Through the first half of my life activism seemed to be an almost expected response to distress. Whether it be civil rights, Vietnam, abortion or a host of others, people on both sides of an issue felt that making their voice heard in protest was an effective way to accomplish change. Heck, I remember the farmers driving their tractors to the capitol in DC. Today, not so much. Is it because of the apathy of the American people that we hear so much about or is it that we haven’t yet reached the limit of our collective pain threshold?
We stand idolly by watching our Country and Economy being bludgeoned to death by high fuel prices and do nothing about it. Of course, I realize that we cannot change the world oil market with a protest; nor do I propose that we try to.
The change that we need to push for is one in our own country and I submit that we can do it.
Energy independence is a possibility for the United States and It can be accomplished sooner than most people are aware. Washington needs only to feel that we Americans are sick and tired of sending our dollars overseas to buy oil, and in many cases, to countries who conspire against us. If you have any doubt about the wealth we are creating over there, search the web for new growth in the middle east. If our government would move to allow the use of resources in our own country, on shore and off shore, as well as facilitate the development of new refineries and energy generation plants of all types the money that is leaving our country would stay here and would begin to heal our sagging economy.
I propose that we start a movement that will let Washington see how we feel. My idea is something like everyone in the US flying the flag up-side-down (the sign of distress) this coming Labor Day. A fitting tribute to the American worker. Can you imagine the impact of a hundred-million flags or more? Maybe you have a better idea? I’d like to hear.
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Gato got runned over by Marcus many moons ago. Be ye daft, 2486? 
Let's have a new poll, alright, Joe?
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I seriously doubt a flag flying upside down is going to do much of anything, but hey at least you’re trying so I have to give you that.
I heard a saying a long time ago that a nations government should be afraid of it’s people, not the people afraid of it’s government. This is the problem with America. We’re too afraid to stand up for what we believe in, in order to make serious changes.
Just about every citizen in every other country throughout the world have no problem getting out in the street and causing chaos when they dont believe in how their government is being run. Oh, but not us. No, we sit in our big houses watching out big screen tv’s while we look outside at out 2 or 3 cars in the parking lot and we sit idley by why our nations government rapes each and every one of us. And we have nobody to blame except ourselves. We’ve become a nation of weak whiney babies who expect our every need to be catered to. It’s the same premise on this sight with the “oh, don’t hurt my feelings with your harsh words”. or the “oh, don’t gang up on me like that for my beliefs”. Buck up already and stop your whining!!
And until the people of this nation wake up and learn to stand up for themselves, we will continue to be raped by our government in every aspect of our lives. Our government is supposed to work for US, “we the people”. When is the last time in history that has happened? I sure as he!! can’t remember.
So go right ahead and fly your flags upside down, I can promise you it’s not going to make the least bit of difference!
(but that’s just my opinion)
God Bless America!
Guest_house, It is great to see that you’re as passionate as ever but honestly, words are just words. Mine is a call to some sort of action though it be admittedly mild in it’s inception. All I hear from you is more complaint. How about you get on board and help figure out how to make an impact?
I wouldn’t consider hanging a flag upside as “action”, but that’s just me. GuestHouse is right….until people wake up and actually WANT change, change isn’t going to happen. It’s not going to happen with a peaceful demonstration with a group of people walking across Broadway bridge. Do what other countries do….get out there in the middle of the street and block traffic, raise hell and demand action. it’s because our government KNOWS we the American people won’t do that, why nothing ever changes. The American people are afraid to take back their govt and so things will continue to stay the same.
Political protest is tolerated by the state insofar as it does not effectively threaten the economic interests represented by the state, imho.
I think to effectively see change, we have to start small in our own lives. I hate whiners and entitlement-minded people too, including those like this in my own family/friend/professional circle. Before, when someone would complain about something they were perfectly capable of handling themselves, I’d jump in with a “what can I do, here you go, this should help” mentality. Of course, this only amplified their “neediness” and dependancy issues. If you look really hard at everyone you deal with at work and in your personal life, you’ll find them. Enabling and helping are two totally different concepts.
My husband, in his professional work, gets these types all the time. He’s really good at telling them, tactfully, to take a walk. (sad we have to watch for frivolous lawsuits around every corner)
I don’t agree with the statement our country is raping us. Maybe some of you do. Other than enormous taxes we pay, we are both hard working, honest, educated people who are trying to raise a good family. We don’t break the law, donate to charity, and take care of our own needs without relying on the state to swoop in and save the day. We make responsible decisions and think about consequences of everything we do. We save for the future, as most of you know the social security system will likely not be there when we retired. There are a lot of things we can do on an individual/family level to feel more empowered and in control.
I know it seems small, but until we all make daily changes in our own lives, no crazy street protesting and burning SUV’s will make a bit of difference in the long run.
There are millions of people across the country that do the exact same things “reader and his/her family does”, but is change taking place? I don’t think so. What about all those people who worked for Enron and other major corporations that lost their retirement accounts, they were “following the rules” too. Drastic times call for drastic measures. The fact is our government is driving this country into the ground with their need to “police the world” and control every aspect of our lives. No amount of “charitable donations or saving for the future” is going to stop that. It’s this type of mentality that “if I’m a good little worker bee and I do good, good things will happen to me” that have closed peoples eyes to what is really going on with this country. It’s that type of mentality that keeps our troops occupying another country for their oil, instead of striving for change in our government. It’s that type of mentality that will continue to have special interest groups and big business put whoever THEY decide into the Presidency instead of having the general population and a popular vote elect our govt.
Being a “law abiding citizen and saving for ones future” is not going to change our govt. imo
Finally, Guest House and Crystal agree!!
Well Said!
The problem with topics such as these, are the generalizations and vague exclamations of those who feel passionate about it. I can and will do what I see as right in my own life. I can’t save Enron employees. I’m not sure it’s my job to. Our belief is – do not trust everything in the government programs will be there. Believe me, we have as many ducks and backup plans for our future well-being lined up as is possible right now.
Shouts of “we must revolt” – and ideas the government in America is ever going to be overthrown will probably not pan out in our lifetime.
But, if you have specific, concrete, doable ideas, love to hear them everyone. What precisely do you think people can do to stand up for themselves? I mean people here, right here in little ol Bonneville County? I’m being serious, not sarcastic, because again, discussions like this are too full of general talk or bold exclamations and not real detailed ideas of action.
What are you going to do?
What CAN we do? We have let a corrupt government control our country and our lives for so long, there isn’t much you can do besides revolt. Personally I have written dozens and dozens of letters over the years to my governor, senators, congressman and president. Do you know what kind of results I always get?? A generic letter telling me “thank you for your concern, We’re doing everything we can”. Yeah right!
Would it help if more people did this? I don’t know, possibly. But what I do know is nothing is currently working, and hanging a flag upside down doesn’t seem like it would do very much. (to me).
So I ask you….what have people done throughout history when they were unhappy with their government? Certainly not sit still or go about their daily lives with the hopes that if I’m a good person and I abide by the rules, I’ll be ok.
Perhaps there aren’t enough people unhappy with their government. It’s either that or they’ve closed their eyes to the real problems in this country.
C’mon Mike…..we need your input on this one! (I know you’re watchin from the sidelines…..don’t be skerrd)
Symbolic acts don’t do a thing. How much good did all those yellow ‘Support the Troops’ ribbons do? What was that supposed to mean, anyway? From the first, the slogan and symbol could be taken many different ways.
If you don’t like the way things are going, the best way to change them is the ballot box. This year, we don’t have to wait around to make changes happen, either… the election is coming right up.
Change happens real fast when politicans start losing their jobs in signficant numbers… Herbert Hoover declared he could do nothing about the Great Depression, but FDR started turning things around in 60 days.
As bad as things are now, they were worse then. There are folks in both parties who will work for the deep changes that need to be made, and folks in both who won’t. Decide for yourself who will, and hire them. Fire the bums who won’t, or worse, do nothing at all.
Somehow I don’t think that the message I intended got through. It must be my fault. I’m not nearly naive enough to believe that little ol’ Idaho Falls is the Mighty Mouse that is going to save the world. The idea is more of a dropping a rock in the pond thing. All of those ripples have a point of origin. Surely you don’t doubt the possibility that we could start something here that could grow nationwide by a given date, say Labor Day for instance.
The other option of my original thought was that perhaps the collective pain threshold of the populous has not yet been reached. I think that is most likely where we are still at but I also believe that we may well be there by the end of the summer, especially if we start experiencing large lay-offs that I would bet are coming.
Hang 007 upside down on the flag pole!
LOL, good one Bundy!
Layoffs? I don’t see it….at least not where I work. Our business is thriving…..don’t see any layoffs in the near or distant future. But it could be possible for some I suppose. After all, I don’t see that Shell station on Yellowstone & 17th staying open much longer since they haven’t sold any fuel in about a month.
The bicycle business is booming though.
Okay. Good post, I had to sleep on it, because my mind was pretty cluttered last night.
I don’t know that one act of flying the flag upside down would represent a movement, or a victory, or even a strong message to Washington.
I also don’t know what would make a difference, that I can have an influence on, locally. Typically a nationwide movement would require a well established organization, and someone’s time and efforts to coordinate all the groups. I don’t know anyone who has that kind of free time available, and who knows how to organize a nationwide group of people.
That being said, I’ve also been feeling the urge to do something (not as drastically as Quest to Arm) in my dotage. I yearn to make a difference in my world. I hear the call to activism.
If your nationwide movement was an ongoing movement, and the flag statement was just the beginning of a number of planned activities, it could work. You’d have to have major media coverage as part of the planning, I think you could become a force that would be recognized and respected, and gain some effective changes as you thoughtfully carry out various kinds of protests.
But a one time low key protest event probably won’t be more than a forgotten blip in the passage of time, over with by the time the next media darling goes to rehab.
So, what would you think of expanding your plans?
After reading your article, my personal goal today is to find out why Frank Vandersloot is opposed to the wind turbines. I am fairly new to the Idaho Falls area, and briefly heard about his stance on the turbines via a local news station. I did not see the entire segment, so I truly do not know why he feels the way he does. Today, this will be my version of waving my flag.
Manybees has a point, though I am not sure how to implement it. We need to think globally but act locally. IF has lousy biking lanes (except in a few of the newer areas on the south side). We have no decent public transportation. Fight for those things on a local level. Help decrease each families need to use gasoline to get around town. Buy local food and commodities that aren’t shipped from thousands of miles. Do what you can personally do..
I think “doing something extraordinary” via the ballot box , as suggested above, is a wonderful idea.
Let’s get these clowns out of Congress in November.
Energy independence. That should be priority #1. As long as we have a military presence in the Middle East, as long as we have young men and women bleeding and dying to insure our access to those rich oil deposits, we should do our utmost to hasten the day when we are free of our oil addiction.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in three-ton jacked-up pickups and SUVs sporting the popular Support Our Troops magnetic stickers rolling around town, with one occupant and guzzling fuel at 4 mpg? Our oil gluttony has as much to do with our troop presence in the Middle East as it does with our shrinking dollar.
I am old enough to remember the protests against the Viet Nam War and the effect that those protests had in hastening the end to that conflict, I nevertheless feel that those types of demonstrations would have little effect in easing our energy woes in what is essentially a classic case of econ 101 (supply and demand). Perhaps a grass-roots approach at a local level might be more effective than staged protests. By that I mean something as simple as petitioning local governments to lead the charge for energy conservation, alternate sources for energy, fuel efficient and/or electric or hybrid, city, county and state vehicles. One has only to gaze up at the SE foothills on any given day to see those beautiful windmills cranking out power to wonder why our elected city/county leaders haven’t embraced that same bountiful resource to supply a goodly portion of our energy needs.
Protest if you will, but protest locally to those elected officials who could (with a little prodding) be innovative in their approach to the energy crisis, even if it’s only at the local level.
Has anyone given any thought to capturing methane at the garbage dumpsite atop the hill off Sunnyside Rd? That city owned ground also seems like an ideal location for an array of 1.5 MW windmills.
Great post, Meso.
[If your nationwide movement was an ongoing movement, and the flag statement was just the beginning of a number of planned activities, it could work. You’d have to have major media coverage as part of the planning, I think you could become a force that would be recognized and respected, and gain some effective changes as you thoughtfully carry out various kinds of protests.]
Thanks Nemesis, your saying exactly the kinds of things that I was thinking when I put pen to paper. What part of any movement that is worth while doesn’t require time and effort? I personally own a business that leaves me with little time for other things but I would be willing to give a lot to an effort that might bring some energy independence to this country. Call me idealistic but I think it would be an act of patriotism for anyone who participated. The challenge would be, among other things, to maintain focus and not let it just become a free-for-all for every individuals particular gripe.
CR67, Hopefully not a lot of jobs around here(except for home construction which has already crashed) but what about all of the airline jobs last week? Just this week I had a person apply for work who is currently employed in IF at an unnamed publisher. The “person” is being cut to part-time because the advertisers that place ads in the magazine he/she writes for aren’t selling product do to high fuel prices; hence less money for advertising.
I quite like your idea manybees and would be willing to give it a go. I think we would need both local and national attention in starting something like this but the reality is; America is in distress and we can and should make a stand.
This is how they are doing it in Europe:
Global fuel protests escalate, with auto plants and airlines hit
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080611/bs_afp/worldinflationprotestenergytransport
Disrupting commerce always has an effect. I guess the questions are what does one consider extraordinary, what are one’s objectives, what is one willing to sacrifice to meet them, and what is the price of failing to do so.
I think a clear objective is needed. If the objective is Energy Independence, what are a significant number of folks willing to do about it? Buy local? drive less? use less energy at home? let employees telecommute?
Having been involved in political movements, I personally see more positive outcomes when the struggle is for something, rather than against something.
Providing concrete things that individual people can do is an awesome idea, whether it’s a temporary measure that involves educating others, or small steps which together make a difference.
How about starting a coalition, if one does not already exist, of SE Idaho groups, environmental, ecology, farmers market, community gardens, alternative energy advocates, ie nuclear advocates, wind and solar advocates, student groups, teacher groups, etc.?
One of the best things about such a coalition is that there can be common objectives among people with widely divergent views on the issues.
For example, there are clearly those concerned about Areva, and other perceived sources of radioactive pollution, and those who feel strongly that nuclear is the answer. These two groups tend to disagree, often with much contempt, but underlying those differences are common concerns.
I think the situation is becoming drastic enough that those commonalities need to be guiding our action more than the differences are preventing cooperation, and eventually will. What do you think?
media shares are owned by big oil ,which is being used to advertise with.to include all these shocking stories of the escalation of price.ABC CBS NBC
could you elaborate?
crystal, your ideas are good. We need more of them. I think that the objective IS energy independence. Am I wrong?There must be things out there that we can do that will have national impact. Look at this link: http://terrorfreeoil.org. Maybe it is a first step.
I know that the trucking industry will get involved if the message is right. The prices are killing them, especially the independents.
manybees, can you send me a direct message? via Q&A Forum/inbox, compose?
Some of the links on the site you reference seem to be to zionist organizations, and to at least one radical anti-immigration group, which is concerning.
While the “terror free oil” concept is certainly attractive, and seems to merit exploration pending more developed sources of energy, it seems to me that moving away from oil might be more responsible and sustainable.
Nuclear, solar, wind, these are all technologies which would allow greater independence, and which don’t carry the same kind of baggage as “arab-free” oil. (Not that they don’t have their own baggage!).
Here is a link with a perspective on “Terror Free Oil” and it’s founder’s group:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6551.shtml
An excerpt:
Terror Free Oil’s claims are also economic nonsense. It has been forced to admit that its suppliers do in fact buy oil originating in Middle East countries. As oil is a fungible commodity, TFO cannot do anything to reduce income to Middle East oil exporters, unless it reduces the total amount of oil consumed globally.
It takes only moments to discover that TFO spokesman Joe Kaufman is founder of a group called “Americans Against Hate,” whose main agenda appears to be support for the Israeli extremist right. Its main product appears to be a relentless stream of statements claiming that mainstream American Muslim organizations are terrorist fronts, and labeling anyone who dares to criticise Israel a “radical Islamist” or supporter of terrorism. The whole “Terror Free Oil Initiative” and website appear to be little more than a ploy to steer people towards Americans Against Hate, whose Coral Springs, Florida mailbox serves as the corporate address for both organizations.
Prominent use of the image of Osama Bin Laden reinforces the association that all people in the Middle East are terrorists who should be boycotted
In a January 4 article on the extreme right-wing website Frontpagemag.com, Kaufman claimed that newly elected Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison “carried much radical Islamist baggage,” and he refers to American Muslim groups as “America’s live-in enemies.” Last December, Kaufman called California Senator Barbara Boxer a “senator for terror” because she bestowed a public service award on a Muslim American community activist who had previously criticized Israeli human rights abuses. Under pressure from Kaufman’s organization, Boxer, a staunch supporter of Israel, withdrew the award. (“Sen. Boxer rescinds award to Islamic activist,” Los Angeles Times, 6 January 2007).
The “Terror Free Oil” initiative was a successful, headline-grabbing stunt by a group of unabashed racists and demogogues. Would it have succeeded in getting so much benign and uncritical attention if its hateful message had been targeted at any other population?
Oh, Crystal, thanks for taking the time to do that research. I’m not willing to get involved with these kinds of groups, they pretend to be above hate but they really spread the same hate they should be fighting.
There must be other groups that are doing good things, actually doing (rather than talking about doing) good things, that we can take some tips from, right?
I feel like an old ewe, amongst many bleating sheep in my country, turning in circles because we don’t know what else to do. Surely there are leaders out there who have some good ideas and just need some enthusiastic help…
Manybees, what other organizations have you looked at for ideas? I agree that the truckers are probably in great pain right now, most industries that depend upon petroleum seem to be.
If we are talking Energy Idependence for fueling individual transportation, and for truckers, one great solution is already widespread in Utah:
http://www.questargas.com/FuelingSystems/NGV/ngv.html
When I first heard about Compressed Natural Gas vehicles in Utah, at 84 cents per gallon, I did some research.
Honda makes a CNG car which is available for sale, and many vehicles can be converted. The Honda is recognized by the EPA as the cleanest burning automobile engine on earth:
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/
I contacted the State of Idaho and learned that there are no CNG facilities accessible to the public, which is a problem because the Honda CNG has a range of approx. 250 miles on a full tank.
CNG vehicles can be filled at home from residential natural gas lines using a device called a Phill:
http://www.myphill.com/
The lack of CNG facilities in Idaho is a problem for anyone attempting to drive long distances, but could probably be overcome with a network of private users or a citizen campaign to get Idaho on board with other states.
The first link I provided has a nationwide station locator and also links to several other sites on where to buy CNG vehicles, laws, tax incentives, etc.
useful site: CNG CHAT
http://www.cngchat.com/forum/index.php
comment #17 – Lucinda – here’s a recent article on the wind turbine debate in Bingham County – like you, I’d also love to know why Frank V. is so opposed –
http://www.localnews8.com/Global/story.asp?S=8467961
What will win out here, property value and pristine views, or alternate energy sources and bonuses via taxes and cash for locals?
I imagine voicing our opinions at meetings like this help us do something locally, although it seems this project will never be decided at this rate.
I’m being very general here, so blown out of proportion alert, y’all…
Haven’t you noticed that wealthy people who are very conservative Republicans, tend to be against alternate energy sources, in general? It’s as if they have personal wealth tied up in oil or coal or natural gas, or something that plays off those resources.
Plus, the turbines are “eyesores” and if a wealthy person has money tied up in development deals for land nearby, it could rain on their parade.
I’m curious why this is an issue for him. Folks like him WANT the landowner to be able to do what he wants to with his own property, after all…don’t they?
I warned you it was a sweeping generalization, so feel free to ignore my blathering.
Is this the project that was discussed at a meeting in Bingham County last night? I read only 2 folks spoke for the project, and 4 or 6 against. Any conclusions reached?
crystal, Comment #30. Wow! Thanks for checking that out. I sourced that link soley for the page that lists which oil companies market domestic oil or oil from friendly companies vs. hostile nations. I’ll contact you.
Manybees, you are welcome.
Terror Free Oil sounds like a great idea. I think the arguments regarding the inability to certify any oil but our own as such are compelling, and many would argue that even our own isn’t “clean.”
Given the environmental impact of continuing on the path we are on with the use of oil, moving away from it seems like the most constructive thing we can do.
The pain being experienced in this country is profound, and is clearly only worsening. We have only to look to other countries to see what they are undergoing and what we are in for if we don’t take action on some level to institute change, as you suggest in this article.
Would you agree that the over-riding strength of this country in the last hundred years has been our transportation system? Most historians I’ve read tend to that line of thought. The fact that we cannot ignore is that that system is almost 100% based in fossil fuel. While I completely support development of all potential energy resources, the here and now is fossil fuel and without it our economy ceases to be. We will have to find a way to develop these alternative and ultimately better energy solutions and in the interem make the best of what we have. That to me means go get and use our own oil.
I strongly disagree that oil is the way to go. Change is rough, not changing is going to be unimaginably worse.
Whole fleets run on CNG engines. It’s cheap, minimally polluting, and the NG is a domestic product. Even the Governor of Utah drives a CNG vehicle.
There is a route calculator at the DOE alternative fuels site, when I used it I discovered that there are many private refueling stations in Idaho, mostly owned by Intermountain Gas. I wrote to them, and this was their reply:
Thank you for your e-mail. I have not heard any plans that Intermountain Gas will be opening any refueling stations to the public at this time. If you have any questions or if we can be of further assistance, please feel free to write our web site or contact our office at 1-800-548-3679 Monday through Friday from 7 am to 7 pm. Thank you again,Donna
I urge everyone to call and write with the same question, when will they make these refueling stations available to the public?
In the interim, CNG vehicle owners are a group who share alot of information amonst themselves, and it wouldn’t be too difficult to start a network for those who would max out their distance before hitting a station, or who cannot afford the time to detour their routes according to station availability.
Here is an article from kidk this morning, about a device which will allow truckers to maintain cabin temperature without leaving their trucks running: http://www.kidk.com/news/local/19885129.html
I wrote back to Intermountain Gas to ask them if the companies operating refueling stations in other states like Utah and Wyoming would need to come into Idaho, or whether Intermountain Gas would hope to capture that market.
Here is their email address:
“Intermountain Gas Company”
CUSTSERV@intgas.com
I also want to respond to comment #39, “over-riding strength of this country in the last hundred years has been our transportation system?”
Our public transportation system is a joke. I have been a cross country/international passenger on Amtrak several times, used trains in many other countries, even been a booking agent for SNCF in the US.
Our dependence upon gasoline is contrived, and has been continued to the great detriment of many now scrapped rail systems, and demolished now crime-ridden communities in the path of ever expanding freeways.
The social isolation stemming from our reliance on individual automobile prevalence and all that it entails creates garbage community as much as it junks up the atmosphere, poisoning the water and soil. The increased poverty which is resulting from the escalating cost of fuel will only further hasten our collapse as a society.
Again, domestic oil sounds good on the surface, but we don’t suddenly acquire the kind of production you refer to without incurring new costs.
Another thing about our transportation system that is so messed up is embodied in our diets. Eating locally produced foods, buying locally produced goods, can make a huge impact.
The following links are from the Eagle Rock Food Cooperative blog:
Did you know that the average food item in the US travels 1,300 miles from the farm to your dinner plate? Find out more at: http://www.cias.wisc.edu/foodshed/
Check out the “Price Tags/Cost Tags” to find out the hidden costs of commonly eaten foods and ways to seek out more sustainable alternatives: http://www.cias.wisc.edu/foodshed/pubsntools/articles.htm
Here are some more good links for people who would like to create change:
Idaho Falls Community Gardens:
http://www.srv.net/~klack/com_gard.htm
Eagle Rock Food Cooperative:
http://eaglerockcoop.blogspot.com/
Slow Food Movement:
http://www.slowfood.com/
Michael Pollan, author of “The Omnivores Dilemma”:
http://www.michaelpollan.com/
American Wind Energy Association, what you need to know to purchase a residential wind turbine:
http://www.awea.org/faq/rsdntqa.html
American Wind Energy Association, small wind for residential applications:
http://www.awea.org/smallwind/
Energy Information Association, how wind energy works:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/renewable/wind.html
USDOE Wind and hydrotechnologies home page:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/renewable/wind.html
“Internal Combustion” (How corporations and governments addicted the world to oil and derailed the alternatives) by Edwin Black was on the New York Times bestsellers list. It should be a must read for anyone trying to understand our present situation.
Black chronicles the history of transportation from the little known efforts of Thomas Edison and Henry Ford to mass produce electric cars to how GM criminally conspired to undermine mass transit in dozens of cities and how big oil, big corn, and big coal have subverted synthetic fuels and other alternatives.
Black’s call for a Manhattan Project scale effort to gain energy independence got my attention. The book was an eye-opener.
Here is his site:
http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/
Thanks, Crystal…wish I’d found that myself. It’s a great book, one you can’t put down after you start reading.
That site has alot of info on it, and I think I read something about some of the chapters in the paper copy have expanded info on the site. It’s overwhelming, upsetting. It was all I could do to refrain from cutting and pasting the part about Edison and the wind energy plans, powering every home. Maybe we deserve what we get, I just wish we didn’t trash it for everyone else. Really makes me that much more mad, when people fail to comprehend in their state of deluded nationalism that internationally traded corporations allow for the true extortion the people of this country. So much easier to just demonize poor immigrants or different cultures while totally ignoring cold hard economic reality, and the extent to which those people are fodder for the same machine which is destroying us.
Published 6/14, hot off the presses:
“Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol
Silicon Valley is experimenting with bacteria that have been genetically altered to provide ‘renewable petroleum’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece
“Japanese scientists create diesel-producing algae:”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133633.ece
Honda rolls out new zero-emission car
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080616/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_honda;_ylt=AsS9OdVAxRgaewX.0jPubWCs0NUE
I know for a fact we have the technology to run the world on free energy all the cars houses and everything that needs power canbe powered for a very low cost even almost totaly free. Our government is being run by buisness men and not the people our planet is suffering and so is mankind so people can make a buck. I even created a new energy source that is better than solar power and someone put a patent on it ASAP. Oil companies have scientist looking for ways to create cheap energy and free energy so they can put a copyright and patents on it and prevent us from having it. I wish the Government would change the laws so that people can duplicate and manufacture some of the products out there that could actualy save owur eart. Nuclear war and terrorism or plagues are not the real threat to mankind. Large corperate businesses and large old money is the alrgest threat to us. Our governmetn can not protect us if its really the bad guys puppet.
Amen to that
YOU created a new energy source? Allllrightythen!
Was this in your dreams or have the 9 years worth of college really been paying off? Pray tell…..what type of energy source did YOU create? (that somebody else patented) Please enlighten us. Obviously you didn’t create it if somebody else put a patent on it before you? Ya think?
btw…..not intending to personally attack at all so don’t take it as such, but I’m still wondering after all this college time you claim to have, why you still have such a difficult time spelling the simplest of words?
Guest, that is definitely a personal attack. You seem very angry and I haven’t seen you contribute anything positive to this thread. What are YOU willing to do?
Let’s quit accusing people of making personal attacks. This site is deteriorating rapidly due to all the accusations and allegations of people not following the comment guidelines. If you don’t like a comment that someone has made, then debate the merit of the comment and let’s quit with the accusations. Or, ignore the comment altogether. Let’s get back to where we were a few months ago. Enough people have been chased away because of all the petty bickering.
Crystal has been whining about that since she started posting on this site, so yes, I completely agree with 3333. If she’s so unhappy with this site and it’s posters, I suggest she find a local blog site in her own town/state for which to post.
Somebody mentioned in a different post that she tends to “carpetbomb” every topic and I tend to agree with that as well. I would like to see her have an actual opinion of her own, instead of googling every topic and posting somebody elses views or opinions, just for the sake of posting. It’s ok if you don’t know everything Crystal. You shouldnt feel like you need to google and cut and paste an answer to every topic. It’s def a turn off for other posters. I and about 4 other posters I know don’t comment nearly as much as we used to and it’s mainly because of her need to dominate and control every topic on this site. Get a mind of your own already. It’s really sad that this site has gone so far down hill over the past few months.
And for the record, this is not intended to be a personal attack on anyone or hurt anyones feelings. Just my opinion and thoughts on the matter.
Thanks and have a blessed day.
its not me miss spelling them its the computer I am on for some reason what I type comes out different. I wonder if I have a stupid virus on it. Yes I did come up with a new way to transform kenetic energy into electricity. I really do think rich men in our world stop cheap ways of producing energy from ever getting into the market.
You know what I personaly in my opinion do not like some of the idiots on here. especialy the anti christy ones. They are really anoying and stupid and should go find another site to post on. I am glad to see some of the mentaly challenged kids in the community like to come on here and post on this blog I just wish thier PSR worker would watch them a bit closer so they act like adults on here. I think its sad to see children left unatended so they can come on here and really make a mess of things. Did you guys take your meds today?
“a computer virus that makes you mis-spell words”???
ROFLMAO!
That’s rich!
He still hasn ‘t told us how “he” created a new energy source. I personally can’t wait to hear this one. (seriously)
Quest – I have an idea – don’t post the new energy idea here, write a new article. Explain what you mean so others can discuss /debate it with you. Submit it to Joe for a new thread, that way you don’t get this one so far off topic.
Quest, no offense intended here, but there is NOT a program or virus that types words differently than you intend. You may want to see a doctor and ask about dyslexia or other related diagnosis. Telling people here to take meds and get their PSR worker involved so “we” don’t leave our kids unattended is unnecessary, and likely a lot of projection on your part. Just because you have a lot of experience in these areas doesn’t give you the right to spout off at everyone else and make assumptions and accusations. Good luck.
I’d like to know what an “anti christy idiot” is?
I’m with GuestHouse and Reader on this one…..there is no virus out there that will mis-spell the words you type. Good try though. (I appreciate the chuckle on a Monday morning)
Now, how about that post regarding your latest “energy invention”? That should be a great topic to discuss.
I have an even better idea. Why don’t folks stop baiting quest to arm and directing insults at him so as to further insult him when he takes the bait? That would really help keep on topic, with the added bonus of keeping the people who obviously think they are superior to him from looking like insensitive and condescending juveniles.
Who is “baiting” crystal? I certainly wasn’t and neither was Reader. We merely stated a fact that a computer virus will not mispell words you type in a blog setting. And merely asked if he would elaborate on his “invention”. There was no “baiting” involved. So please don’t start problems where there are none.
The best idea Crystal is that quest would slow down and think about what he writes before posting at all. He is his own worst enemy here, not us. I suspect that is true in his real life too. It’s applaudable you and he stand up for each other, but look past it and try to look at his posts logically. He wouldn’t get half the grief he does if he expressed his views differently and didn’t act “macho” and in our faces all the time. He claims not to be the past “live free” but most will beg to differ. Although several have disagreed with you, at least you write well and don’t make outlandish accusations and crazy threats. There is a big difference here, and it’s exactly why some posters react. Sometimes I feel like we are all adults talking, other times it sounds like high school lunchtime trash talk. I prefer the former.
Perhaps Crystal you can give him some good, honest feedback and friendly critique since he will only listen to what you say.
CR – you must have been on a little vacation – didn’t see you posting for awhile. Welcome home!
Quest, depending on what system you are running, there is something called a Keypress bug that randomly interferes with keyboard typing, so you should definitely do everything you can to make sure you are operating on a virus-free system.
Yes I was…..and Thank you…good to be home!
To get back on topic…..will the US ever break free of our “energy dependance”? I don’t think we’ll see it happen in our lifetime. We would have to completely severe all ties with the Saudi’s and the Middle East and doing so would really hit the pocketbooks of too many major players in our government. Is it possible for our country to be energy independant? I believe it is. I just think money and power are more important to our govt, and that’s what will continue to hold us back as a nation.
Here is a link with more info on the virus:
http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_672.htm
It probably wouldn’t hurt to clean your keyboard too, esp. with little kids running around your operating environment
Geez crystal, give it a rest already! That virus has nothing to do with how he’s typing! (but of course you and mr google have an answer for everything dont you) Do you really have a mind of your own, or do you google everything before making a decision?
Reader, it would probably be easier for quest to take your good advice if he were not being baited and insulted.
Maybe those users who feel superior to him could demonstrate this for the rest of us by refraining from baiting and insulting him.
And Guest House, although you seem to know the status of quest’s computing environment, you must have missed the fact that he has had this same ongoing problem in the chatbox, which can be explained by debris in his keyboard or a virus, both of which can be addressed. Perhaps you can show us that you have a mind of your own by sticking to the topic instead of attacking other users.
I took a break from this site about 3 months ago and stop by just to read comments every so often. Crystal, you’re one of the reasons I don’t bother posting here anymore. Since you found this site all you’ve done is whine and complain. I agree with many other posters in regards to your “carpet bombing” topics and the fact that you don’t post comments unless their either 1. complaints, or 2. a Googled/cut and paste comment of somebody else’s views. I’ve sat back and watched for the past couple months as you’ve argued with almost everyone on this site. It’s pretty sad that you have nothing better to do.
Having 20 years of pc experience in building, configuring and maintaining networks and websites, I can tell you that Qwest’s issue with his typing/spelling problems have nothing to do with that virus you posted. But thats just another way for you to jump into the conversation. You think you’re the authority on everything because you googled it. And even if he had “crumbs in his keyboard” as you suggested, this is why we have a “preview” of our post to look at and proof read before submitting our comments.
I’m a member of numerous blog sites and I can honestly say you’ve made “whining” an art form on IFz.com and it’s sad to see this site loose so many decent members over the past few months.
Here’s a friendly suggestion: why dont you ignore anyone that you think is “baiting” and just stick to the topic? And regarding the “mind of your own” comment, lighten up on the cut and paste and offer the community more than “somebody elses opinion”. You’ll be amazed at the results AND respect you’ll receive.
Good day
Thank you Jose, CR67 and others, I have been trying to put my thoughts together on this issue, and post them. I don’t have to now. You reflect my feelings exactly, just want you to know you are not alone and there are many out there who share your same frustration..
As someone who has been on the receiving end of threats from quest or qwest or however he decides to spell it on a particular day, I think that he deserves whatever criticism he gets. His words speak for themselves. I am really putting forth an effort to avoid making negative comments. But when he starts calling other people idiots I would like to remind him that he doesn’t have much room to talk.
….Still waiting for that info on the new energy source…..
As a long time poster here (there are actually two of us who use this IP address but I do about 95% of the posting and the mods could verify through a simple IP check that I do have hundreds of comments here) I too am discouraged by the antics of some lately. One person in particular is so touchy about anyone who disagrees with her that she accuses them of personal attacks for merely having a differing opinion. And woe if you actually show through facts and links she was wrong. A personal attack is “You are a blankity blank person who really sucks.” A disagreement is “I think your wrong because . . . . . . . and here is why.” I wish this person could see the difference. I know I certainly haven’t posted nearly as much here lately simply because of this person. I won’t name names but we all know who I’m talking about. I hope this person continues to post here but I hope they also recognize how they are acting better. By the way, I realize this post is in some sense a personal attack but it needs said.
I am not allowed to talk about the project to much in detail. But I can tell you it has alot to do with magnetic fields and using motion to create energy. I will also add. You can’t create anergy and you can’t destroy energy you can only change the form energy is in. Imagine a wheel like a wind turbine with 35 pound pull Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB) magnets covering the entire outside with the south pole facing outward and the lower off wheel casing containing a North pole exposed magnet attached to a pivoting piece that lowers and comes back up to contact the exposed south poles causing the wheel to spin. Ofcourse you would need someone to use kenetic energy (your hand) to start the wheel on its spin. The magnets would stablize the motion with a slight disapation of energy or slight energy loss. This wheel can run for several weeks before losing enough spin to further excite electrons thus generating power. Here is an idea to start with. This is not the entire picture. There is also another design using (HO) Gas from H2O using a small electrical current from a car battery to seperate the HO gas from the H2O wich burns very well.
People in the past already knew this form of energy is possible. The poblem is magnetic field interference and structural damage caused from materials used in past experiments. I have figured out how to use this energy in such a way it could literaly free all of man kind from the grasp of economic slavery. I am very afraid to go public with it. Many people have been killed or just flat out disapear for creating such a thing. I try to keep it on the down low. Uncle sam would not like to see everyone with this technology. they would loose billions or even trillions of dollers in tax revenue if someone actualy was successfull in implementing the technologies into cars , homes, and electronics. Trust me the cooperate giants can kill who ever they want and they will to protect the precious black gold they sell to our global populations. YOU WILL NEVER SEE ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT GENERATES POWER CHEAP… They will not allow it.
Okay, before I just wondered, now my suspicions have been confirmed.
LOL! I won’t say anymore.
Qwest….seriously dude…..that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! I mean, if somebody else already took a patent out, supposedly, “on your idea”, why wouldn’t you be able to talk about it?
As for your magnet theory…..that’s technology has been in place long before you were alive, so I’m just confused on how you could have “invented” it? (that’s like Al Gore saying he invented the internet) Perhaps when you rode the monorail at Disney World when you were a kid the idea came to you?
I do appreciate a good story though, so thanks!
Quest’s ideas are nothing new in the realm of “free, cheap energy.” They have also all been debunked years ago.
The HO he speaks of is an HHO torch. At the risk of sounding like a fellow commenter, here is a link (*cringes*): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen
And isn’t it funny how he “can’t” go into detail, and yet he tells us that he’s using permanent magnets with 35 pound pull. Sounds detailed to me. Only that these machines don’t improve on our current synchronous generator efficiency. “You would need someone… to start the wheel spinning” means if you want any real power out of the device, you need steam from coal or nuclear plants – which is exactly what we already do.
I am feeling like Jose and Guest on this one – it’s almost not worth posting or reading on this site anymore. Joe Eagle, please do something!
What ever laugh all you want. Your children will use the technologies when they get older. Its to bad you wont see it in your near future. The technologies you refer to are the idiots who tried to copy the real working ones from the past. The problem is they could never get enough RPM and had severe magnetic interference. We have ironed out many problems with these technologies and when we made changes to them and had working models someone put a patent on it. I still will not talk about the newer one that works real good because someone will only copy it. I do not care who believes this or not but we have a working model.
the machine will run for several weeks from 1 spin from a persons hands. It produces just as much power as a 1,500 watt wind turbine. I think that is awsome. Here is the funny part we figured how to keep it going for several months using the wind to start it lol. I have been playing with these technologies for a long time always finding new ways to make it work better.
Get real Qwest and stop talkin nonsense. Nobody believes your BS.
I’m with the others here LMAO!
So you are saying that a person’s hand stroke, or a small gust of wind can provide 1.5 MW of power for several weeks? Do the math:
A professional cyclist can output 1/2 horsepower steadily at 100% conversion efficiency. That’s 373 Watts. To power a 1.5 MW generator for weeks, you’d need 4023 olympians pedaling for the entire time you were generating. But you are saying it takes one hand crank – approximately 0.1 hp*s, or 74.57 W*s of energy. But 3 weeks at 1.5 MW equals 2721600000000 W*s of energy output. You are claiming approximately 36.5 billion percent efficiency!!
Obviously your generator violates conservation of energy. Remember, you can only obtain energy from a magnetic field if you MOVE it, and harnessing that energy slows the rotor down proportionally. Please talk (and spell) like a scientist or no one will believe you.
Sorry, I just saw that he claimed 1500 W not kW. Still, the math works, you just need to drop 3 zeroes. 36.5 million percent efficiency is just as ludicrous as 36.5 billion.
I like the cut of your cloth BobbyD! Now that my friends is a logical explanation debunking qwests “story”.
I do however look forward to qwest explaining to us how he’s “ironed out” the other problems with his great new technology. (and don’t get me wrong, I’m not attacking, I truly am interested)
I think I could create a new energy source too. If I could somehow harness the power that is the fizz that comes from my carbonated soda pop each day, I might just have something I could patent too. Hey, you never know! You ever shook up a can of pop and then opened it? That’s a lot of compressed power!!
I never said a gust of wind or someones hand produces all of the power. I just said it needs kenetic energy to start it up. The magnetic fields keep it spinning for several weeks or months. ok I am done talking about it then I feel like I am talking to 3 year olds who just want to start a fight. Grow up . go read all of the threads. And all of the nonsense on post on #89 has nothing to do with our model. I built a small model that powered 5 lamps for 3 mo using the system we set up. I also know for a fact if we made a larger version it would power a house or hospital. I never explained how the whole thing works I just gave you enough information to give you an idea on how it works. Joe I am trying to have a real discution here and these guys are breaking every rule you have about attacking someone. I thought you all would be excited to hear someone is actualy trying to come up with a working solution to many problems. I think I will send a letter to some publishers and tell abouot the horible people that come on this site and exagerate attack users and how people should avoid this site. I am going to stop coming here and sharing anything else further with all of you jerks.
LOL!!! You’re too funny qwest. C’mon, can’t you feel the love?? If you would seriously take a minute and stand back and read what you write, you would laugh too. Seriously, you’re a funny guy!
By the way….I thought you were a journalist / photographer? Nobody is attacking you so relax. Just a little harmless ribbing. It’s just that myself and obviously others think we would take you more seriously if you actually knew how to spell. Go back and read everything you wrote about this topic. You’re telling us people have been killed for making this (super secret) technology, then you said you yourself invented it but somebody else patented it and then you tell us you cant say anything about it because evil corporate suits will come kill you in your sleep. Seriously bro! (you should write for John Grisham or James Patterson)
You do spin a good tale I give you that! Sounds like a Hollywood Blockbuster!
btw…..your comment on # 87 said your “machine will spin for several weeks from 1 spin from a persons hands”…..
NUTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The next question is this: Will your machine work in a black box vacuum after the “hand crank” with no outside influence? You say the energy comes from “the magnetic fields” but you must have a moving magnetic field to generate a flow of electrons, and for every electron you move, the movement will slow down accordingly. So, which moving magnetic fields provide the energy, sir, and why doesn’t the machine slow down while powering your light bulbs?
Proper spelling and grammar will gain you a lot of respect. Calling real math and engineering “nonsense” just shows your own ineptitude. And, yes, I am a jerk, but I’m ok with that.
“I am very afraid to go public with it. Many people have been killed or just flat out disapear for creating such a thing. I try to keep it on the down low.”
Reminds me of Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson. Sounds like you need to finish school, move off campus, out of Pocatello, and get on with your discoveries and inventions. If they are so incredibly dangerous, you ought to walk on down the federal courthouse and talk to the US Marshals about the Witness Protection Program… Geez……I appreciate new viewpoints and newbies, but this has gone too far. It’s ludicrous. Yes, keep it on the “down low” please.
Hey everyone, don’t leave or quit posting just because the new kids on the playground play some weird games. Let’s stay on, continue conversations and threads, and ignore the wacky posts. It’s tough I know, but I am going to try and exercise restraint myself in commenting. I don’t see losing a good site such as this by quitting the game. Come on everyone, stick it out!
Excellent comments both Reader and BobbyD. I have always appreciated Bobby’s knowledge and intelligence from his past comments and is something Qwest should strive for instead of talking wild nonsense. (albeit entertaining at times)
And Reader makes a very good point by urging others to look past the sometimes “lunacy” of the site and stick around for the good stuff. Believe it or not we have had some incredible discussions on this site. We just seem to be in bit of a slump at the moment. Somebody mentioned a new topic in the chatbox this morning and I think that’s exactly what we need to kickstart this baby and get her rolling again. Any suggestions? I’d be willing to write something up if I could get some good topics to choose from.
I have never heard a non polite person over the phone from int mountain gas co. and they are helpful too.