Dramatic High Speed Chase and Shootout in Idaho Falls

Lets hope the cops weren’t rude to anyone since that seems to matter more than anything else to some on here.

In all seriousness, great job by the cops. By the way, while your story is mostly correct there are some errors about the hostage part as the SWAT team was never involved as a couple of heroic officers, who have been known to be rude on occasion, risked their own lives to end the hostage situation swiftly and safely long before a SWAT team could have been called let alone arrive. I have a direct source but I really shouldn’t say much more since its all under investigation. I’m confident from what I’ve been told though that the shooting is justified. Now I just hope none of the cops exhibited any rudeness or bruskness while dealing with the extreme life and death situation.

This is a bigger story than normal. That Daily News discussion is for smaller items, and it mentioned big stories may/will still get their own dedicated article.

One other thing, a Honda CRV is hardly a “large SUV”. Their actually quite small and those things barely go 90 mph as it is. What I don’t understand is how they could have evaded the police for so long. Why didn’t the sheriffs office pull a pit maneuver on them? That’s what their trained to do. And they certainly should have been able to outrun that small suv without any problems. Seems our law enforcement dropped the ball on this one! I think they definately need more training if something as insignifigant as a “chase” took them by such surprise.
IMO

And the armchair policing begins. . .

Let’s see…

The SWAT Team part I read on one of the local news stories.

I think the police did try some maneuvers to stop the SUV. At least one was (almost) captured on KIDK 3 video, you see the SUV turning around through that Century 21 parking lot, and the reporter said the SUV did that to avoid the cop trap that was just out of camera range.

Most of the news media did not have much information this morning, the PR was not alone. I think after the police got control of all three suspects they went into investigation mode, and have not shared much information with any media. Hopefully the IFPD/BCSO will release more information today. But that is not the local media’s fault.

The SUV looked fairly big on the KIDK video, maybe it was not a CRV?

I would wait to learn more details before we start saying what the cops should and should not have done.

For instance, we don’t know who the fugitives were, why they were running so hard, we don’t know what touched off the chase (a traffic stop or a warrant serving), and we don’t know a lot of the chase details.

I mostly wanted to put this up so local folks who were on 17th street or lived in these neighborhoods can share what little they witnessed, and together we can piece it together.

Did you see any of this happen last night? What did you see?

Good point. Plus if you plan to get in a shoot out with cops, more than likely the cops are going to shoot to kill, instead of wound. I wonder why their bringing in a 3rd department to investigate this incident? Is this standard operating procedure? If so, I’ve never heard of that.

According to KIDK:

“The officers involved in the shooting will be placed on administrative leave until the investigation is complete. The investigation that’s expected to last at least a full week.”

Clarification on the SUV: It was a Land Rover. They are bigger than a CRV, considered a mid-size like an Explorer.

There has been some discussion in the chat box today regarding the professionalism, or lack thereof, of local newscasts regarding not only this case, but in general. I agree with many points made as to the small town feel to local newscasts. Spelling and misproununcation errors seem especially common. But we are IN a small town and our news coverage is likely comparable to that in same sized cities. But I must offer kudos to one reporter who was reporting - off the cuff as the scene was unfolding on 17th Street. I believe his name was Rick Montanez and he couldn’t have been more articulate or professional. I don’t remember seeing his work before, as I seldom watch KIDK, but he was very impressive, which means he will probably be picked up by a bigger station soon. Lesson: To KPVI, KIDK, KIFI. Pay the good ones enough to keep them! (BTW, I am not related, nor have ever met this young man.)

there you go

Bonneville County Sheriff Paul Wilde just finished his press conference. Despite what he could not say because of ongoing investigations, he was very informative.

It started when a BCSO pulled over the Land Rover, recognized the driver from another county’s BOLO (be on the lookout for), and the rover took off while deputy was calling for backup.

Multiple crash scenes later and in the Sunnyside neighborhood, they crashed into a snowbank (no brick wall mentioned). All three passengers ran and female was caught first.

Original Rover driver stole the white pickup and rammed into BCSO vehicle containing his accomplice, with enough force to throw her from the vehicle!

Several officers approached the truck, one BCSO is assumed to be the one that killed the suspect though it sounds like multiple officers were firing weapons.

The third suspect did break into a home and took a woman hostage, but cops quickly invaded and swarmed him.

The only people hurt were the original rover driver (dead) and his female accomplice (from when the truck hit the car).

Amazingly nobody else appears to have been injured. As Wilde said, “it could have been a lot worse”. Three BCSO and three IFPD are on administrative leave.

The main idea is “MULTIPLE”. There were multiple crime scenes from the multiple crashes, multiple agencies responding, multiple suspects who ran to multiple locations and committed multiple more crimes, and multiple outside agencies have been called in to independently investigate this incident and ensure our folks did their job correctly.

Which of course means it will take multiple times longer until we get the full story, possibly as long as three weeks.

Crazy!

This is what was just released by the Post Register:

Bonneville County Sheriff’s officials this afternoon identified the two men and a woman who led police on a high-speed chase Wednesday night, resulting in a police shooting and hostage situation in a south Idaho Falls’ neighborhood. Rayce J. Rindfleisch, 31, was shot dead by police. After he led police on a high-speed chase that ended when he crashed into a snow bank in Victorian Village, he fled on foot, entered a home, stole a truck and ran it into a sheriff’s vehicle. He was shot to death by a Bonneville County sheriff’s deputy. Only one deputy fired shots. Three Bonneville County officers have been placed on administrative leave. The Tri-County Sheriff’s Association is investigating the police shooting. The woman’s name is Ashlee Tinno, 29. She was quickly apprehended after the first car hit the snow bank. She was in the sheriff’s vehicle rammed by Rindfleisch. She was thrown from the car and was taken to Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center. She was released from the hospital and is now in jail on a misdemeanor warrant. The other man, Darwin W. Crosland, 40, also fled the scene. He was the last one apprehended. He has been charged with second-degree kidnapping for holding a woman against her will. He also faces other charges.

What about the whold crashing through the wall thing? They even showed a wall that was demolished? Did the SUV NOT crash through the wall?
yeah…..it’s going to be awhile before ALL the facts come out on this one.

Some clarifications to some of the armchair QB’s here. I’m not at liberty to discuss discuss a lot of the other details fully.

Officer tried to use spike trips many times but Rayce always at the last minute evaded them as if he knew they were there. I’d imagine that someone earlier speculated correctly as to why.

Pit maneuvers are a California thing. Officers here are not trained in them. In addition a pit maneuver is only safe on stretches of roadway where the car being pitted won’t careen into other traffic. That clearly is not 17th street.

Comments were made about the SUV outrunning police cars. Many mistakenly think police cars are fast. Thats only true for police cars that work the state highways. Cars that work in town are usually no different than the same make / model that a citizen can buy and as such are no faster than any other car on the street. And it doesn’t sound like the SUV outran them in the first place or Rayce would have gotten away.

Actually CR67 in post #5 asked why the SUV was able to evade police for so long and why the police were not able to outrun it.

I say California thing because 9 out of 10 police pursuits you see on TV are from there because of the presence of media helicopters to film it.

And again, pit maneuvers are only used on stretches of road where no one will be put in danger by it. That means state highways / freeways. Because after being pitted the car will often careen off the road. How some of you would be howling for a policeman’s head if they had done a pit maneuver and a pedestrian had been hit, if an oncoming car had been hit, or the car had gone off road and into someone’s living room. Officers here don’t use pit maneuvers for this very reason and aren’t trained in it so they won’t be tempted. The state police might use them since freeways are the ideal place for such a maneuver since unless its bumper to bumper traffic (and they wouldn’t do it if it was) there isn’t going to be any risk to innocent life if the car goes offroad. Spike strips are much more effective. And as anyone listening to a scanner last night can tell you, Rayce would change course every time it was broadcast on a scanner that spikes were ready (pursuing officers have to know so they can evade the spikes). Its obvious by implication that he had a scanner.

I don’t know if this Land Rover had a V8, but it’s possible. The best police could do was maybe catch him, let alone get in front. Then (with the speeding up and slowing down to weave in and out of traffic and around corners), trying to out accelerate another moving vehicle ain’t gonna happen with the cars and SUV’s that officers use for routine patrol. They would have needed a fully horsed up Mustang or something equivalent to do that.

First, KUDOS to all the law enforcement officers involved! I’m glad you were all there and willing to do your duty.

Secondly, could public review of the police motor pool help the IFPD?

Third, it sounds like IFPD/BCSO worked very well together last night. Being a total outsider to both departments, I think that speaks well for both law enforcement agencies and the changes in leadership. But, I may be wrong.

I would be interested to know what those who have connections/relatives etc. at either or both departments think about the unity of effort last night? Would that have happened 1-2 years ago?
Have we seen morale and ability to focus on the jobs they were hired to do improve at IFPD in particular?

Personally, I’ve always thought IFz.Com was partially responsible for helping collect views of those who couldn’t go on the record officially about the IFPD. Yet, I believe those opinions needed to be heard.

Be it the Mayor’s former work in Law Enforcement, or the union, or a combination of IFz.Com, Mayor Fuhrman, the Union and other factors, it appears to me IFPD officers are focusing more on their jobs not the OBSTACLES to their jobs.

Finally, does anyone think this particular incident will influence the need for a new PD Center? Not that the crimes were committed at IFPD.

What I’m saying is if officers are having to handle this many investigations essentially at the same time, where do they interview everyone and do follow up interviews? Probably some are at their homes, but I think this speaks to the need for a larger IFPD headquarters and positively for a need for a new and much large crime lab.

Hopefully, someday 1-2 substations somewhere around the mall or an empty building on the west side will be built. Many cities of comparable size to Idaho Falls have small PD substations in an enclosed or strip mall. Some even take small vacated areas in grocery stores.

Would it have helped last night to have more officers based out of a substation near the mall so they could have responded as well? Or, is there an X number at which point too many officers make the job more difficult to perform? given more officers immediately in the area?

Again, great job local law enforcement. Hold your heads high and the same for your families.

As for the victim’s family, it’s hard to know the family dynamics and how the family has been coping with this criminal for years. Nonetheless, I honestly can’t imagine what it feels like to be them tonight. Probably too many emotions to process so fast.

Hopefully, there are some positive memories for the survivers (be they relatives, friends or other) as most people have at least one good quality.

Mostly, I hope people will respect the privacy of the family. They have a lot to heal from and THEY did not commit the crimes. If anyone knows family members, it would be useful info to let us know how they are doing and what they do and don’t need (like lots of phone calls or press interviews etc.).

Tonight I will add the survivors in my prayers, as they have probably suffered many years with the criminal record of the deceased. I will also remember to thank God literally, for the men and women who show up to protect us when it counts.

O4N

That’s cool to hear.

Ironically enough, Local News 8 reported on the 10:30-11pm “nightline” that Spokane police pulled a pit maneuver during a car chase and sent the car crashing through a coffee shop. I kid you not, how ironic ehh?

Our cops did a great job.

I am feeling puzzled about the local media’s coverage of Mr. Reindfleisch. Several stations were doing a back story on his life and times in high school. They showed pictures of him wrestling and how he was a good kid. There seemed to be alot of disbelief….you know, the typical shock that a commenter makes about how they just can’t believe this all happened.

In a way, I took it as the media sort of glorifying this guys life. It is disappointing that he lost his life. However, the media seemed to miss the point that this guy put alot of peoples lives in danger that night and even struck Ms. Tinno. He could have easily killed many folks that night. It is kind of like the shooters at Trolley Square, Virginia Tech, etc…the media comes and does a back story on these criminals….and in the process of reporting their story, i.e. humanizing them,they get more press than they ever deserved as result of their criminal and stupid actions. The media, like the rest of us, tries to find some reason(s) why they decided to do what they did and in doing so, I wonder if we don’t glamorize their lives so much that it leads the next person to step in and take over where they left off?……….

Ah, THERE would be a real ‘ad’ that local kids could relate to, in a hurry! This is what he started out as, this is what he ended up as, and look at the families (including his own) who are hurting now.

Local news media, where are your investigative journalists on this one? Perfect case to take from start to finish if there ever was one. Senseless death, high drama, and meth was very probably a key player.

I think people need to realize that very good people can be involved in very bad things. Rayce was my friend in high school. He was an amazing person then and underneath all the addiction, he was still that same guy 12 years later. It’s astonishing how quick people are to justify someone losing their life because they took the wrong path.

While I believe good people CAN go bad, that still doesn’t excuse their actions. It’s nobodys fault but his own that he let himself go from good guy to bad. He still knew right from wrong and decided to take the wrong path. The night this all went down he put others lives in danger and the officers did what was necessary to protect themselves as well as the community. While I don’t agree with guestInIf’s statement that the cops should have riddled him with ever bullet they had, I do believe they had no choice and did what was necessary.
Unfortunately, people like Racye don’t realize how much they hurt their family and friends when the go off the deep end like this. It’s the parents and the family members that end up dealing with the hurt and ridicule that will likely follow his family for many years to come.

I am absolutely appalled at the article glamorizing Rayce the Idaho State Journal had in yesterday’s paper. They used the word “alleged” so much I had to laugh out loud. How many other people in the daily obituaries get a huge extra write up about their funeral and how wonderful of a person they were? Next time anyone in any of our families dies, let’s demand the Journal do a piece on it. Disgusting, 2 thumbs down to the Pocatello “Urinal”.

Next they’ll be writing articles about how the college campus shooters were “really kind and gentle guys” too.
He didn’t care what he did was illegal and just plain wrong, and the number of people he sold too and hurt both physically and mentally does not warrant this type of a write up. He loved the power he thought he had over everyone around him. He believed he was the king. I can’t believe it. No disrespect to the family, but they know (I think) as well as everyone else around Blackfoot what a danger this guy was.

Anon #39, I guess if you were such a good friend, you could have somehow tried to help? Oh yeah, like the article says, he didn’t have goals or the direction he was supposed to be given. Gee, neither do thousands of other men but they don’t turn into drug dealers! Glamorizing a high school has-been wrestling career from 14 years ago is sickening compared to the real life he led for 13 years after graduation. I don’t agree anyone is the same sweet person underneath it all, I think that kind of life changes you inside and out. Maybe arms dealers are great guys too…..

Idaho State Urinal article:

Friends, family recall Rindfleisch

BY JIMMY HANCOCK jhancock@journalnet.com

BLACKFOOT — Rayce J. Rindfleisch, surrounded by many friends and family who say they knew him as a kind, gentle man, will be laid to rest today.
Rindfleisch, 31, died on Feb. 27 after allegedly leading police on a high-speed chase through the streets of Idaho Falls for about an hour. The night culminated after Rindfleisch and his two passengers fled the vehicle they were in.
Rindfleisch allegedly stole a pickup from a nearby home, driving toward officers as he tried to make his escape. One officer shot at Rindfleisch four or five times and the vehicle he was driving hit a police cruiser. Rindfleisch was pronounced dead at the scene.
On Monday, about 150 friends and family attended a memorial service at Hawker Funeral Home in Blackfoot, the city where Rindfleisch grew up. Among those in attendance was Andy Moysh, a lifetime friend of Rindfleisch’s who is also speaking at his funeral today.
“We knew each other since we were in diapers,” Moysh said. “We grew up together.”
Rindfleisch was a star athlete at Blackfoot High School who played football and wrestled. He was the state wrestling champion in 1993 for the 171-pound division. Moysh said Rindfleisch was also voted must likely to succeed when he graduated in 1994.
“He had been a successful high school athlete and aced his ACTs,” Moysh said. “He was told the sky was the limit.”
Moysh would not discuss some of the events, or causes, that led Rindfleisch’s life into a less production direction. When Rindfleisch was initially pulled over on Feb. 27 by a deputy from the Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office, that officer recognized him as a man wanted in Bingham County.
Rindfleisch was wanted on a felony warrant charging him with possession of a controlled substance, eluding an officer and driving under the influence. The notification from Bingham County warned that Rindfleisch should be considered armed and dangerous.
That’s not the man Moysh knew.
“Some things happened in his life that he didn’t get the direction he needed,” said Moysh, who currently works for the Utah Department of Corrections. “Without goals, (Rindfleisch) got sidetracked. When problems began, the support and direction he got just weren’t sufficient.”
As people lined up to pay their respects to Rindfleisch and his family, three monitors throughout the room showed photos of him at various stages of his life. They portrayed a middle-class upbringing.
“To Honor and Celebrate the Life of Rayce J. Rindfleisch,” were the words that started the presentation.

(caption under photo)
JOE KLINE/IDAHO STATE JOURNAL
Randy Rindfleisch hugs a woman attending the memorial service for his son, Rayce, at Hawker Funeral Home in Blackfoot on Monday evening.

This is INSANE!

Yep. Today’s Idaho State Journal in “letters to the editor” printed a “sad heartfelt” letter from one of Rayce’s friends about what a misunderstood poor soul he was, and how wonderful and caring and a big heart he had. Sure, where was that big caring heart and intelligence as he raced around Idaho Falls putting so many lives at risk?

I guess I’m wondering if the Journal would like to do a front page story now about the people Rayce put in danger by his high speed chase, including the poor family whose home he broke into, not to mention the police officers who put their life on the line to stop him and his friends. Do you think they’ll take the time to interview all of them? Likely not.

Perhaps a story focusing on his drug dealing, the families and marriages he help ruin and didn’t care one ounce about, the joke law enforcement was to him, etc. I still can’t believe the newspaper down south is making him out to be such a sweet hero gone bad. A lot of people, if they dared talk even now, would hotly disagree. There are a lot of other citizens out there who are truly good people who don’t get the positive media attention they are giving him.

At least the Post Register wasn’t afraid to print the facts and get to the story, without all this fluff I’m reading elsewhere.

Other posters, why are some people excused and made to be poor souls who “had a little problem”, and others not?

The most poignant fact about all of Rayce’s actions that night was that he had choices.  At any time he could have stopped and given up. The only major thing that would have happened to him that night was he would have been imprisoned for the choices he had just made, and had previously made(Warrants).  I do find it pathetic that the Idaho State “Urinal” would glorify who Rayce was, as if he was that same person that night.  You know Anon there will always be people like you who knew the criminal before he was the criminal.  However, Rayce was not the same person he was in high school or growing up.  If you believe he was, then why does he have such a lengthy criminal record?  Everyone believes that good people can go bad by the influence of drugs.  The fact is that when Rayce allowed the drug to be more important than human life, he showed the world that night who he had become, and now was.  He chose to run from the police, he chose to break into a strangers house, he chose to steal the truck, and he even chose to end his life by trying run over the police in that truck.  At anytime, and I mean anytime, he could have gave up prior to being shot.  The police could not have shot him until his actions were clear that he would cause “severe bodily harm” and a willingness to take the lives of others just so he could get away.  Bottom line was Rayce was no longer that “good, everyone looks up to guy”.  I 100 percent agree with the previous comments that this could be a seriously effective story about the reality of Meth.  A former athlete and reported good person to a forceful drug dealer/pusher.  Pretty sobering if you ask me because as it was previously stated this hits home, our home.    

ditto, Observation, excellent post! Years ago, I worked in a courtroom where we regularly handled abuse and neglect cases; there was an interesting third category, called “dependence”, defined as a parent who was unable to care for a child due to circumstances beyond their control; usually the underlying facts were a mentally-ill mom who, through no fault of her own, could simply not provide a safe place for her child; then all these “dependency” cases started popping up where mom was smoking crack (often, using the kids’ WIC coupons to buy said crack) and was thus “unable” to care for her child. I fought hard to have the definitions changed, arguing that it was that mom’s (or dad’s) choice to pick up the crack pipe; I got shot down by every judge in the building, who stated basically that mom (dad) was powerless over the drug and, through no fault of his/her own, could not provide properly for his/her child.

It still is an outrage! If a person makes a choice, as Observation noted, to engage in using drugs, and places drugs above all other factors in his life, then we can’t, as a society, say “Oh, he’s not responsible” Until we start seeking personal responsibility, this issue–drug use and its consequences–will never have a happy ending.

I am all for spending money on drug treatment; part and parcel of this treatment is instilling personal responsibility in the drug users.

I love the slogan!

I recently lost a dear friend to drugs; well, she committed suicide after losing her child to health and welfare and essentially losing her family, who had tried numerous interventions, without success and who had finally written her off as the only thing they felt they could do.

So yes, those highs were definitely not worth the terrible price the “lows” exacted. You hit it right on. Wish we could make kids see that before it even becomes a problem.

***
joe’s inserted comment here:
a couple new folks had entered some comments here, you can see others from the same folks below. as we know, the spam filter here can be harsh on new folks who comment a lot right away, so these two people had their comments retroactively spanked. i went into the holding area and selected all to recover (post back). They all appear to have made back out.
***

Why do people claim things so easily debunked as the last poster?

http://www.idcourts.us

Look up Rayce. I just did. Here is what I found.

5/29/02 Guilty of Battery (a violent offense)
5/6/02 Guilt of Battery (a violent offense)
2/2/01 Carrying a concealed weapon with a permit (not necessarily violent but one wonders why you carry weapons illegally)
12/26/99 Guilty of Resisting arrest (a violent offense)

Those are just the Idaho violent offenses. And I left out a HUGE amount criminal offenses involving drug dealing, drunk driving, theft, and other driver’s license violations. And I’ve heard he had pending charges in Utah for violent offenses but I can’t check those on the Idaho system. He also had a lot of pending charges, some of them felonies, at the time of his death.

And before anyone wonders about his clean record of violent offenses since 2002 consider that he was either in prison or jail more often than not from that point on including one 2 year stint in the state penitentiary.

This guy may have been a great kid in school but he was a scumbag drug dealer in 2008. I feel bad for his family but not for him. He made the choices he did and the world is a safer place without him today.

All you good saints out there who are preaching KILL EVERYONE WHO HAS A DRUG PROBLEM. Lets put your brother, sister, son, or daughter in the place of this person who was killed and his worst offence was possession of meth. Big talkers when your relatives are not involved in something like this.

TO Observation above,

You are still missing the point. No one even relatives would justify what Rayce did the night of his death, and he certainly made wrong decisions. But you will find out from the facts when they are out that there was no reason to kill him because he simply would not stop. Law enforcement officers simply cannot or should not react that way in that situation! You sound kind of like an law enforcement officer trying to justify the behavior of his brothren! Any relationship??

One more thing…clarification on my last post above. I meant to say DEATH SENTENCE DID NOT FIT THE CRIME. Sorry. (Several of you probably appauded that mistake)

The lady from her window could not see from her window where he was shot, as it was too far away and the angle would not permit it. Remember her mom is a cop.

Overwhelming support? There are a total of 17 different people who commented on the lawfulness and good work on the polices’ part. What a representative sample size! Once again get your facts straight. The vehicle was going slow enough to bust the window, grab and shoot the victim. Did you realize there was a clear path to go by the police?

To Joe Vandal,

Anywhere in Idaho, the same law applies. What I meant above was the officer was the judge, jury, and excecutioner by his decision to shoot. He is a rookie fresh out of the police academy and the ONLY officer to shoot while there were several others right there. If it was warranted then all of the officers would shoot. If you read the police training manual at Idaho-post.gov, you will see that under ALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES that were present at the scene, no shots should never have been fired. He was shot in the head and incapacitated and that is when the pickup and trailer went out of control and crashed. Stupid move by that officer. That is what made it a deadly weapon. That is why the training manual says to never shoot a person in a moving vehicle unless he is actually shooting at you in the first place. An officer on the other side of the vehicle or person looking out their window could have been shot between the eyes. That would be even a greater tragedy.

This could happen anywhere in the country. In fact, in larger more populated areas, it is simply against the law to even chase someone with just a bench warrant, because of innocent victims being injured by even the 15 police vehicles in the chase. Idaho will soon learn, maybe even from this incident. If the dead person would happen to be a close relative of yours, you might think differently than you are justifying that the police were justified to kill a person with a meth record as his biggest crime. You are trying to say that cops never make mistakes in the heat of the moment??

One last thing you mentioned about overwhelming support. When the details of the truth comes out, a lot of people may not feel the same as what the media mislead people to believe. I know people who know the truth in this particular incident but that is all I will say for now.

Blahblahblah: Were you there that night? How do you know there was a clear pathway to go by the police? Have you been in the house where the lady was looking out the window so that you could judge the angle? This is the first that I have heard that the girls mother is a cop? For ISP, BCSO, or IFPD? I am always amazed when people state for a fact things that they couldn’t possibly know unless they were there and witnessed everything first hand or were part of the incident themselves.

Truth and Justice: Just because he got a gun for Christmas, this makes it okay? And if he never showed any violence, why did the warrant that was out on him supposedly list him as “armed and dangerous”?

I think it was a tragic circumstance and I am extremely sorry that he had to lose his life, but like Joe asked in post #58, what should the cops have done differently? If they were out to “get” the guy, then I think we would have had 3 fatalities that night instead of 1.

I guess I should say rather than just the comments on this site, the folks of our city appear to overwhelmingly support our cops in this incident. That is just an observation of mine from living here and talking to folks and hearing what they are hearing from others also.

I would like to know where you are getting your facts, blahblahblah, because what you are saying is not at all what we who live here heard that night and the following days from folks who were eyewitnesses.

For example, I thought I heard that girl in the window say she did see the guy get shot. She said the words, “I realized I just saw him die”. The news crew shot video out her window to show her viewpoint, and it was the whole scene. Did you not see that video? Have you been in that girl’s room and seen the view yourself?

Is that girl who had the eyewitness account from her bedroom window really the daughter of a cop? Local News 8 made absolutely no mention of that if it is true. I don’t know if it changes anything, but it is something we should know.

If Rayce was “going slow enough”, how was it he hit the police cruiser with such force as to pop the girl out of the back seat “like a pea out of a pod” (as I’ve heard it described by people who were there)? So you believe Rayce was just trying to mosey along at 5 mph past all the cops there, then only when he was shot he gained enough speed to hit the patrol car within a couple dozen feet and pop the girl out? It doesn’t sound likely.

Again, where are you getting your information?

TRUTH AND JUSTICE, it sounds like you have access to information that the rest of do not? I’m not saying you are incorrect, your account seems detailed, but I don’t think anyone else has heard that information outside of the investigators. Inside track? Please share.

Anyone know when that incident report is due to be released?

“You sound kind of like a law enforcement officer trying to justify the behavior of his brethren! Any relationship??”

Ahhhh thank you, I know I’m living a balanced life when both sides accuse me of being on the other side. 8^) No, I have no cop family or friends. For full disclosure, I must admit a smidgen of empathy for law enforcement due to my military background, but that’s about it. Most cops in our town would probably describe me as more anti-police due to some articles published here. So again, thanks for the vindication!

It’s as simple as don’t shoot? It doesn’t sound like that simple of a scenario that night. Don’t you think that’s a little oversimplified?

Again, it sounds like you have access to other information that the rest of us do not. Please share it with us and help us be more informed then. Until you do, don’t be surprised and angry with our reaction that you are apologizing for Rayce’s self-destructive actions.

Joe Vandal

Stay tuned when you see all of the details of where, when, and what exactly happened. The lady in red did say her mother was a cop in her interview. You might want to take another look if interested. Lets just say that the Idaho State Police are not saying kind things about the local law enforcements handling of this including after the fact.

And stop “sock-puppeting”. I can see by your IP address you are changing your name for different comments.

Baiting? “he deserved every bullet”
“Idaho State Uninal”

rule #4?

Joe Vandal,

I am curious why you are landblasting bla for some poor choices of words when in #46 above you said about the Idaho State Journal, “Idaho State “Urinal”, I liked that comment”. Isn’t that kind of out of line especially since you must be the creater of this comment board? Just curious.

What words are you editing?

Another question, if Rayce was not guilty of anything, if he had nothing to be worried about, why did he run so hard, up to 90 mph up and down 17th street? Why did he break into a home? Why did he steal a truck to try getting away?

I’m very interesting in hearing your inside information, because what you are saying does not appear to make sense with everything else we have heard locally.

I don’t think anyone is saying that the choices he made were right. I’m saying he simply should not have been shot!

Obviously he did have something to run for…. a bench warrant for possesion of meth. But this does not warrant execution. He was definitely not a saint and made some bad choices that led him to the incident, but he was a typical victim to a typical small town probation who loves to keep people in trouble for job security. This all needs to be brought to public attention for the improvement of safety and reach out to those in need. Look into this case in particular and you will see some of the many injustices that our community has.

If you would like to ban me because I don’t agree with “he deserved every bullet that riddled him” that is your perogative, but don’t live a double standard. I am still confused what comment was offensive.

I knew something was going on with this guy when he first started earlier this evening. He was sounding too much like his alter ego Truth & Justice. There’s really no sense in wasting our time debating with somebody like this.

Sheriff Wilde already said there was only one who discharged his weapon and there were six who were dismissed and only one remains dismissed.

Do you block everyone that disagrees with you?

Well, you and your buddies have fun trying to convince anybody on this site that Rayce was anything but a drug addict that got what he deserved. Unfortunate….but true.

Where is the referee on that one?

Do drug atics deserve the death penalty?

It sure is amazing how many traffic stops that are conducted daily, weekly and monthly in this community of killer cops. Seriously, how many stops are conducted by police that result in shootings? I can’t even think of the last incident like this since say 2002 when that kidnapper was chased up near Ririe and holed up in the trees and shot at police. Police returned fire and killed the kidnapper.

Many of these posters seem to be apologists for Rayce and the choices he made. There are consequences to our actions. Some consequences become very serious when actions are taken by a fugitive. If you have ever had a vehicle barreling down on you or your partner, you would know how dangerous it can be.

As for the question if Rayce was such a big danger why did only one deputy only fire shots. There are a variety of reasons for that which could be in play: 1) The other deputies may have been trying to get out of the way of getting run over, 2) They may have not had a good angle to shoot, 3) They may not have had a good back stop to safely shoot and not injure the public or another deputy. Like so many have stated, none of us were there. It is impossible to know all the details present in this matter. What we do know is that Rayce continued down a path that escalated the situation to use of deadly force.

If cops were so trigger happy why didn’t the deputy simply shoot him at the first traffic stop? The answer is obvious. Law enforcement was totally in respond mode (and always is in these types of situations) to the actions of the fugitive/criminal. Rayce pushed the envelope and when a vehicle is used to ram or run over police, this leads to use of deadly force. Rayce was not killed for having a warrant. Deadly force was used to prevent Rayce from killing other persons. In closing, I started this post with the observation that police conduct thousands of traffic stops without having to use deadly force. This is meaningful to our discussion because it clearly points out that our local law enforcement is well trained by POST and uses deadly force very judiciously. This clearly is not what the anti-police posters would have us believe; however, as the investigation proceeds and facts are collected and released, I can maintain confidence that this matter was handled in the best possible manner by the police. Unfortunately, the criminals on the run made choices that unleashed actions no one wanted to see deployed. However, there is no way around this unless one chooses to have anarchy in the streets and daily shootings amongst the populace. Which is worse? Anarchy or Order. This community chooses the latter. Maybe some of these posters ought to goto San Fransisco where the police hug a thug….and the crime rate (and murders) is soaring.

It seems to me that this is a very one-sided converstation and those that are not in agreement that the cops did perfectly in the situation get their comments completely deleted. This seems quite fair for a place to debate a conflict. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think that Rayce was in the right by any means but I do believe that a perfect job by the police would have not ended in one dead! And in all fairness I don’t think that someones opinions should be deleted I saw nothing that could have offended someone too much unless that person is very easily offeded.

Everybody take a deep breath. We really need to wait for the outcome of the investigation to know all the details before we start ripping into each other. It will come down to one thing, did the deputy believe his life or the life of another was in danger. We just don’t know enough yet.

I just realized Truth’s and the others’ comments were back but not yours blablahblah. I’m looking…

another injustice how convenient.

Laughing, that’s true. You know what I’ve got some other work to do, I tried to help but whatever. Have fun fighting a mathematical algorithm.

I do look forward to hearing where this evidence is coming from. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it doesn’t jive with everything else we’ve heard locally. Maybe we are sheep, but prove it with your source, otherwise why should we believe you any more than the media?

And since you guys ARE new to the site, I’ll give you my point of view from somebody that’s been posting on this site for over a year and a half. Joe does not discriminate and/or erase comments if they differ from his or anybody elses. What he and others here DO like is when you post facts and how you obtained those facts. Granted, opinions are always welcome here, but when you make comments like the one you made saying our officers are “trigger happy”, well then your credibility tends to drop some. This guy was given plenty of opportunities to give himself up. And the fact that he was a great responsible member of society in high school, has nothing to do with the fact that he turned into a meth head and became somebody with no respect for himself or others. (including the officers that attempted to pull him over)

The Clear Point:

It doesn’t matter what Blahblah, Truth and Justice, are going to say because they only believe their side since Rayce obviously is their friend. Like I said two way bridge. Blahblah and Truth and Justice won’t beleive what we say because they hate cops and they think we are all related to them since we agree on the events that we have all heard.

Interesting enough none of these two screen names has ever answered the questions asked by myself and others. They just come up with the same conclusions that all cops are out to kill drug users regardless of the circumstance. So Blahblah and Truth and Justice if you feel the cop(s) were so evil that night become one. Go in there and do a better job. Go in there and make a decision in seconds so we can pick in apart in days, weeks, and months. There seems to be a lot of “they could of done this better” going on. Well if that’s what you truly think go in there and do a better job.

I would be curious to know how you do. In fact the reason why I wouldn’t want to be a cop is for that reason. I tell my buddy who is a state trooper that I don’t envy his job at all. I willing to think that if the tricounty finds the officer justified your comments will be just like they were before. Other officers’ trying to protect their brothers. However, if the civil suits, that are sure to come, find the officer not liable, I think you will still have an excuse that the officer murdered and alleged innocent man.

Why does everyone keep saying there will probably be a civil suit? What makes people think that?

I’d challenge the poster with multiple personalities to back up a few comments he made.

For instance I’d like him to cite one, just one, state law that prevents police from pursuing people for a bench warrant. I’ll tell you right now that he won’t find a single one. He may find some departments with individual policies restricting some pursuits, like the IFPD and BCSO for instance, but he won’t find a single state law. Thats because such a law would be stupid since the warrant could be for murder and certainly you would pursue that person. All pursuits have to be judged on a scale that considers what the offender is wanted for vs the risk to the public. Obviously the officers involved that night felt Rayce was worth chasing. Were they correct? I don’t know as I wasn’t there but even if they weren’t that doesn’t change the circumstances of the shooting since thats an independent issue that occurred after the pursuits were done. The officer could be found wrong in continuing the pursuit while still be justified in the shooting. Or vice versa. Or justified in both. Or unjustified in both.

I’d also challenge him to explain why we should believe anything Mr Darwin Crossland says about Rayce’s demeanor that night. Mr Crossland forced his way into a home, attacked a woman, and then held her hostage. He is hardly Mr Credibility. And Mrs Tinno is / was Rayce’s girlfriend so there is no credibility there either since she is hardly impartial.

I’d also like to know which cop the witness is supposedly a daughter to. I can’t speak for every female officer in the area but I do know a lot of them and none live in that area.

And as to the only one officer shooting. As Mike said there are many factors. Its quite possible only one officer had a good shot. Its possible that other officers would have shot except that fellow officers were in a crossfire. It is kind of ironic though that in many police shootings the complaint is that too many police fired and this time the complaint is not enough police fired.

Decided to block one side again Joe Vandal?

If you decide to post anything of mine I would just like to reference everyone to the other thread of misconduct charges part I. The same forces all these people are defending as perfect angels.

Isn’t it interesting that my friend was not allowed to make comments any more on this site because someone obviously didn’t agree with him. He is still currently blocked and can’t post his intricate knowledge of the case. What a suprise!! Talk about a cover up. You guys just stick to your hard headed beliefs becaue obviously you won’t listen to the facts of this case.

I think that this thread has gotten quiet on some points.

1. Would you really want police firing at will in your neighborhood in an attempt to catch a drug dealer? is this risk really worth it, the chance of an accident is small, yet still very real.

2. How do people know that the car was driving right at the police officer/ deadly force? This appears speculation at this pt… it seemed to me more like he was merely trying to escape rather than maim or kill.

3. It is very likely there are several versions of what happened, and that the media may have not gotten the story completely correct the first time around; it is certainly good to remain skeptical on evaluating both police conduct and media reporting, particularly where it appears people here have additional access to what is happening with the investigation.

oops, typo….I meant “pretty”, not “paretty”

Here is a test.

I don’t think it matters much to Mr. Blah and his sock puppet screen names. He or she already has their mind made up.

No Answers,

I still find it interesting that Blahblah hasn’t answered my or any other questions in the thread. All he does and his “buddies” do is put out their made up minds.

They say this site is so biased yet they continue to post threads. And most of their posts are the same “bash the cop” because they probably have records themselves.

The offer still stands Blahblah, Truth and Justice, or whatever your friends names are too. Become a police officer and do their job better. Show Idaho Falls or even Idaho State how you can do their job better.

Also regarding the firing of a gun in a residential area. I’m told officers are required to know their backstop before they shoot. No matter what way you look at it there is always dangers to shooting anywhere. For State Troopers it’s firing your gun and a bullet could hit a passing motorist in their vehicle. For County and City it’s the residential areas.

I’m sure this is going to be said to me about a shooting outside my house. If it has to happen because of a “deadly force” issue, then that’s what has to happen. Yes the possibility was there that night. But since “Rayce Friends” say the officer was a rookie (How they know this is true I would like to know); I would say he did a good job since he hit his target and nothing else. However, I’m willing to bet there has been officers fired, charged, and sued for killing someone off of their stray bullet.

John Doe,

There is a reason why there will be a civil suit. It always follows especially if the officer was found to be justified. What happens is usually the family files a civil law suit against the officer claiming the officer violated that person’s civil rights. I’d go into the rest, but I’m just giving you the nutshell version.

Observation:

Please do expand on that, I find it really interesting. I would appreciate it.

Mike:

Pot smoking buddies? Seriously, you nor I know these people. Can we please be a little more respective?

The reason I originally came on here was to get more information and also say things from my point of view. I think everyone on here is getting way off topic. I think we can all agree that Rayce made bad decisions in his lifetime. Not once has anyone denied that. (BlahBlah or Truth and Justice and all others) I think the topic at hand is whether it was a justified shooting or not. All of this namecalling, “scumbag, P.O.S., deserved every bullet” stuff is getting way out of hand.

As I said before, everybody needs to take a breath and wait for the outcome of the investigation. Then the facts will be out and we can intelligently discuss them.

You must be a physics major. Give me a break! Your last line tells me that you are full of baloney. Let the investigation speak for itself. Mr. Doe, you cannot speak for this investigation.

You state supposed facts that he wasn’t going fast because he was shot in the head. If you will recall, the witness (who was there) said he grabbed his chest where he was shot at. This little piece of information was missing (how convenient for your supposed argument). Save us all the bluster and bull.

You obviously do not know any of the physiology of the human body being shot. There are a variety of factors involved that incapacitate a subject, such as the grain of the ammo used, the type of bullet (hollow point, armor piercing, etc). It is also laughable that you noted the officer couldn’t have been such a good shot unless Rayce was going slow enough….because the officer was a rookie. That is absurd! I suppose an officer has to be on the force for 15 years or more to be a good shot? Do you see how seriously flawed your points are? It is analagous to a rubber band….your points are stretched in several different directions to achieve your belief that police over-reacted.

Think about the statement, …speed was gained after he was shot….how much ground did Rayce have to “speed up” before he hit the sheriff’s vehicle hard enough to eject Tinno? Why did the witness (who was there again) say that he gunned the truck to get out of there fast before shots were fired? If you spent time conducting accident analysis you would know that the facts of the scene support the fact the vehicle was going fast enough to cause the sheriff’s vehicle to spin and eject Tinno. This was not a 15 mile an hour encounter. It was a fast paced situation that caused a split second decision by the officer. So, don’t pretend to have the inside angle when your points don’t even make sense based on time and distance, based on weight of the vehicles involved, based on the eye witness accounts–not just police, but civilians, based on shot placement on the body, both entry and impact points, i.e. rear side entry (which also means the vehicle WAS travelling fast) and the upper body being hit.

The analysis of the scene is best left to persons that were there and the investigators coming in to verify the facts. Arm chair quaterbacks need not apply.

Thanks for bringing me back Joe.

Mike…. get your sciences correct first of all! physics knowledge has nothing to do with what the bullet will do to the body. That is pathology. Now that we are on the subject of pathology, lets talk about it. The whitness never said that shots were fired after he gunned it. I hope you at least agree he was shot before he hit the cruiser. (3 times, 30-40 yards before) Tinno was not in the car at the time (several eye whitness acounts, not YOUR VAST KNOWLEDGE) Do you know where the victim was shot? Let me inform you… through the frontal lobe of the brain. Do you know what effect that will have on a person? I will also give you a short lesson on neurology to help you with your physiology and excellent accitdent analysis skills. The frontal lobe is responsible for emotions. In stressfull situations the body naturally releases catacholamines such as norepinepherine to shut down this section of the brain for better “primitive flight” reactions. A shot directly through the frontal will not necessarily kill someone, but incapacitate their emotions and cause unconsciousness. The “flight” response in this particular situation is still working. Now with a little physiology…. you tell me if it is plausible to hit the gas after being shot through the frontal lobe? (that was the first place the victim was hit) I know the answer, I hope you can see it is a possibility too.

Now for YOUR vast knowledge of physics. (or misinformation) The police approached the vehicle, broke the window, and shot point blank through the frontal lobe. How fast could the vehicle been moving at the time? There are numerous witnesses (besides the cop’s daughter who has changed her story since the first interview)at the site who said that the vehicle was moving VERY slow, possibly stopped at the time of the shooting. Obviously the vehicle was moving at the time it hit the car, you are right about that, but Tinno was not IN the car either! (next to it on the outside) Use YOUR physics and physiology knowledge with some facts.
I would hope that you agree that a rookie cop might be a little more apprehensive in this type of situation and might not have the “best” response in this type of situation, hence “rookie mistakes”. Not one veteran out of seven fired, therefore, none of them saw it reasonable…. logical!! (the vehicle had police on both sides of the vehicle.

If you would like to talk more physiology, pathology, or even some physics let me know.

PS Talk about speaking with logic!! Lets use both logic and real facts and quit the fabrications… that won’t get you very far.

Just face the facts, the guy was a fleeing felon with no regard to anyones safety, and he was shot and killed by a policeman who is sworn to protect the public. I hope they give the young rookie with a steady hand a medal.

Observation

What questions do you have that you feel I am avoiding?

Mike

One more question about …pysics. How do you deduce that the vehicle was traveling very fast to get a “rear side” entry. That doesn’t have to do with anything to do with speed, rather the position of the officer. The reason the witness saw the victim grab his chest is because one bullet entered from the posterior aspect of the body in the T5-T6 region and exited the upper pectoral region. Therefore there would have been blood on the chest, he would have grabbed his chest and there simply is not a flaw at all.

Once again…. … I understand you are very partial to officers and feel they can’t make a mistake, but the truth is anyone can.

Guest 007
…

I find it amusing and fascinating indulging into the minds of people … and would thrive at the chance to take a human life. (no matter the circumstances)Did the victim make wrong choices? absolutely! Were the officers very apprehensive? Yes and rightfully so due to the misinformation of “armed and dangerous”. The real question is: did that officer overreact to the situation? Obviously you are very partial …, but what you have heard through the media. I am simply pointing out some facts that I know and posing another side to the situation. If you would like for me not to point that side out let me know, but I’m sure some people appreciate it and can look at it objectively.

BlahBlah: Please address the questions asked in my previous post — #63.

Why bicker about the details we don’t know? What we do know is Rayce endangered many people as he raced up and down 17th street. Thank God no one was hurt! Where was HIS respect for others? We know Rayce broke into a home and stole their truck. Again, where was his respect? What a scary memory for that family.

Blah-Doe, let’s remember the REAL and potential victims of Rayce and his actions that night. I can’t bring myself to feel one ounce of sympathy for him when he showed absolute disregard for anyone but his self.

Rayce had choices just like the rest of us. He made the wrong ones and HE put his self in a situation that ended his life. Instead of putting the blame on the cops who protect us from these types of people you should realize who’s really to blame, Rayce.

Sorry… the first shot entered on the left side of the frontal lobe and exited the right frontal lobe. Hope this helps clear some things up for you.

i find it interesting that once someone presents some information that wasn’t previously known everyone now wants to wait until the investigative analysis is released, however, before it was just fine to go and commend the shooting and condemn the victim despite the same dearth of evidence. Anybody else notice this double standard?

I understand in the case of a criminal fleeing the law the natural inclination is to side with the “good guys”. It seems well advised to realize as blahblah said that things are not always as cut and dry as they first appear.

Very well said, Casual Observer!!! I love it!!!

From what I know of the incident, which is far more than the average citizen I’d suggest that everyone wait til the official report comes out. The media got several things wrong as the media always does since they are going off limited information. So its erroneous to draw conclusions from that. And Mr …, who obviously has an inside source as do I, has an obvious bias so I’d not draw too many conclusions from him as he’s leaving out some other crucial details that don’t fit well with his assassination theory. What he’s basically done is take some of the facts and tried to paint a false picture from them. I could start spilling details as well but I’m not going to as I feel everyone should wait since you have no more reason to believe me than Mr … . Plus this is still an ongoing investigation and obviously someone on the inside is talking to Mr … about things they shouldn’t.

So it is ok for you for YOU mr anonymous to get inside information (which you obviously don’t have), but no one else should be able to get the same info? What a double standard you have!! … says he has all this “inside” information and bloating it as truth and now that there is some substantial evidence that makes perfect sense against his misconceptions he says we need to wait until the final report. Again very nice double standard!! If you have such an “inside” to information why have you just been saying what the media has been said. Is it because you look very … now that you have been shown to be very wrong in your facts? Maybe you should reconsider your “inside” source.

brother, I’ve got some edits to do here.

Please stop with the name calling in this discussion thread. I don’t like to take the time to edit them individually, so if I see more I will just IP ban that person.

There is interesting information being presented here, we are all trying to learn and be better informed about it. There is no need to stoop to name-calling if you are so positive you are right.

Mr. Joe

I hope you are referring to everyone and not just my “…” comment as I have been called multiple names (…) I totally agree, but respect demands respect. And I hope you are not singleing me out and the rules apply to everyone including your long time members.

…

Thanks mr joe

I could care less at being called names and you don’t have to go through previous threads to erase any name calling towards me. I think it would be respectful to the family (hope they never read this) to erase all the “deserved ever bullet that riddled his body”, scumbag, meth head, towards the victim. I feel these are horrible, heartless, disrespectful comments of a fellow human being that made some poor choices. I would HATE it if someone was saying that about my brother/Dad/son even if he did make some poor choices. He had an addiction which is a very common/serious problem in the US and you don’t have to go very far in this community to find someone you are close to that has an addiction problem, doesn’t merit stereotyping and name calling.

Sorry 007, I am worn out by Mr Blah reading all the comments and bickering. I say we leave it at that!

Ok sure, I hope we do learn the truth of what happened. But to say “get your facts straight” is like saying we need to go down to the library and look it up in a book. If it was so easy, we would all be happy to do it! There is nowhere anyone can go to get our facts straight on this issue right now.

Nobody with an inside track has any idea when the report will be released? Next week will make three weeks, which is about when Sheriff Wilde estimated at that news converence.

I was always taught to never put the cart before the horse or never judge until all facts are known. Good lesson.

Oh, leave the computer for 8 hours and come back to 35 comments on this one post, alone! For the love of Pete!

None of us really know what was going on, unless we were there, and no one is admitting to that. So everything we say is from other sources, some of them not so knowledgeable of the situation.

Cops make mistakes, too, but hey, ‘armed and dangerous’ is a scary thing to deal with, even for an officer.

Drug users made their first mistake when they chose to use, and then, all the compounded mistakes from that point on can make some of them very dead, in various ways. This situation was just how Rayce did it.

I knew a user fairly well. He was a wonderful man who battled an intense meth addiction of more than 25 years, and is lucky to still be alive. However, the drugs were more important to him ultimately than his friends and family, and he’s running out of folks willing to put up with him from both categories. But even in his wildest weirdo moments, he never did dumb stuff like that (he was a quiet drunk and quiet user).

If he had done those kinds of things, and gotten killed, I wonder how I’d feel? Would I be wondering if the police could have done things differently, so that he’d still be alive today?

It’s easy for those who don’t know anyone in this type of situation to side with law enforcement, especially when we have a pro-law enforcement attitude in general. But it’s probably reasonable that we understand, not everyone will approach things from that perspective.

Blahblah (or John Doe) you didn’t start off well with this site, unfairly accusing the moderator without knowing your facts about how this site is run. So having that history where we know you made some wild unfounded and unfair accusations, we may not be so quick to give credence to your other accusations that you are commenting on.

I was thinking of that also, as cops who chased Rayce all over Idaho Falls for an hour, watched him zig zag up and down 17th street three times, watched him slam through a brick wall and run, then to see him steal a truck and try driving away, you’ve gotta think, “this guy is not going to stop until someone’s dead, let’s take a shot and end this right now”

Just like in the video, they said enough is enough time to bring him down.

Blahblah,

I really don’t want to repost my questions to you for the third time. I guess you could scroll up to find out.

My opinion now is that which has been said by a few others. Wait for the investigation to finish!

Sure you can sound like you have the inside by saying exactly where the bullets hit or or statements made along that line. Bottom line if you can’t cite your sources it probably didn’t happen and is made up! Of course there will be the comment, “It’s confidential” However, if that was the case “reader” is exactly right.

One thing that does stand to reason dopers stick up for dopers and as blahblah puts it cops stick up for cops.

I still think that those who were in favor for Rayce that night should become cops themselves. Easy to judge cops yet not so easy to do their job. So those in favor of Rayce I would challenge you to become cops and show us the almighty ways on how to do police work.

Lets look at your point of view and say the cops were way out of line and Rayce was illegally and unjustifiably killed. All the Rayce supporters can say is I told you so. But what’s of more value is “I Showed you so!”

All you’ll ever be is the person you proved to be. The person who hates cops because they were in trouble with them at one point. I willing to bet if the Rayce supporters became cops their current friends would leave them, and they would be the hated ones at the end of comments like; “Since when to the cops care about the public!”

Well that’s all from me on this thread anymore. I’ll be waiting for the investigation to come out and then we’ll see what was right and wrong. Though I seriously doubt if it shows all was right the Rayce supporters would accept this.

There is a general rule that many people understand and accept. It’s real simple: Those who CONTINUALLY post on an anonymous forum AND even berate the other posters as stupid or uninformed come across as trying way too hard. Trying to hard for what? Exactly, what are they trying to do? Impress us, Impress themselves? For what? Most of us on this site certainly do banter back and forth, but there are some limits. These types usually have some issues that they need to resolve within themselves.

Geez….we all said our peace. Let the situation work it’s way out. I loved post #145 it stated it really well.

Blah and John.

Some points for you. Caliber is wrong. Number of shots wrong. Tinno out of car is wrong.

Tri County has the correct info. They will send it to the prosecutor to review. Everyone will know what they know, just be patient. This will save everyone from eating a little crow later.

What I would like to know is does the UDOC have a rule governing ethics for employees? Especially when it comes to conduct un becoming. Perhaps they should do some investigating themselves!

Don’t castigate anyone just yet. Wait for ALL THE RIGHT INFO.

Good luck!

Bravo Tired #189. I was getting sick of all this “I know what happened more than you, plus I’m a medical expert on head trauma tool!!”

Let the facts fall where they may. Anyone know when the official report is expected? Weeks, months?

By the way, I started out on this website as just questioning the officer who shot Rayce. Now that I’m finding out that a lot of you are officers (reference comment #188), I now have lost a lot of faith in you by the way you’re behaving.

These little city cops and their big egos. Incredible.

We are truly going around in infinite circles here. I’m going to try sitting this discussion out until we get access to facts, most likely that report. Save your keystrokes, nobody is getting anywhere with this.

Someone asked what this site is all about. It’s simply a discussion site for folks in Idaho Falls and surrounding areas. There are 626 other articles and almost 13,000 discussion comments on this site, on a broad range of topics important to locals. It is for folks to share opinions and wisdom and history and facts, usually in a messy fashion 8^)

I encourage you to click the “Archives” button at the top of any page and browse through some of our many other discussions. If you think an important discussion should be started here, write up a few paragraphs to get the topic started and email it to idahofallz at gmail dotcom.

Take it easy,

Burned up
… I was speaking of the situation of driving 90 mph down 17th. (the busiest street in IF) If you look at protocols across the nations for princincts there are strict regulations for chasing a drug possesion bench warrant. It is against protocol. I understand around IF it’s a pretty big opportunity for the … cops make themselves feel like they can truly be a hero, but is it worth endangering lives for that? Let the big cities (SLC, LA, etc) attest to this. Obciously my knowledge isn’t good enough for most of you …A big heavy trailer is not as mobile as a mid size SUV and with a trailer means more tires, take one and it becomes very immobile. I really hope you aren’t a patrol officer. …

To anyone that wants to knock my education
I find it really funny that you want to knock my education in this matter. I would like to extend a challenge to discredit anything I said above about the pathology of frontal lobe trauma. I could explain more, but obviously you can’t understand what I’ve already explained. If anyone on this site has more knowledge in this subject please feel free to set me straight I would really appreciate it.

Mr obvservation
That is one witness who’s mother is a cop. Do you know how many there are? Obviously not!!! She is far from the only witness who saw everything. So get off you high horse and try to learn some FACTS to this case. Everybody who really wants to learn the truth agrees already that they should wait until the report comes out. They don’t have to believe me or anyone for that matter, but at least they are smart enough to hold their comment until they know what they are talking about. Maybe you should try to do the same, … Why would I want to become a patrol officer and digress where I am already at? Makes no sense, … Why doesn’t the president become mayor? Great logic bud!!

Tired
Caliber wrong? Shots fired wrong? I don’t believe I have said anything about this. If I have pleas inform me where I am wrong so it can be noted. Second according to numerous witnesses, Tinno was out of the car. Do your research before acusations and calling someone’s knowledge, not good protocol!

…

To quote Blah: “He was shot first from the driver’s side window at very close range. The next two shots came through the back window. One bullet was lodged in the C1-C2 area and the other entered T5-T6 and exited the upper pectoral region”

Since you are using spinal references you are indicating Rayce was shot through the spine. At C1-C2 he would have been paralyzed from the neck down, and there would have been no “tensing up” as stated earlier since there could be no signal being sent to the muscle masses below that juncture, they would have been cut off. Same for the chest shot (T5-T6), no movement or tensing from the chest downward. Therefore, any speed produced by the truck had to be acquired before he was shot. It looks like he was going fast enough when shot to travel 30-40 yards and smash the rear of the cop car. That had to be a lot faster than what you think.

Everybody needs to wait for the results. If Blah has been privileged enough to get some inside info, I feel like he has abused the privilege. I think there is some context missing from his statements.

FYI,

You didn’t address the head shot that took place first. He was shot in the head first and then tensed up and while tensed up, he was shot in the spine region dink. Nice try, though. Really.

The impact of the crash was not all due to speed, remember the heavy truck and trailer on the back?

Pretty smart though. Seriously, all day we could sit here and have logical responses to your illogical questions. Keep trying, though. It’s really entertaining to get inside the cops’ heads.

By the way, I’m still anxiously awaiting an answer to my questtion:

To all the cops on here:

Why did you guys decide to become cops? I’m really curious…..

This was really funny, too.

“What I would like to know is does the UDOC have a rule governing ethics for employees? Especially when it comes to conduct un becoming. Perhaps they should do some investigating themselves!”

Do you think that I work for the UDOC? Is that what was meant by that?

I really hope the investigators handling this case are checking in. Maybe they will realize the reigns need to be tightened about the preliminary release of information (and gossip) to so many people. When the suspect’s best friends and maybe family log on and cite deep factual knowledge about every aspect of the case, more than the public is privy too, it is concerning to say the least.

I agree with FYI #199, there are some obvious abuses of inside information coming from some posters. I wonder if any of you will be faced with consequences from your posts, or if the insiders leaking information to you have considered your real motives as well as their own. I suppose if someone higher up got mad enough, they could issue Joe a warrant for your IP addresses and he would have to comply. Wouldn’t that be interesting…..

In the end, it seem most have made up their minds already from what I see in print. Joe was correct, this goes in circles. Funny how men want to continually prove to each other who is right. (no offense guys)

Frontal lobe damage does not always cause someone to tense up. Usually there is a loss of motor function, not an increase. Frontal lobe excitation can cause epileptic seizures usually from unknown etiologies. Many times surgery will be used to purposefully damage the frontal lobe in a controlled manner to reduce seizure frequencies in epileptics. A bullet in the brain does not create neuronal excitation, it causes neuronal death, which usually results in decreased brain wave function. However, a survivor of a frontal lobe gunshot may in fact have an increased chance of developing seizures as time goes by due to misfiring of neuronal synapses, caused by the resultant tissue damage.

Secondly, three shots in the time they happened do not give someone the chance to get a heavy truck and trailer enough time to get up to the speed needed for the damage caused. You claim the speed was a result of the tensing effect? How long was he tensing before the second shot? It would have had to be a lot longer than what really happened.

So the truck had to be moving pretty good before hand. Didn’t it?

We can always tell the posters who … When they start making it more about THEIR superior intellect, THEIR needs to feel important, and THEIR willingness to put others down- it begins to speak for itself.

I really want to thank the other posters on this site that haven’t allowed themselves to be bullied by Doe and Blah. We have general opinions about what happened. It certainly will be interesting to see the report come out and the conclusions drawn as a result. I think we can all keep an open mind in that regard.

A few things to consider about the picture that blahblahblah and others are painting. Obviously the family is going to know where Rayce was shot. They buried him and would have been able to see his body or talked to the funeral home and thus know where he was hit by bullets. But knowing where he was hit doesn’t tell you anything about the how or why and what happened afterwards.

Many people have this Hollywood misconception of what happens when you get shot. Because of the movies everyone thinks you get knocked backwards, your instantly stopped, etc, etc. There are documented cases of people being shot in the heart who kept on going like nothing was wrong for several minutes. Ditto with people who have been shot in head. Double Ditto with people shot in the spine. All being shot usually does to a person immediately is make them say ow and sometimes not even that as many people who have been shot don’t even realize it. Now usually within 10-20 seconds if the person was hit in a critical area the person will have the effect really hit them. Rayce apparently was hit in a critcal area but that doesn’t mean he instaneously succumbed to those wounds. As I said, it can take 10-20 seconds for everything to really hit. Plenty of time to romp on the accelerator, crash, and be seen clutching at your chest as witnesses report.

Point is that blahblahblah and others are taking a partial picture and trying to fill in the blank spots based on what they know. But really all they are doing in many cases is speculating. They could be right, they could be wrong. Thats why everyone needs to wait for the official report instead of arguing over facts that are unknown to most.

Questioning the cops and then linking the questioning to a mistake is the problem. None of us are in a position to certify the police made a mistake. All of us are in a position to question things, or even offer support. There is a major difference between being skeptical and accusing officers of misconduct. IMO, Blah and Doe have jumped from skeptical to accusatory. It is nice to see that they have taken on the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

Mr. FYI
I am so delighted you stepped up to the plate and took my challenge, though there are a number of mistakes …
#1. The frontal lobe has nothing to do with motor function!!!!
#2. Although I do make spinal references with C1…etc, that is exactly what they are….SPINAL VFERTABRAE. That is just a reference to the spinal region of entry. In order for a person to lose motor (musculature) function they have to have damage to the ventral horn of the SPINAL CORD, more specifically either the dorsolateral or ventromedial tract. Was it said that there was any damage to these areas?
#3. You make no reference to emotion. This is the main funtion of the frontal lobe. Numerous studies have demonstrated this. I explained in simple terms what happens in a high stress situation with the catacholemines and how it decreases neuronal firing in a normal response.
#4. Someone can be shot without damaging the spinal cord. If you think about the shot that went through T5-T6 region and exited the pectoral region there must have been an angle right? Therefore, not damaging those areas of the cord. In order to get complete paralysis both sides of the cord must be damaged.

Your explaination wasn’t too awfully bad with the seizures, but a little more effort is required than minor internet research to fully understand neurology.

The warrant for the IP addresses would be interesting. I think it would be very scary for some if it leaked to the public how their patrolees spoke of someone they caused to be deceased, even if it were justified. The final reports will be out soon!

No HIPAA violations here. Coroners don’t need medical training but people who perform autopsies either need medical practice experience, or pathophysiologic experience to be licensed in this state. I know of no coroner or medical examiner in this part of the state that would publicly release any info connected with this case before the investigation was complete.

Joe V.

I agree with Mike’s comment about standing up. Sure others may be closed minded and that’s their right. However, I won’t be the one who lets others tramble on them with their comments.

Well done on the editing Joe V. Now I can really wait for the investigation to become complete.

I would vote to close the thread to comments (as long as Joe posts a statement so people know why the comments are closed).

1. People who may know things from an inside perspective really shouldn’t be leaking this stuff, it’s not professional conduct, it’s incommplete, and it’s not able to be verified, so what’s the point?

2. People who have an agenda pro or con aren’t about to be swayed no matter what gets written, so it’s an endless cycle of (sometimes) emotional diatribes.

Almost a month after we closed this discussion, the investigation has been released and Rayce Rindfleisch’s shooting is reported as justified.

KIDK and Local News 8 both have reports on this:

http://www.kidk.com/news/17508224.html

http://www.localnews8.com/global/story.asp?s=8149386

The previous confusion appears cleared up. We read now that someone made the decision that they had to keep Rayce from leaving the area because of his numerous felonies committed in the previous hour. Rayce was driving the stolen truck slowing with officers surrounding the front of the truck, ordering him to stop, Rayce refused. A lieutenant specifically said they could not shoot at that point. A deputy broke the window and tried unlocking and opening the door. Rayce hit the accelerator, thus making a deadly assault on the officers and the public, so the lieutenant said at that point they were cleared to shoot. Kip Davies shot Rayce four times. The truck did then hit the police car and popped the girl out.

I am glad that Prosecutor Dane Watkins, Jr. and his deputy visited the state Attorney General’s office to go over the case and get a second opinion on not filing charges against the deputy. I think that was a smart move for credibility.

I almost didn’t want to reopen the comments here, I don’t know what more we will gain. We will probably get some folks bagging on Rayce’s actions and some folks bagging on the cops’ actions. The authorities have come out in support of the cops’ actions, and I support what they did too. If anyone wants to bag on the cops, I hope they produce some actual evidence and not just verbal assaults.

So there you go…

I agree with Joe. Ten different agencies investigated this as well as multiple prosecutors. No conspiracies, no cover ups, no out of control cops. Just one more sad story of how drugs can make destroy your life. Live and learn folks. Adieu

All good comments. This was a trajedy as it unfolded, and how it ended. Now we have the investigation that concluded that the police did not act irresponsibly in this situation.

It’s time for the healing.

Ok… I first got on this site and glanced at a few comments and then left my last comment out of respect for everyone involved. But after my last comment I went through and read all of these and I gotta say, I’m talked about a lot in here and I’m rather upset about it.

YES… I was the girl that saw the whole dang thing from my window. And YES… my mother is an officer. Why is that such a big freaking deal to every one? Who cares if my mother is a cop? We simply saw the whole thing go down. There are several officers in the area that came to speak to us after the incident who know my mother but they had no idea that she lived in this area. It isn’t a big deal! We saw this from a witnesses point of view and nothing more… and that is the way we were both treated. As witnesses. The fact that she is an officer has nothing to do with how I viewed the incident. GET OVER IT!

I did see Rayce get shot and I did see him die. I saw the windows explode and I saw where he was hit. Dang it he was 10 feet from my car and I was maybe 30 feet from him. It has scarred me! You don’t see that sh*t everyday and I will never fully recover! Gosh, and my father video tapped the whole dang thing and looked at it like it was the coolest thing in the world. Imagine living with that!

The only thing I did NOT see was the shooting officer the moment he shot. I saw him seconds later running toward the truck.

I wasn’t going to reveal my opinion about the shooting and just leave my last comment but if everyone is SOOOO freaking interested here you go.

I believe the officer was justified. I saw everything and I won’t have people telling me what I saw or what I didn’t. It’s a very sad situation and I still feel horrible about it.

Again, I watched this man die in front of me. I don’t give a flying biscuit what he did or what was going though his mind at the time. He was out to get away and in the end it ended tragically. Everyone did what they thought was right. I don’t blame anyone! How can an officer looking at this truck coming at him not think this man might be out to kill? It’s sad, I would rather Rayce have not been shot but there you go.

One thing my mother has taught me, being an officer, is that most of the people you get into drugs, do crimes, what have you, don’t want to be that way! That’s why it is called an addiction. She views everyone as a human being and doesn’t look at the bad in him or her. This is why she works, doing what she does, to try and help these poor people who get caught up in the system. It’s sad. And this is why I still feel so bad about having watched Rayce die. It was a human life!

Everyone needs to seriously grow up and look at this as a tragic situation and nothing more now. Move on and remember those involved.

Oh brother…..scarred for life? Are you kidding me? That’s going just a little overboard don’t you think? And nobody asked you to stand in front of a window while shots are being fired. I mean seriously…if your Mother is a cop, she should have told you to get away from the window or go to another room…not to stand 30 feet away looking out a window while shots are being fired.
So what we have here is “anonymous” and “the girl who saw everything”, both standing in their windows while gunfire is erupting. Not very bright in my opinion.