there are non-modern medicinal ways of helping yourself, then yes, I would avoid potentially harmful drugs.
hmm,
Thanks for your thoughts on this one.
I’m thinking there are LOTS of people who just go to a dr., say, as an example, “dr., my cholestrol is high – what should I take to fix it?” and the dr. gives them a script for X drug, then follows it up with “eat less of Y and Z and do more of A and B”. I think that’s our basic formula in this country. We (the patient) don’t care to take on the responsibility of (for example) finding out exactly WHY our cholestrol is high, exactly what, if anything, we might try before turning to rx drugs, and which side-effects of said drugs may or may not be something we’re willing to risk. We just expect the dr. to fix it.
In a way, it’s no wonder so many drs. get annoyed when a person like me goes in and says (this has really happened to me) “I eat extremely low fat, WHY on earth is my cholestrol so high?” That happened to me in college – my choloestrol was through the roof! I’m twenty years older now, I eat MORE eggs and other fats, and gee what do you know? – my cholestrol is LOWER. Why? Because I finally figured out that my thyroid was wonky and when one’s thyroid is wonky all kinds of bizarre things get tweaked inside the body because the thyroid is a master cylinder of metabolism.
See? We don’t take the time to learn WHY certain things might run amuk within us. We just learn that “something” (cholestrol) is off, so we take drug X We later find that our joints are achy so we are prescribed drug Y. THEN we realize we’re having blood pressure issues so we now need drug Z. We and our drs. treat our symptoms, but how often do we take the time to treat our illness?
Unless an illness is critical like cancer, we tend to just gloss it over so we can hurry up and get back to our lives, remaining ever-unimpeded by what our body is trying to tell us. A GOOD alternative healer can and usually does look at the whole picture and offer suggestions. For instance, in the case of acupuncture, ours will look at the tongue and determine, by its state of texture, color, etc., if there is “heat” or “cool”, or “dry” running through the chi. While such concepts seem ludicrious to pooh-poohers, it makes perfect sense to the acupuncturist, who may then have a starting point from which to trace an imbalance. Sometimes, for instance, if a person (like me) has been on a strong course of antibiotics, that person’s intestinal flora can (and usually does) get out of balance. It wasn’t too many years ago that drs. tended to pooh-pooh the idea of antibiotics screwing up the balance in one’s tummy, but nowdays more are finally coming around to the idea that this can be a problem.
EVERY action has a consequence. Antibiotics kill bacteria. That is good for ridding oneself of an infection. It is also BAD for keeping the tummy bacteria healthy. EVERY action has a consequence. Weight loss drugs supress the appetite, some drugs also cause heart problems. And so it goes. A friend of mine had terrible trouble losing weight and ended up on one of those meds. which caused her heart problems. She later determined her weight issues were caused by gluten intolerance (oops – she has celiac disease – a condition that many traditionan drs. discounted for DECADES). She cut out the gluten, still maintains the same calorie content, and has lost sixty pounds. The consequence in her case of removing gluten was – her body reacted better to being un-offended by something it was intolerant to.
Every choice has a consequence, I’m asking people (both patients and drs.) to consider the consequences of every health choice. Be responsible for your own health care and hopefully eventually drs. will start to take us more seriously.
Again, long-winded on my part Thanks for taking the time to read through it.
I agree with much of what you’re saying. I had to adjust my diet a lot by the time the doctors were finished with me or I would probaby weigh in at 75 lbs. My diet at the time, combine with health problems (perhaps caused by my diet?) was making me sick. Once I found out what the problems were and what caused them and then the surgical repair of two problems, I had to adjust my food intake accordingly. I am also a fan of yogurt and I know that helps a lot. I tend to eat more yogurt when I am on antibiotics and try to avoid those too if possible.
I tend ot veer more towards vitamins and proteins, plenty of berries, yogurt, etc., then the herbal remedies. Where I grew up, we grew most of our own vegetables and fruits which made it easier and tastier to eat right, as well as more cost effective. Moving here, our diets changed a lot simply because we didn’t have the year round access to home grown fruits and vegetables. Healthy food shuffled by the wayside.
I do think a large part of health problems comes from todays fast paced society. Many find fast foods easier and cheaper. We’re served huge portions of everything and we tend to want to eat every bite. We don’t consider until much later, that these foods have had a very negative effect on our systems.
I concur.
I definitely believe in natural health and healing. If you think about it, our bodies are healing itself every single day, every single moment. We just need to help it. Unfortunately, our modern way of living, as well as modern medicine’s methods, are mostly hampering it.
Another unfortunate thing are natural healers who are fakes and only in it for the money – they spoil the good name of the field.
One more point I would like to make – it is ironic that modern medicine is referred to as ‘traditional’, considering it’s only a couple of centuries old, whereas many natural healing modalities have been around for literally thousands of years.
Wow, Reuben, thanks for commenting! And you’re right, we have the names backwards on our healing methods, when we say that modern medicine is the “traditional” way to health, and natural remedies are the “alternative” way.
You have a nice website, too. Here’s hoping you have good health.
Thank you, Nemesis. I wish you the best of health, too. We all deserve to be healthy and happy, so let’s work towards that!
Consulting a ‘traditional’ physician is my first resource for medicine, but I will admit that for very minor things, I have used homeopathic remedies. Some medical physicians will dismiss alternative methods altogether; others encourage some of it. As others on this topic have already stated, a person needs to do their research and see what works for them.
Not all marked homeopathic solutions are truly homeopathic. Many of them, like the brand Zycam, actually do have detectable levels of the active ingredient used to treat whatever the solution is purported to cure.
True homeopathic solutions have no active ingredient present. They won’t hurt you, but they certainly don’t cure anything, either. Placebo effect only.
#18 ooh_child…I have a difficult time with your assertion about the homeopathic remedies. “They won’t hurt you, but they certainly don’t cure anything, either. Placebo effect only.”
See, that happens to be exactly what I believe, too…but I would not presume to announce emphatically that it is the truth, because there are many believers to the contrary out there.
So there is a place I would expect to see an “IMO” or something, because it has not been proven one way or the other…
But I am interested in the concept of some homeopathic medicines still having active ingredients in them, I was not aware of that. I thought the idea was to leave only the “essential properties” or something…wasn’t that supposed to be why they were so effective?
Makers of remedies have found that putting the “homeopathic” label on their merchandise allows them to charge up to 15% more retail, so it’s just a money deal.
I found out about Zicam when it was recommended to my husband & he brought a bottle home. I immediately saw the homeopathic label & looked to see what the ingredients actually were. That’s when I saw that it did indeed have “active” ingredients.
That’s when I started to research the matter more. I realize some folks still think water has “memory” & truly homeopathic solutions have some effect beyond just the placebo, & I am more than willing to show them the errors of their ways.
I admire the strength of your convictions, ooh. I also agree with you.
Nice post.
Nemesis,
You don’t need to investigate something to know that it is basically a load of bull. I don’t know very much about astrology, but I can tell you that it is completely wrong on every prediction, except for what it gets right by chance. I can say that even though many people believe in it. The number of people who believe in something is rarely a valid measure (hence George Bush’s 2004 victory).
The reason I can reject astrology is that it doesn’t follow the scientific method, because it is not predictive and it is not falsifiable.
By the way, the use of the word ‘traditional’ when it comes to medicine is a statement about whether it follows the scientific method, not a statement about how old it’s treatments are.
As I understand it, homeopathy has two basic principles. First, it takes as a basis the belief that small amounts of something that are harmful or fatal in larger quantities is a good thing. It’s second basic principle is that you can dilute these harmful substances to such an absurd degree that there is an infinitesimal chance that any of the substance remains in the solution. That’s how they get away with administering poisons without poisoning people. (Note: I could be wrong about these principles, but homeopathy is not worth the time to check.)
True homeopathic remedies are plain water, and only work because of the placebo effect. This has been proven, and there is no uncertainty. It is emphatically true that homeopathy is complete bull, no matter how many people think it works. More scientifically, as I originally said in comment #2, homeopathy is totally harmless, except to the extent that it dissuades people from getting appropriate help.
Hey, Idahogie. Astrology being untrue I can base upon empirical data, and personally know that it’s baloney.
Homeopathy, which sounds ridiculous to me, too, is something I’ve never encountered and couldn’t tell you personally about. And I’ve not seen/read about scientific studies about its efficacy.
So to me, even though it sounds really silly, without seeing scientific studies to back up my belief, and without any observable experience with it myself, I have to say my disbelief is only my opinion.
Although I have that same opinion about many things such as bigfoot and Elvis sightings and J.E. who claims to talk to the dead, so…
I just love “know it alls”. They’re really very amusing to me!
They’re very amusing to all of us! Blog commenters tend to state personal beliefs as a general rule. Most of our statements are opinions. Sometimes others forget that fact, that what is written is mostly opinion.
So when I write something, or when you write something, we all should remember it’s our personal opinion we’re espousing. We may have great data and be able to back up our opinions with well established documentary evidence, but the reader then has to decide how much of that comment is probably true and how much belongs on the “letters to the editor” page.
I hope you continue to be amused at the debate, and join in with your own opinion, church mouse!
Sometimes folks are under the impression that there’s always two sides to any given issue. That’s where opinion comes in.
But there are times when an issue has only one side, the correct side. People can believe whatever they want, but that doesn’t mean their opinion has weight. Many people are of the opinion that the Holocaust was a hoax, an exaggeration pushed by Jews. Does this opinion, which is backed up by writings & examinations, deserve a place in educated discussions? Does it hold weight?
Our media bend over backwards these days, trying to present equal time for dissenting views. I see this attitude seeping over into the general populations’ views, so folks now believe both sides have equal value. Sometimes they don’t, & someone has to point that out.
Ooh_child, whodathunkit, that I am more moderate than you on this issue!
I believe that the Holocaust happened. I believe we landed on the moon. I can prove neither one, but I can submit much documentation to support my beliefs. However, my buddy CR67 does not believe that we landed on the moon, and I’m thinking he probably feels he has plenty of documentation that backs up his particular opinion, too. Does his assertion hold weight? I don’t believe it’s true, but on an opinion blog I’m certainly not going to tell him that he IS wrong, only that every scientific piece of evidence that I’ve seen suggests that his opinion is incorrect.
So I’d support stating that “it’s widely accepted as fact” or “the preponderance of evidence suggests” or something to that nature, but some things said are still better expressed as opinion, imo.
Because every time I try to point out someone is incorrect, I tend to receive as a response that it’s only my opinion that they are incorrect. They’ve basically made up their minds already, now all I can do is tell them my version of the truth as I know it.
I’m not referring to things that can be proven at this moment, such as Geo. W. Bush is President (to my dismay) and there is a war in the Middle East. I’m referring to things for which there are claims made that we can’t substantiate, but that does not mean they are false. Only that right now, we can’t prove one way or the other (and to me homeopathy fits in that category.)
I believe it’s a placebo, or outright fraud. I haven’t seen any scientific studies that suggest one way or the other, just my common sense. But others believe and have personal testimony of SOME effect. So how can I state as truth, absent hard science, that they are wrong and I am right?
Are we maybe speaking about apples and oranges?
The thing is “opinion” is very vast and so is “fact”. What some people perceive as fact, is in fact somebody elses opinion. Just as people think “God” is real and based on fact, it could also be perceived as just somebody’s opinion from thousands of years ago. Afterall, we have no scientific fact such an “entity” exists. I think too often certain people here (which will remain anonymous) try to claim fact when it’s merely the “opinion” of some scientist or the “opinion” of some website, and not fact at all.
all this of course is my opinion based on fact.
I have no opinion on any of the above 4 listed opinions and will not form an opinion lest my opinion be considered opinionated.
LOL @ hmm…..now THATs good comedy right there!
You might say that nobody can know anything to a standard of absolute truth (which really doesn’t have much meaning, actually). However, for the words right, wrong, true, and false to have any meaning at all, we need to recognize the colloquial meaning of them. When I say “I am right and you are wrong,” what I mean is that there is an overwhelming pile of evidence that supports my position, and that no reasonable, informed court of physical or historical law could reconcile the opposing view with the data.
We landed on the moon. Anyone who says otherwise is a conspiracy theorist of the highest order, and reveals more about their own capacity for rational thought than about the issue itself. There are no arguments to support the hoax hypothesis that aren’t easily debunked, and there is absolutely zero physical evidence that supports such a position. Further, there is every reason to believe that the government is entirely incapable of perpetrating such a fraud. Within the next couple of years, there will be a satellite placed in orbit around the moon that will have the ability to resolve the artifacts that we left there. You’d think that will be the end of it, but the moon hoaxers will just claim more fabrication on the part of NASA. They are totally wrong, nonetheless.
Homeopathy is quack science. It has been proved, over and over. The only evidence that it works is anecdotal, and other people’s anecdotal experience (or your own, actually) is the absolute weakest form of evidence on which to make a statement.
There are plenty of things that are uncertain. There are also many things that aren’t. At some point, you have to be able to say something is either right or wrong, true or false, science or fantasy. The Holocaust, the moon landing, astrology, and homeopathy are settled matters. Others are free to hold contrary opinions, but I am free to tell them they are wrong, even on an opinion site.
If anybody has real evidence that I am mistaken, then I’m open to hearing about it.
Idahogie, much as I love you for your unabashed forthrightness and your pure honest heart, I guess this is the kind of thing where on SOME subjects, I’m willing to allow others to express their beliefs and I will tell them my side, but I don’t feel I can tell them their beliefs are wrong. Mind you, that’s on SOME subjects, especially if all I have to offer on my own side is anecdotal evidence or “I read somewhere” which is sometimes what I end up writing.
If I personally believe they are wrong, I will tell them what I think and why. But if I don’t feel I can prove it or point to enough evidence to help back up my cause, (or if I don’t feel it’s worth the fight) I’ll just speak my peace and disagree with them.
But if everyone agreed, or if everyone thought the same way or had the same approach to things, it’d be a pretty boring world!
I like that you and ooh_child (and others) are willing to come right out and say it how you feel it…I used to be that way. Don’t know why I’m not there anymore (not necessarily more evolved, maybe I’ve just devolved or gotten more timid) but that’s where my head is now.
Gee, soft in the head Nemesis! (Let’s keep that our little secret, shall we?)
Comment 31 makes me love the ChurchMouse. (thank you CM!) What really says something (or nothing) about a person is when they feel the need to prove how right they are about so called “facts” when they cant honestly prove them without a shadow of a doubt. If you really think about it, you’re only going off what “other” people have told you or what “other” people have already formed “opinions” on. Like the global warming issue theres no reasonable debating of this issue either, especially when some posters feel the need to be so condesending towards others opinions. To say “homepathy is quack science” shows true ignorance on your part. If homepathy works for some people, then how can that be “quack science”? Whether you thinks it’s the placebo effect or not. You see I can respect your opinion, but I cant respect your need to constantly say “I’m right and you’re wrong” anytime somebodys opinion differs from your own. And thats the difference between you and many other posters on this site Idahogie. You enjoy being condesending towards others because of your “need to be right” all the time.
Like churchmouse said, its rather amusing. But at the same time sad.
Excellent comment Nemesis. You absolutely nailed it.
And just for the record, I could care less what Idahogie thinks about me OR my opinions on an issue.
Dying Breed….you certainly got the “condesending” part down.
Have a great night everyone!
Ah, shucks. You mean ChurchMouse was referring to Idahogie, and not to ME???
Isn’t it all about ME ??? Dangit. I was getting some street cred there and now I have to give it up.
See, Dying Breed, I don’t see Idahogie as condescending, and neither do I see ooh_child as condescending. They’re just forthright, the same as Bundy, the same as Guest House, the same as Guest of a Guest. In fact, the same as you are being when you call him condescending…which is really your perception/opinion of his comments and may not be how he intended to come across.
Ah, I love this place! Anyone want to comment some more on the medicine that walks like a duck???
It’s not what I think, Dying Breed. It’s been shown through scientific study that the only effect of homeopathy is through the placebo effect. Also, it has no mechanism to work – it’s just water (or alcohol, or sugar). It makes sense that the only effect would be the placebo effect.
How much would you like to bet that we can go down to the health store, buy some homeopathic remedy, and do a double-blind study with distilled water, and neither a chemist nor homeopathic “physician” could tell the difference? I’m willing to put up money to prove my position, exactly because it’s not my opinion – it’s scientific fact.
Please point out where I’ve ever said “I’m right and you’re wrong” anytime somebody’s opinion differs from mine. You can’t. Don’t over-react.
Comment #31: “Others are free to hold contrary opinions, but I am free to tell them they are wrong, even on an opinion site.”
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha……I think this sums up Idahogie’s perception of this site and all its posters.
but maybe that is just my ‘opinion’
CR67 – I never referred to you. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Have you expressed some opinion about homeopathy or the other issues brought up as examples?
I think this sums up your ability to use logic. How has any comment I’ve made given you any indication of what my perception of this site and all its posters is, exactly?
Or was your point just to hurl an insult, to see if you could get a reaction?
Here is where you referred to CR67:
“We landed on the moon. Anyone who says otherwise is a conspiracy theorist of the highest order, and reveals more about their own capacity for rational thought than about the issue itself. There are no arguments to support the hoax hypothesis that aren’t easily debunked, and there is absolutely zero physical evidence that supports such a position. Further, there is every reason to believe that the government is entirely incapable of perpetrating such a fraud. Within the next couple of years, there will be a satellite placed in orbit around the moon that will have the ability to resolve the artifacts that we left there. You’d think that will be the end of it, but the moon hoaxers will just claim more fabrication on the part of NASA. They are totally wrong, nonetheless.”
As Nemesis pointed out, CR67 has his/her own theory about whether we landed on the moon and posted an article about it.
Sorry – I haven’t been around long enough to know about CR67’s hypothesis on the moon landing. I was just addressing the issue, not anybody in particular.
However, it isn’t a matter of opinion whether we went to the moon. It’s a matter of fact, and it’s easily provable. I stand by my comment.
But I would like to know if CR67 will be convinced when he sees the photos that will be returned by the orbiter that will be sent to the moon in the next couple of years.
For those of you with irritability, nux vomica is recommended, lol
*Disclaimer: This comment has no scientific or medical basis, and may only be a placebo.UN:F [1.8.4_1055]
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Idahogie, I wasn’t aware that there had been studies which proved that homeopathic medicine had only the same effect as a placebo, so that’s my bad.
Remember, in #27 I said “absent hard science”. So maybe I should have mentioned, “absent hard science that I’m aware of”…
I agree with everybody calm down, it’s getting hot again and motives are being ascribed that I’m sure are not there. Idahogie is not the attack dog of the liberals, he’s a very smart man with lots to share, who won’t take any guff from anyone (including me!)
I’ve seen very smart commenters here lose their cool, and it also appears there is some sock puppeting going on (to hide the normal id, which maybe is only to let them make embarrassingly inane comments?) and it’s really unnecessary, imo.
Easterner, I applaud your comment #40, you were attempting to explain and did not join in the attack. I appreciate those kinds of comments!
As I pointed out before, I think many of you who believe there’s “something” to homeopathic remedies are really attaching the name incorrectly. Many off-the-shelf medicines do have active ingredients, so these don’t count when those of us skeptics claiming homeopathy doesn’t work as advertised.
There is absolutely no scientific evidence that water has “memory”, or reacts to dilutions past detectability. This is the central claim of homeopathy. Once they can jump this particular hurdle, then they can proceed with all the other claims of practitioners.
To those folks who say, “Who does it hurt?” I’ll answer with everyone’s pocketbook. If someone was selling plain old water on the street corner claiming it cured cancer, would you just walk away? Or would you complain about the fraud to someone in charge? This is a millions/year industry, otherwise legitimate pharma companies wouldn’t be jumping on the band wagon.
I’m harsh because this is such an obvious scam. Why sugar coat it?
Ever hear of Reiki? It’s a sort of “energy healing” if you will, and from what I’ve heard it’s pretty swell.
My dad has a website up for Reiki training classes (free of course, wouldn’t be posting the link if he charged), but there is also a wealth of information to be found there. Check it out and see if it might help with your medical issues. If not, new thing are always interesting to read about
.
http://www.reiki.strucksilent.com/reiki.html
thanks nemesis for your nice words.
I have had a problem with pain in a section of my back, so my first instinct was to go to my chiropractor. After several visits, the pain hasn’t changed. His next course of action was Trigger Point Injections. I can’t remember what was in the cocktail of ingredients exactly, but while listing them for me, the last thing he said was “and other homeopathic ingredients”.
I have to say, I’m not very fond of vaguaries involving my medical care, even though I’ve gone to this chiropractor for years. The pain from the shots alone was horrible (and I’m not usually a baby), but they were done on Monday, and I’m still waking up close to tears barely able to move my arm and shoulder. This pain is not anywhere near the original site, (which seems unaffected), but where most of the shots were given (there were several).
Has anyone else here ever had trigger point injections, and what did they include? We did a little research and it seems that there are varying ideas on what goes into these concoctions. How did you react, and did they help?
Oh, ugh, I’m so sorry for you, Alice. I’ve never had these things, nor do I know anyone who has.
As someone who has resorted to alternative medicine for my chronic painful condition (and had no relief), at least I didn’t have my situation made worse.
I had a client several months ago who came into my office wearing a neck brace. I asked him about it, and he reluctantly told me that a chiropractor had manipulated his neck so poorly it caused a vertabrae injury. He had to wear the neck brace until the surgeons (Yay! he finally went to a medical doctor!) could operate on his neck to fix the injury.
I believe he was reluctant to tell me his story, at first, because he was embarrassed that he trusted a quack. He finally admitted (after I told him about some really good massage therapists in town) that he should have gone to see one of them instead of the chiropractor in the first place.
Chiropractors paytens of thousands of dollars to be taught about such bullpucky as subluxations. A massage therapist (IMHO) pays much less for training, usually charges much less than a “licensed” chiropractor, and one has a much reduced chance of injury such as suffered by my client.
My advice: whenever anyone pushes anything homeopathic on you, leave immediately. It’s a scam to take your money.
i went to the london cafe on broadway with my parents and children we found it very friendly and welcoming, the fish and chips are the best in town, my son didnt like any think on the kids menu (fusy eater lol) so the chef robbert made him a small kids ribs he was very excited and loved his food, i recomend the london cafe to all,
Thanks for the review Alexis.
Maybe Joe can put it in the correct post when he gets a chance so everyone looking through our restaraunt list will see it.
Thanks again!