Three Steps to End Our War on Drugs
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I am surprised nobody has yet written an article at IdahoFallz.com about America’s decades-old War on Drugs. I read many comments where site users express their desire to read and discuss the Drug War. I personally waited to write about it because people who bring up the topic tend to be quickly smeared as “another drug user” and their subsequent thoughts get dismissed. Hopefully I can still be taken seriously after publishing 419 other articles on a wide range of civic, government, and social issues.
I foresee that if America’s War on Drugs ever does end, it would happen in three steps or stages. The first step would be to legalize agricultural hemp production. The second step would be to legalize marijuana production, sale, and use. The third step would be to legalize all other drugs, including meth, cocaine, heroine, etc. Some will call these three steps a slippery slope, and I cannot fault that viewpoint. These three steps are clearly stages of an overall agenda, but the question is if you think the agenda is intended to weaken or improve America? Let’s discuss these steps one at a time, and when you comment please refer to what you think of each distinct step, or if you think there are other stages I’ve overlooked.
I think the first step America needs to take is decriminalizing hemp for agricultural purposes. Hemp is closely related but distinctly different from marijuana. You cannot get high from smoking hemp, but Congress has confused the issue and outlawed hemp. Why is legalizing hemp important for America? I think hemp is important because it brings us to the table of science, discussing and realizing there is a difference from marijuana, and that we can enjoy the benefits of one without endorsing the other. I’m sure many folks will discuss the virtues of hemp, but to start I encourage you to read the Wikipedia page about hemp.
I can foresee America easily waking up to the distinction between hemp and marijuana, and that first step would be an easy baby step for us. The second and third steps are the doozies, which would require a huge leap that I’m not sure America is capable of right now. The second step involves recognizing that marijuana is much more like alcohol than cocaine or meth. The third step involves deciding whether we want to spend money and energy on punishing drug use or treating drug use.
Regarding the second step, I’m just trying to kick start this discussion so I won’t go into all the details of marijuana, such as what’s supposed to be good or bad about it. I will encourage you to read the Wikipedia page on marijuana/cannabis, and I encourage folks to share their knowledge and experience with marijuana vs. alcohol in our society. What do you think?
The third step would certainly have to occur after the first two, because America must be willing to challenge the government’s propaganda about hemp and marijuana for the past decades. The third step is a much bigger leap of faith, and requires shifting our priorities. I don’t think we need to give up our values, or our principles for the third step to occur. I think our principles are that we want our folks to better themselves, and we all believe drugs get in the way. Our priorities to enforce these values, however, have been focused on prohibition, punishment, and penalizing users. We treat drug use as a criminal problem, and I think we can treat it more honestly and effectively as a medical and mental problem.
I was fortunate to visit Europe a couple times during high school. My brother and I once walked through a Frankfurt downtown park, and he pointed out the large group of drug users in a seating area. While we walked several hundred feet away from this area because my brother said the users could get sketchy, an ambulance came screaming onto the scene. The ambulance drove right into the middle of the drug user group and loaded up someone collapsed on the ground.
While we walked and looked over our shoulder at the ambulance, a young woman with a decimated body staggered up to us with a needle in her hand, crying and pleading to my brother in German. I did not understand what she said, but my brother was clearly alarmed and shouted at her “Nine, nine!” while he told me to pick up the pace. When we were away from her, he said she was begging him to hold her arm still so she could inject her drug syringe, that she was too shaky and had no strength to do it herself. I was fairly shocked because you do not usually see this kind of thing in Idaho’s public parks. I think that experience of seeing the effects of actual drug use had much more impact on me than any silly “Just Say No” or “D.A.R.E.” marketing campaign ever did. This experience has led me to believe that legalizing all drugs would have a better effect on discouraging drug use than what we currently do.
What do you think?
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Comments
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0 I agree with your distinctions. Drugs are bad, but some people may be able to use them without directly impacting society (other than possibly needing medical treatment which we may have to pay for). If or when they commit crimes while under the influence, or drug related, that becomes a criminal issue which I believe should be prosecuted.
I think it won’t be so easy to get our citizens to go for #1. There are lobbyists who represent the industries who are in direct competition with hemp, and I’ve seen studies that suggest those industries are partially responsible for the abject fear our society has for marijuana.
So #2 won’t be an easy sell, either. However, we had a hard time with prohibition and we learned our lesson from that far sooner (but there wasn’t the direct competition issue again as I mentioned for step #1).
Step 3 will be the hardest sell of all, because lots of us know someone whose life has been destroyed by usage of these types of drugs. It just doesn’t feel right to say it’s okay, now, which is essentially what legalizing them will do.
You already know I agree with your post. I think if people would look at the resources we spend to have a war on drugs, from the laws made to the laws enforced to the crowded courtrooms and teh prisons and jails overflowing and no room there to get sex offenders off the streets because we got Johnny doing time for growing his own pot, well…hey. It starts to make a little more sense to legalize and regulate as we do alcohol and tobacco.
I can’t believe I feel compelled to say this, but I do. I DO NOT USE DRUGS, including alcohol and tobacco. However, I did try most of the common drugs on a limited basis in my 20s. I consider myself lucky because they just weren’t interesting to me.
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0 0 You wanted comments about marijuana in our society. I knew a man who had pretty bad seizures from an injury he sustained as a teenager. He smoked marijuana as a way to calm himself down so he was not so likely to have these seizures.
It was cheaper to smoke pot than it was to find a way to pay for regular medical tests and treatment plus monthly anti-seizure prescriptions (he was a cook by trade and never had health insurance).
I also believe he was addicted to the pot, and I think the fact that it was illegal caused him some amount of grief as he was caught doing this.
However, I can’t determine the amount of damage it created in his life because he also had other issues and so it wasn’t very cut and dried what the effect of that usage was.
But legalizing it would have helped him a great deal.
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0 0 Doh! There you go, step 2 is actually legalizing medical marijuana at the federal level, with say step 2.5 legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes and controlled like alcohol.
I can’t believe that hemp is still illegal. It is amazing to think the protectionist industry lobbies which keep hemp illegal, when it can be used for so many products. Hemp could help diversify and strengthen our economy. There is a video out there about Kentucky farmers lobbying to grow hemp because they want to strengthen their agricultural industry. These are not pot heads at all.
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0 0 I belive that marijuana would do little,to no harm if legalized.
Getting High is a BASIC human drive,..just like seeking shelter,eating,sex,etc,…better that kids smoke a little weed than doing meth,crack,..sniffing glue,or gasoline!
KIDS WANNA GET HIGH,..AND THEY ALWAYS WILL NO MATTER WHAT! GIVE THEM A LITTLE WEED,.it makes them happy with out totally messing them up! BETTER THAN OVERDOSING AND DYING ON VODKA! Quarters anyone??
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0 0 I believe america is waking up,..slowly to de-criminalizing marijuana,..and MEDICINAL marijuana. As for me,..Im moving back home to California.
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0 0 “KIDS WANNA GET HIGH,..AND THEY ALWAYS WILL NO MATTER WHAT! GIVE THEM A LITTLE WEED,.it makes them happy with out totally messing them up!”
Excellent, let’s give people all the dope they want and put them on an island. It could be like ‘Survivor’ on drugs. It would be really nice to see how these folks do on drugs and all the problems they create for themselves and their island mates. Different prizes along the way can be had such as your own personal grow of ganja weed-columbian gold, or perhaps you can get your own personalized snorting straw for cocaine, maybe even your own portable meth lab and all the chemicals needed to have a great time and relax.
So, if I get this right, because some people can tolerate a little weed use makes it okay to just make it legal for others….some who can’t handle it so well? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I am going on vacation so have fund pontificating on the social blessing of drug use!!!!
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0 0 Oh thank you Joe Vandal. This is one of my favorite topics of discussion.
Nemesis is right - lobbyists will probably have their way forever on the topic of hemp. I agree that hemp should be legalized - I have not seen one sane argument against its legalization.
As someone with an active spiritual faith, my conscience tells me that legalizing marijuana is not the right choice. My experience also tells me the same thing (many IFz participants probably have a similar story):
My brother started smoking marijuana at the age of 14. By 16, he was doing meth. Danny posted that he believes that “Getting High is a BASIC human drive.” I disagree completely. I’m almost 30 and have had no desire whatsoever to get high. What I do believe however, is that marijuana can and does lead to wanting the next level of high. Talk to recovering addicts - they will tell you that weed was okay for a while, but eventually became pointless; the high was gone. That’s what happened to my brother and happens to people all around the world.
In the United States, our people and our government have chosen to stand up for certain things. Just as the Netherlands has chosen to take a stance that small amounts of marijuana are legal, the US has chosen to prohibit it. If this is upsetting to you, either try and stir conversation and change (like Joe Vandal) or move to the Netherlands.
At this point, statistics (npr.ogr; gallup.com) say anywhere from from 64% to 70% of Americans are against legalizing marijuana. We also know that more than half of these same people have tried the drug. And they still don’t want it legalized.
Jail time vs. rehabilitation is another story.
That is where I agree that we are wasting money. Sending people to jail for marijuana use seems like a waste of time in most cases. Trying to change their lifestyle and get to the root of the problem is where the focus should be.
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0 0 Well….we’ve discussed this topic numerous times even though it’s never had it’s own post. Like religion, politics and global warming, this issue is also one that people feel strongly about and no matter what one person may say, someone else having the opposite view will only shoot you down and it only ends up in one big argument.
I’ll have to think about this one and write later. We usually end up going around in circles on posts like this one.
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0 0 I agree with 007; this almost borders on religion to an extent (at least the marijuana question contains some “moral” issue).
But the harder stuff? Boy, I had a dear friend commit suicide last year . . . diehard cocaine addict; way too much money and time and what a waste of an absolutely beautiful human being. No amount of rehab nor interventions (there were several) nor the love of a darling daughter could affect the decisions my friend made. Cocaine was firmly in the driver’s seat and led to a terrible tragedy.
Everyone I know did some sort of “drug” back in college. . . now I wish I could go back and warn everyone not to be so stupid.
So obviously I can’t be objective. But I would like my friend’s story to serve as a cautionary tale.
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0 0 I think addictions are a medical problem that we are treating criminally.
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0 0 I agree with Joe’s statement 100%.
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0 0 Great comments. I don’t agree with the “kids wanna get high” comment because I didn’t have any interest in getting high as a teenager, not in the least. I had very little even as an adult.
I do not see marijuana as a gateway drug in the sense that once you try it you naturally have to go on to harder drugs.
Instead, I see it as the first step in a natural process. The people who have a predisposition to use drugs in the first place, start with the drugs that are easier to obtain and cheaper to purchase. Marijuana fits that bill. Then, they do go on to other things because they’re still chasing that feeling that they were looking for the first time they decided to get ‘high’.
It’s such an incendiary topic, very emotional for some people. Thanks again, Joe, for taking this on.
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0 0 I think Marijuana is no different from drinking or smoking cigaretes. Marijuana is harmless we are not talking about cocaine and meth the devils drugs. but just like in the past there are the people who never smoked marijuana and they catagorize marijuana with meth and cocaine.
the #7 comment about puting them on an island high on marijuana would be funny because the contestants would be lazy and laugh alot lol they would probaly want chips and burrito’s.
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0 0 Good point quest….their going to need a Taco Bell on that island! 
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0 0 Well, I have had a hiatus on this list for weeks. It all started with some people stating that METH was OK to investigate. I won’t go there now.
I’m back to recommend that all participants on this list do their research on HEMP. Hemp production is very good. In fact, it could be one of the best cultivated plants on the planet. Not for food, of course, but for so many other beneficial uses.
Here are the two WIKI sites to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp_for_Victory
One of my first real jobs in life was a “rodman” on a survey crew.
We had to go “run line” out in the book docks. I was a snot-nosed teenager. Now, I am a snot-nosed Baby Boomer. Anyway, several times we got out in to “Hemp Land” in Northern Indiana. You can’t even believe the extent of the hemp plants left over from WWII.
Of course, it has no chemical properties that can get you high–but it’s illegal as hell. The “county mounties,” as we called Sheriff’s Deputies there, would come by and regale our survey crew with stories of all the idiots from the steel mill cities and Chicago who would come out and harvest truckloads of hemp plants. Of course, they would get busted and their stuff confiscated and huge amounts of money extracted from their wallets–all for a plant that the gubmint TOLD farmers to produce as PATRIOTS in WWII! See for yourself. Pretty hilarious. I’d bet there were some hemp producers here on the SRP (Snake River Plain)–probably not far from Japanese Internment Camps like Minidoka. How ironic would that be?
This whole ridiculous gig smacks of some Monte Python/Woody Allen satire–except it’s sadly too terribly true. Who could write such a ridiculous fiction novel such as the true story of this bleak saga of collective denial about this beneficial benign plant?
Geeze, will we EVER learn?
Cheers, Monte
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0 0 Welcome back, Monte. I am sorry that some comments (including mine) bothered you so much that you needed to take a hiatus. I am glad that you felt compelled to rejoin us, and I hope you understand that while we all have very strong opinions it seems on the whole that most of us are pretty decent folks who just disagree.
That hemp story sounds like a hoot and a holler, I’m from Kentucky and I remember booby-trapped tracts of land where this stuff grew (but who knows if it was pot or hemp, as I wasn’t smoking it) and all the drama around it.
Reminds me of the one-stoplight towns where the primary source of income was the out-of-towners who were “caught” speeding or running the light and paid the exorbitant tickets to get out of jail and back on the road to civilization.
Again, welcome back!
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0 0 mtnview redicare.
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0 0 First of all - there is no war drugs. A war on drugs was some buzz phraze concocted years ago in an attempt to give credibilty to something that the government knew they could never succeed.
Harken to the days of prohibition. When alcohol was illegal, everything was forced underground and the branch of government that enforced alcohol laws expanded.
Same is true with the “war on drugs.” The only thing that is accomplished is the growth and expansion of government. Specifically, the DEA, Customs, FBI, military branches, state investigation bureaus, state police, sheriff’s departments, police departments, etc.
So-called drug seizures that take everything from the drugs to all the property involved (houses, cars, cash and stash), mean big bucks for these agencies. They use and sell for cash what is seized. Great you say - they are fight the war on drugs. Well, look at the results. Would you say progress has been made? Absolutely not. More drugs are out there. No diminished use or supply.
How about the “Just Say No” campaign in the schools. That is a bogus PR campaign that some cop invented to make money. Look closely and you will find the “Just Say No” advertising campaign is a franchised deal, in which money has to be spent to “buy” the advertising rights to use the slogan. If is feels good, do it - right? Parents, teachers, principals, etc., buy into this b.s.
Upshot here is that drugs need to be legalized, just as alcohol was after Prohibition. Let people guide their own destiny. Freedom!
Enough said.
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0 0 Good comment #19 Realist. I like the way you think!
Now if we could just get more people to open their eyes and stop flushing our tax dollars down the toilet on a war that can’t be won, we might see some progress. But I doubt it….that would be too easy. Plus the politicians would have to admit defeat, and we all know they hate to do that. They’d rather put our country further into debt for another 30 years, than admit something they thought of wasn’t working.
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0 0 BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION ALERT for 007!!!!!!!
How about this: How about all the self-absorbed drug users looking to feel good, escape, or just drop out pull their head out and stop using this crap that is funding criminal organizations in Columbia, Mexico, Afghanistan and other places? Wouldn’t that just end the war on drugs? Or would that be too selfish to ask people to stop imbibing and start living life without artificial stimulants and depressants?
Nah, guess not. Stupid idea….sorry I mentioned it.
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0 0 Fight basic human instinct or artificial government declarations, which do you think is easier? Mike thinks fighting basic human motivation is easier?
Legalize drugs and you eliminate the black market criminal drug trade overnight.
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0 0 Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. Literally! So what you’re saying is it’s ok to have SOME drugs, and artificial stimulants, but not others? What about cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine and all that refined sugar that’s in so much of the foods we eat? Shouldn’t we ban those as well? Oh that’s right….THOSE drugs are legal so it’s ok. Well guess what…..refined sugar is killing alot more people today than pot is. How many deaths have you heard about from people smoking the wacky tobacky? Not too many I can assure you. Now, how many people have died from heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc. because of refined sugar?
What’s it going to take for you to acknowlege that this “war” is not working? Get rid of the black market and you’ll cut your crime and drug related deaths in half within the first year.
*******Blown out of proportion alert for Mike*******
Or we can continue flushing millions down the drain each year, all the while picking and choosing which drugs are ok. Have a Coke and a smile right?
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0 0 Right on brother. Pass the coke and the extra sugar.
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0 0 LOL! You guys are too much!
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0 0 I agree with the black market aspect. The drug trade/black market exists because drugs are illegal. If we legalize drugs then manufacturers will market those drugs as mainstream products. Boom, the corner drug dealers are out of the drug business instantly.
We can regulate drugs just like hard alcohol, as in only selling them at state-licensed dispensaries, or in bars with liquor licenses.
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0 0 I think that the lawyers and other people employed by or involved in the judicial and correction systems are making more profit from the drug war than the drug traffickers are. It’s no wonder they want that gravy train to keep on coming.
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1 0 The incarceration rate of this nation is six time the median among all nations and the gap is growing. In less than 3 decades we have gone from 40,000 to 500,000 incarcerations for drug law violations. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?_r=1&ei=5088&en=359cc0d79ee0ace2&ex=1366603200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
Instead of being the land of the free and the home of the brave, we have become the land of the jailed and the home of the meek. Many of us watch with glee when some poor sap has his door smashed in and is wrestled to the ground and arrested for smoking a joint in the confines of his home (his castle) instead of indulging in the those legal (and heavily taxed) drugs, i.e., alcohol, tobacco and a whole host of expensive prescription medications.
Any herb you can grow in your windowsill or garden (cannabis) is going to be pretty hard to tax — as well it should be. It would be like trying to tax the very air we breathe. The Nazis who instigated and enforce this prohibition should be the ones on trial here not the users of this benign herb. We are not so much a nation of lawbreakers as we are freedom loving Americans who understand that prohibitions — like the one on pot and hemp — make a lot of the wrong people very wealthy, whether they be the sellers, lawyers or the execs at the helm of the burgeoning prison industry.
Legalize, yes. Tax, no. Let’s get those parasites who perpetuate this prohibition (for their own gain) off our backs.
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1 0 Wow! Now there’s a name from IFz’s “heydey”. Good to see you back posting again Meso…..and a good post at that! Thanks for your input.
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0 0 I also think Idaho needs to get with the times and stop controlling the flow of liquor. Idaho is one of only 16 states left in this country that still controls the sale & distribution of liquor. Why is that? Because this states government knows there’s big money to be made and they don’t want “Mom & Pop” taking a piece of their pie. And don’t even get me started on the 1AM law….that’s another crock!
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0 0 Re: Comment #26
We already have legalized drug business….it’s call prescription pain pills and the business couldn’t be better. Especially now that one can order over the Internet at Canadian and Mexican pharmacies.
We can certainly see how that is working out. The rise of Hydrocodone abuse at Idaho Falls High School is serious business. Ask Resource Officer Dennis Shaw. Oxycontin abuse is also on the rise by all types of folks. Here is the best part….even though it is legal…..people are paying $30-40 bucks for an Oxycontin pill…..can you imagine….and what’s better is that it is just as addictive as methamphetamine is!!!!
What a great idea for all you free market capitalists out there (who normally don’t believe in markets with the big bad oil companies, for example) but when it comes to dope ya’ll are for it 100%! Keep right on truckin with that legalize drugs mantra…..but the fact is, it isn’t working for all the prescription pills being abused.
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1 0 My point exactly, Mike. There will always be a market for addictive drugs…oxycontin, hydrocodone, methadone, ritalin and any of a thousand other substances that corporations manufacture and then lobby government (FDA) for the right to distribute to the citizenry. You, like others, seem only too eager to lump a non-addictive herb like cannabis in with dangerous, addictive substances that the pharmaceutical industry has foisted on the public and all too often find their way into the black market and our kids schools.
High fructose corn syrup in many of our processed foods and drinks could be considered by some as highly addictive considering the epidemic of obesity in this country, yet I don’t hear you railing against those who manufacture and distribute that type of product that is having such a deleterious effect on our population.
A naturally growing herb like marijuana cannot be patented and can only be profitable to those who can benefit from the insane and costly war being waged against it. Several states have opted to decriminalize it and allow for it’s use in the treatment of specific medical conditions that no manufactured substances can equal for it’s effectiveness. Other states are relaxing the penalties for possession of small amounts for personal use. The insane penalties one faces when caught using pot in states like our own do far more harm to the individual using it than a wheelbarrow full of the stuff could do by smoking it all.
It’s too bad William F. Buckley had to sail his boat out to international waters so as not to break U.S. laws when he lit up a doobie. Free men in a free society don’t need big brother jailing them for something as innocuous as lighting up a peace pipe with friends when they feel the urge. The people I have known that prefer pot to booze are mostly creative, hard working and interesting folks who simply prefer that high as opposed to the effects of the stronger substance…alcohol. So, Mike, the next time you feel the necessity to get vocal about pot users, at least don’t do it with a martini glass in your hand…please.
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0 0 I don’t drink martini’s. I drink Dr. Pepper.
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0 1 Sorry, forgot to log on:
I don’t drink martini’s. I drink Dr. Pepper.
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0 0 Hope the high fructose corn syrup in Dr. Pepper hasn’t made you a participant in the obesity epidemic.
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0 0 No, I take Dexatrim to keep my slim figure. I have all the angles covered.
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0 0 I agree with Meso regarding the marijuana issue. I don’t smoke pot anymore, but I used to and I’ve known (and still know) many many people over the years, also from all walks of life (everyone from Drs & lawyers, to mechanics & small business owners) that also prefer it over alcohol. It never drove them to harder drugs or ruined their lives. As for the “addictive” properties, I just don’t see it, nor did I get addicted to it. I didn’t have a hard time giving it up. I just stopped one day for no particular reason about 10 years ago. Of course I’ve been to a few parties since then were a joint was passed around and I “partook”, but it didn’t grab ahold of me and make me want to continue smoking it. I didn’t have any withdrawls and I didn’t replace the feeling with an alternate drug or substance. (although I do like the occasional latte’ or cappiccino) As a matter of fact it’s one of the least addictive “drugs” there is….especially compared to caffeine, sugar, alcohol & tobbacco…(which we all know is highly addictive). So while decriminalizing all drugs may be a touchy subject and a difficult thing to do in reality, I DO think marijuana should be the first thing that should be legalized. There’s a common misconception that pot smokers are lazy and don’t get off the couch unless their going to get a bag of chips. Like I said….that’s a common misconception. I’ve known many talented and creative people that have and still do smoke it. As well as athletes who use it to help them relax. So while there are drug addicts out there who are shooting up smack and snorting meth as well as smoking pot….there are also those people who consume it just as one would consume a cocktail with friends during happy hour or a couple beers after a long hard day at the office. It’s actually much safer than alcohol in many ways.
And the great thing about it is, it’s all natural!
(puff puff give…dont mess up the rotation!)
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0 0 Amen to post #11 Joe’s comment! I am undecided on what to do about the drug problems we face. Although I can’t stand the smell of Marijuana and never even tried hard drugs, I believe that marijuana has a less damaging effect than alcohol. It is afterall, non-addictive and I think (?could be wrong?) less of a mental impairment. I also agree with those who commented on prescription drugs. I have seen so many people addicted to hydrocodone and several to the oxy’s. And they can get real ugly when they want that fix. Children are finding that they can raid mom and dad’s medicine cabinet and sell the stuff to other kids at school. People go from doctor to doctor in this town complaining of any ache or pain that will give them the opiate of choice and some turn around and sell it later.
But as Joe stated, addiction is not a problem that should be handled in the judicial system. These people are in dire need of serious rehab so that they can lead productive lives.
I was appalled by some of the comments regarding Rayce Reinfliesh (sp?) on this site and I hope and pray his family never hears about or sees them. I never knew the guy, but he was running scared. I suspect he was so addicted that as with most, they will do anything to get and keep that fix. And all too often, if they can’t, suicide or the streets are the next step, or in his case, a bad run in with the law.
One thing we all need to understand is that, he could have been one of our own children. Where would you want that child to wind up? In prison? Dead? Or in intensive rehab?
I don’t know the answer as to whether or not to legalize drugs, I only know that something needs to be done, and soon. All the comments here won’t help unless someone is willing to take some initiative to change the laws though.
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0 0 Amen to all this discussion, it’s cathartic and some may even learn a thing or two if they choose (myself included).
What I’ve noticed is that some have their drug of choice and they’re okay with it being legal (whether tobacco or pot or caffeine or high fructose corn syrup) but when it comes to someone else’s drug, “hey, that’s not my bag and I’m opposed to it, and here’s why…”
It’s interesting, but as Abby pointed out in #38, it’s not much help in the long run unless someone bothers to take action. And you don’t see me doing anything more than blowing hot air (and not smoke of any type!) about it, so I’m guilty of just complaining about status quo without getting out there and being politically active on the subject.
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0 0 There is another site which has bloggers up in arms and ready to take on DEA agents in opened, armed revolt over the prohibition of cannabis. http://www.hollywoodriot.com/2008/04/25/zoinks-the-pot-vending-machine-has-been-stolen-by-the-feds/#comment-162
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0 0 Mike, do you honestly believe this “not even once” campaign isn’t propaganda? Sure there are those wacked out tweekers that have let it take over their lives and they end up neglecting their children and whatever. But the same can be said with real bad alcoholics. These ads they show on tv constantly are completely unrealistic. I’m not saying this stuff is a “good thing”, but lets be realistic when talking to the general public about it. It doesn’t rot away your teeth like it shows and it doesnt scab up your whole body like it shows either. These ads remind me of those old films they used to show us in middle school back in the early 70’s. They were all propaganda made soley to scare people into thinking their lives will be completely ruined, when it fact maybe 10% (if that) of people will actually end up like that. Studies have shown there are more people addicted to alcohol and prescription drugs than anything else out there.
People going to this “forum” think their being told the truth, when it reality their having the wool pulled over their eyes because the majority of what their being told leans completely towards the super extreme, and not the norm.
All this is, is an update on the “just say no” campaign that failed miserably in the 80’s and 90’s.
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0 0 It does rot your teeth and scab up your skin with continued use. Additionally, meth harms the blood chemistry and it’s use does permanently kill off brain cells that do not regenerate. I saw it for several decades in the field dealing with these type of folks in various states. Why don’t you goto the forums and judge what is being said instead of making it all out to be some “…old films they used to show us in middle school back in the early 70’s. They were all propaganda made soley to scare people into thinking their lives will be completely ruined, when it fact maybe 10% (if that) of people will actually end up like that.”
Why don’t you go over and visit Jack Gaskill at the ARA House in Idaho Falls and ask for his view point? Jack pretty liberal and not out to scare anyone…..but he will tell you what he has dealt with and observed over the years without a PR firm behind him.
Not everyone that espouses anti-drug views is wrong. It’s not about a law enforcement war on drugs issue. It is about reinforcing community values and the need to know what to look for and how to best respond. Meth is not like pot. Meth is not like alcohol either. Get on google and check out the ingredients used in cooking meth “hot” and “cold” methods. I invite you to learn about the drug and not be so non-chalant about it’s potential for abuse, criminality, and death.
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0 0 007–here is some light reading for you on meth mouth which you seem to think doesn’t exist:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003036593_methmouth03m.html
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=28160
These stories are from Washington and Oregon respectively back in 2005 and 2006 respectively.
The next article is from a meth education project out of South Dakota and references information from Reuters Health Information in 2003.
http://www.mappsd.org/Meth%20Mouth.htm
The next ad is from the Billings Gazette and talks not only about teeth, but about the skin problems meth causes:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/08/24/build/local/50-meth-tics.inc
This isn’t just scare mongers in Idaho saying this. Numerous private organizations, government agencies, public health agencies, doctors, dentists, and other are all seeing the same things. SO, either they are all wrong and you are right…..or, well you know where I am heading. My point here is don’t be so hellbent to condemn what people are doing to combat meth use. Really, go see Jack at ARA. He is a good guy and can tell you more than you probably wanted to know. This is exactly why the forums are powerful events that can help educate people before they start.
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0 0 Here is a link of slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2124160/
This explores the lack of evidence of “meth mouth” simply from using meth; rather, it is usually the abject neglect that causes bad teeth in users……….
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0 0 I know two men who regularly used meth in their early adult years (back in the 80s and early 90s).
Both of them had to have their teeth pulled and both had dentures before they were 35. Don’t know if they had great hygiene, I just know they each thought it was from meth use.
Both of them were losing their hair (that’s another sign that I haven’t seen advertised, but to these guys it was “common knowledge” back then).
Only one of them had the sores, but he was a long term diabetic, and we kind of expected it for that reason.
Both of them were really good men, but the meth made them really good junkies, and lifelong addicts, even during the times they were clean they were wanting to use, and never far from the next fix except through sheer willpower, which often failed them.
The diabetic has been in a nursing home for the last 5 years and the other one has been in and out of jail for using (no violent crimes, the cops think he’s a nice guy) and is currently in a halfway house.
On a political level I’m for legalizing street drugs because I don’t agree with the “war” on drugs. But I have known some sorrow in my life due to all kinds of drugs. My mom died of lung cancer (smoked tobacco for 45 years) at an early age. My friend’s mom died of liver cirrhosis from being a long term alcoholic. Another had migraines and got addicted to the pain meds she was given.
So it’s not just the illegal drugs that cause us problems in our society. And not everyone who uses ends up being a junkie, or in trouble with the law. But, I also agree that meth is not in the same league with pot, by a long shot.
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0 0 I went to the Forum last night and took my pre-teen. Due to the long wait he initially thought that it would be boring. After all, we arrived at about 25 minutes after 6 and it did not start until 7. We did not leave out seats for fear of not being able to attend. After we arrived, there were only a handfull of people allowed into the Forum. There were so many people that they had to hold a second Forum (which was not scheduled) as they did as well on Tuesday. I even heard people ask the ushers if this would be a monthly or yearly event, which I think could be useful for many.
The Forum was very powerful and when it was starting I looked around and could see the reactions of most of the audiance (including my child who has just graduated from the DARE program). They not only had looks of concern but alos looks of compassion on thier faces. I think that the most sceptical would sway from thier opinion (even if only slightly) if they were to attend, but I guess that is only if they went with an open mind and paid attention.
I have the seen the effects of Meth on personal level and feel that it is the modern form of the Devil. My sister-in-law is currently in prison, lost all of her teeth, received vaniers(i think that is what they are called) on your dime (about $10,000.00 of dental work) and still jones for the drug. While many debate if Meth causes people to loose their teeth, I can attest that it does have a direct effect. Even if the poisons are not the cause, the person is so interested on getting that next high that Personal Hygiene is out the window. Just the same as most who smoke marijuana report the feeling of hunger and the feeling of peace, those who use Meth in any of its forms start to think less and less of personal hygeine and become very irritable. Sure there are those exceptions to the rule, but they are just that, EXCEPTIONS.
I would recommend attending the Forum for anyone that has children, is a supervisor at their jobs or just has an interest in this modern form of the Devil. Once you attend then (I feel) you have to right to judge whether this is just a scare tactic, but until then I challenge you to attend (for educational reasons).
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0 0 Alcohol and tobacco have killed far more people, by several orders of magnitude, than marijuana. Yet these two drugs continue to be legal. Marijuana is a 100 percent natural substance and does relatively little damage to the body when used in moderation. How many people have overdosed on pot? None. Back in the 1970’s, when people in general had a little more common sense, pot smoking was looked upon about the same way as violating the 55 mph speed limit. It was basically a minor citation and small fine IF the cops actually did anything at all, which they usually didn’t. We did not have the manufactured “War On Drugs”. And civilization as we know it did NOT come to and end.
Legalizing marijuana AT LEAST for medical use would have several highly beneficial effects:
1. Chemo patients seeking relief would no longer be criminals.
2. Illegal foreign trafficking in marijuana be reduced or even come to an end almost overnight.
3. Taxing and regulating marijuana would create a massive tax infusion that our government sorely needs.
4. Industrial hemp would be legalized at the same time (or should be) thus creating another major agricultural industry putting many fincancially strapped farmers back to work.
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0 0 Thanks Babs for your link. I too have known numerous people in the early 80’s and 90’s who used meth almost every weekend. They held down jobs and only partied on the weekends. NONE of them lost their teeth or got all scabbed over like they show you in these ad campaigns. Out of the dozens of people I knew, only a couple got hooked really bad on it. But thats like anything else in life, cigarettes, alcohol, pain meds, and the list goes on and on. The fact is, I don’t need to go talk to anyone about its effects, I’ve seen it first hand. I’m not saying it doesn’t have a dramatic effect on some people, but more often than not, its not nearly as bad as these ad campaigns make it out to be. Like I said, I knew dozens of people of the course of over a decade that used it moderately and none of them lost teeth, got scabby skin or ruined their lives.
The fact is this is a scare campaign aimed at scaring the youth of this nation, just like the scare campaigns of the 70’s. Whether you want to believe it or not, not everybody has an addictive personality and not everybody that try’s a drug, whether it be alcohol, prescription meds or meth is going to get hooked. It’s just BS plain and simple!
Look at the campaign for what it is. They show you a girl saying “I’m just gonna try it once”, and then after she try’s it once, she’s sleeping with a dealer for meth and and scabbed over. It’s complete and utter nonsense and propaganda. It just doesn’t happen like that.
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0 0 Maybe I misinterpreted the ad, but I thought it was in elapsed times. The girl is shown at various stages of her dependency, always using the same excuse, always comparing herself to someone else who is in a worse drug-dependent condition than she is. The viewer sees it for what it is, but she no longer does. She is continuing to use meth between those ’snapshots’ of time we see her at.
Harder to find humor in some things of life.
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0 0 One thing I find interesting: the meth scare tactics seem aimed at young girls who (gasp!) won’t be PRETTY anymore if they use meth! Interesting standpoint.
I am one of those who believe that some people have addictive personalities….be it food, alcohol, meth, cocaine–a certain percentage of any human demographic will seek out and engage in this type of addictive behavior . . . yes, they can modify their behavior: BUT only if they truly want to and have the inner strength to do so.
Opium has been around since time began, ruined many lives and still continues to lure those so inclined to heroin use and painkiller addiction.
The reason I thus find fault with the “scare tactics” is that if you are truly an addict, you will rationalize your way out of anything. No ad, no well-intentioned forum is going to help. Some people experiment with drugs in college and walk away when they grow up a bit; some people are unable to do so because of their underlying addictive nature. Some “addicts” channel their cravings into other less harmful avenues.
I would do anything possible to help someone with an addiction problem (I lost a dear friend to drug use two years ago) but I don’t think trying to “scare” them will ever work. I know first-hand that it doesn’t.
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0 0 My interpretion is that they are trying to keep people from starting, not trying to get those who have already started to stop. I really am for keeping kids off of drugs at all, even pot. its my opinion that anything that alters your state of mind by ingesting, smoking etc is not good for you physically or mentally. Just my opinion though.
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0 0 I agree with the intent, justme, you make a good point; I wonder, though, if these “scare tactics” sometimes make drugs (sex, whatever it is to be “scared” away from) the “forbidden fruit” and thus appealing in a dangerous way…like the troublemaking boy everyone liked in high school.
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0 0 Tell me something “justme”……do you drink pop, coffee, tea? Do you eat only organic unprocessed food, or do you and your kids eat cereal, frozen foods, fast foods and hundreds of other “processed” foods that contain processed sugars and numerous other ingredients that are bad for us? Do you take asprin, tylenol, cough syrups, cold medicines? All of these things and many others “alter” your state of mind. Or is it just drugs the media has told you is bad that you stay away from? What about natural herbs, plants etc? Pot is natural, so is peyote, psychedelic mushrooms, and a hundred other types of plants that can both cure common ailments and get you high as well. Do you or your family wear anti-persperient? Anti persperient has aluminum in it which has been shown to cause Alzsheimers and breast cancer, so that’s bad for you too. There are a thousand and one different things out there that can harm, hurt and otherwise alter your body and state of mind. Just because they arent a part of the major 5 “illegal drugs”, doesn’t mean squat.
Lets not fool ourselves into thinking that just because you and others choose not to indulge in recreational drugs, that you’re not harming your body in a multitude of other ways.
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0 0 Vote:
0 0 BOP Alert****************************
Dope party at 007’s house!!! BYOB (Bongs that is….no meth allowed…just pot).
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0 0 In his book, “Botany of Desire”, Michael Pollan quotes Andrew Weil, who describes marijuana as an “active placebo.” Weil contends that cannabis does not itself create but merely triggers the mental state we identify as “being high.”
The only part of the brain that does not contain receptors for cannabinoids is the brain stem, which regulates involuntary functions like circulation and respiration, consequently no one ever died from an overdose of pot.
Pot mimics the brain’s own endogenous cannabinoid, anandamide, who’s direct effects are pain relief, loss of short-term memory, sedation, and mild cognitive impairment. Cannabinoid receptors are found in a woman’s uterus and may not only dull the pain of childbirth but help women forget about it later. Anandamide is responsible for helping us forget those things that are unimportant to our daily activities such as the color of the waitress’ dress we saw at breakfast or what you had for lunch a month ago.
Carl Sagan credited his experiences with pot with “devastating insights” about the nature of life. “There is a myth about such highs,” Sagan wrote; “the user has an illusion of great insight, but it does not survive scrutiny in the morning. I am convinced that this is an error, and that the devastating insights achieved while high are real insights; the main problem is putting these insights in a form acceptable to the quite different self that we are when we’re down the next day.” Other scientists including Stephen J. Gould and Richard Feynman found pot to be useful when focusing on a task at hand apparently because it had the ability to “weed out” the superfluous background noise of mundane interruptions.
Mike can whine all he wants to about this benign herb but for those of us who have had our own “devastating insights” while high, all I can say is…Don’t knock something you know so very little about.
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0 0 My problem with many anti drug / alcohol campaigns is that they are dishonest and kids aren’t stupid. I remember as a teen being bombarded with all kinds of messages about how kids who use alcohol will ruin their lives, flunk out of school, get pregnant, etc, etc. And I listened to those messages but finally one day around the age of 17 I did succumb and I got drunk at a party. And I had a blast, it was the most fun I’d ever had at party. Nothing bad happened, my grades stayed at their 4.0 level, no one got hurt, it was a great experience. So I drank at the next party and again nothing bad happened. So what do you think I quickly determined about all those messages.
Now its the same thing with drugs. I know many a productive marijuana user who hold good jobs and whose lives are going just fine. I drink alcohol still to this day, only once a month or so, and my life goes on just fine. I know some functional alcoholics who are doing just fine.
Of course I also have seen many lives destroyed by drugs and alcohol. I’m not suggesting at all that it doesn’t happen. In hindsight I realize I was very lucky to have never been arrested for DUI as a teen or get in a bad car wreck. I’m merely saying that the prevention campaigns are dishonest when they paint a black and white picture and imply that something WILL happen to you if you try something “even once.” If kids try it and if they don’t have a bad experience or they see some not have a bad experience they will immediately dismiss everything else as lies.
BTW, I don’t defend meth use at all. I think it truly is destructive. But I also know people who have used meth a few times and not had bad things happen. It could have happened but its not the all or nothing picture the anti drug campaigns paint.
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0 0 Excellent post Anonymous. That’s all I was trying to say as well. This whole “not even once” BS is a crock and people that have had “real world” experience with it know first hand. It’s those people that have no clue, other than what some officer with a campaign tells him or show’s him a few people that did happen to hit rock bottom, they think that happens to everyone and thats just not the case. In all reality it really only happens to a very few. But of course people would rather believe some bogus campaign than people that actually “know”.
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1 0 2 questions 1. what is a BOP alert 2′ what is wrong with emptying the jails and prisons by using [time served] for pot only crimes? start over. #3 where’s 007 reside? ;]
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0 0 007 is in jail and is not up for early release right now. Besides he has a nice hemp rug he is making in solitary confinement. He gets internet rec one hour each day.
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0 0 LOL bundy….good one!
“BOP Alert” stands for “Blown Out of Proportion”. We started using BOP alerts when some posters (who shall remain anonymous) tend to over exagerrate their views or opinions on a topic.
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0 0 Bundy, is he your cellmate? Maybe both of you could go into business on those hemp rugs. I’ll take a 8′x4′ and send my invoice to Kimball Mason please. He’s good with handling money in prison … LOL
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0 0 Bundy, is he your cellmate? Maybe both of you could go into business on those hemp rugs. I’ll take a 8′x4′ and send my invoice to Kimball Mason please. He’s good with handling money from prison … LOL
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0 0 007-
I figured this would come up and i thought about it when i first wrote my post. However i did not address it in an attempt to keep on topic. I definately do agree with you on most of your points. I do not profess to live %100 free of altering chemicals etc. However i chose not to support or use drugs whose sole purpose is to alter ones state of mind. I also think you may have forgotten you BOP alert regarding deoderant!
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0 0 Re: 43 Thanks Mike for those links. I just showed my kids those pictures of Meth Mouth, which are pretty scary. I hope they are using images like these in school drug education.
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0 0 Too bad Mike doesn’t come around anymore. I would have loved to debate this topic with him. http://www.kidk.com/news/health/22771414.html
Gotta love those shrooms! (just on my pizza of course) 
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0 0 Big deal. So they tested it on 36 people. That is not an earth shattering test.
“Fourteen months after taking the drug, 64 percent of the volunteers said they still felt at least a moderate increase in well-being or life satisfaction, in terms of things like feeling more creative, self-confident, flexible and optimistic. And 61 percent reported at least a moderate behavior change in what they considered positive ways.”
So, lets see 36% of the folks felt a lack of well being, and 39% felt less than positive behavioral changes. Gee, that sure sounds like a winner drug to me. Y’all just go on out and put mushrooms on your pizza with The Artiste. Maybe you won’t be the 40% that didn’t do well with the hallucinogens.
PS-Do y’all think that any one of these 36 folks they tested did drugs before the “studies” or did they get some people with no drug experience to partake? Perhaps those that already dropped out and checked out were craving to get in on free shrooms? This is the problem with studies like this:
1) 36 people is not a great number
2) If you don’t have an accurate sample of the public at large and only use drugged up hippies the study is meaningless–some people like to go around in a daze and think nothing of it. Some of us prefer to actually avoid mind numbing dope. If the only people you test on are folks that have used it for years then that ain’t sayin much for the supposed benefits of shrooms.
3) I have a friend who used shrooms in 1988. He isn’t the same guy now that he was before then. We both blame it on the funky mushrooms because he never did coke or other harder drugs.
SHROOMS, like this study, isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
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0 0 Gotta love that holier than thou tone of yours….but thats ok. I’m sure you’re not as innocent as you make yourself out to be. I’m sure you’ve taken any number of precription medications, antibiotics, cough syrup, tylenol or the caffeine in your coffee or pop over the years. You don’t think those chemicals alter your mind?
The point I was trying to make is that our govt has no right to tell us we can’t utilize a plant, bush, tree, cactus or mushroom that grows wild on this earth of ours, in any way we see fit. Chemicals are one thing, natural plants are something completely different. I HAVE tried mushrooms many a time and they never affected me an a negative way. So you “know somebody” who isn’t the same guy he was before. Before what? You have no medical proof that “his condition” has anything to do with a mushroom. He did mushrooms but he’s never done anything else?? How do you know? Because he told you? A lot of people have tried harder drugs and not told their family and friends. I know I did and I never told most of my friends. Funny how it’s always the people that “know somebody” or have “seen it on tv” that think they know better than those of us that have actually experienced it firsthand.
So go on with your “I’m better than you because I’ve never touched an illegal drug in my life attitude”. There are alot more dangerous chemicals in any number of prescription drugs and over the counter medications out there, than a naturally grown plant.
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0 0 So, let’s see, because it is a naturally occuring item it makes it acceptable to use it how YOU want? What if I don’t want you using a bunch of peyote or your shrooms and drive? What if I don’t want you smoking a bunch of pot with THC and fly a plane or drive my kids bus…..or perform childcare? Maybe I don’t want you to be able to use cocaine….it comes from a naturally occuring plant too…..I guess because it’s au natural you expect a free pass…….now way Jose!
Starbucks coffee (caffiene) is a far cry from peyote or shrooms. Tylenol isn’t even in the same category as shrooms and peytote. As for the holier than thou attitude, that’s your attempt to label legitimate concern as some type of moralistic judgment of your desire to do drugs. You are correcto about making a reasonable judgment to prevent you and others from harming the community. Our society makes judgments all the time….it is called passing and enforcing a particular law that addresses behavior.
You may feel entitled to use drugs. Society feels entitled to protect itself. I understand that you don’t see it as a threat for yourself. Perhaps you feel that you can handle it, but we don’t pass laws that allow Artiste to use and some other guy who can’t handle it as well to do so. It is a clear cut expectation that does not discriminate. So, debate to change the laws if you feel so inclined, but it is a mistake to focus on supposed holier than thou arguments. People have a right to their opinion. I could easily accuse Artiste of being self-centered, narcissistic, and impulsive about wanting to use drugs. I could even make the argument that Artiste is exhibiting an even more dangerous holier than thou attitude because he/she wants license to use anything at anytime–perhaps because he/she feels they are uniquely experienced/qualified/or better than the typical drug user……that too would be a mistake. Debate it on the merits. As I said before, a study with 36 people doesn’t make the argument that shrooms are an acceptable public health risk. A shroom a day does not keep the doctor away!
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0 0 “What if I don’t want you using a bunch of peyote or your shrooms and drive? What if I don’t want you smoking a bunch of pot with THC and fly a plane or drive my kids bus”
So then you would not mind if anyone smokes in their home and does not engage in activities like driving or flying planes, right? So long as nobody is endangered, what’s the problem with anyone using drugs?
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0 0 The point I’m trying to make is there’s nothing wrong with smoking a joint or eating some shrooms in the right setting and in moderation. Anything will impair you if you overdue it. You can die from drinking too much water. You can get extremely messed up by drinking too much cough syrup or taking too many prescription medications. I’m not condoning drug use, but so many people make it out to be such a terrible thing. I haven’t smoked a joint or consumed any drugs in many years, but just like alcohol, there’s nothing wrong with it in moderation. Believe it or not you can smoke some pot without being blizted out of your mind, just like you can have a drink after a long day to relax. Moderation is the key.
You seem to think that just because I experimented with drugs in my younger years, that I still have this desire to do them, and that’s just not the case. All I’m trying to point out is that there’s nothing wrong with it in the right setting. Nobody mentioned doing cocaine and flying a plane or driving a school bus. that’s just preposterous! Just as drinking and driving is.
I’m not condoning cocaine or meth or any other chemically altered substance, but in my opinion, our government shouldn’t have the right to tell us we can smoke a joint or eat a mushroom or peyote bud when there are much worse things out there. And I’m not talking about consuming these natural plants that god put on this earth, and go to work or drive a school bus full of children. The point is, there are hundreds of prescription medications that kill people each and every year. The side effects alone are often worse than the thing their supposed to cure you of. Thousands of people die every year from eating too much. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes and many other ailments because people can’t eat “in moderation”. Did you see that movie “Super Size Me”, where that guy ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days? After that 30 days was up, this guy was a mess. There’s a similar documentary out called “Super High Me”, where a guy smokes pot for 30 days straight. I urge you to watch it and educate yourself. Just like the McDonalds movie, this guy is watched over by a doctor and a psychologist and is given numerous tests both before and after the 30 days. You’ll be amazed at the results of these tests. People put such a stigma on marijuana use and it’s just laughable because it’s just BS. And it’s often those people that have never smoked a joint in their life that seem to think they know whats best for everyone else.
Again, everything in moderation. Because there are 101 things in your house right now that can either kill you or severely impair you much worse than smoking a joint or eating a magic mushroom.
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0 0 The point I was trying to make is that there’s nothing wrong with smoking a joint or eating some shrooms in the right setting and in moderation. Anything will impair you if you overdue it. You can die from drinking too much water. You can get extremely messed up by drinking too much cough syrup or taking too many prescription medications. I’m not condoning drug use, but so many people make it out to be such a terrible thing. I haven’t smoked a joint or consumed any drugs in many years, but just like alcohol, there’s nothing wrong with it in moderation. Believe it or not you can smoke some pot without being blizted out of your mind, just like you can have a drink after a long day to relax. Moderation is the key.
You seem to think that just because I experimented with drugs in my younger years, that I still have this desire to do them, and that’s just not the case. All I’m trying to point out is that there’s nothing wrong with it in the right setting. Nobody mentioned doing cocaine and flying a plane or driving a school bus. that’s just preposterous! Just as drinking and driving is.
I’m not condoning cocaine or meth or any other chemically altered substance, but in my opinion, our government shouldn’t have the right to tell us we can smoke a joint or eat a mushroom or peyote bud when there are much worse things out there. And I’m not talking about consuming these natural plants that god put on this earth, and go to work or drive a school bus full of children. The point is, there are hundreds of prescription medications that kill people each and every year. The side effects alone are often worse than the thing their supposed to cure you of. Thousands of people die every year from eating too much. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes and many other ailments because people can’t eat “in moderation”. Did you see that movie “Super Size Me”, where that guy ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days? After that 30 days was up, this guy was a mess. There’s a similar documentary out called “Super High Me”, where a guy smokes pot for 30 days straight. I urge you to watch it and educate yourself. Just like the McDonalds movie, this guy is watched over by a doctor and a psychologist and is given numerous tests both before and after the 30 days. You’ll be amazed at the results of these tests. People put such a stigma on marijuana use and it’s just laughable because it’s just BS. And it’s often those people that have never smoked a joint in their life that seem to think they know whats best for everyone else.
Again, everything in moderation. Because there are 101 things in your house right now that can either kill you or severely impair you much worse than smoking a joint or eating a magic mushroom.
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0 0 I think both of you had valid arguments there, (that test seems a bit limited, so conclusions from it are less than sound) but I will again take Artiste one step further and say that all recreational drugs should be legalized, whether they are natural or not.
I also think our laws about driving under the influence, and various other ways we seek to protect ourselves from those who are impaired, should be enforced.
Just as with the concept of “if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns”…..to me, if recreational drugs are desired, people will find them and use them, sometimes legally, sometimes not.
I agree that lots of drugs which are legal are far worse than some of the illegal drugs. However, having broken those laws in my youth, I have no desire to do that again. And, I’m not willing to do much in the way of experimenting with some of that stuff, because I’m no longer 10 feet tall and bulletproof, as I was 25 years ago.
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0 0 Bundy, I appreciate your analytical thinking skills.
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0 0 I have to agree with Nemesis & the artist on this one. There are thousands of “legal prescription drugs” on the market (as well as over the counter) that kill people and impair their abilities every day. What’s the difference? Of course the main difference is one is legal and the other is not. But alcohol & tobacco kill far more people than pot (or any other “natural plant”) ever did or ever will for that matter. (and by natural plant, I don’t mean cocaine so please don’t twist my words into something I didn’t say) In my opinion, the war on drugs is one that will never be won. It’s a waste of taxpayers money and I think a different approach needs to be taken. Legalize it, tax it and you get rid your corner drug dealers and that will cut down on a tremendous amount of crime. I think some people believe that if it’s legalized, our society will run rampant with drug abuse and personally I don’t think that would happen. Sure, I’ve partaken of the herb “back in the day”, but if it was legalized that wouldn’t make me go out and buy it or start consuming it or any other substance now. I do believe the comment artist was making regarding “everything in moderation”. One of the biggest killers today is over-eating. He’s correct in stating obesity, heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed over the past 20 years. And it’s all because people can’t eat in moderation.
I think this issue is a touchy subject for many and there are pros and cons on both sides of the coin. And it’s just like politics, religion & global warming, you’re just not going to persuade the other side no matter how many studies or pros you throw at them. I also think most people are afraid of change and I think that’s what holds this country back regarding a lot of different issue facing us today.
Good discussion though.
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0 0 If we accept the “everything in moderation” argument , we must acknowledge it does not fit all substances or human behaviors. Do not forget that many substances are addictive such as morphine, ambien, meth, and oxycotin. Many drugs can’t be done in moderation. Many persons that use them have addictive personalities to begin with. This creates an indefensable dilema. You can’t have different sets of laws for people to follow. Laws apply to everyone equally and have to in order to be enforceable and accepted.
As for moderation itself, what if we held this same view in the field of moderate use of alcohol….gee officer, I just had 2 beers. If your body weight is 2 beers and you weigh 120 lbs you are probably going to be drunk. Yet, if you weigh 220 lbs, and have 2 beers, it probably is not going to effect you as much to the point of intoxication. How about we have moderate use of abortion, or perhaps moderate use of capital punishment…..the point is, moderation is not a logical, constitutional, or acceptable public policy choice.
Arguments for acceptance of moderate use are fraught with problems from the starting gate. It either needs to be all or nothing. You can’t discriminate in this area. The rights and privileges at stake are too important to be left up to some subjective analysis down the road that is apt to fail and put individuals at risk, or for that matter leave it to be interpreted by some government bureaucrat who could care less about the freedoms at stake.
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0 0 Actually I weigh as much as any two of you put together and 2 beers will knock me off my feet…so moderation is different by tolerance for almost anything.
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0 0 “Arguments for acceptance of moderate use are fraught with problems from the starting gate. It either needs to be all or nothing.”
Sure, because it is a strictly black and white world we live in, ehh?
Try to see the shades of gray in our real world. Then try to see the hues of color in our real world. You will see issues go much deeper and broader than the black and white world you see.
For instance, what about medical use of marijuana? Supposedly medical marijuana is the best thing for many ailments, but that would fall into the “black” part of your view?
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0 0 I know! When he made that comment I about laughed myself right off my chair. Like people that have a glass of wine with dinner or go out for a drink with friends only drink until their fall down drunk. Or when people go out to eat or even eat at home they don’t stop eating until their about to burst. Or people only drink coffee until the’re going into convulsions over all the caffeine. As a matter of fact, one of the news stations had a story about all those super high caffienated beverages like Red Bull, Amped, Rock Star, etc. There have been numerous deaths across the country caused by these “energy drinks”. But no, that’s ok because “its legal”.
I agree with the poster who mentioned “everything in moderation”. It’s absolutely true. All I will say is that I know from experience and you can take that anyway you like because I could care less what others think. I know from personal experience. It’s not all or nothing and it is possible to use any of those substances listed in moderation. As a matter of fact, that’s the ONLY way to use them. Like anything else in this world, some people do have addictive personalities or can’t control themselves. That by no way means EVERYONE is that way. But some here would have you believe that. Some of you can keep believing all the propaganda you hear, and what you’ve been hearing since the early 70’s, that’s your choice. I’ll just sit back and have a good chuckle about it because I know better.
And for the record, nobody is talking about driving, working or whatever wasted. It’s about doing what you want in the privacy of your own home.
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0 0 In comment #74, comparing consumption of alcoholic beverages to abortion and capital punishment was somewhat apples-to-oranges, IMO, but I do agree with certain laws having to apply equally to all to be enforceable and fair.
In Bundy’s ‘all or nothing’ comment that Guest and Guest_House (Comments #76 & #77) found so notable and amusing, respectively, that statement can be interpreted differently depending on whether you are applying it to the use of a legal or an illegal activity/substance.
If you want to apply it to an illegal substance used for a legitimate purpose, I believe it does then have a law that allows it to be legally prescribed as such, and again, in moderation. (Please correct me if I’m wrong.)
I see no reason to publicly ridicule another poster with exaggerations of their comments. While Bundy acknowledges (and I do also) that some people do certain activities to an extreme, such as drinking, eating, exercising, whatever, at times, it is their business to do so; it does not necessarily mean they are being ‘judged’ by others, and it doesn’t mean I don’t overdo it myself at times; it’s merely an acknowledgement that it happens. (Even you, Guest_House, said so in #77.) 
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0 0 I guess Guest and Guest House were just ridiculing me in MODERATION. If they had really opened the flood gates it would have been terribly awful.
I will reiterate so that the peanut gallery can get it through their thick skull or perhaps the cloud of marijuana smoke or bouts of hallucinations that public policy choices must be applied fairly to all persons. You can’t let one group of “mature and responsible” drug users get away with smoking pot in or out of their homes and bust some moron dope fiend for smoking it in or out of his home.
If people want to advocate for medical marijuana, go right ahead. If enough people agree with them, it will become enacted into law. If not, move to California and hope the feds don’t catch you!!! However, simply disagreeing with the analysis that moderate drug use is acceptable shouldn’t make room for ridicule. Persuade myself and other like minded folks that it can be done safely in or out of the home and it can be taken seriously. However, IMO, this is a tough sell. What people do behind the curtains of their homes does follow them out into society. I don’t want my kids bus driver smoking a joint in his own home before he drives my kids to school the next day. I don’t want my cab driver to be doing a line of cocaine in his own home and driving me to the airport hours later. It is not as simple as legislating acceptable drug use—because there really isn’t such a thing—no matter how much posters want us all to believe “they” can handle it, the debate is much more about how to shape public policy for all Americans not just a couple of recreational drug users on Idahofallz.com.
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0 0 You really have no clue what happens in the real world do you? (That statment isn’t meant to ridicule, put down or otherwise bait, just my opinion)
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1 0 When two worlds collide… what should be and what is.
Comment #73, by CR67: “…I think this issue is a touchy subject for many and there are pros and cons on both sides of the coin. And it’s just like politics, religion & global warming, you’re just not going to persuade the other side…“. Until we have the wisdom of our Creator (those of us who believe in Him,) it isn’t going to be solved here.
Again, personal references (such as peanut gallery…thick skulls) are unnecessary and detract from a reasoned discussion. Please refer to rules #4 & #5.
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1 0 Odd subject to wrap your arms around.
I agree with the hemp bit - drill it to the paper companies.
I agree with the weed bit - legalize and tax. Sell a pack (20 joints) for $5 taxed at 250% before it hits shelves ($17.50) plus 6% sales tax and you go from a negative income rate off of those buying weed on the street and the resulting court costs to a net gain of $13.55 per pack for state/federal government. People will pay $18.55 a pack for this crap, seeing as an ounce will cost them over $100 on the street. Marijuana related drug crime will come almost to a halt, and the jails/prisons will be holding less people with BS charges and holding more real criminals. Place the same legislation on marijuana production and resale that is placed on tobacco production and resale. Win/win situation if you ask me.
I completely disagree with the rest of it.
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0 0 but but but i like drugs =D
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I also want to express my viewpoint that there should still be a distinction between the medical problem of drug use itself, and the criminal problem of what drug users do when under the influence of drugs. This is like how it is okay to drink, but not okay to drive drunk.
We can let someone hurt themselves with whatever drug, but when they potentially hurt others by driving under the influence or committing robbery, those are criminal acts that absolutely deserve criminal punishments.