Is Low Pay Creating a Local Law Enforcement Crisis?
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Editor’s Note: This originally appeared as comment #2 in another discussion thread. I felt it warranted its own discussion thread, because the issues raised are very serious for our local safety. If the guest commenter wants to register, I can change authorship to that person.
This is both about the Idaho Falls Police department and the Bonneville County Sheriff’s office and is not meant to be negative to either organization or officers themselves but rather to the powers that be in city hall and the county commissioners office.
Over the last few months there have been numerous news articles on the TV sites and the Post Register about the problems the Bonneville County Sheriff’s office is having in recruiting and then retaining officers due to the poor pay. Numerous officers have quit to leave and go elsewhere including to the IFPD which pays starting out $4.00 an hour higher and increases faster beyond that. Most recently the BCSO lost a highly trained K-9 officer to the Boise police department. The cost of losing this officer once you consider standard replacement costs and then all the experience and training he has received is easily $100,000. The BCSO is bleeding money in terms of costs related to hiring and training officers (its estimated that it costs around $40,000 to hire and train a new officer) and then there are the costs related to overtime as the remaining officers have to work extra shifts to cover the manpower loss.
Much has been said about how the IFPD is constantly raiding the BCSO for officers and this is true. No less than three deputies have been hired away from the BCSO in the last year alone and several more could be hired in the coming months. What hasn’t been said though is why these openings are there. While the IFPD certainly pays much better than the BCSO, the IFPD ranks in the 20’s statewide in terms of overall pay despite being the 3rd largest department in the state (1). So while the IFPD certainly looks better than the BCSO in terms of pay its like saying it looks better from the inside of toilet bowl as compared to the inside of a sewer. In the last few years the IFPD has lost four officers who have gone to work at higher paying government law enforcement related jobs, one officer to the Boise PD, one officer to a higher paying accounting job, and a few others to regular attrition. The only reason you don’t hear about the crisis at the IFPD so much is that the IFPD is replacing them them with BCSO officers. But that well will run dry soon.
Idaho already suffers statewide in terms of attracting law enforcement officers as it has the worst retirement policy of any surrounding state. Most states in the US copy the military and offer 20 year retirements to law enforcement officers. Idaho on the other hand offers a rule of 80 before your eligible to retire and insurance restrictions during that usually push the age even higher meaning you cops nearing 60 still working streets. Most Idaho officers can count on working a minimum of 30 years just to receive a comparable retirement to a 20 year officer from Utah. Now couple this downside with the poor pay at our two local agencies and its getting harder and harder to attract new candidates. Just ten years ago the IFPD could expect 300 candidates during its annual testing cycle. Now they are happy if they get 40. And those 40 usually have a lot of undesirables including at least one person who showed up drunk to the testing.
The BCSO and IFPD are powerless to fix the problems with the state retirement but they can at least fix the pay scales and bring their departments into line with other departments of similar size in the state. They must do this if they wish to stay competitive with Boise and other well paying agencies within the state.
(1) Footnote. Worth mentioning is a wage survey the City of Idaho Falls leaders did four to five years ago to justify not giving a raise to IFPD officers. They compared the wages of IFPD officers to those of similar size departments in a 300 mile radius. The survey found the wages roughly equivalent. What was interesting and immediately noticed by many officers was that the wage used for an IFPD officer was that of a 3 year veteran (several steps up on the pay scale) and the wages of everyone else were beginning wages.
I’d like to reiterate that I don’t mean anything negative at all to the men and women currently working for the BCSO and IFPD. There are a lot of fine officers in both organizations and our community needs to take steps to keep them. We can’t afford to lose any more good officers and we need to make sure we keep attracting the best candidates possible.
What do you think?
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Comments
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0 I believe that one potential solution for at least some of this problem is to go Metro. In other words, have both departments combine, and have one department that serves both city and county. It has been talked about over the years, but never seriously considered. By doing this, we eliminate at least the salaries of a few of the top administrators in the City Dept. That by itself is quite a savings. You also end the problem of one department stealing the officers of another, and any other problems or tension that may exist between the two departments now (assuming there are any.) There really is no easy answer for the problem that the county is having now. And if you think Bonneville County is having trouble think about all of the much smaller counties in Eastern Idaho! They have been putting up with this problem forever! Small counties like Custer, Lemhi, Jefferson, Butte, the list goes on and on. They have been hiring deputies, paying for initial training through the POST Academy and then later watching those now experienced officers head off to other, higher paying departments all over the state. No easy solution for most of these small counties. The money to pay these guys well is either there or its not. But Bonneville is larger, and has a relatively large city within — Idaho Falls. So there is an opportunity here, and it should be taken advantage of. The City and County need to merge into one “Metro” Law Enforcement Agency. Say goodbye to the city Chief of Police and about 2 or 3 of his highest paid “administrators,” who I promise you, aren’t doing anything anyway, and have already out stayed their welcome and usefulness. Just my thoughts on the subject.
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0 0 Oh — and Ronin Rich; When Stommel talks about dollar amounts that are set by the State I believe he is talking about the retirement system. The retirement is strictly set up by the State. The actual hourly wage that the Deputies get paid is set by the County Commission and is dependant upon the tax base. If Idaho Falls would go Metro and the state was able to provide a decent 20 year retirement system (like many other states) you would see some serious improvement in the quality of officers and a reduction in Law Enforcement related problems in general — city and county.
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0 0 Going metro might eliminate some dead wood at the top of both departments and save the city / county money but it would do nothing for officer’s salaries. Have no doubt that the powers that be would not funnel these savings into pay raises.
The real problem with county wages goes back about ten years to the Bill Shurtleff era. He became county commissioner and immediately froze the wages of all employees for several years along with decimating their benefits. Allegedly there was a fiscal crisis which I don’t know enough about to say if it was true or not. Regardless, after four years of wage freeze the sheriff’s departments salaries seriously lagged behind and have never caught up.
The IFPD wages lag because for the entirety of the Mayor Milam era she and the city council refused to view the IFPD as its own entity and rather lumped them into the same class as garbage men and flower planters. Whatever raise they got the police got. Curiously the fire department and electrical department are classified seperately. Meanwhile other departments recognizing the serious competition for good law enforcement officers started escalating the pay of their police to be competitive. So the IFPD went from being one of the top paying departments in the state in the 90’s to where it is now, down in the 20’s.
As I mentioned county benefits are poor ever since the Shurtleff era with high deductibles and minimal coverage. City benefits on the other hand are pretty good and the employee pays nothing out of their checks for it. City leaders have used this to justify not handing out very large cost of living raises each year which no doubt has some merit. Last year the COL raise was 1.4% and city leaders justified this by claiming an huge increase in insurance costs. But there is some concern amongst employees that someone is getting kickbacks from the insurance companies because the city refuses and has refused for years to search for competitive insurance. And an employee with no dependents costs the city the same as an employee with eight dependents. This is great for the employee with a wife and six kids but not so much for employee who is unmarried with no kids or the employee whose kids have grown and gone. Most employers and insurance companies offer flexible insurance plans depending on the number of dependents being covered instead of one size fits all plans like the city is taking.
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0 0 The County has been behind in pay dating back a lot farther than 10 years (Bill Shurtleff era) I know that the county was substantially behind the city in pay 23 years ago! The Bill Shurtleff era didn’t help, but county deputies have never been paid even decently as far as I know. In an metro department, it may be possible to get wages increased not only because of the savings that would be realized from not duplicating some positions and services, but it would then be a good time to take a fresh look at the entire program and charge the city of Idaho Falls and the county (combined) what the service is actually worth. I am not an expert on this though. I just know that something must be done or we will keep spending a dollar to save a dime — as both the city and the county are now doing by hiring and training new officers for other, better paying agancies.
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0 0 Sounds like some of our past leadership and policies have been penny-wise and ultimately pound-foolish. The continuing saga of Idaho ideology.
Could a combined metro police force really work? What are some hurdles and implications? Would a metro force really save any money?
There are no other metro police forces in Idaho, are there?
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0 0 Another thing, can it really be called Metro when 80% of our county is out along one lone rural highway?
Could Bonneville county be split, or swap land with other counties to make our coverage more logical?
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0 0 Joe, Not being a cop I might be wrong about this. But, Idaho Falls is a metro statistical area. So why couldn’t metro be where the greatest number of area residents live?
Maybe instead of just limiting the “metro” concept to Bonneville County, maybe the Jefferson County and northern Bingham County should be included as well. Then truly that would be a metro effort.
If this sounds like a unpractical idea, it should prove to that I don’t work in Law Enforcement.
However, I have great respect for those who do and would LOVE to see a new, bigger central building house law enforcement and one fire station, as is being discussed.
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0 0 The IFPD just raided the Sheriff’s office again. Deputy Steele will become Officer Steele later this month. While this doesn’t hurt financially as bad losing K-9 Deputy Schiffler to the Boise PD its still a huge financial cost to the county. Its estimated that it takes about $50,000 to hire and train a new officer. Then consider all the salary and time that was taken to train a lost cop and that figure skyrockets which is why Schiffler’s loss costs so much since K-9 officers receive a lot of training.
Rumor has it that the Sheriff’s office is so desperate at this point for bodies they are going back to prior tests and now looking at candidates they initially rejected.
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0 0 If this is true, I think it is time for our community to ask if BCSO low wages are adversely affecting Bonneville County safety?
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0 0 I think that to say “The IFPD just raided the Sheriff’s office” is absolutely ridiculous. The IFPD didn’t “raid” anything. They pay better, period. It’s not their fault. They have job openings, and look for qualified applicants in a way that is in the best interest of the city. If there is a problem in the county, then the county needs to fix it. If they can’t do the math, and realize that they are simply a training ground for other, better paying departments — and that they need to make a capital investment upfront — an investment in their PEOPLE — then the hec with them. I don’t know the Deputy who is leaving, but he likely has a family to feed. Who can blame him? And to the question that Joe asks: Are “BCSO low wages adversely affecting Bonneville County safety?” The answer has to be YES, if manpower is in fact low enough that men are stretched to cover the county, and working many hours of overtime to do it. And if it is true — that they are even looking to hire people they would have otherwise rejected, we have to assume that the quality of Deputy is slipping. I don’t care either way — I am just tired of the way it’s being put. Conjures up mental images of Roger Smart sneaking around the hallways enticing Deputies to leave. He’s too busy smoking cigarettes, counting guns in the evidence room and trying to remember where he parked to do that.
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0 0 Everybody is hitting the nail on the head here. At any one time there is an average of only 4 deputies on duty in Bonneville County. This is ridiculous. The Commissioners and the Sheriff have been tightwads and somebody is going to get hurt because of it…either a deputy or a victim needing help. The Sheriff is making good money on jail commissary and cable TV dues. He ought to put some money into salary increases to keep people. I don’t blame Steele, Kienlen, or any of those folks for going with IFPD. Money talks…especially when you have to put up with crooks and b.s. from the public that is not deserved (at least sometimes). Why not get paid more if you have to take flack and get no support?
The idea of going metro is a good one. Merging the departments would be good for everybody and save money on personnel….so that we could pay those that we have more to stay on!
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0 0 Metro is the way to go. Why have a Sheriff AND a City Chief of Police? How much do those two salaries equal when combined? You have one dispatch center — dispatching for both. You have one jail, used by both. You send city officers out into the county when needed anyway. They share a building. Park in the same lot. Same State retirement system. Same training academy. The only difference really is that county officers wear a county patch and make nickles, and the city offciers wear a city patch and make dimes. You could start two (maybe 3) new Deputies, on what the Chief is making now. It might even force some retirements that, (trust me on this one) NEED to take place but won’t. The reason for this is that being a Police Captain on the City Police Department is like collecting welfare, but with nice clothes. Very, very hard to leave. Would you leave if all you had to do was show up a few hours a day, have a pulse and drink coffee — AND be paid about $40 an hour to do it? You can’t get those tired old has-beens to leave without dragging them out the back door kicking and screaming. I’m not kidding.
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0 0 I wrote the original article and the subsequent post today about IFPD “raiding” the BCSO again. Hard to tell since I’m anonymous but Joe can verify if anyone doubts.
My raid comment wasn’t meant negatively against the IFPD. Its smart of them to take an already trained officer like Steele. Kudos. I was just trying to show that county continues to bleed.
But I have to disagree with all the Metro comments. All that will do is put all law enforcement under the authority of the sheriff and county commisioners. Meaning that now everyone will get paid like the county officers do. This will just make things worse. Don’t believe for a second that any money saved will go towards employees salaries - when in the history of the world has a company taken savings and improved the lot of their employees? I think some of the former officers posting in this thread are right in some aspects about an IFPD captaincy being a slack job that no one wants to quit but their statements are colored by the fact that they have a lot of personal animosity towards some of these captains like Captain Ra Ra and just want to see him bite the dust.
Also going metro would remove any control the city of Idaho Falls has over the police. The city would now be covered at the whim of the Sheriff. Witness all the infighting that has gone on in the last few years with the city of Ammon and the Sheriff’s department and imagine that times ten which is what you would get if IF went metro.
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0 0 Another problem the county has is the assanine policy the sheriff has about deputies coming from the jail to patrol. Many a person has taken a jail job just to get their foot in the door while their ultimate goal is to work as a street cop. They then put in many good years of service in the jail and finally get their chance to work the streets. Their reward is that they must start ALL OVER ON THE PAY SCALE. I know several jail deputies who came to the patrol division of the sheriff’s department and had to take severe pay cuts to do so. Now the IFPD comes a calling and offers them four dollars an hour more. Or IFPD hires them away from the jail because the jail deputy can’t afford to take the pay cut to work as a patrol deputy. Perhaps if the county would allow jail deputies to keep their pay upon becoming a patrol deputy they would stay with the SO. Several current IFPD officers / former BCSO deputies would have gladly stayed with the county if they could have kept their jail pay.
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0 0 Has any citizen e-mailed/called the county commissioners to tell them the BCSO Deputies aren’t being paid enough? I know that probably sounds rather dumb, but I just wonder what pressure of many, many e-mails/calls would do?
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0 0 I’ve been pouring over the Kimball Mason documents as a favor to a local cop (trying to clear a smear against him), and in the course of it I’ve been reading officer reports from arrest scenes.
I’ve got to say these cops are underpaid for the dangerous work they do.
Imagine working at your office, getting into a disagreement with a drunk person, then later finding they had a loaded .357 in reach the entire time that you didn’t know about.
Imagine having to go to a rape scene, where the rape victim is sobbing and in that whole victim state, you feel bad but you also have to try getting information and collecting evidence to pursue the bad guy.
Imagine if in your workplace gunshots rang out occasionally, and you had to search around to find the source.
Cops’ jobs are not normal jobs, and I sincerely believe they are underpaid for the work they do.
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0 0 I appreciate Joe’s comment above. I also believe MOST in law enforcement are underpaid.
I haven’t seen the pay scale, but my understanding is those at the top who are making decision, a different kind of pressure, are well paid. The question is how often do they have to make life and death decisions to justify their salaries?
So let me rephrase what I just wrote and say I think the FRONTLINE OFFICERS are very underpaid for the work that they do.
That being said, in no way am I taking away from what the officers with my following remarks or the risky populations with which they deal. But I think it is myopic to think law enforcement is the only people “at risk” from those in society who make life more dangerous for all of us.
Have you ever worked in a hospital E.R. or O.R. when some of these people have been transported by law enforcement/paramedics for medical care? Have you ever had to wonder if the person who spit on you had an infectious disease (and I don’t mean only HIV, usually a form of Hepatitis or other infectious disease would be more common)?
Have you had to tolerate 12 or more hours of someone calling you all sorts of names and trying to hurt you in any way possible, because you were caring for him/her as s/he came down from his drug high?
How many drunk or stoned people have you had to resuscitate only to have them curse at you, try to bite and kick you and call you all sorts of names instead of saying, “Thanks for saving my life?”
How many times have you had to call Child Protective Services as you knew this person wasn’t safe to be providing care for a child? You think that doesn’t grate on medical, nursing and other healthcare professionals? Think again.
Have you ever wondered if you wondered if you are a carrier of infectious diseases and exposing those in your own home due to your work?
My understanding is most officers work 8 hr. shifts. Do you know how many consecutive hrs. most E.R. docs and nurses work? Or the surgical staff that can’t say “no, my shift is over, that surgery will have to wait until the next shift is totally here,” when someone is rolled in the E.R. with a gunshot wound, or head injury that needs immediate surgery?
And while we’re getting real here about other exposed to danger, let’s talk about those who are brave enough to be the janitors and custodial staff at jails, hotels, hospitals, bars, restaurants and Convenience Stores among many other places. From chunks of broken glass to whatever bodily fluids ended up in the trash, or even disposed of facial tissue etc., I believe many of these workers are daily exposed to risks that those who have desk jobs are not. Hotel housekeeping and food servers can be at risk as well.
What about school teachers who try to help the child who clearly has skin abrasions that clearly look infected and the other kids are ostracizing the child. So the dedicated teacher tries to go the extra mile and be a friend. What about the school teacher who has to notify all the other students parents their kids have been exposed to lice? Doesn’t that teacher have to do the lice treatment as well?
Grocery store clerks, at C Stores working the swing shift, have a job I could never do. It’s not only cops and the E.R. staff who have to deal with drunks or those who may attempt a burgulary to get high again.
These clerks are also exposed to many of the same risks as law enforcement, yet do many of them have a gun to “blast” the person out of the store in which s/he is working?
Then we have paramedics and firefighters that go into all sorts of awful situations. From scooping up the injured with all sorts of bodily fluids exposing them to unknown diseases to having to rescue places which may be infested and infected with all sorts of “creatures” great and small etc. Plus, risking their lives to get people out of burning buildings.
What about the hazmat people who have to clean up after meth labs have been shut down? Are those people free from risk to their own safety, due to the illegal activities of others?
Some may say that in the stories I’ve mentioned the unsavory characters haven’t posed a direct threat like with a gun. I would say why are E.R.’s having to have armed security guards, if you really believe that to be true?
I personally know a physician who caries what is currently an inactive lesion thanks to the kid who exposed that doctor to T.B. Yes, in 2007, T.B. and other diseases are still around, which is why hospital workers have to have (mandatory) the skin test to check for TB. If this physician ever becomes “active,” well fortunately now there is a year long treatment to cure TB. But, the doctor will not be allowed to practice medicine.
And if you keep up on regional news, you’ll know that one week ago a homeless man living in the cab of his former commercial carrier truck, walked into St. Mark’s Hospital E.R. in Salt Lake City with a loaded gun. He never threatened the armed deputy posted immediately inside the door at St. Mark’s. Rather, it wasn’t until he was called back into the room he pulled his weapon and threatened the nurse carring for him.
St. Mark’s isn’t known for getting “street people” as much as some of the other local hospitals. Yet, this nurse had experienced enough similar situations that he contained the situation within 2 minutes.
Oh, then there’s that choice little situation where rival gangs both show up at an E.R. after members of their own gangs have been shot. If you honestly believe the medical and nursing staff are safer than the arresting officer from gangs, I suggest you volunteer your time at a hospital most likely to get the most serious traumas and see how safe you feel. Have you ever been in a locked down ever, given the risks? I have.
It’s true that every group I’ve mentioned and many more I haven’t depend on law enforcement to ultimately protect them from the criminals.
And it’s mostly true that law enforcement officers usually are the ones who have the first line contact with criminals carrying weapons or who have infections or other medical conditions that put others at risk.
So since the theme here is about law enforcement, I will say I agree the frontline officer is under paid and faces many risks.
Nonetheless, I cannot continue to read on Idaho Fallz.Com how ONLY law enforcement officers are those at risk from criminals on a daily basis. I have to make the point that other workers are “at risk” from criminals as well.
I’m just not sure the average person appreciates the risk as others face compared to law enforcement officers.
I believe it was FeelinLucky who questioned the value of an officer taking a car home at night. Do any of the other groups mentioned get a “perk” like that?
Don’t tell me that they are all paid for their work, as I know far too many cases where physicians have been paid zero for after hours to days of care of certain patients. And never believe a physician hasn’t been threatened at gunpoint - that is simply naive.
I appreciate all law enforcement and their dedication for their jobs. They chose to put themselves in daily contact with criminals, and the risks that brings.
I saw the ad in today’s PR advertising open positions at IFPD. Perhaps it was the exam law enforcement officers had to take that was offered. Given the discussions and insight offered here, I wondered how many would even bother applying.
Yet, there are those who want to be in law enforcement and have dreamed of doing that all of their lives. Will the risks outweight the benefits this time? I don’t know.
What I do know is I’m certainly grateful for those who put on their uniform and deal with what comes their way during their shift.
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0 0 But going back to the premise, its not whether police deserve better pay but whether or not local police NEED better pay to stay competitive with the other much better paying agencies around the state.
IFPD did recently hire a Caldwell PD officer but that is rare as the attrition usually goes the other way. And IFPD did just hire yet another Bonneville county deputy. Every time the IFPD or BCSO has to replace an officer you can figure its going to cost at least $50,000 in tax payer money once you account for the time interviewing, the salary of the training officer, the salary of the new officer while he / she is at the academy, and the overtime as other officers have to cover an empty position. That cost increases dramatically if its a highly specialized officer like the K-9 officer the BCSO recently lost.
And as was said in some thread around here concerning the car per officer program - this is a perk but its one that actually saves the city money as cars last three times as long and have a fraction of the maintenance costs now that they used to when cars ran 24 hrs a day, seven days a week. Plus there are a lot of other benefits as described in that thread. So the city, the officer, and the taxpayer all benefit.
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0 0 I don’t disagree with you, Anonymous. All I’m saying is for about a year or more I’ve read a lot on this site about the risks IFPC (and BCSO) deputies face.
I believe what others have written. I trust those authors and the facts they’ve relayed. I never wanted to be a law enforcement officer, so I take my hat off to those who do.
While you raise a superb point about the cost of training more officers when one leaves, I guess my question is why are people even taking the entrance exam knowing where the pay scale is now for the more jr. officers?
When I’ve seen some of the payscale sections I’ve seen, they look pretty good for the amount of time it has taken the officer to make it on the force compared to other professions.
I’ll always be an advocate of trying to pay frontline officers and those who make the most field decisions (probably Srgts. etc.) more money. It’s best to retain good people, if possible.
I also know law enforcement officers are people and like many others, not everything in their lives or work is about the bottom line paycheck. Some would rather stay in an area with family members and other “side businesses” etc. and receive what they receive as their salary. I’m sure every officer would like to make more for every 8 hrs. s/he works/day.
But, I’m also going to start adding comments on every cop thread about others who are at risk too. We’ve focused on the PD for over a year.
I respect officers and am glad people want to be cops. I also know the risks others face by, involuntarily, by the work they do when criminals come to their workplace. It’s time those people had recognition for what they did.
When I wrote my earlier comment, I didn’t know about the Hazmat team getting called out today. So perhasp we should focus on the Hazmat people and how much they make. Don’t tell me their work isn’t dangerous, the early hazmat employees who cleaned up the meth manufacturing plants are having all sorts of medical problems now - and even then.
Ultimately, there are a lot of brave and good people who put themselves at risk to keep peace in our society. I just wonder sometimes if people really understand how much risk those, other than law enforcement officers who do carry a service weapon, encounter at times?
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0 0 OK4NOW, I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Dr’s working and not getting paid…this is not often the case, just ask my insurance. A friend of mine started at a local hospital as an entry level Dr and he was told his base salary, if he saw the minimum amount of patients, would be $110,00 a year. I know he went to a lot of school and sacfrificed but that is a lot of money any way you look at it. If he gives a little freebee back to the community I don’t think he’s out much. Officers that take their cars home and are allowed to drive them around the city are supressing crime and encouraging safer driving just by their presence. They also stop and respond to many accidents and help fellow officers in need all of the time. When is the last time you saw a janitor stop and clean up something on the side of the road? One last thing, BCSO works 4 - 12 hour shifts and IFPD works 4 - 10 hour shifts a week.
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0 0 Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office cops work 8 hours longer each week AND get paid $4 an hour less than city cops?!?!
They are at least getting time and a half for those extra 8 hours I hope.
Still, mandatory overtime is rough, and makes the job much less appealing.
It’s sounding more and more like the BCSO needs to tidy their house.
Who really is in charge of BCSO salaries? Is it the 3 county commissioners, or the state or public vote or ?
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0 0 I didn’t clearify very well, BCSO works 12 hours a day, 4 days on and 4 days off. IFPD works 10 hours a day, 4 days on and 3 days off. Also, I noticed a typo in my first response…it should be 110,000 a year. I’m not use to writing so many zeros behind a salary.
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0 0 I believe that the Deputies salaries are all set by the County Commissioners. The Sheriff submits a budget each year, and likely requests pay raises. The Commissioners say no. It’s a shame that they do not see the long term benefits and potential cost advatntages. It’s kind of like the City and their “take a car home” program. On the surface you hear about it and cringe. But once you look at it with reason, and look at the numbers, you start to see that it really is a cost effective program. If the County could retain their people, would they save enough money to cover the pay raises? Would they begin to attract other, more qualified people, instead of being a “training ground” that simply pays to train people for other Departments that pay more. And one of the primary things to remember about this issue with Bonneville County is that this is nothing new. This problem has been around for 20 years.
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0 0 B.,
Thanks for the info. and your POV.
I think it depends on which side one is working, or looking, how things are clarified. Discussions are always a good place to learn more. So I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
I respect your different POV. I just don’t agree with it, given my side of the fence.
I wish I were ahead of myself, but unfortunately, I’m not.
Guaranteed physician contracts, for a LIMITED time, are standard to recruit physicians. But, not after a certain length of time except in some specialties where there are far too few specialists for the need.
Besides, I’ve watched the pay scale decrease at least 10% yearly from some of the guaranteed contracts, again depending on the specialty. When hundreds to thousands of graduating medical students are not entering specialties that pay lower reimbursements and require more time with patients and instead are entering those specialties that pay the most with the least amount of patient contact, a real crisis only increases.
And actually, that crisis in healthcare does roll over into what law enforcement officers have to deal with daily or weekly. How many chronically mentally ill patients does the average officer have to deal with now/week or month compared to even 10 years ago? In some ways, law enforcement officers are serving as a “Safety Net” for some citizens. I might be wrong, but I doubt the average officer begins a career in law enforcement to dealy with the chronically mentally, ill.
So between the average physician debt usually being around $300-500,000.00, when leaving medical school to enter a residency, to the costs of running a practice, malpractice sometimes as much as $250,000/year to decreasing payments from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare, I’m very well versed. Additionally, I think it is a good topic to have for an article on IFz.Com. Besides, insurance companies and all their new buildings with decreased benefits to those who enroll and those who provide care have to be examined. Thanks for your feedback, B. You have convinced me that article must be written sooner rather than later.
I certainly appreciate the info about the hrs. of law enforcement, because I have limitted knowledge (just a couple of cops I personally know) of the hours in different law enforcement agencies. BTW, many E.R. physicians work 24 hr. shifts in the E.R.
Are there any GOOD reasons why law enforcement pay is so different between local agencies? Is there usually this much difference between the Sheriff’s Department and Police Department (or Departments) in the same county? Do taxes need to be raised to compensate especially the front line cops better?
Is it a problem of appropriation from the City Council or County Commissioners (not budgeting enough overall compared to other different depts. who receive their funding from the same budget)? Or is it due to a growing population and the need for more law enforcement?
Or is it more a problem of how funds are distrubted in the respective law enforcement departments? What I mean is are some agencies too top heavy with senior officers who receive compensation perhaps beyond what other agencies in the state would pay, so the cop on the street receives less?
Do any of the lower wages have anything to do with the amount of former officers who now are receiving retirement payment? Is the problem an internal one in that a particular law enforcement agency has committed too many dollars to former officers and not enough for the current ones?
If not enough money being appropriated overall for the law enforcement unit’s budget, then can citizens make a difference by contacting the County Commissioners and/or City Council members? With whom should local citizens focus their time to let those who dispense the funds that officers aren’t paid enough locally?
I don’t know the answers to my questions, which is why I asked them. I do appreciate the time and efforts of those who have commented to educate me and others who weren’t aware of the severity of the problem.
Is there anyway to know what Capts. in other Idaho cities make compared to I.F.? I’d be interested to compare the numbers, but don’t know where to look.
Can someone (or many) in the know give us a general idea of what an entry level officer should make and how pay is increased?
Also, especially with the new bomb squad forming, as officers become experts in certain aspects of law enforcement, are they compensated more for that expertise and training?
BTW - does anyone know how Jefferson and Madison Counties pay just for comparison. Are officers compensated in other ways - besides driving a car home (which I personally think is great).
Thanks in advance for the info. I always learn something new when I read about law enforcement. What I use to perceive as the reality about local law enforcement is being eroded away as I learn facts. I really appreciate those who have educated me to the realities.
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0 0 The pay for the IFPD relative to other agencies in this part of the state is good. But once you get away from this corner of the state the pay pales in comparison and as Law Enforcement across the country struggles to fill its ranks the competition is becoming fierce for officers with better pay and benefits well above that offered locally. Which is why the BCSO is now officially a training ground for officers to go elsewhere and the IFPD is danger of becoming the same.
The Post Register ran an article a while back about how Kootenai county is having trouble staffing deputies on the street due to the low pay they offer relative to other agencies. Kootenai county starts their deputies out, according to the article, at about $18.50 an hour which is about $2.50 an hour HIGHER than the IFPD and over $6.00 higher than the BCSO. Granted the cost of living is higher in the Couer d’Alene area than here.
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0 0 So it sounds like a two pronged approach, so to speak. If the Sheriff submits a budget, the Sheriff has to request enough funding to cover all the officers (and the growth in Bonneville County).
Then, after the Sheriff submits to the Commissioners, do the 3 of them vote or analyze Law Enforcement in any capacity separately, or just as part of the overall budget?
In other words, should our complaints and recommendations be aimed at the 3 County Commissioners and/or the Sheriff?
I have no problem with law enforcement officers making more money. I just need some primers of who I, and others concerned, should start contacting to make those in charge aware the current pay rate (and loss of officer) isn’t acceptable.
Thanks for the info everyone.
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0 0 Just a bit off topic I guess, but if you really want to do soemthing to help Law eEforcement in the State of Idaho, help make some changes in the way injured or disabled police officers are treated here. I know many officers who have medically retired from Law Enforcement positions in the state of California. In California, an officer can just about medically retire if he gets a bad headache. I’m serious! I work with 3 guys, all retired cops from California, and all medically retired before they were 50. These guys are strong, active and healthy. Do a little research on your own and see what Idaho does to cops injured on the job. The Post Register should run a story on that! Start by checking out what benefits are now available to the State Trooper who was shot several months ago in Twin Falls. And prior to that– what happend to the State Tropper who was shot years ago near the Utah state line? You may remember –he was the one who was driven to Snowvile Utah in an RV and lost nearly all of his blood. When you find out what the State gave these guys, and compare it to the 80% tax free lifetime salary the cops in California get for a hangnail it’s sickening. Now I am not saying our State system should be set up in such a liberal fashion as to allow abuse (like Californias was) but I wonder sometimes how we even get people to work as Police Officers in this State when I look at pay, retirement and injury compensation benefits. We will take an officer who has been paralyzed for life protecting our State, pat him on the back, say “thanks alot,” and send him home. We owe more than that to a person who has given so much on behalf of us all.
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0 0 Just look up what the state has done, or rather hasn’t done, for Michael Kralicek formerly of the Couer d’Alene police department. He was shot in the head a few years back while arresting a bad guy. He wasn’t expected to live and spent months in the hospital in Seattle. Miracuously he’s recovered much more than anyone ever expected but he does have brain damage and he does require 24 hr nursing care.
The CdA police department fired him as soon as they legally could to get out of paying his medical bills. The state gave him a disability retirement which pays about 66% of his former salary. The state WILL NOT provide the 24 hr nursing care he needs and told his wife she should do it since she happens to be a nurse. So now she cannot work and they and their children are forced to live on his disability pay and donations.
http://www.cdapolice.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=53
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0 0 Excellent points, FeelinLucky and Anonymous.
I was (can’t use that word here) off at the legislature for their failure to address the shooting of the Twin Falls area State Trooper. Man, that officer and his family should be cared for by the STATE. But, what did our great legislatures do…. oh don’t get me on that topic.
I’m not familiar with the CDA case, but appreciate the link.
Honestly, I can’t remember the case about the officer being driven to Snowville. But, I sincerely appreciate both of your efforts to educate at least me and hopefully others.
So here’s my newest question: Does the State of ID place enough of emphasis on salary and other compensation for officers? If the State doesn’t, I can see how cities and counties wouldn’t think well-compensated officers and taking care of your own, injured in the line of duty, was that important.
Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m not saying I agree with that logic, but I keep wondering at which level or with whom we the public can make the biggest impact voicing our views?
FeelinLucky, I can’t even respond to what CA accepts as “injuries.” The ID officers had major life, alerting or ending injuries. They don’t even compare.
Could part of the problem be that politicians haven’t kept up with the growth in raising taxes (or appropriating them) enough to law enforcement? I don’t know, I just ask because I keep senseing somewhere along the line someone is saying officers don’t need to make that much money. I might be totally wrong on this, which is ok - I can be corrected. But I stilll wonder from whom and why are the County Commissioners, City Councils and I guess in the case of the ISP, the state of ID, taking their cues about the compensation to officers?
Thanks again for the info. I’m really learning a lot. I hope others are. I’ve certainly not had an accurate perception before and will gladly admit I’ve been educated.
I truly appreciate the info because I want to see what I can do to help make the situation better.
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0 0 I find the comments concerning the “metro” idea very interesting. Why its never been put down on paper (to my knowledge) and seriously looked at to determine if it is viable, is a shame.
I also heard a very interesting comment from one of the county deputies awhile back. I was discussing the possibilities of a metro department with him; he felt that things would eventually go just the opposite way. That Ammon was on the verge of being big enough to create their own police department and that Idaho Falls would continue to annex in new growth. Eventually forcing the county down to a very small patrol force which mainly covered the back country.
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0 0 Going metro would be the WORST thing this area could do to solve this problem. Going metro would help eliminate some dead weight at the administrative level but your delusional if you think that savings would go to help officer’s salaries. All going metro would do is bring the pay of all the officers down to the level the BCSO currently pays. And since the BCSO currently is struggling mightily to fill positions and then retain officers at its current size, it would be stupid to triple the size of the department.
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0 0 Post #32 is incorrect. The pay scale for all officers would have to rise to the level of the city. Idaho Falls could never “drop” the pay of their people. Also, even if they tried, they would lose a FLOOD of people to Boise and other places that pay higher. Once you no longer need to duplicate services (or positions) you realize quite a savings. Just one department head — get rid of livsey. What does that save? How many Captains, Lt’s, Sgt’s would be needed? How many are there now? At least it deserves to be looked at in a formal study, and the numbers need to be given to the citizens. Not just peoples opinions (mine included) but the numbers.
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0 0 If Idaho Falls dissolved the police department to go Metro they would fire all the city police officers. No doubt the county would then rehire many of them but it would be at county wages.
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0 0 FeelinLucky lucky is right. A ton of officers would leave if their pay was cut to the pathetic levels the deputies have to put up with. More than the numerous ones who are even now exploring the better options out there.
It would be nice (possibly even responsible) for Mayor Furhiman or the city council to get with the county comm. and determine what the pros and cons are of having a metro department. Then release all the findings with the public. Yes it would be a huge undertaking, but the possible outcome could benefit everyone.
Of course, even the mere mention of a metro department strikes major discord with the upper administrators in the city police. Why is it again that we have never seen this on paper?
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0 0 The two departments “merge.” Savings are realized through the new lack of duplication. There would be no need to lower anyones pay. How many Deputies would be brought up to the city scale by applying the Chiefs $100,000 (plus) salary each year? Not even worth the time to discuss though. We need an official anlaysis of the cost benefits. You and I are just speculating. Unless you are the person who just completed that study - in which case I stand corrected.
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0 0 I agree. A formal study is needed. If residents need to understand the raise in taxes for officer salaries, solid datat needs to be available.
However, I still maintain until enough citizens bend the ears (telephones or e-mails) of their representative, the mayor, county commissioners etc., then the perception that everythin is “ok” will continue.
So I guess my bigger question is this: How does the average person in Idaho Falls learn as much as I’ve learned here? Sure, they could log on and read what has be written. But, I’m talking about those who haven’t - those who are busy in their own lives and give the subject aboslutely no thought until THEY are the ones who need law enforcement.
In the last year, I had to dial 911 and have officers respond emergently. I really appreciated their professionalism, their willingness to deal with some very, very angry and stoned people trying to break into my house.
And, because I was so impressed how quickly these people worked to protect me and those in my house, I wrote the sheriff a note of appreciation asking that all the responding officers get a positive note in their file from the case.
I can’t guarantee those positive notes got in there charts (and part of that was my fault for not getting all 7 officers exact names and sending them a copy of my letter). I hope they got that extra thanks they deserved. But, am not sure.
So I may be more intrested in this issue than many, both from my personal experience within the last year, and my professional experience working with many, many officers.
Nonetheless, I don’t know how to raise the issue, or with whom, so the general public gets to become better educated.
Would it be beneficial to ask Kortny Ralston, City Editor, for the PR (or another editor at the PR) if they would follow up this discussion with a story?
The PR is open to our suggestions. They want the topics we’ll read about, because as residents of the area and the most dominant media, they want to address the issues we think are the most important.
Or, do we go to City Council meetings, or send letters to be officilaly entered into the record? I have to admit, I’m a bit more confused how to interact with the County than the city, so your suggestions are welcome.
Or, do we address this an entirely different way?
It’s possible once the bomb squad is in place a lot of positive press will occur. And compimentary stories written or broadcast. But, between now and then, is the media a better answer than attempty to get changes by directly contating our representatives to the City Council or County Commissioners?
Thanks in advance to those who are taking your time to answer my questions. I wish more people would ask the questions about what they don’t understand about the process.
I’m still a lit confused too, if there isn’t enough “planning” (should I say) from the one requesting the budget compared to real needs? The amount of the budget for those retired should be a fixed number (even if it changes each year), but I’m still lost here if part of the problem is a failure of the Police Chief or Sheriff to appropriate the funds once they receive them?
Maybe I’ve not been too clear about my confusion, so let me just make up and example. I don’t personally know any officers on the IFPD, so I’ll use that department as my example.
If the Police Chief receives a budget of XXXX dollars, is that totally up to the Police Chief of how much every officer is increased? Or, is there anyone who watches that process? Say theoretically the City Council approved adequate funding to make all officers paid comparably with other municipalities.
How do we, as the tax payers and citizens, know that officer Y or Z on the street got the raise do him/her to bring his/her salary to the appropriate level? Or how do we know if the extra bucks were kept among the top few?
Is there any PUBLIC place the general range of an officers from someone on his/her first day of the job to the Chief of Police, have as the minimum and the maximum each can make yearly? I still think too many people aren’t aware of the problem.
Thanks again for your patience with me as I get more educated about the facts and wash away my former misperceptions.
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0 0 Another problem with going metro would be the vastly reduced benefits to city police officers. One thing no city employee, and this includes police, can complain about is the excellent benefits they get from the city which include no monthly deductions for the employee for unlimited family members and very low deductibles. Whereas county employees, including those of the sheriff’s deparment, have very poor benefits with high monthly costs to the employee per family member and outrageous deductibles in the thousands of dollars. Which is just another reason why the county has such trouble attracting and then retaining officers.
I don’t believe any saved money would ever go to improving salaries and I certainly don’t think the county would suddenly start offering all the city officers benefits like they used to have. What you would see happen is all the young officers on the IFPD flee to other departments in the state while the ones staying would be those close to retirement (and thus to old to start over elsewhere) and those who are stuck here due to family ties.
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0 0 Please feel free to contact both the commissioners and the sheriff regarding the current issues. Also an article by the post register would be of benefit if the reporter would dig into the issues and not just do a story on what the surface problems are.
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0 0 There used to be and maybe still is a problem with pay in the prosecuting attorney’s office as well. Over the last five to ten years the list of former prosecutors in this town has grown exponentially. Thats because your typical junior prosecutor makes only 30-40 thousand a year. Any prosecutor worth his degree can make double that in private practice and sometimes much more. This problem was particularly pronounced during Kip Manwarings term. I’m not as familiar with the current situation so perhaps Dane Watkins has fixed things.
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0 0 I suggested to Joe that posters suggest topics for polls and submitt different categories for answers. I did this after I have read the info many of you have provided.
I don’t know enough to write the poll. But, something like: Do you know the differences in a beginning officers pay for IFPD vs. BCO and working hours. Would be a great start.
I know for a fact at least 3 media sources check this site (maybe more). I suspect a poll, on the first page, might get someone’s attention.
And thanks for the tip, Anonymous #39. I have no problem writing those people. I just hope others join me.
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0 0 Having read some of the great comments and suggestions here; I would just like to state a couple of facts about pay and hours worked by Bonneville County road deputies and Jail staff…
BCSO Deputies work 12.25 hours per day, 4 days on 4 days off.
They work 86 hours per 2 week pay period.
They are NOT paid time and a half until they work more than 86 hours.
There have been many attempts to educate and inform the commissioners but they are not listening.
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0 0 How does that arrangement not violate federal hourly pay laws then?
I thought it was law that over 40 hours per week or 80 hours per two weeks is time and a half, period.
Is the BCSO breaking the law with every pay period? How long has this been practiced?
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0 0 I seriously doubt that the Sheriffs Office would purposely violate any labor laws. From what I have been told, there was considerable research done into the labor laws that govern emergency response personnel and the pay policy is in line with those laws.
Its just one more thing that Law Enforcement and other
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What about the fact that Sherrif Stommel points the finger at the state when concerns about BCSO salaries come up. When local news outlets have asked in the past, Stommel says salaries are set by the state, and not his office. Is this true, or is this a diversionary tactic to shift blame to another office? IF it truly is up to the legislature, any hope of mobilizing them to improve the situation?
Note that I also wholeheartedly agree that this discussion is not meant to detract from the great work done by our local officers, both in the IFPD and the BCSO.