What kind of sex scandals merit leadership changes?
If you're new here, you may want to subscribe to the newsletter or RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!
Today news broke of New York Governor Eliot Spitzer being investigated in connection with an international prostitution ring. Rumors are circulating if Governor Spitzer will or should resign his office. Do you think Spitzer should resign his office? Do you think he should be forced out of office? Does anyone know if New York or Idaho have impeachment or recall election processes for our governors?
Objectively, Spitzer has harmed himself and his family more than anything, correct? True, he committed a crime, and I think he should be prosecuted and punished to the maximum extent of the law for that crime. However, this sounds like one of those “victimless” crimes, if you believe they exist. The level of prostitution that Spitzer engaged was of a high price, so his prostitute was not hanging around on street corners where kids saw it or other criminal activity was invited to the area. It sounds like at that level, it was an indecent contract between two consenting adults, with no harm inflicted on anyone but themselves and Spitzer’s family.
On the other hand, crimes are not excusable merely because you paid a high price for secrecy. If Spitzer is sentenced to jail or prison time for his crime, the people of New York unquestionably should get a new governor. There is no excuse to keep a politician who is serving criminal punishment.
Compare and contrast Spitzer’s situation with Idaho Senator Lewdy Larry Craig. Craig committed a crime in public where children could have been in the same room, in a manner that invited other criminal activity. Idaho Senator Larry Craig functioned essentially as a cheap prostitute in that Minnesota restroom. Craig’s crime brought intense and widespread ridicule onto his constituents from all corners of the world, whereas Spitzer’s crime brings more shame on himself than his constituents. Larry Craig is serving a year of probation punishment for his crime, and many Idahoans have expressed their desire that he quit office. However, Larry Craig continues to defy his constituents and refuses to resign, claiming he is our best representative (despite losing all his committee assignments and power).
Louisiana Senator David Vitter was clearly identified as using a prostitute because his phone number appeared on a madam’s phone record. He admitted to using the prostitution service, but stayed in office. The Senate ethics panel never investigated Vitter, in contrast to Craig who was investigated and sharply rebuked. Vitter’s crime fell outside the statute of limitations, so prosecution was not possible. Should Senator Vitter have resigned his position anyway?
What about Bill Clinton’s affair with Monica Lewinsky? The only crime was perjury and obstruction of justice for lying about the affair. Otherwise, it was actions between two consenting adults, and it harmed the families of those involved, not the public.
What about the Roman Catholic priest sex scandals? It became apparent that many of those priests were simply shuffled around to new clergy when their crimes became apparent to their leadership. It was only after the scandal exploded in the media did the Catholic leadership get tough on expelling priests. Should the Catholic church have kept their leadership intact despite the sex scandals?
What about the local Grand Teton Council leadership of the Boy Scouts of America? When the Post Register exposed at least two gay sex scandals in southeast Idaho, the GTC leadership clung to their positions. Kim Hansen finally resigned later on his own terms a year or so later. Should the GTC leadership have been changed out when the sex scandal erupted?
So what’s the score with sex scandals? When do our leaders need to change and when can they stay? Does America only have a problem with gay sex scandals, and are we more forgiving of straight sex scandals? Or is it an issue with the criminal activity involved with the sex scandals?
Is the problem straight vs. gay, or is the problem publicly-impacting crime vs. privately-impacting crime?
What do you think?
If you enjoyed this post, please consider to leave a comment or subscribe to the feed and get future articles delivered to your feed reader.
Comments
Vote:
0 
0 Found on wikipedia: Spitzer—whom, when New York Attorney General, had been named Time’s “Crusader of the Year” and had been termed by New York City tabloids “Eliot Ness”[119]—had once prosecuted two prostitution rings.[120]
He should be held to the same standard he held others to.
Vote:
0 0 Just goes to show you the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans are thrifty and look for free sex in bathrooms, Democrats pay $4,000 an hour. Even in the tawdry they hold fast to their fiscal principles.
Vote:
0 0 I think there are a couple things that make the Spitzer thing different. First of all, unlike Craig and Vitter, he was a Governor, charged with enforcing the law. Second, unlike Vitter, there’s an issue of immediacy. By the time we found out about Vitter’s prostitution situation, it had been over for 5 years and he’d made amends. In this case, we’re talking about something that happened last month.
More than that, as Idajo pointed out, Spitzer has totally destroyed his credability as a leader based on his reputation. There’s no way he can continue with any type of credability.
Vote:
0 0 Given relatively recent events, your article poses some good questions, and I appreciate your angle. That is, you didn’t just ask us whether Gov. Spitzer should step down or not; you asked us to examine what it is that makes us consider whether or not a leader should step down from their position, if a sex scandal is involved.
It seems to me that we as Americans are forgiving of crimes committed by our leaders in proportion to whether we can imagine ourselves doing them. That is, rarely is there a cry for resignation of leaders at blame in vehicular accidents, or cited for letting parking meters run out, or even those caught drunk driving. Those of us who drink have at least contemplated at one point or another driving home when we knew we ought not – and a disturbing portion have done it. Bad? Yes – terribly wreckless and dangerous to everyone involved. But still something we’re more likely to forgive and forget come election time than a sex scandal of nearly any kind.
Sex scandals are practically defined in the word “scandal” as deviance from societal norms (right or wrong, doesn’t matter) and the more deviant from our bell-curve norms an action is, the less forgiving we are of it as a society.
Given that we judge an action against what we ourselves could, would, should do, when a leader should step down is going to be ever-changing. Here and now, we know that a leader must think about the needs and wants of his or her constituents (and that those needs and wants do not always coincide). In Craig’s case, he chose not to step down because he felt (or at least expressed) that it was is duty to look out for Idaho and that he was the best person to do so given all circumstances.
Assuming Spitzer doesn’t go to jail or only serves a very short term, he may choose to stay in office for the same (given) reason and chances are high that his constituents are not going to put up a big enough fuss to begin and follow through with the recall process. He may be able to make them forget the hiccup before the next election and even be re-elected – it wouldn’t be unheard of.
I suppose, lest my rambling go on too long, that a leader should, from a Machiavellian perspective, hang in there at least long enough to see how many of his or her constituents actually care enough about what he or she did to take any action. Action, after all, speaks far louder than words and what a person says is often not what they may mean after a “good night’s rest” so to speak. If enough constituents appear to be angry enough to do something about it, then the society which that leader promised to look after has spoken and it is at that time he or she should very very strongly consider stepping down and seeking greener pastures.
Vote:
0 0 I guess I don’t have a problem with straight vs gay, or public vs private crimes. I have a problem with hypocrisy.
I’m torn. Someone who’s been an effective leader, who has a scandal revealed (and yes, usually it’s by the opposition because they have a vested interest in removing that person and putting in one of their own) of whatever type, it’s hard to want them to leave office (well, depending upon the scandal, of course) just because they’ve been revealed to be human.
But sometimes the media frenzy (let’s see, would that be the incredibly liberal media that’s creating this frenzy?? why, yes!) becomes too much for the person to be effective in their job, and then it’s pretty clear that the story is bigger than the person and the person should leave office.
Vote:
0 0 People forget that Spitzer also tried to use the New York State Police to spy on Republican Senate Majority Leader. Can you imagine that happening here? Spitzer was forced to back down in that instance last year. That reminds me of Nixon using the FBI to spy on political enemies. That lack of judgment coupled with his latest indiscretions and lack of poor judgment seems to paint a picture of a guy who can’t make good decisions. Call him effective if you want, but if these are the kind of decisions he is making that are found out about, how much is still unknown.
Sptizer also recently proposed giving drivers licenses to illegals (this is the issue Hillary first said yes, then no, then maybe so to). Obviously, this guy is out to lunch making decisions that not only are not in the public interest, but decisions that reach criminal levels. I watched Keith Olberman on MSNBC last night. He was having a real hard time criticizing Spitzer. You could see it in his face and tone. About the best he could come up with was that it was a sad situation. Remember how he lambasted Republicans Mark Foley, Larry Craig and David Vitter? He scorched them but esentially gave Spitzer a pass. So, that is the liberal media at work. The story is too big for them to ignore……but they take pains to do only what they should be doing in the first place—report the story, i.e. the facts….and leave the extra opinion out of things. I have no problem with how Olberman handled himself last night. I just wish he would be as objective when Republicans are involved. Spitzer should resign his office….and probably will once an agreement is made to avoid federal prosecution.
Vote:
0 0 I agree, the story’s not going to go away, and his effectiveness will be diminished. (Who am I talking about?)
I didn’t see Olbermann’s show last night. I can take him in small doses the same as I can Glenn Beck.
I think almost all politicians have things we can point to that tell us they are dirty or abuse their office…we wouldn’t generally approve. I’m not saying give them a pass if they’re caught, I’m saying we’d be surprised at the skeletons in our heroes’ closets.
Vote:
0 0 So why is it he hasn’t been charged yet? Is the prosecuting building their case against him and then charge him, or do you think he’ll be charged at all?
Vote:
0 0 He hasn’t been charged yet because the feds don’t usually go after Johns. The only reason he was focused on is due to his high position and concerns about public money use. I think they also either may have looked at the Governor using public monies for these trysts….if that didn’t pan out, then it is a simple quid pro quo….resign and we won’t prosecute you for the multiple acts of prostitution across state lines–which makes it a federal crime.
Based on a review of the wiretaps, they probably have more on him as well. The affidavit has very brief information on it. There is usually always more. In fact, I believe another case of solicitation came out this morning. So, once he gets assurance from the federal DA he will not be prosecuted if he resigns he will bow out.
Vote:
0 0 I neglected to add, reference the article you wrote, I disagree about the assertion that Clinton’s affair, while consensual, did not harm the nation. Undoubtedly as you pointed out, it harmed his family. His lack of impulse control and poor judgment led to many problems at home. However, due to this poor judgment, Clinton was distracted dealing with his poor choices when he should have (and could have been) focusing on Bin Laden. For example, after the USS Cole was bombed there was no American response.
If you look back at the writings of Bin Laden, he wrote that the American’s inability or unwillingness to form a response showed him that America was a paper tiger. In his own words, he noted that this emboldened him to carry out 9/11. So, the supposedly private and/or consensual actions of politicians can have dire consequences for the public they represent and lead.
Vote:
0 0 Umm, whoever you are that is commenting as Mike #11, the real Mike’s not going to like it when he finds out. 
Omigod, did you just make a very reasonable and thoughtful statement about a (gasp) liberal scandal, and not use all the usual buzzwords that conservative talk radio shows are fond of?
That comment was incredibly well written, didn’t pi** me off, and made very good points.
Which proves it can be done. We both just agreed about something, and the Yellowstone Caldera didn’t explode from the shockwaves.
Now that I’m done making fun of the whole dynamic on this site, I do have a question. Wasn’t the bombing of the aspirin factory (or whatever it was) supposed to be a response to the USS Cole? Or was that in response to the African embassy bombings?
(Nemesis shakes her fat old head in shame, having such a poor memory is one of the first signs of old liberalism…hee hee)
Vote:
0 0 Actually, Spitzer probably will be charged; it is just premature right now as the application for a warrant (the “complaint” everyone is talking about) was just made on March 5th in the SDNY: (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2253740/NY-Governor-Spitzer-Criminal-Complaint)……after the investigation is concluded, charges will no doubt be filed. He is also more than a john, as he was apparently laundering money for this operation.
I almost feel sorry for the guy, but like Clinton, you have to think about ‘hubris’, the sin of pride that brought down everyone in Greek tragedies (and in a lot of Shakespeare, as well). This mindset that one is above everything, family, law, politics, reminds me of that Tom Wolfe book, The Bonfire of the Vanities, in which the main character insists on thinking of himself as a Master of the Universe. . . until everything falls apart on him, that is.
And the wife, standing stoically by his side? Too much like Hilary for me. I would have the utmost respect for Silda (and Hilary) if they would simply be strong women and denounce the bums for their repugnant acts. I see nothing noble about standing by your man when he has strayed so very far. . .
Vote:
0 0 Here’s a good overview of the charges he will most likely face after the investigation concludes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/nyregion/11legal.html?scp=1&sq=&st=nyt
Vote:
0 0 Ah, hubris. Exactly what Nemesis was born to take down.
Vote:
0 0 Nemisis, to answer your question, the USS Cole was bombed on 8/12/00. No US response ensued.
The Kenyan and Tanzanian US Embassies were bombed on 8/7/98. Two weeks later Clinton bombed the aspirin factory as a response.
Vote:
0 0 Babs,
I’m no expert about this, but it was my understanding Spitzer’s wife is also an attorney. If that is indeed the case, she would also be aware of the laws broken.
I watched the legal shows last night. I think most interesting to me was Greta Van Susteren both with and without Susan Estridge.
Apparently, Estridge taught Spitzer and possibly his wife at Harvard Law School. Her take was interesting.
Greta was the one who surprised me the most. This very articulate attorney, who has hosted shows and examined crimes using very clever words for many years, was speechless. She said she use to have Spitzer as a guest legal commentator for her on a different network, so she was…….. (and she finally said) “MAD!!!!” She said he had it all, the very wealthy family, the rising career, perfect family etc.
The lawyers in particular mentioned how he made so much of his mark rising in politics shutting down prostitution rings.
I don’t see how Spitzer can be an effective leader after this, let alone that he broke both federal and state laws. He is going to have a hard enough time gaining the respect of his daughters.
One attorney commentator mentioned there were a few reasons Spitzer would NOT resign. Mainly, to use his position as a bargaining chip for what may be his sentence. I’m not sure I totally understand that remark, since I’m not an attorney.
I also found it interesting that on a different show, just talking politics, Karl Rove was very clear he thought Larry Craig should be out of office. He said Craig broke the law, it isn’t too much more complex than that.
The one remark Spitzer made that was too much for me was when he talked about needing to take some time to rebuild trust with his family. Hmmm, a dad of three teenage girls, thinks this will take “some time” for his daughters to deal with his actions? I think not. Lucky for him, he is wealthy and can pay for their psychotherapy.
I have to agree with you Babs, in some ways, I’d respect his wife more to toss him out the door. Especially, if she is trained as an attorney. Their family doesn’t need Spitzer’s income, rather self respect and the ability to hold their heads high knowing who broke the laws and who didn’t.
For the sake of their three teenager daughters, what is their mother teaching them?
Thanks for the information, Babs, and the various opinions of all.
Vote:
0 0 Thanks, Mike. I knew it was one or the other. I could have looked it up but I figured you already knew that one.
Do you think they didn’t act after USS Cole because the intel on that first one was so ‘off’ ?
Vote:
0 0 New York state legislators are threatening Spitzer’s impeachment if he doesn’t resign in the next two days, but the word is he may quit this Wednesday morning.
Vote:
0 0 The additional information is that the one trip was but the tip of the iceberg, he spent 20 times that amount over a period of time.
I think prostitution itself should be legalized and regulated but that’s a subject for another post.
Right now it’s illegal in NY and he blew it. I think he should go.
Vote:
0 0 We don’t have to wonder any more. With Spitzer resigning this a.m., that sums it up for his political career.
Vote:
0 0 I keep hearing Lyle Lovett, doing his cover of ??Tammy Wynette??? “After all, he’s just a man. . . stand by your man, and tell the world you love him, always be proud of him….” and picturing Silda and Hilary and the creepy wife of the “outed” New Jersey ? governor? who is making a lecture circuit out of being a wronged spouse. These are smart, strong women: I bet this wasn’t the first time these guys were caught with their, er, hand in the cookie jar.
Shame on them for setting such a poor example for their daughters.
I wonder if Spitzer came clean immediately because he was worried that his D.C. “friend” had a navy blue Gap dress, festering away in the closet, to be used as some sort of horrible “proof,” a la the Slick Willie debacle.
Leave Your Comment
Our Community's Comment Guidelines:- Please stay polite and on topic.
- Your email will never be published.
- No profanity or euphemisms for profanity.
- No personal attacks, name-calls, put-downs, or baiting other guests, races, genders, or religions.
- Express opinions, facts, logic, and reasoning; just don’t argue for argument’s sake.
- No commercial links (unless absolutely relevant to the discussion) and no religious proselytizing.
- No religious discussions (for or against). Go to http://religiondebates.blogspot.com for religious discussions.
- Use the "I" word as much as possible to demonstrate responsibility.
- Limit yourself to using one name per thread to demonstrate responsibility.
- If you think a comment is inappropriate, ask Joe to review it.
Vote:
Mr. Spitzer commited a crime and should be punished for it. What confuses me is why he didn’t go to Nevada to engage in some legal prostitution if he was so hard up?