Most folks have probably heard of the St. Anthony/Rigby soldier Sergeant Evan Vela, who is being held in Kuwait on premeditated murder charges. He has been held since last June, and is scheduled for trial in Baghdad on February 8. He is also accused of premeditated murder, planting evidence on the bodies, obstruction of justice, and making false official statements. Vela faces the death penalty if convicted.
Two other soldiers were arrested either at the same time or under the same circumstances, but both Jorge Sandoval and Michael Hensley were acquitted of their murder charges. Sandoval was convicted of planting evidence to cover up the shootings.
Vela apparently had an initial military-appointed JAG lawyer who may not have given the best advice. The initial lawyer apparently advised Vela to plead guilty, but I was not able to find if Vela initially pled guilty and retracted later. According to their fundraising website, sergeantevanveladefensefund.org, Vela’s family later hired private lawyers who argue Vela was following orders to bait suspected Iraqi insurgents and then kill them. The bait was apparently materials that the insurgents might want to use against American forces. Vela’s lawyers tried to get the trial moved from Baghdad to Alaska in order to get more press attention.
What do you think about Sergeant Evan Vela’s case, and about how the United States Army is prosecuting this Ranger’s case? Do you think Vela is guilty or innocent, and do you think the Army is doing a good or poor job running this trial? Should the trial have been moved to Alaska?
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Gato got runned over by Marcus many moons ago. Be ye daft, 2486? 
Let's have a new poll, alright, Joe?
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I tend to think Vela was just doing his job, and merely stepped on a ranking officer’s ego along the way.
You know, given the administration’s penchant for truthiness, and the military track record, I think we’ll never really know what happened there.
I also think there’s very little a private attorney can do for him vs the might and determination of the US Army. If he’s innocent, I feel for him and his family.
What a crappy situation this country has gotten itself into.
I believe he was doing his job for the most part. BUT…I also think “planting evidence” to cover his butt show’s guilt on his part. The problem is, (like Nemisis said), we’ll never really know what happened over there as there’s always three sides to every story. There’s the Sergants story, the Military’s story, and then what really happened. I honestly believe that our military has been overstepping boundaries for quite some time over there, because they know deep down that this is a war we can not win. So they try every option available, even if it’s illegal, and then issues like this happens and the soldier ends up taking the rap.
With that being said, I also believe that we’ve go so many stressed out soldiers that have been serving in iraq without a break, and have been doing multiple tours, the stress has gotten to them and some times they just crack. I believe this happens much more than we know.
The fact is, we need to bring our men and women home. This is a losing battle and one that we will never win. We can’t expect to go into another country and change thousands of years worth of tradition and a completely different way of life. It just won’t happen.
This guy is definately in a tough spot and I feel for him. I honestly don’t think a civilian lawyer can do anything to help him regardless of where the trial is held.
The way the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ(Title 10 USC) works is this. If a unit commander (Company Commader/Battalion Commander) thinks theres been a crime committed then they call for an Art.32 Hear (Equivelant to a Grand jury), if there is sufficient evidence of a crime them the case goes to a court martial. The soldier has the choice of a military lawyer from Staff judge Advocate (JAG) OR he can hire a civillian lawyer and his own expense. Apparently the chain of command and the Art.32 hearing thought there was sufficient evidence for a court martial.
Just some facts that the local media hasn’t brought out.
1. Sgt Vela is a “Ranger” Qualified Infantryman assigned to an Infantry Unit.
2. Sgt Vela was serving as a company sniper, I’m not sure if he’s a Army trained sniper (Army Sniper School is at Ft.Benning GA.).
3. All Army Soldiers recieve training in rules of engagement/rules of war, Lawful/Unlawful orders, if they believe an order to be unlawful they have a right to disobey the order.
Many details haven’t came out about the situation, only what the family has said to the media. Myself I’m waiting to see Military Justice take its course.
It is interesting (and sad) to see a developing theme of sympathy for Vela……. and bashing the US Military and the War in Iraq as a side thought. This is the same liberal mentality of supposed care and concern for the same soldiers that they bash as terrorists, baby killers, and rapists of Iraqi civilians.
The New York Times just ran a piece on 121 killings committed by soldiers returned home. The Times used this lone statistic to frame an argument that all the military folks over there were so traumatized and made to kill that they had problems when they returned home. What they failed to point out is that the 121 killings paled in comparison to the amount of killings committed by youths that had no military service whatsoever. It is quite an irresponsible leap to frame participants in the military as blood thirsty killers. Yet, that is exactly what the Times attempted to do.
They tried to have it both ways: They wanted to take pot shots at the military establishment as a bunch of rogues and killers….all the while couching the criticism out of an ‘innocent’ concern for the soldiers returning home who were scarred.
What the Times and some posters on this site fail to realize is you can’t have it both ways. One can criticize military policy in Iraq….just don’t try to feint sympathy for brave men and women serving over there when the real disdain for the military and it’s objectives is what the Times really means to impart.
Using the sacrifice and sympathy story to cover one’s real hostility to the military and the Bush Administration is a low blow…..even for left-wingers! This reminds me of those nut jobs from a Kansas Church that hang out at military funerals with signs proclaiming that God killed the soldier for the ‘purported homosexual sins’ of some in the United States. In their single minded world, they use the death of a fallen soldier to advance their political gains and objectives. I don’t think many of us agree with their line of logic….why then is it acceptable for other people to use the military in a similar manner?
“…One can criticize military policy in Iraq….just don’t try to feint sympathy for brave men and women serving over there…”
I’m confused, you think it is impossible to separate opinions on administration policy from opinions about our soldiers? I for one do not see it all as one black and white issue. I can separate the soldiers from the administration policy. But since we already have another discussion thread about the war…
What about Sergeant Evan Vela’s case? I appreciate your comments Lisa, I did not know those specifics.
I’m concerned because military justice can be political as much as civilian justice.
Joe…Like I said I haven’t heard anything except what the family has said but theres always two sides to every story. I don’t theink justice from the UCMJ is any different our local courts. My husband is U.S. Army (Ret). He’s been involved in Art.32 hearings and Court Martials. A Court martial can be infront of a Military Judge or a panel of peers just like civil court. He’s also been through Ranger School, SF (Special Forces) Selection, Army Sniper School, Target Aquisition School (SF Sniper School), Purple Heart awarded for action in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq (Desert Storm), Somalia and Panama.
If you don’t think 4 & 5 tours of duty to that hell hole they call Iraq can scare a young man of 18-22 y/o, than you don’t personally know too many soldiers do you Mike? I’ve had friends and relatives come back from serving 2 and 3 tours and they’ve been so completely messed up in the head I don’t even recognize them anymore! Lets not even talk about the wounds received on the outside! And I won’t even bring up the problems and issues they have to face once they return home. The lack of medical and pyschological care (let alone the lack of financial care) our soldiers are receiving when they get home is horrendous. Yet you want to keep on “fighting the good fight”. You want to continue trying to convert an entire country to democracy who will not be converted no matter what!
There is nothing we can do that will win us this war. There is nothing we can do that will change these peoples minds so they’ll like us, so they’ll agree with us, so they’ll live like us. They hate Americans and they always have. And they’ll continue killing us one by one as long as we’re occupying their country. Just as WE would do if THEY were occupying OUR country.
We could argue all day about “converting” a country….we could also argue about friends that have returned from serving in Iraq and their feelings about their personal experiences. My point is this: It is disingenuous to say you support the military and question the war effort. In WWII the military didn’t have the distractions from public scrutiny of a war effort that they knew very little about. Thousands of American Soldiers died at the Casarene Pass in Italy in a matter of days…the war effort was seriously in jeopardy. The American Public didn’t find out about the mass casualties for months. The same can be said about Tarawa and Iwo Jima.
Now, we have 24/7 news making the military’s job much more difficult. Take Vietnam, Somalia, and now Iraq as examples of reporting that has demonized the men and women fighting over there. Fortunately, a good amount of the public hasn’t treated our soldiers like they did many who returned from Vietnam. If you spend any time looking on Islamic Websites you will note that they do pay very close attention to what is reported and who is complaining. They use it all as propaganda. Al Qaeda training manuals have media relations and propaganda use now included.
So, overall, there is no doubt that some soldiers come home with PTSD. However, many come home having fullfilled a mission their country has asked of them. War is never the first choice; however, it has always been necessary to use war to achieve longer term goals that are important to United States National Security. Many people have sacrificed their lives in the furtherance of the American way of life. It is high time that we not place the military on the same page as politicians. In my view, there is no comparison between the two.
In today’s society, everyone seems to be more interested in short term goals without foresight to the geopolitical realities that face this country. Sgt. Vela was engaged in mission specific activities that undoubtedly placed stress on him. The military justice process going on deserves to run it’s course without people taking pot shots at the military and the Administration as a result of this case.
That’s what I like about you Mike! You always make some good and valid points in your rebuttals. Thanks!
I agree with your 24/7 news coverage of the war in Iraq, but with that being said, America is NOT getting the “instant” news of what’s happening over there, the way we think we are. Our news coverage in America is still withheld for weeks if not months on end. Whereas reports in other parts of the world are almost instantaneous. So why withhold & water down the coverage for the American public? Because if Americans truly knew what was going on over there, they’d have put a stop to this war years ago.
Sure, war is never a good thing. And although I stand behind our troops 100 % I do not support the way our President went after Iraq the way he did. I fully supported going after Al Qaeda in Afganistan, but the fact that it’s been all these years and we still have no clue where BinLaden is, shows me that our priorities are not where they should be.
Sure our long term goal should be the national security of the United States, but we all know that Iraq was not a threat to us. Al Qaeda was the threat and they were mainly in Afganistan with this all happened. Only when we decided to occupy Iraq, did they decide to follow us there and recruit hundreds of thousands of Muslim extremists to help their cause.
You and I both know there are and always have been much bigger threats to our country than Iraq, but those threats didn’t have anything that we could benefit from. (like OIL) You and I both know that the genocide going on in places like Sudan, Darfur and a number of other places, are much more important than whats happening in Iraq. But they don’t have anything to offer us, so why would we help? We want the title of “World Police”, but only when it benefits us financially or politically.
I’m all about being Patriotic and being a proud American, but when our President and his administration go off the deep end for their own financial gain, that’s when I have a problem. And it saddens me that more Americans don’t feel the same way. Their too self involved with their daily lives and the need to constantly consume, they don’t see, nor do they care what’s happening around them, because it’s not affecting them on a personal level. All they have to do, is turn off the tv and tune it all out and it’s like “what war”? The fact is times ARE different. And what was happening during WWII and what is happening now in Iraq, well, there’s just no comparisson.
So when you accuse people like myself of taking “pot shots” at our President & his administration, personally, I think I’m justified in doing so.
Mike…The Battle for KASSERINE Pass was in North Africa in 1943, the U.S. 1st Infantry Division lost about 1800 troops KIA, MIA or Captured, to include General George Patton’s son-in-law who was capatured. Patton, later in Europe while leading the 3rd Army in 1944, was accused of trying to free his son-in-law, who was in a pow camp near Hammelburg Germany for an unsuccessful raid to the camp (behind enemy lines), led by Major Abe Baughman with an infantry company and a company of armor from Lt.Colonel Creighton Abrahms (later the Commander in Vietnam).
Lisa: was there a point to your post, or where you just giving us a History lesson? Why not focus on the actual topic, instead of who the Generals or Colonels were in a particular battle? I guess I just didn’t understand the point of you trying to correct someone on something so insignifigant.
Jose…Read it closer. There is a point to it. Like I said in an earlier post, I’ll wait to hear the Army’s version of what happened. I feel for Sgt Vela and his family. I’ve spent many sleepless night watching the news hoping to get a glimps of my husband, wondering if he was still alive. Remember when the air strike hit the make shift pw camp in Afghanistan and U.S. Solders were killed and wounded? I watched it and found out the next day my husband was wounded by that air strike. Remeber when the 3rd ID’s 2nd Brigade entered Baghdad? My husband and his team was ahead of them, all of them wounded, some killed, but still in the fight but what we seen was 3rd ID.
Good response 007. I really do believe that criticism is essential to improve our policies and make things work better in the future. I appreciate your point of view and know you have a much stronger opinion on the war than I do because you have been directly effected as a result.
With that said, it is important to note that Al Qaeda was making attempts to use Iraq as a training ground. It is also noteworthy to understand the dynamics of the situation going on there…Saddam was trying to fool the Iranians into believing he had WMD. He did this to keep them from continuing the Iran/Iraq war so he could put his focus on invading Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Keep in mind that Al Qaeda was initially supported in large part by the Saudi’s. When Al Qaeda turned on the Saudi’s they naturally sought out other Sunni and Bathist based regimes that they thought would help them in their fight against not only American Imperialism, but Arab traitors. They leaned heavily on Bathist governments in Baghdad and Damascus (Syria) to achieve safe havens and financing. Interestingly, Saddam sought to placate Al Qaeda and use them as a force to destablize Iran (due to their ties to Syria) and make it easy for Saddam to waltz in and take over middle east oil reserves with little opposition. Unfortunately for Saddam, Al Qaeda got more support from Iran and Syria than he could muster. He was beaten to the punch at his game of manipulation. However, in the context of the time, the United States had actionable intel that Al Qaeda was forming up to have a signigicant presence in Iraq at Saddam’s urging (before his plans went up in smoke).
The Islamic Caliphate (World Government) has always historically been housed in Iraq. The Iranians believe this, the Wahabbists and Sunni’s all seem to agree on this point. This is yet another reason that Iraq is so important strategically beyond oil. If a caliph were allowed to be established this could potentially bring the Sunni’s, Shia, and Wahabbists closer together. This does not bode well for US interests in the short or long term. Making an argument about oil alone doesn’t adequately address why we are over there.
So, if the war had not been started with Iraq in 2003, it would have occurred soon thereafter due to fears of various factions of Islam uniting together and harming Western interests in the process. Had we simply invaded Afghanistan and rooted out the Taliban, the Al Qaeda presence would have been expanding to Iraq, Iran, and Syria. We see exactly what Al Qaeda is doing in Pakistan. We also see what they have been doing in Syria. Many Al Qaeda fighters were recently cornered by the Lebanese Army, near Beirut this Summer. They were attempting to expand into Lebanon and they were crushed with force this Summer. No doubt, this is what is required in Pakistan….this is why we have yet to get Bin Laden….POLITICS….and trying to play nice with Pakistan. Had we not invaded Iraq, arguably the entire region would be undergoing an unfettered reunion of Sunni, Shia, and Wahhabi sects–of which the US Military would have had to engage all at once. Talk about a blood bath! This is why the counter-insurgency strategy of Petraeus has been brilliant…it has maniplated the various sects of Islam against one another. Prior to this, we were engaged in a futile effort to combat all the factions. It was getting us no where fast. I fault the President and Rumsfeld on that point. This strategy should have been implemented much sooner. So, in the end analysis, it is truly a question whether we pay now or pay much more later. To me, the answer is obvious–take care of the situation now and control the outcome rather than continue to use brute force and greater loss of American life to achieve victory over radical Islam. They must be defeated. We cannot wait until they show up on our shores to be concerned and take action.
All of you make good points and bring good knowledge to the table. What’s done is done, now we need to get it finished right, and find whatever possible peace that can be had in that fractious part of the world.
Evan Vela’s situation is part of that whole thing, it’s hard to debate his situation without drawing in all the history and the politics.
I do question that we will ever know the truth, because as was said, there will be three sides to this story and I’m not sure the truth will be one of the two sides presented at trial.
Question: Would Sgt Vela be in this situation IF Bush, Cheney had been honest with America?, IF every member of congress had read the National Inteligence Estimate that said Iraq had no WMD’s, were they all following Bush’s call to war?. This is something I think we need to look at come elections so the same mistake won’t be made again. Maybe if Clinton, the Hillary one, is elected she might rethink her past when its the lives of our military members depends on her stalwartly record.
Here are some links to a report released today that shows at least 935 lies perpetrated by the Bush administration to sway public opinion toward favoring their war.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/559661/president_bushs_lies_according_to_the.html
http://www.huliq.com/48095/center-public-integrity-administration-lied-about-iraq
If this is the same government that is prosecuting Sgt. Vela I don’t believe a word they say. Why should I?
I appreciate the opportunity to read this discussion. I am a retired Army lieutenant colonel, was a commander, was an Article 32 officer, a member of a court-martial panel, and a witness at a court-martial.
Lisa: You gave us good information. (1) Since this was a capital crime, a general court-martial would have been convened. A general in command would have ordered the Article 32 investigation which was probably done by a major, lieutentant colonel (relatively senior officers), or a Judge Advocate General officer (an attorney). (2) Soldiers actually have an obligation, not just a right, to disobey an illegal order.
Joe: I understand your concern that ‘military justice can be political’. I went to law school after I retired and have seen both military and civilian justice. I even teach military justice at the local university. The advantage of a court-martial over a civilian trial is that everyone involved – the Article 32 officer, the court-martial panel (jury), judge, attorneys – will be college graduates. The commander who empanels the court-martial is prohibited by law from attempting to influence the court-martial and the officers involved would be incensed if the attempt was made. F. Lee Bailey, famed (and infamous) defense attorney wrote in his book, ‘The Defense Never Rests’, that he would prefer to defend a client in a court-martial over a civilian trial because the court-martial panel officers will understand what has to be proven and if it is not proven, they will not convict. I actually think that a military trial will be less political than a civilian one.
Bushwhacker: Of the 935 lies of the Bush administration, the majority were about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction. All the intelligence communities which the US coordinates with, as well as our own, believed that Iraq had WMD and was prepared to use them. Being mistaken is different than telling a lie. Unfortunately I cannot comment on the other ‘lies’, perhaps they were lies, I don’t know. I suspect the Center for Public Intergrity does not know either.
Thank you, I have enjoyed all this.
That is a good point Eric, thanks for pointing that out. I had not thought of it that way.
Are any local media outlets sending a reporter to Baghdad to cover the trial, or are they relying on wire services?
Joe…I doubt any of the local media knows where Iraq is other than what they see on a network map.
Eric…Thank You.
It would take an awesome local news outlet to send a reporter to cover the Baghdad trial. Do we have any?
According to Vela’s father, or step father, Vela won several motions in his trial.
1. Be flown to Germany to be tested for PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (has he been wounded in Iraq?).
2. The Renown Medical Examinier Michael Baden (Fox News ME who will say who killed JFK if you pay him enough) will testify on Vela’s behalf.
This information is from Vela’s Father/Step Father via the Rexburg Newspaper.
Cool, thanks for sharing that update with the rest of us who don’t access the Rexburg newspaper.
Any idea on how long the trial is expected to last? Will it be a day or several?
I just can’t believe they moved the trial date AGAIN! It was supposed to be on the 28th , but apparently not. This is like the 3rd time they’ve changed it. I wanna find out what happens!
*28th of Jan
EVAN I LOVE YOU AND WE ARE ALL PRAYING FOR THE BEST TURNOUT POSSIBLE!! YOUR COUSIN
I personally served side by side with him on almost every mission we went on. Minus the one being investigated. I too was a team leader in the sniper section and I support evan and his family 100%. One fact I want to bring up that I don’t hear about often is the sleep deprevation we as snipers endured over there. I recall one mission in february where 7 of us were operating in a known area where insurgents used to cache weapons and explosives. It was a 4 day mission and myself and one other were responsible for a quarter of our perimeters security. Myself and my battle buddy spent the entire time doing daytime shifts of one hour up pulling security and one hour down (trying to sleep, eating, field cleaning our weapons) and nighttime shifts of two hours. By day three I was halucinating. When it was my turn to be down, I couldn’t sleep and when I did fall asleep I would violently awake thinking I had fallen asleep while on guard. The temps. during this time ranged from high 30’s at night to 70 degrees in the day. In addition to the stresses on our bodies and mind I just described the infiltration by foot takes an extreme amount of energy out of you. body armor – helmet – weapon (60+lbs.), rucksack with all equipment food and water (100+ lbs) I have been back in the states for a little over 2 months and I am just now beginning to realized how screwed up in the head I am. I still can’t sleep, and sometime when I do, I will dream about being there violently awake thinking I was asleep on guard.
too bad the isnsurgents didn’t deal with this kiler who murdered the father of an iraqi boy. we need to send vela south of the border which is where the real terrorists are coming from.
Oh, I guess ‘dguy’ must have been an eyewitness. You should contact the military and testify at his trial since you seem to have direct knowledge of the crime……and just why would we send him South of the Border? Please don’t tell me you are one of those Baptist Church nuts that hate homosexuals, Mexicans, etc…….? Otherwise, why would you say such a thing?
the iraq war was a war to protect jews in israel. you people need to look at a map and connectthe dots.
crips and bloods kill and rape americans everyday yet mutants like evan vela are killing destitute iraqis who are suffering from PTSD instead of the real terrorists. the insurgents are cleaning out our defective gene pool. there was plenty of proof there were no WMD before 2003. only after bodybags and caracasses starting being shipped back to the US did people start to question the validity of the holocaust we caused in iraq.
we have some real freaks in our society who murder like they did in haditha, iraq so some weird “god’s chosen” can be safe in israel. look at all the zionists like wolfowitz who got all these idiots to imagine islam is the enemy when the factis immigrants from mexico are stealing all the jobs from americans.
the zionists forces of america has made us americans into useless idiots who think the enemy of israel is our enemy when in fact the islamists want peace in the middle east but the jews won’t have it. are islamists pornographers who spread AIDS? Who owns hollywood which made everyone believe the islamists are our enemy? the fact is the jews fear islam since those islamic countries are next to israel and the jews stole arab land.
we need to pay the iraqis for the crimes against humanity we committed against them and the jews must give back the land they stole in the middle east and that will clean up the mess over there.
islam is rising and we can’t stop it but we can stop the hispanic invasion which is going to bankrupt out country.
“…Please don’t tell me you are one of those Baptist Church nuts that hate homosexuals, Mexicans, etc…….? Otherwise, why would you say such a thing?”
the nuts are the ones who ruminate about islam 24/7/365 while affirmative action and immigration take away jobs from true americans. we need to forget about islam and those who want to use islam as a way to divert peoples’ attention away from the destructive effects immigratiuon and affirmative action have on our society.
BTW if you imagine people who murdered small children in iraq like in haditha care about homosexual rights you have read way too many gay magazines.
is vela an immigrant trying to get a green card? can someone please post a picture of this person who murdered a man for no reason.
if he murdered an iraqi for no reason who can say he won’t murder an american for no reason and is this vela fit to return to idaho and be among normal people or should he be sent back to mexico or better yet sit in a prison for the rest of his useless life?
he must not have any children living in st. anthony for him to have murdered the father of a teenage boy. what a psychopath. people like him who don’t value life they will be the next generation of serial killers.
does vela have children in st. anthony and what do his children think of the teenage iraq boy whose father was murdered for no reason?
I love americans like “dguy.” They have found everything there is to know about what’s going on in this world by sitting behind their computer monitor. Dguy why don’t you make comments to the people you are addressing to their face. The truth is you couldn’t because if you stood in the presence of great men like Sgt. Evan Vela, myslef, or any other soldier for that matter you would urinate in your pants like the scared dog you are. you know it, I know it, the whole world knows it. The only reason you have survived this long is because you hide behind this great country and the people who give all to protect it. If you feel so much sympathy for the islamists who “hollywood has taught us to hate” why don’t you go to Iraq, link up with some AQIZ (al qaeda) and tell them you are an american who sympathizes with their cause. I would love it because you would be the next contestant on “Who’s getting their head chopped off next.”
“Dguy why don’t you make comments to the people you are addressing to their face. The truth is you couldn’t because if you stood in the presence of great men like Sgt. Evan Vela, myslef, or any other soldier for that matter…”:
people like you hate freedom of speech and threaten peoples’ lives if they practice it, then when you take a beating for threatening someone you want then arrested so you people are the enemies of freedom (and true cowards who murder innocents) and i’d love to tell the psychopathic murderer evan vela and his children (if any woman had any with him) in st. anthony idaho what i think of his psychopathic murdering in iraq before i ship him south of the border.
people like him are the terrorists and now i know why the 2nd amendment is so important these days.
the people who hate freedom are freaks like even vela.
I think dguy needs to either produce his evidence why he is so positive of Vela’s guilt or chill out. Nobody here knows what happened that’s why we’re discussing it and following the events over there.
I’m not going to nitpick over all the little things, but dguy is saying things that are obviously ignorant of the facts to those who have followed this story. For example, “…he must not have any children…”; when we know Vela’s wife talked about his son asking why dad didn’t return with his unit. dguy is obviously expressing his own hate, so I recommend ignoring his comments until he brings them back into the realm of logic and facts.
KPVI appears to have the best reporting on the Vela trial:
http://kpvi.com/Global/story.asp?S=7849753
They report the defense rested, I think it was yesterday, so the verdict should be out today or tomorrow?
Everything I’ve read indicates that
1) Vela should have been convicted for planting evidence and lying, and
2) he should have been found innocent of unpremeditated murder.
When you have armed, heavily-fatigued men in a combat zone they aren’t going to make the right decision all the time, especially when it is often unclear who the enemy is. This is especially true when they have to make life or death decisions in a fraction of a second. Based on what I have read, it is absurd to convict Vela of unpremeditated murder. I believe that decision will actually put the lives of U.S soldiers at risk, as they may hesitate to use deadly force when they should for fear of criminal prosecution.
That said, it is reasonable to expect that Vela would not have attempted to cover up the shooting. That was not a snap decision, but something that involved premeditation and active participation in the cover-up.
In this case, whether or not one supports the war in Iraq (I don’t) is irrelevant. The fact is were are there, and we should expect that American soldiers will be treated justly and that the extreme circumstances of their service in that country will be taken into account. I believe that this verdict of unpremeditated murder is unjust and sets a very bad precedent, and I hope that it will be overturned on appeal.
KPVI (and other national outlets) report Vela was found guilty and sentenced to 10 years prison. He was found guilty of murder without premeditation, planting evidence on the body, making a false official statement, and “of conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline.” He loses all his pay and pay allowances and will be dishonorably discharged.
http://www.kpvi.com/Global/story.asp?S=7850176
His family told KPVI: “Evan hung himself out to dry when he testified in such a way as to set Staff Sgt. Hensley free in his trial.” However the AP reports “Vela testified at Hensley’s court-martial in late September, under a deal that bars his account of events from being used against him at his own court-martial.” So ummmm huh?
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g-zT8WvZY-uYK3d-CARtfDJgnR-wD8UNJ8HO0
So now what do you think? I read about the sleep deprivation and incredible fatigue that unit went through leading up to the incident, and it sounds to me like those guys couldn’t have been firing on all cylinders when it happened.
Okay, so these two soldiers capture this guy and his son. These two men are unarmed and compliant. They then let the son go, but keep the father and handcuff him. The father gets agitated and starts to protest (understandable, I would in his place). Meanwhile, some other Iraqi men are walking by – probably coincidentally – and there’s a risk they could get alerted to your presence.
There a several things these soldiers could have done at this point, but what they did do was remove the handcuffs (to avoid leaving incriminating marks?) and shoot him twice in the head, “execution style” as the papers would put it. Is this acceptable behaviour for U.S. soldiers? And then to make matters worse, they try to plant a weapon on him.
vela proved he is a coward by crying when he was found gulty. the iraqi teen whose father was murdered was more of a man than vela was or ever will be in prison or in civilian life.
now vela portrays himself as taking all the blame to save another soldier above him from being charged. maybe vela is just a psychopathic liar who will do anything to walk free or make himself look good?
everyone in the military (or civilians who work 2 jobs) is sleep deprived. it’s an idiotic excuse to murder innocents used to play on the emotions of people who wave flags rabidly who never served in the military nor worked two jobs.
vela is proof that getting 3rd world immigrants to serve in the military is a bad mistake. we need to be out of iraq and on the mexican border to stop these criminals from taking all our jobs and bankrupting our welfare and social security system. this immigration affects us, terorism in the middle east does not affect americans and these people in the media constantly nag about terrorism to keep peoples’ attention off of the things which do affect us that are going to bankrupt america, one of those things being south of the border immigration.
Ok Dman has no clue what really happend does he? I think war is hell and people get a bit jumpy when shot at alot, and people trying to blow them up with hidden car bombs all the time. Being tired and sore and under alot of stress can cause paranoia. I think that being the case and our troops doing what they had to do for self preservation is fine. I would have killed the guy too. War isnt fun and definatly waiting around for someone to give away your position and causing your death isnt something to chance. I tell you what a commanding officer tells you to kill someone you better damn well do it or he can shoot you too. During the time of war you must follow all direct orders from the commanding officer or face death. Vela and his family our hearts go out to you during this sad time in history. I am sorry to see your Son used as a way for George Bush to try and make the Islamic people trust his war of terror. Your Son and Husband is only being used to make George Bush’s war look good to the Iraqi’s. He is showing that his troops can be punished just like they can for errors. If our country prosecuted every man and woman who has made a mistake during time of war, over 1/3 of our troops would be in prison. Sht happens during time of war. You just do not have the time to react in a subjective manner. You hurry and shoot them first or pause and get killed. How many people in here have been shot at before? Joe havent you been in Iraq before? Explain what we go thru to these people. Vela is innocent. He isnt commiting a serious war crime. He is fighting a war with freeking sadistic animals that look like civilians. He didnt have time to check the guys back ground or ask his kid who they are and if they are terrorist. You kill them and ask questions later. I guess vela is alive atleast only ten years of his life is gone. So what its better then being in a coffin.
GOD BLESS YOU VELA!!!! GOD BLESS YOUR WIFE AND KID!!! I think everyone should buy his child some clothes and candy and send his wife flowers and cards. We all support you here at ISU in Pocatello. My dad is a high ranking officer I am currently asking him for help Vela. I think George Bush needs to give you a Presidental pardon. I think everyone needs to put pressure on the white house everyone e-mail them call them beg for help. We need to get the President of the United States to Pardon Vela so his baby and wife can have him back.
I read the accounts of the trial. It is interesting to note that Sgt. Hensley ordered Vela to shoot the Iraqi man with a 9mm so they would not be discovered by “military aged” Iraqi males that were within 100 yards of their concealed position.
Now, if we take this testimony at face value, that the Iraqi man was killed to protect their position then why on earth would you shoot off 2 rounds of ammo to kill a man…..wouldn’t this expose your position even more than gagging the Iraqi man until the coast was clear? That point alone did not make sense….and why plant an AK-47 on the body if you did nothing wrong?
For me, the decision to kill the Iraqi man makes no sense from a tactical perspective. In fact, it flies in the fact of tactics that can conceal ones position. In fact, the firing of rounds seeks only to expose ones position. This seems to me to be a lynch pin of this case: Using approved tactics that result in killing (which is understood and expected in war) vs. simply using brutality and murder without regard to operational value or tactics that could save your life or those of fellow soldiers. I believe for this reason the military panel chose to find Vela guilty.
We are at war with Iraq. The country is a war zone. If we don’t stand up for Sgt. Evan Vela, a warfighter, we have failed this soldier. I don’t understand why we aren’t trying to defend him since the first military lawyer gave him some bad advice, namely to plead guilty. I am contributing right now to his defense fund.
Pat
In my opinion people can sit here and leave there comments as well as what they think happened, but the truth of the matter is that NOBODY will ever know what happened. I am sure that there are many sides of the story and not all the details of the situation are going to be released. Evan was just something to be used and discarded. The US army used him to show that we will give people in Iraq justice.Where is our justice?Something that is also not being said here is the fact that Sgt. Hensley testified that he in fact ordered Vela to shoot. Why than was that person not charged with anything? I suppose the US army had to blame someone,even if he was not the only guilty person present. The people in Iraq could care less about the people in America. I do not believe it is our duty to try and fix other countries or try to get them to think a certain way. Why are we trying to make them a democracy? Just because it works here does not mean it will work over there. Evan is innocent and any person who says otherwise is ignorant.How can anyone say what should have happened when they themselves have never been in that situation. On a closing note Evan is not from Mexico so no we can not ship him south of the border.The person who left that comment must not do his homework, but does a real good job of sounding as someone with little intelligence.
I do agree with you Jessica. Except that nobody mentioned Velas commanding officer told him to shoot that guy. I did mention that. I think our chicken crap government needs to stand up for our troops and show thier true faces. The faces of a more powerful country who doesnt take any crap from mid eastern countries. Who cares if he shot a civilian its war. Our men are a bit jumpy they are fighting for survival over there. If they do not want civilians killed send them away from the city as refugees. or KIA’s who cares lol
our troops are always right I dont care the terrorist arent following any rules over there so we need to play dirty to. Shoot first ask thier name later.
Isupport: “WHO cares if he shot a civilian, it’s war”??? Are you freakin kidding me?? That’s the most ignorant comment I’ve ever heard! YOU would care if it were YOUR family member that got shot. But then again….maybe not.
We all know it’s a war zone, but the fact of the matter is, he took it upon himself to shoot an unarmed civilian and then put a weapon on his person to cover his butt! The guy is a murderer, case closed!
Like Jessica said, nobody will ever know the whole story except for God and Sergeant Vela. But the fact is, he admitted to shooting the man and his punishment must fit the crime.
Your callous who cares attitude is sickening.
One of the rules of war is to not kill civilians. It’s shrugged off as collateral damage if civilians get killed in crossfire or during larger assaults. It is a war crime when civilians get killed when active combat is not happening. I think this fell into the grey area because they were trying to protect their mission, however it seems they could have and should have taken alternative measures.
“He is fighting a war with freeking sadistic animals that look like civilians. He didnt have time to check the guys back ground or ask his kid who they are and if they are terrorist. You kill them and ask questions later.”
considering the quote above, is this what americans should do to mexicans crossing the border who come here to commit crimes who violated our laws? If iraqi children and civilians are animals and terrorists are mexicans & hispanics animals and terrorists who should be shot too?
Note to Supporter: Get some help with your stress issues so you can rest at night! I work as a healthcare advocate and know that a little therapeutic assistance can be needed after such a difficult human experience. I am shocked that one of our warfighters, Sgt. Evan Vela, has been treated so badly by his superior officers and doubt that this soldier got a fair trial. Anyone know the name of the military prison in which he will serve his sentence?
Leavenworth, Kansas.
Our soldiers are trained to make split second decisions. That fact that Vela didn’t do that, and DIDN’T see a gun in this Iraqi’s hand, should have stopped him from committing this crime. And then for him to go PLANT a weapon on this Iraqi is unexcusable. He’s guilty as charged, case closed.
Not so fast, JoseCuervo. There’s a war going on over there and this soldier’s CO made the second mistake. The first mistake was Sgt. Vela falling asleep at his post. Why ordinary citizens are even discussing this horrible war story is beyond me; there was a breakdown in the esprits de corp and people are getting killed every day. It’s a war zone and most Americans have trouble with this notion. I wonder how many of Sgt. Vela’s unit members did not return to Ft. Rich? Died over there.
Re: Leavenworth for Sgt. Vela, do you think he will get treatment for PTSD while in prison?
I’m well aware that theres a war going on over there. DUH! But the fact remains, this soldier (who is trained to make split second decisions) placed a weapon in the hands of an unarmed civilian (that he shot & killed in cold blood) to cover his butt!!! End of story!
No, it’s not the end of the story. All these trained killers, the sniper unit, were being trained in counterterrorist field ops. Mistakes were made but the Army does lots of things we don’t know about! I couldn’t stand the visual of what our soldiers go through fighting this war. The cold blood comment is cold considering these people are getting shot at everyday and a little jumpy to say the least.
Well you have your opinion and I have mine, so we’ll just leave it at that. The guys in prison so I can feel good about that.
I support our troops becuase they don’t make mistakes thier commanding officer makes mistakes. He is trained to follow orders with out question. If I was told to shoot a woman carrying a baby I would because that was my orders. You do not question your commanding officer. That is how our troops stay alive and dont become a dead troop. I support Vela too and what he did was right by trying to cover it up. Our nation does some bad things during time of war and really didn’t need the negative media cover on this civilian death. Covering it up was the most American thing he did. And following orders shows his ability to follow orders. God Bless you Vela. Good job well done. its to bad our nations leaders used you for political agendas and didnt watch your back. But your commanding officer did have your back when he testified to giving you the orders to kill that man.
See, this is once again a misconception. A soldier may get an order from his commanding officer, but he doesn’t have to follow that order. He has the right to question that order and NOT do it. Learn about the armed services before spouting off at the mouth that you’d kill a woman carrying a child!!! Unfreakinbelievable!
Sgt. Evan Vela will continue to have his supporters, even if he ultimately serves all ten years of the sentence. I am not sure he got a fair trial and would like that reviewed. I have never been in a war but have delivered humanitarian aid to war areas and it is tough, people were always trying to kill us. And we had food, not guns. I was thankful for the U.N. soldiers that guarded me on these missions.
Thank you, troops, for your service.
Wow your brave.
No, I am a coward, like you, if you have never been in the line of fire. I want to know what other people are doing to help Sgt. Evan Vela get a fair review and help for PTSD while in prison.
Your calling me a coward?? Excuse me I have been shot at over there. So you know what you tree huggin terd talker. Sounds like to me you don’t support our boys and girls over there to much. You have no idea what the military is like. Orders roll down hill and so does trouble. You have to follow any order a commanding officer gives you or they have the right to place a gun agianst your temple and blow your head off during the time of war. You have to kill who ever they tell you to. You are a robot that takes orders and executes them with out question. Vela only did his job and trust me he has no regrets. It all comes with the job.
Live Free…get back on your meds, maybe get an appoinment for a CT Scan. IF you really served in the military then you would know that every soldier has the right and obligation to refuse an an order they feel is unlawful or immoral. As for you shooting a woman with a baby if told to do so well you would not only have to answer to your chain of command but to God. As for your statement about soldiers not making mistakes that tells me you never served a day in the military. Ciao Snuffy.
I never said I was a soldier My dad is. I worked there as a civialian. My dad is an officer and he says the same I do. If your commanding officer tells you to burn a village you better ask him where are the matches and get er done. Thats all I am saying. You arent supposed to have a mind of your own as a lister of commands. Vela did what he was told to do that is all I am saying and if you can’t get that thru your head I am done thinking of different ways to explain it. I already gave you the military chain of commands for dummies way of explaining it what else do you want?
I have no idea why you all want to attack me for. I am only telling ya why he did all of it. Thats the problem with people now adays they all live in disney land instead of the real world. They do not want to admit its messed up. Maybe you should be on a few meds to help you get back into reality.
Livefree’s problem is he constantly talks down to people on every topic on this site, thinking he knows everything about everything when it’s evident he doesn’t know much of anything. Only wishing to build himself up while putting others down. Just one reason I don’t put much stock into what this person says.
His attitude and lack of respect speaks volumes of his character and the fact that he would shoot and kill an innocent woman and child “because his CO told him to” is absolutely pathetic and disgusting. I only wish your “Daddy” could read that comment you wrote, (if in fact he is in the armed services). I’m sure he’d be real proud of you!
Okay…..how about shifting topic off individuals here and back on Vela’s situation? I saw that Hannity ran a piece on Vela last night. It didn’t say too much new information and mainly pointed out that the guy giving the order to shoot the Iraqi got off pretty light in comparison to Vela. They even had Dr. Michael Baden on there as well talking about how the guy only had one shot through the head and not 2 as the prosecution asserted. I am not sure what the difference would have been whether it was 1 or 2 shots. The result was that this man was killed. Does anybody know what significance this was supposed to have?
im done waisting my time with 007 he or she is really a fire starter.
Than don’t make outrageous comments like shooting a Mother and child!
Look up the definition of ‘Mythomania” and see if it applies to any of the posters here, and then reconsider whether you should worry about responding to their comments as seriously as you have been.
Aren’t you the wise one with a new screen name? Yeah, we’ll listen to what YOU have to say.
There’s always “somebody” out there with all the answers. That’s why I love this place!
Hey – thanks for the new word. I have finally found the perfect way to describe my nutty cousin!
(scary to think she is being deployed to the war soon, I don’t think her mental stability is good but that’s a whole other topic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythomania
It’s just nicer to tell somebody they have mythomania, than to call them a pathelogical liar.
*** edited for put-downs ***
An interesting observation here is just about everything about this issue has come from Vela’s father/family which is fine but wheres the other side of the story?. Vela was found guilty by a pannel of his peers (military members) just like a civilian court. Local media has only reported what Vela’s father has told them.
Does it matter that Vela’s dad is a convicted Felon? Does it matter that all the information is flowing in a one way direction? I think Lisa brings up a good point. The only reason that the military doesn’t actively post a counter argument is because they don’t have to. They made their argument in a military court and that is all that matters to them. It will be interesting to see if Vela’s appeal goes through. It kind of reminds me of those two US Border Agents imprisoned for 11 and 12 years respectively. The sentence does seem excessive and there was an abundance of contradictory evidence in that case. As for Vela, he made a poor tactical decision to shoot the Iraqi man so as to not expose their position—yet, in firing off a round, he did expose their position—and killed a man in the process. Not very efficient use of deadly force imo.
Joe…that wasn’t a put down, just stating an army fact so there
)
I understand the Army term, the way it was directed at that person I interpreted as a put-down, especially when it did not serve the greater conversation. Judgement call.
Joe you never edit guest 007 for saying put downs and rude stuff to people. as matter of fact he is saying some really rude stuff to me above and it was never edited.
I know I miss a lot. I read through the comments above and do not see anything out of line form Guest_007, please point out a comment number you think crosses the line and I’ll be happy to re-evaluate it.
So what’s Evan Vela’s status now? Is he in Ft. Leavenworth? Does he get any appeals? Or is that about the last we will hear from him for 10 years?
Generally speaking, it’s a US legal principle that US soldiers only have to follow lawful orders, and that they may be criminally prosecuted if they follow unlawful orders. In the regular court system, this kind of killing would probably be at least voluntary manslaughter, and since he refused a plea, on the whole, the judgment seems reasonable. Even taken at face value, Vela’s story shows that he knew the order was unlawful. It’s for the courts to determine guilt or innocence and weigh the evidence, but the court’s judgment is consistent with legal principles.
I think war is an ugly thing , and when you are in one people die. This kid was trained to put bullets in peoples heads. whether or not he put his bullet in the head of a “combatant” or a “noncombatant” is a matter that should at least be decided here at home. Not in the middle of a war.
He acted under extreme duress. Hopefully the jury and judge will take Sergeant Evan Vela’s atypical environment, responsibilities and situation into consideration when considering his actions, and their necessary punishment.