Do Not Knock List Needed in Idaho Falls
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I propose Idaho Falls creates a “Do Not Knock” ordinance to restrict door-to-door salespeople.
I get these traveling salespeople all the time, even sometimes after 9 PM evenings and today before noon on a Sunday.
I am not a cranky geezer yelling at kids to get off my lawn, but I do not appreciate these interruptions and intrusions at my private home.
I register on the National Do Not Call list because I do not want telemarketing phone calls. I pay extra for a DVR because I do not want to watch television ads. I subscribe to the digital version of the Post Register and am glad I do not have to wade through as many print advertisements.
The last bastion of peace in my home is via my front doorbell, and I feel it is one of the most intrusive. If I wanted magazine subscriptions or shampooed carpets, I am confident I could find them on my own.
I think Idaho Falls should adopt a Do Not Knock ordinance that does the following:
- Limits door-to-door sales activities to 9 AM through 7 PM, Monday through Friday only.
- Creates a Do Not Knock list, and publishes updated versions on the first of each month.
- City residents could register their address on the list for free, for a period of two years.
- For profit marketers would pay $50 for the list.
- Non profit, political, and religious organizations would pay $10 for the list.
- A resident who is on the list and gets a marketer at their door would record the name of the company/organization, time of the visit, name/description of the person who knocked, and collect any literature that person offers.
- Residents would report the offending company/organization to the city, including all the details in the previous point in order to prove the incident occurred.
- The city would levy a $100-400 fine against the company/organization for each reported infraction.
- The fine would be split evenly between the city and the resident whose peace was broken.
- Companies/organizations with more than ten violations per month would be subject to a tripling of all the normal fees and fines.
Of course the exception would be made for Halloween trick-or-treaters.
I searched around and found a nice online registration site that Parma, Ohio is using.
Yes, notice that I also think we should include political and religious activities in this ordinance. These activities were exempted from the national Do-Not-Call list, however I think giving residents the option to restrict these from their homes would help reduce some of the thick religious tensions our city experiences. I recall my wife’s frustration with a Jehovah’s witness who insisted on trying to talk us into driving down to Provo, Utah for their religious picnic.
I know somebody will say I should just post a “No Soliciting” sign by my doorbell. First, I think many of these door-to-door salespeople are the type that may not understand a big term like ’soliciting’, or are brash enough to ignore it completely. Second, this is akin to putting the ‘no soliciation’ recording on all of your incoming phone calls. This recording forces everyone to listen to a 30-second spiel, which punishes all innocent parties and does not guarantee a marketer will be discouraged.
I hope this is an issue on which we can agree privacy and private property rights should trump market tools.
What do you think?
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Comments
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0 
0 The “no soliciting” signs don’t work anyways. I’ve lived in numerous apartments in a few different cities that have had “no soliciting” signs posted at the entrances. The salesmen, and the bible thumpers still came, so obviously they either don’t know what “soliciting” means, or they chose to ignore it and come a’knockin anyways.
I can’t stand it when someone comes knocking on my door unannounced. And some of them DO come after 9pm, usually the Mormons or Jehovah’s witness. All of my friends and family know to call me first before just “dropping by” for a visit. So when somebody comes knocking on my door that I’m not expecting, I don’t even bother getting up to answer it. It’s still irritating though having them ring your doorbell 2 or 3 times.
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0 0 I’m not saying let’s outlaw these activities, which would go too far.
I am merely saying that enabling residents to block these activities will make living in Idaho Falls a much nicer experience. How can city leadership argue against that?
Not everyone would sign up for the list, and perhaps it could have three options to block commercial knockers, political knockers, religious knockers, and/or a combination of the three.
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0 0 At my work there is a sign on the building stating No Solicitation. Yet, everyone from those who want to do cosmetic make overs, weight losee, to sales forces, to recent graduates from some regional schools feel free to walk in at any time. After all, aren’t those of us paying for that building just waiting for these folks to come walking through the door and offer to sell us most everything (or employ them)?
From their perspective, people who disregard the boundaries of others don’t care how much confusion and chaot at existing businesses. If they did, they wouldn’t violate the steps many of us have taken to protect ourselves from unwanted intrusions such as these.
One person in particular tried to gain access to me/the office/building last fall. It was after hours and all the doors were locked. This ambitious sales woman had not only left her cards under the all the employees and customer’s windshield wipers, she had attempted to leave information at each offic; however, it appears she wasn’t successful.
Working late and having my light on, I found my windows being pounded by this woman’s fists, trying to gain my attention. I obviously did not appreciate her over-the-top efforts to get into a locked, secure building after hours - I had work to finish.
Finally, after about 45 minutes, she gave up, as I ignored her and turned a CD player much louder.
Being the wise “semi-detective” that I was (I picked up one of her 2-3 dozen cards at one of the outside doors) where she dumped them and I decided it was time to attempt to teach someone a lesson. I decided to call this woman to ask about her business. After all, her card said to call anytime.
She wasn’t too nice to me at 2:00 a.m. when I called her and told her I was calling about her cards dumped at the door. She didn’t have much to say as I told her I could have just as easily called 911 and had her removed.
When I reminded her the building was not a place where she could attempt to find potential clients, “This is a free country and I have the freedom of speech!”
HUH?
My response was she did indeed have the protected freedom of free speech in the U.S.; however, this freedom did not give her freedom to trespass on private property. Thus, she could not advertise her business especially where it was clearly posted that “No Soliciation was Allowed.”
Somehwere during her next comment I hung up. I really did not wish to know more about her business, I was simpnly trying to teach a lesson - at least about my building. By calling at 2:00 a.m. - the end of my work day- I woke her up. I hoped to impress upon this person that while she thought she could enter my building at any time and it didn’t “bother anyone,” perhaps by me awaking her at 2:00 a.m., she would realize that I wasn’t hurting anyone, just calling her number at a time when I was free.
She hasn’t been back to our building.
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0 0 That is hilarious! Freedom of speech, some people use these words without knowing what they really mean.
Anyone else with similar experiences?
This really underscores the need for a do-not-knock list being needed in Idaho Falls!
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0 0 So, will you be taking this petition door-to-door?
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0 0 I’ll sign your petition, Joe.
I’m tired of the carpet-shampoo, missionary, vacuum salesmen/women ringing the doorbell and banging on the door all weekend. My favorite is when they wake up the babies.
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0 0 I think we need a “No, Jeremy Doesn’t Want to Go to Grand Rapids or Southern California to Sell Pest Control and/or Home Security Systems, nor Does He Want to Participate in any other Pyramid Scheme” list. Being a college student is exhausting just having to fend off these ambitious sales kids who want to make commission off of getting me into their little sales cult.
ps I think this is a good idea.
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0 0 You know those door hanger thingies they have for motels that say Do Not Disturb? I saw some funny ones the other day at Shaddow Domain. The one I remember is something like: PORN SHOOT IN PROGRESS - QUIET ON SET or something like that. While your friends and family would probably not know what to think, imagine what door-to-door salespeople or missionaries would do. Maybe not the best solution, but a darn funny one.
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0 0 Fortunately for me, the neighbors have ‘warned’ the missionaries about the heathen that lives in their neighborhood, so they leave us alone. The salesmen come by once in a while, and after I ask if I can come to their house and wake up their kids, they usually get the hint. The pushy ones get pushed back, but not literally.
I don’t think that a ‘no solicitors’ sign would work. Back when I was a mormon and a missionary, we were ‘encouraged’ to ignore them, then plead ignorance if called on it. I would definitely sign up for a no-knock list, unless they came to my door to ask me to sign it. (It seemed that the humor of Davidson’s post was missed by some)
We are also on the ‘do-not-call’ list, but still get calls from student loan consolidation people. They even bypass the block. The last conversation went like this:
my wife- why did you pass my telemarketer block?
them- we aren’t selling anything, just offering student loan consolidation
my wife- wow! your loans are Zero percent interest?
them- well, no, but…
my wife(interupting)- THEN YOU’RE SELLING SOMETHING!!!! Don’t call me again!
That little gem actually got them to leave us alone.
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0 0 I think what the posts on this thread have proved already is that there are ways to stop these kinds of solicitations without making municipal governments go through the hassle — and expense — of maintaining do-not-knock lists.
On another tack — the city of Rexburg requires business licenses of anyone going door-to-door selling commercial stuff, and they will harass sellers who don’t have licenses. That seems to be a better answer that already fits into an existing bureaucracy.
Where I live (in Sugar City) we get hit a lot by lawn treatment and satellite TV people. I guess they look at our brown lawn and (non-functional) TV antannae (I hate spelling that word) and figure we’re easy marks. We just cheerfully say no. We even joked with one satellite guy that we prefer watching movies rather than TV — and he said he agreed with us. He’s just doing his job. We get them off our porch, I’m trying to say, with cheerfulness and good humor, rather than rancor.
On a religious note (you knew that was going to come into the conversation sooner or later):
1) We’ve shooed away Jehovah’s Witnesses with the same kind of humor.
2) I served a LDS mission in France. We were strongly encouraged to obey no soliciation signs.
And no matter who’s at the door: It’s your right to say no. Close the door. If you can’t get out of an aggressive sales pitch, don’t make your local municipality do it for you.
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0 0 I have no problem saying no to people at my door. I have no problem saying no to people calling on my phone.
The issue is that we have a do not call list for one aggravation but not the other.
I guess we are reading these comments differently, because I am reading that many people feel there is not an effective way to stop these solicitors using conventional methods.
As I understand it, the national do not call list is funded by the marketers that have to pay for it. My intent with this proposal was to make it fund itself also, rather than increasing our taxes.
During my search, I found Massachusetts moved to enact this kind of regulation after three D2D salesmen gang-raped a lady at her home.
Do we have to wait for a similar tragedy to happen in IF before we take action?
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0 0 So if I don’t like this idea, I favor gang rape by door-to-door salesmen? Low blow, Joe. (Probably not your intent, but nevertheless.)
I note Parma, Ohio, cannot constitutionally ban political, religious, survey-takers, petiton-bearers, et cetera: (from their Web site:
“If I join the registry and post the sign decal, are there any uninvited persons who can still come to my door?
Yes, the Ordinance only addresses those individuals seeking funding. Individuals who wish to conduct polling or surveying, circulate petitions, engage in political or religious speech, or other similar conduct in which funds are not being sought are not prohibited by the Ordinance on the basis of constitutional grounds.”
I guess I just don’t get enough door-knockers to make this a concern for me.
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0 0 Ouch, no I definitely did not mean to make it sound that if you weren’t for the idea then you were supporting the other. I am sorry if you and anyone else read it that way. I just wanted to note a story I had read in my search, sorry the two distinct points ran together in that manner.
If Parma, OH has found they can only restrict commercial knockers, then that is great that we can learn from their mistakes.
I threw out the whole enchilada here, but I would find a do-not-knock list for just commercial purposes to be a great compromise.
Would the narrower ordinance be a more acceptable compromise to others?
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0 0 I believe a ‘do not knock’ list would not be practical because many of those sales knockers wouldn’t read the list or follow the instructions, many of them are just filling in some hours… I know of a sales director who hires young folks to knock doors all day, he tells them to knock no matter what… its that pushy-high-pressure sales pitch… and those folks don’t hear NO THANKS…
besides, if you have a pseudo-law of ‘do not knock’ lists, who would make sure it was being implemented, and what would be the punishment if they ignored the rule… also, alot of people come and go, move in and out, who will keep the list accurate… it sounds like alot of work, and would it be a volunteer enforcing the rules of ‘do not knock’?
I am sorry Joe, it just seems very impractical and no way to enforce… although it would be ideal…
just get a big mean sounding dog… or a recording of one, or do as the old guys did in “Second Hand Lion” a big shot-gun…
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0 0 Don’t even need a big dog. Our 11-pound dachshund has scared off her share of trick-or-treaters with her behind-the-door barking.
Walter: Why not see what he’s sellin’?
Hub: What the hell for?
Walter: Well what’s the good of having all that money if you’re never gonna spend it?
Garth: Could be the kid has a point.
Hub: Well. We’ll see what the man’s sellin’. THEN we’ll shoot him.
Garth: Good plan.
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0 0 I wish such a list were practical and enforceable but I doubt it.
Missionaries annoy me much more than door to door salesman as people selling their religion is much more annoying than people selling a product I could theoretically want. being racist when you shut the door on them.
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0 0 Guest_1948: Hopefully the bite of the significant fines would keep them in line.
Who would make sure it was being enforced? I think the city police enforce all ordinances, don’t they?
The list can be easily setup in a simple MS Access file. It would take all of 10 minutes to set up and train 3 employees on it (maybe less since they might already be familiar with Access).
How would it be maintained? Remember I said the list would be republished (printed) each month from the Access db by whatever city employees currently dispense permits.
And remember I said the period would be for two years. Even a one year period would do the job and still keep the db lean.
I do not understand why you think it would be ‘impractical’ and unenforceable? Does my explanation answer that adequately?
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0 0 I watch with interest without saying much most of the time; probably because I like to see what others are thinking without muddying the waters, so to speak; but I think I’ve got to say something here.
There are so many good things that this forum can and will accomplish with a little thought and effort, but a do not knock ordinance in the city? Get real! I mean, do you really want to live in a world where every little human activity in your neighborhood is regulated by a rule and a potential fine? I thought we all cheered when the old gray wall came down. Part of the beauty of this land is that we can travel amongst each other uninhibited and have a free exchange of ideas. How selfish have we become when we would prohibit someone from even approaching our homes that might have an idea to share, beyond our own, narrow thinking. Sure, I’ve sent the salesmen and the missionaries away when they came knocking; but I have also invited them in and invited them to eat with us on occasion, and honestly, we were all better for it.
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0 0 Honestly….I don’t think I would be “better off” with someone trying to sell me the latest Hoover Super-Sucker vaccum cleaner OR the latest Jehovah’s Witness pamphlet. I work my butt off 10 hours a day 5 days a week, the last thing I want is somebody knocking on my door trying to sell me something. I just want to relax with my family and enjoy my evening without being interrupted!
So, to answer your question Manybees….YES, I DO want to live in that world! We’re not talking about regulating every little “human activity”, we’re talking door to door salesmen/women.
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0 0 I agree with Chris67.
Do you agree or disagree with the idea of the national do not call list?
Please explain to me how this idea is so different then?
I see them as peas in the same pod.
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0 0 After thinking about this for a while, I have to say I don’t have any trouble with setting something like this up. Now whether or not there’s enough gumption in this group to take this beyond the discussion stage, I’ll wait and see. (And since I live in Sugar City, IF putting in such an ordinance won’t help me out, so don’t look at me to start anything.)I’m not bothered by door-to-door folks, but obviously, some people are.
I’d like to make one distinction, however, between a do-not-call list and a do-not-knock list. I can look out the window when someone knocks at the door, and if it’s someone I know I don’t want to talk to, I don’t have to open the door. I can filter without assistance. On a do-not-call list (which I admire, and which my wife has used this spring to get Dish Network to stop calling us) I have no way of knowing who is calling. I don’t have caller ID — because that’s an added expense that sellers can manipulate or get around anyway. So let’s call them peas and Chinese peas. Both peas, yes, but not in the same pod.
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0 0 I see your point. At my home, I cannot easily look out to see who it is. I do not recognize lots of people from my wife’s church, so i cannot easily disseminate a clean cut friendly church member call from a clean cut salesman.
As for actually doing this, it is really up to the city council or mayor. All we can do is discuss it. I suppose someone should email or ask a city council person or the mayor what they think of the idea.
Their perspective from the inside would be valuable.
Again, this is a voluntary list. It is not to prevent all door to door sales, it’s just creating a privacy screen for those who want it.
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0 0 I’m sure you all remember the days before caller ids when you rarely had any clue at all who you would be talking to, but just about everyone picked up the phone when it rang just because that’s what you did. Now the phone rings and we look first to see who’s calling and maybe, we answer… The door is just another portal to the outside. Who says you have to open, or even look for that matter? If your at home and you’re enjoying quality time after work or with family or friends or whatever, just treat the door as you would the phone. What’s with the old tradition of answering just because someone knocks anyway?
One more thing; if this ordainance is to be clock driven, ie. 7pm to 7am, do you seriously have that many people beating at your doors during those hours that they are a continual nusiance? I know for a fact that Mormon missionaries are finished working at 9pm each night and rarely if ever are they out tracting door to door in the evening. They are usually teaching appointments at those hours. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Jehovah’s Witnesses out late and only a couple of times has the vaccum cleaner salesman bothered in twenty-five years; oh, but there is that danged Avon rep.. I’d be on my wife’s good side if I started turning her in everytime she came after legal hours, yeah, right!!
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0 0 Ehhh, I disagree that you can just as easily screen your knockers as you can screen your calls with caller ID.
Callers don’t see my vehicle outside, hear my tv playing inside or my kids yelling someone’s at the door, or sense footsteps going around in the house.
It is easy for me to ignore the phone because the machine picks up after four rings, or i shut off the ringer.
I refuse to act like a scared hostage in my own home. I always answer the door and deal with the salespeople.
And yes, I get plenty of sales people knocking after 7pm, often even after 9pm.
It was the sales people at my door before noon on Sunday that fired me up to write this article.
It sounds like the problem varies. Perhaps other people are out of their homes in the evenings and do not notice the salespeople? Or maybe my neighborhood gets hit more?
Also, if the caller ID was the ultimate solution to telemarketers, why was the national do not call list needed?
Because telemarketers masked their identifying information, and because they keep calling over and over again, and because people got tired of being held hostage by these companies.
I’m tired of these sales people wasting my time.
The only alternative solutions I have read in this discussion are to threaten them with physical harm, sick a big dog on them, post a ‘no soliciting’ sign that will be ignored most of the time and makes my house ugly, post a sign suggesting a pornographic movie is being filmed in my home, or teaching my kids to be quiet and hide when a salesperson comes (even though there is no way to distinguish a salesperson from a legitimate visitor that I just don’t recognize).
And the people who suggested these things think these ideas are better than a simple ordinance, with voluntary participation, and paid for with industry fees?
Really?
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0 0 Honestly, I did not mean to suggest that you “hide” from these people; simply that you can be unavailable to them if you wish to be. I’ll admit; I would be irrate if solicitors were as big a distraction to my peace as they seem to be to some and I might even be onboard with the idea; but they’re not and I don’t see it. Am I fortunate enough to be living in an area of the community that they haven’t found? Is it a daily problem, or weekly, or less? You said the Sunday episode finally set you off but I think your original post suggested that weekends were exempted?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m by no means against the concept of limiting outsiders access into my private time and/or world, but more government regulation, whether it be local or otherwise, just grates on me and wonder if there isn’t another way that we can solve these problems without trading in freedoms?
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0 0 In my original article, I suggested only allowing solicitors between 7 AM and 7 PM in city limits, Monday - Friday. I think we should prohibit solicitors knocking on doors during the weekends.
“but more government regulation, whether it be local or otherwise, just grates on me and wonder if there isn’t another way that we can solve these problems without trading in freedoms?”
Okay, I do not see this as trading anyone’s freedom besides the marketer, and they are only exercising their freedom to annoy and take our money.
But okay, so you do not like the method because it involves a government solution.
I would be happy with a non-government solution also.
What then is another method to achieve this goal? I am all ears.
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0 0 I stand corrected. The reason your articles are good Joe, is because they are thought provoking. So I’m here thinking about how to restrict peddlers in IF without government regs and I remember seeing Green River Ordinance signs posted in different small towns when I was a kid. A search on the web was really enlightening,as borrowed from the Municipal Services and Research Center of Washington website:
Municipal ordinances which prohibit solicitors, peddlers, and itinerant merchants from calling on private residences for the purpose of peddling or soliciting without the request or the invitation of the occupant are sometimes referred to as “Green River” ordinances (from the case of Town of Green River, Wyoming v. Fuller Brush Co., 65 F.2d 112 (10th Cir. 1933)). “Green River” ordinances entirely prohibit and declare the practice of uninvited house-to-house canvassing to be a nuisance and misdemeanor punishable by fine and imprisonment (Rhyne, The Law of Local Government Operations, pp 495-496). Such ordinances have been upheld in the past by the United States Supreme Court. These types of ordinances have been ruled unconstitutional when they prohibit religious or noncommercial door-to-door solicitation. The U.S. Supreme Court on June 17, 2002 by a vote of 8-1, invalidated a Stratton, Ohio ordinance that required canvassers to register and obtain a permit from the mayor’s office before going door-to-door promoting any cause (Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc. v. Village of Stratton). The Court held that the ordinance violated the First Amendment as it applied to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.
Even though the 1951 United States Supreme Court decision has not been expressly overruled, more recent cases suggest that a total prohibition of door-to-door solicitation would be unconstitutional and unenforceable. In Project 80’s Inc. v. City of Pocatello, 942 F.2d 635 (9th Cir. 1991), a city ordinance prohibiting door-to-door solicitation unless the homeowner places a “solicitors welcome” sign on the house was ruled an unconstitutional infringement of free commercial speech. The court concluded that the ordinance did not provide the least restrictive alternative available to accomplish the legitimate governmental interests of protecting residential privacy and preventing crime. The Federal Court decision invalidating the Cities of Pocatello and Idaho Falls’ ordinances was the second time the Court had invalidated the ordinances. The 1991 decision was the result of a remand order by the United States Supreme Court of the earlier 1988 decision in Project 80’s Inc. v. City of Pocatello, 876 F.2d 711 (9th Cir. 1991), vacated and remanded, City of Idaho Falls v. Project 80’s Inc., 493 U.S. 1013, 110 S.Ct. 709, 107 L.Ed.2d 730 (1990). Similar decisions have been reached by the Ohio Court of Appeals in City of Tiffin v. Boor, 109 Ohio App. 3d 337, 672 NE2d 200 (Ohio Ap. 1996), the Oregon Supreme Court in City of Hillsboro v. Purcell, 306 Or 547, 761 P.2d 510 (Ore., 1988) and an Illinois Federal District Court in Green v. Village of Schaumburg, 676 F.Supp. 870 (ND Ill., 1988).
Apparently it would be fairly easy to do a ‘do not knock list’ for commercial solicitors in the city, but not so for anything else. Would that sufficiently accomplish your goal?
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0 0 wow.there it is
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0 0 Wow, indeed. Great research, manybees.
A do-not-knock list / green river ordinance just for commercial knockers would be plenty for me to be happy. I can understand the first amendment issues related to the other activities.
Am I being naive in thinking this db could be run simply in Access? The only fields would need to be date entered (to calculate date expired from list), name, and address. Would more fields be needed? I don’t think even a phone number would be needed.
The city hall could have a simple form to fill out, and the website could have a simple form to submit.
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0 0 Joe -
You are speaking my language. Your above-mentioned proposal sounds sweet to my ears (looks like candy to my eyes - maybe that’s a better analogy considering yours is a written, not spoken, opinion).
My very own friends know better than to drop by unannounced. It is not because I have secrets to hide and must be pre-warned so I may shuffle my secrets under the rug or wherever (but secrets or not isn’t the point - rudely dropping in on somebody IS, in my opinion)- it is SIMPLY because my home is my place where I AM allowed to exist un-interrupted.
While @ work I must answer the phone, attend to walk-ins, drop everything I’m doing to take care of others who come to me for interaction. That is my job and I enjoy it. As a JOB. I do not like to take aspects of my job home. When I am at home I do not care to be interuppted. Period.
Story. It’s pretty short, I promise.
When we were new to Idaho an LDS bishop (who we didn’t know) happened to stop by for a chat. When he did not get an answer at the front door he came around to the back! He walked THROUGH the back gate as if he lived there too!
I was absolutely mind-numbed over that.
We were in our hot tub (the one we don’t have anymore) and it just so happens that my young nephew and his friends were over, so we were not naked in the hot tub (we have no kids so we normally hot tubbed au natural).
If this silly ninney-headed bishop had showed up most other days - he would have walked around back and been greeted by us - naked. And yes I am the type who would have stood up bold in all my nekkid glory and asked “Why are you in my back yard without permission?”
As it was, I still stood and asked the question, but as you might imagine, as I was wearing shorts and a bathing top - some of the impact was most definetly lost.
I find it offensive if solicitors and church people and yes even family and friends stop by my home without calling first. Friends and family don’t disrespect me by doing that - nor do I do it to them - but solicitors and church people do. It is as if they know you’re “trapped” - what can you do, run home?
I like your proposal, Joe. I’d vote for it.
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0 0 I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I live on the west side of Idaho Falls and I cannot recall the last time I had a someone come knocking at my door who I didn’t know. I’m just surprised Joe and you others have so many solicitors/mormons knocking on their doors that it has become such a problem. I have never had a some strange mormon bishop come to my home, ever. Do you guys have some kind of mark on your homes? lol
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0 0 The problem is a city ordinance/law is only followed by some salespeople. The really annoying ones from California who show up every few weeks in big vans in Poky and IF are here and gone before the city and police can respond to complaints. They are told to get a business license, warned, cited, etc. They disappear before many can be caught. About 10 years ago I witnessed a handful of them dealing pot at night and selling cleaning products by day, all out of their nice white vans with CA plates. They are also really rude and pushy trying to get into people’s houses. Sometimes they are too slippery for the police. This is where I vote to taser repeat offenders straight from your front door!
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0 0 Amen!
That is a problem. This is where it would become a law enforcement issue, and why it would be critical for homeowners try to collect as much sales literature, business cards, etc.
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0 0 I find it interesting that people feel a need to have a “do-not knock” list. With my experience I have had JW’s, Mormons, vacuum reps and frozen meat sellers come to my door and I tell them I’m not interested and that it that.
They don’t harrass me to get in. How hard is it to say “no thank you and have a nice day”? Why would someone think that we need regulation to keep people from knocking at our door?
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0 0 NufSaid, I can appreciate that, but I have to ask how you deal with telemarketers?
Same way, just keep saying no to all of the phone calls? Or have you done anything to try stopping the calls?
I see it as the same issue. I can say no all day each time, but I get tired of being sold all the time at my door on my property.
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0 0 The other night I was sitting on the couch looking through an outdoor gear catalog when somebody knocked on my window right behind me. This woke up my dog who was on the other chair. He’s a large golden retriever with an intimidating bark. All bark & no bite. He loves people.
So I go to the door and there are a couple young fellows. I open the door to see what they want. The dog comes out to say hi, like he always does. One dude jumps back and says he was once bitten by a golden, etc.
They were selling some sort of carpet shampoo & wanted to show me how it worked. No thanks, I’ve only got one rug. They went along their merry way.
I’m sure the dog “helped” un-nerve the guy as well.
Maybe I’ll have to start telling salesmen he’s unfriendly and I can’t open the door…….
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0 0 as I see it, do not call and do not knock is way different.
The difference is in the medium used.
Telephones, cell phones and electronic communcation is not tangable, you can’t touch the airwaves, so just turn off the ringer or unplug the phone and you don’t know if anyone is calling and bugging you.
The front door or window of your home is physical, people are standing there banging, no way to unplug the door or put on a silencer.
So to answer your question Joe, do not call vs. do not knock are very different. The solutions will have to be very different as well and maybe a little creativity. Why not find your own solution within the law of course.
Maybe put an electric fence around your property with an eye and brain central intelligent system (must be programed to know the difference based on the information the owner of the home plugs in) and if it is a strange stranger then they get an electric stun/shock, if it is a friendly welcomed visitor then no stun/shock.
That way you, the owner, get to be in control of who knocks and who doesn’t. The only way to know if unwelcomed unfriendly knocks are attempted is the wailing of pain from the electric stun/shock.
Unless of course there is a city ordinance that prohibits an electric fence around your property. And, that ordinance might not be too far off, after all if someone wants to put in a do not know ordinance, then they might put in a do not shock ordinance, and then a do not cry outloud ordinance, and a do not whine ordinance, and a do not tattle-tail ordinance, and a do not complaine about a do not knock ordinance, which could lead to a do not live happily ordinance and do not try to solve your own problems ordinance. And this could lead to…
Cheers! 
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0 0 Okeydokey, I see your point but I disagree.
Why should you be forced to unplug your phone, or turn your ringer off? It is your phone. Your suggestion is a variant on the ‘run and hide’ idea, and that is wrong. This is why DNC was needed.
“..put an electric fence around your property with an eye and brain central intelligent system”
Okeydokey, this goes along with those other ideas (i.e. hang a sign suggesting a porn movie is being filmed inside) which do not seem to be better than a simple city ordinance and a voluntary citizen registration.
I’m fairly certain that barbed wire, razor wire, concertina wire, and electric fences are prohibited on residences in the city.
This suggestion would have almost no cost to the city, hardly any labor, could be a small revenue generator for both citizens and the city (in the way of fines), and could help increase homeowner privacy and happiness.
It would not even be mandatory for citizen residents to register! The only burden would be on the marketing / sales companies.
Why is this suggestion viewed as whining?
A person suggests a minor thing to solve a mid-sized problem, and some people blow it all out of proportion, claiming slippery slides to communism, and suggesting all sorts of ridiculous alternatives.
I guess I am the one out on the fringe with this idea then. I don’t understand how I got here on this simple idea, but here I am on the fringe somehow.
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0 0 Actually Joe, I have a little bit of fun with the telemarketers on the phone and quite enjoy their calls when I get them. I simply tell them no thanks. If they persist, then I try to sell them something and get their personal information. They get off the phone pretty quick.
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0 0 I can appreciate that NufSaid; I just don’t want to spend my time doing that.
One other thing nobody has mentioned, maybe the marketing companies like communities to enact Green River ordinances?
I have heard telemarketing companies actually like the DNC list because it helps them eliminate calling people who never buy anyways.
This DNK ordinance proposal would help them save time by not going to homes where people never buy anyways.
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0 0 I guess I just don’t buy the idea that we need an ordinance or municipal/state intervention every time there’s an inconvenience in our lives.
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0 0 I think after reading all of the comments I tend to agree with Joe on this one. There should be a list of people who don’t want to be bothered at home. They would be given a sticker to place on their front door so there would be no mistaking whether or not they are on the list, and no need to keep getting updated lists. For those people who aren’t bothered by uninvited door knockers, they don’t need to sign up for the list. The ones who are bothered by it can be left alone. What’s wrong with that?
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0 0 Brian: you make a great point, and there is a gray area of relying too much on government to take care of our own problems.
When would you agree an ordinance is needed?
I think one is needed when a problem becomes rampant or larger than individuals can easily take care of it.
In my case, where salespeople come by after 9pm and before noon on Sundays, I’ve reached that point.
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0 0 ok, I was a bit over-the-top with sarcasm, I was just trying to make the point Brian Davidson said, why have a city ordinance for every inconvience.
Have the door knockers continually knocked after 9pm and on Sunday morning?
I also see it as just an annoyance, and I also see driving on 17th street an annoyance, but I can’t argue that a city ordinance is the answer.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but keep things in context, if we go running to the city officials for every little annoyance where is your sense of pride?
It just sounds like whining to me that’s all.
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0 0 How often has that happened, Joe? For me and mine, I can count on two fingers the (Saturday) afternoons we’ve had salesmen come to the door in the past year. And though we enjoy the no-call list, even before it was in place, we got maybe seven or eight sales calls a year. Not a big nuisance in my book.
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0 0 I think one is needed when a problem becomes rampant or larger than individuals can easily take care of it. In my case, where salespeople come by after 9pm and before noon on Sundays, I’ve reached that point.
If “after 9pm and before noon on Sundays” is the real problem, then your DNK list is a tremendous amount of bureaucracy, Joe (and given that turnover in many IF neighborhoods can be 20%+ over two years, it *would* be more difficult to administer than a do-not-call list).
An ordinance establishing a curfew on door-to-door sales would likely be more effective for the problem you identified.
BTW - during June and early July, it stays light until close to 10:00 pm. During last year’s campaign, I found that most people didn’t mind my door-knocking as long as it was light out.
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0 0 Anonymous there is a city ordinance against electric fencecs in IF, I had trouble early 90,s law was on books then.
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I thought putting a no solicitation sign meant that if you were then solicited, the solictor broke the law. I don’t think a do not knock list would be successful in IF. It would be fought tooth and nail by the LDS Church and by political parties.