The Social Pressures of Mormonism
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To begin: The purpose of this post is NOT to debate the rightness or wrongness of the Mormon Faith. That issue has been covered numerously all over the internet, and also on this site.
I’m sure that most would not disagree that this area is dominated by the LDS (Mormon) culture. This is evident in many areas, from the amount of businesses that are closed on Sundays, to the ‘changing’ of the 4th of July celebration in 2004 to July 5th, a Monday. This is also evident in the predominantly right-leaning political landscape of the area. Note that whether this dominance is a good thing or a bad thing is also NOT the subject of this post.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I was raised as a Mormon, went on a mission, and attended Rick’s College (now BYU-Idaho). After many personal experiences, I became a Christian (note: this post is also not the place for the “Mormons are Christian” debate) in 1996 and had my name removed from LDS church records (voluntarily) in 2005. I was not involved in some grave sin (a common misconception about people who leave the LDS faith), I just decided that the LDS faith does not properly represent my view of God, Jesus, etc. If you are interested, you can read my full story HERE (Note that if you are LDS, you probably won’t like my site… feel free to send me hate mail about it if it will make you feel better)
My question is this: Are there significant social pressures in our community that are attached to being Mormon or not being Mormon?
If you are Mormon, are you pressured by friends and coworkers to associate with people and patronize the businesses of other LDS people? Would you never leave the church because of the way your friends, coworkers, and/or business associates would react?
If you are not Mormon, are you treated differently because you don’t belong to the predominant faith? Is this minor, or unbearable? Has it made your life difficult, or the lives of your children? Has your business been affected? Do you think you could never become involved in local politics because you are not Mormon?
The reason I ask these questions is twofold:
First: I have a friend who is LDS. He owns a local business. He has confided in me that he doesn’t want to be LDS anymore. However, he also says that he will never leave the church because of the negative impact it would have on every other aspect of his life. His father would strip him of his business, or he would lose many clients, thus he would wind up in dire financial trouble, and could lose his home, etc. In my opinion, the social pressures of Mormonism are too great for him to overcome. Are these social pressures something that other members of the LDS church feel, or is my friend’s situation unique?
Second: Since I have left the Mormon Church, I have been very happy. However, there are some who insist on treating me very poorly. Several people at work refuse to speak to me since they learned that I left ‘The Church’ and when I confronted them about it, they say it’s because they “don’t associate with apostates” and “I don’t talk to people destined for Outer Darkness” (both are ACTUAL QUOTES!!!). When trying to buy a car from a local dealer (not one of the ‘big’ corporate dealers) the salesman said the price would be lower if I was Mormon, and could thus finance through Zion’s Bank. Instead, I bought a different car from a different dealer. In addition, I get tired of seeing my children being placed on the fringes and losing friends because “mommy says you go to the wrong church, and I can’t play with you.” [Yes, I know that not all Mormons are that way, and I’ve heard the “church is perfect, people aren’t” argument a thousand times.]
What can we do to eliminate the social pressures of belonging to a particular faith, or barring that, what can we, as a community do to help people of all faiths feel more welcome in the Idaho Falls community?
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Comments
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0 I hesitate to add to the comments here, but I believe that much good can come of open, honest communication, so I won’t bite my tongue.
I, like Rich, grew up Mormon, and left its ranks when I was 18 (though my name is still on record with the organization.) I consider myself to be Christian, and in the interest of honesty, do harbor some ill feelings toward the religion as a whole.
However, this is not the place to discuss my feelings - let’s stick to the discussion at hand - the social pressures of living in a Mormon society.
I have felt the pressure of living in such a society in almost every aspect of my life - my decision to leave the Church caused a great deal of conflict within my family that, gratefully, we are working through after many years of struggle. I recall in Sunday School being taught that it was trouble to associate with non-Mormons, and I was often warned not to befriend non-Mormons, as they didn’t share the same values and would “lead me astray.”
The same experience was share by my wife as a child, whose mother was chided by her bishop for allowing her and her sisters to play with non-Mormons.
I hope that most people see the utter silliness of this belief, and see that we should choose our friends and acquaintances based not on religious grounds, but on the basis of who makes us more complete as a person, who brings light into our lives in some way or another. It seems ridiculous to me to limit one’s friends based on membership in a common group of people. There are good Mormons and bad Mormons, just as there are good atheists, Christians, and Wiccans, etc.
That beings said, I should mention that I associate with people of all walks of life - I have Mormon friends, atheists, Christians, etc. I find that they all have much to offer me, as a Christian, and bring something to the table, which should be celebrated.
I have also felt the pressure being a non-Mormon at my place of work, which is populated mainly by people of the LDS faith. I have noticed (and I should mention that this is a subjective observation which I cannot prove) that the LDS employees are given much better shifts, sections, and leeway when it comes to their behavior than the rest of the employees - though, it doesn’t help that the manager’s son is an employee, a member of the LDS church, and was able to get many of his devout LDS friends hired as well. So, there is reasonable doubt here that it is a personal bias on the part of the manager, rather than a religious one.
Here is an interesting story - last night at work, I was speaking to an LDS employee and I mentioned the phrase “you reap what you sow”, to which he replied, “Wow! Jeremy’s quoting scripture! We’ll make a Mormon of you yet.” I know that this is an isolated incident and a vast majority of Mormons are not this ignorant, but it did strike me and very much upset me.
I digress - the real message here is one that can apply to people of all religions (or lack thereof): We should forsake our bigotry when it comes to religion, and learn to serve and love one another as people. Lest we forget that Christ, who both Christian and Mormon traditions model their beliefs after, served gentiles as well as Jews!
We should strive to create a community of tolerance and acceptance, and while we should hold our beliefs dearly, we should understand that others hold those same beliefs equally dearly.
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0 0 I personally don’t care which religion a person belongs to, however I do encounter people that won’t associate with me (this includes doing business with me) because I’m NOT LDS. When I find myself in this situation I just keep on keeping on and be the best I can be.
I’m sure if I lived in another area of this country I’d find similar situations with the predominant religion from there. So….we should all be good to one another. See you all on the other side!
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0 0 Growing up in Idaho Falls I can assure anyone that social pressures from the mormon church run rampant in the eastern part of the state. I can’t tell you the number of times I have been asked which “ward” I belong to during job interviews. In the future I will consider making such practices more publicly known.
Social pressures in high school are also readily apparent. There was certainly a segment of the student body that associated only with other “good” mormon kids. This leads me to another question. Why is it that seminary is allowed to be taught during school hours? I know that no credit is received for this time but this still seems utterly ridicules to me. I ended up graduating high school more than a trimester early because of the way the district has arranged itself to be able to hold seminary during school hours. I can’t help to think that such part of seminaries agenda is to help the church exert control over their youth when they are at risk of being in contact with non believers.
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0 0 I was born and raised in Idaho Falls as well. During elementary school I didn’t notice much of a difference between the LDS and non-LDS kids. The differences became more noticable when I was in junior and in high school. I am not LDS but most of my friends were. I never totally “fit in” with them because I had different beliefs. One thing I really remember was dating. None of them were allowed to go on dates unless it was some type of a “group date”. I was allowed to date on my own and as such they seemed to feel that this was a huge sin. I guess I would have understood that if I was getting into trouble or making out with all of the boys I dated or having sex at a very early age but none of those things were the case.
It didn’t seem to matter what I did or what I didn’t say, I just never fit in because there were things I didn’t know about (things that they did in seminary, baptizems for the dead, etc.).
I did come out of it with a few very close friends that are LDS that don’t hate me or treat me differently because I am not LDS but for the vast part I just didn’t feel that I felt in with the other kids in school and I believe a lot of this same mind set does carry over into the adults and into the workforce.
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0 0 I have a question, and I’m very interested in the different opinions out there. In the interest of disclosure, I was raised mormon and am now “inactive”. I did not marry inside of the church. I don’t have strong feelings about the church, one way or the other. My question is this: How much of the segregation that many of the readers here have expressed do you think is due to the religion itself? I ask because I wonder if it’s because it is such a large percentage of the population, if it’s kind of like (this may be a bad example) areas of LA that are predominantly populated by African Americans. The culture in these areas are different, because the majority of the people there are in the same situation. I have a friend who is white and grew up in the projects, and was regularly harassed for being different. I wonder if it’s the religion or if it’s kind of human nature (however sad it is) for the majority to join together and pick on the minority?
I know this is a very sensitive topic for many people, and I’m not asking this question to make a point. I’m very interested in other people’s opinions on this.
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0 0 Have you ever noticed how folks from Idaho Falls think they are better than folks from Pocatello or Blackfoot? I’m sure its because the majority of site workers live in Idaho Falls and they think they are better than anyone who dosent work at the site. I once had a friend tell me his parents told him he could not play with me beacuse my father didnt have a PhD. Just wondering if anyone else noticed. I once worked at the site but then became disenchanted and quit. Ever since I have been treated like a second class citizen by those who work at the site. My children also notice that site kids won’t play with them. I think we will have to move to Pocatello.
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0 0 Buzz - were you being serious, or was your reply meant to be sarcastic?
If it was serious, I have never noticed any superiority complex in IF’ites. And I have lived in both cities.
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0 0 Well this is an interesting thread.
I was born and raised in the LDS Church, and I served my mission with the US Army. In high school I found it disturbing that the same kids that were passing sacrament on Sunday, were at the beer bust the night before. I found it funny how the pressure to remain a good Morman in the eyes of the community seemed to turn these kids into hippocrates. Professing to be one thing and acting another.
Once I moved back into the area I found that true to form most of those same kids had grown up and done what was expected of them in the LDS Faith. The pressure in this area is intense. I believe that the appearance of being a good LDS Member is so important to some in this area everything else is secondary.
Buzz- I have heard people call Rexburg the Holiest City in Idaho.
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0 0 I’ve been to some parties in Rexburg that would turn your hair white. Holy, but butt.
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0 0 I have some questions that drive me crazy concerning the mormon beliefs and the overwelming number who are very conservative. I don’t mean to offend I just really don’t understand.
1. There is a high number of mormons who do have many children but turn to welfare programs for food and health insurance benefits. Which is more important the large number of chidren or conservative beliefs of small government?
2. What is more important for a devout LDS man, serving in the military for their country or going on a mission?
3. Most high government conservatives are of religions which don’t even recognize mormons as Christians.
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0 0 To answer questions for “guest” #11.
1) My understanding is the LDS Faith has an in-house welfare system where they work to repay what they use. I doubt that a “high number” of mormons are on state welfare and health insurance. I think it would fail in comparison to what we see in most areas across the U.S.
2) Many LDS men do serve in the armed forces and have careers in the military. At many times in history, LDS men served both in the military and on mormon missions.
3) I believe this once again depends on what facts you are going off of. I thought a Christian was someone who “believes in Christ” and “worships Christ.” So why aren’t mormon’s Christian?
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0 0 I saw this comment in the chatbox from earlier today, and found it very relevant to this discussion. I have cut and paste it below, and I invite the guest to made this comment to register, login and add some more of their thoughts 
“Quote”
Guest_4452 : you know i first read your article with my wall up because no one wants to hear bad thing said about a big part of their life. But then as I re-read it with out my wall I realize that it does happen to people. Sorry. That doesn’t fix it but it does make me as an LDS try to pay more attention. If you have no regrets in your decision to leave the church then enjoy life and know that I wouldn’t treat you different. I grew up In CA and still have friends who are no where near my beliefs and I stil
“Close Quote”
In addition, to respond to comments by guest and nufsaid,
Mormons consider themselves Christians because of their worship of Jesus Christ. Most other Christian faiths do not view Mormons as Christians because Mormon beliefs differ from those of ‘traditional’ Christianity. This article was not intended to stir up this debate, sorry!
edited for clarity
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0 0 Pretty vague, but:
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : DISCIPLE 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961
Christ professed that He was God (see John 1: “The word was with God and the word was God, and the word became flesh …), while Mormons believe that Jesus was the literal child of God, conceived by God with Mary (see Smith’s Journal of Discourses).
Mormons were not in the United Church of Christ or Disciples of Christ.
It fails both definitions.
I hope that clarifies what we’re talking about here.
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0 0 Nuf said, I’m sorry but you are very wrong concerning #1.
Regarding #2 you didn’t answer the question. #3 Look it up its true
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0 0 Guest if certain questions are driving you crazy about the Mormon faith i can understand why based on your 2 quetions, and the one statement. (#3 is a statement not a question) They would drive me nuts as well if they were valid at all.
Perhaps guest can provide us with stats to back up this question that is driving him/her nuts about the high number of mormons who turn to the social welfare programs. Maybe, just maybe guest (who doesn’t want to offend) can back up something that is totally meant to offend. Guest how about you provide us with the per capita spending of say ID and UT on their social welfare programs. For sure if these states are made up of large populations of mormons then both states would have huge outlays on their respective social welfare programs as per guest ‘high numbers’ of mormons rely on state/federal welfare. I know these types of stats are easily found on both state and federal sites as both love to track this type of thing. So please guest help us out and provide us with the stats to back up your ‘question’.
#2. That is easy and everyone knows the answer to that one. The majority for sure view serving a mission as more important. With that being said are you insinuating that the number of LDS men and women that serve in the armed forces are not in line with national averages of the total male female population? Guest please provide us with the statistics to back up your point 2 because clearly you are insinuating that not enough LDS men and women serve. So I will give you some hints as you attempt to provide us with stats that will help you to answer your own question. Take the total male population of the United States devide that by the number of males serving in the armed forces. That will give you a percentage of the total number of males that serve. Now after you have done that little bit I will be glad to do my part and that is to take the total number of declared mormons that serve in the military and I will do the math there to get the percentage of mormons that serve. Now my question guest and please bear with me as I know you want another swig of koolaid, is what do you think your percentage would be and what do you think my percentage would be???
Statement #3. Who cares what a large majority of conservatives think about whether or not mormons are chritians or not. Are you insinuating that maybe mormons are stupid for being conservative just because others don’t believe the way they do? That somehow mormons should be offended that their religion isn’t embraced by others? Hint political philosophy has little to do with what faith one belongs to but what individuals themselves believe and want to see in their respective governments. This is why guest that we have political parties. This is why democrats can have people in their party that may be socially liberal but fiscally conservative. By the logic of your statement the socially liberal democrat must not like and have any purpose for the fiscal conservative democrat because they both might not agree on each other priorities and see them in the same light. Do you think the same way about the large Jewish populations that are democrats and the large segments of the gay population that are democrats? Basically same logic your applying to LDS and other conservatives.
So please guest help us out here and maybe just maybe if you can stay away from the koolaid long enough you can provide us with the data that backs up your rediculous questions/statements.
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0 0 Ronin by the way your question on this is valid and I find no fault in your bringing it to this forum for further discussion.
When I served in the military I for sure felt I was treated differently by others because I was LDS. So I don’t find it out the norm that non LDS find themselves feeling like they are treated differently.
I will say this as well having served in different civic groups that I feel bad that ther are not more LDS people in these great organizations. But then again as you know the LDS faith asks a bit more of it’s members in the way of time committments and the such. So i’m sure that (and i don’t speak for all mormons for sure) many that are LDS rationalize that they are already giving their time and don’t have more to give. It’s similar to the liberal philosophy that John stated in an earlier topic/post when he said that maybe the amount of dollar donations given by liberals versus conservative is that liberals believe that they are giving via the government so the government should play the larger role for helping the poor. LDS maybe view it similarly for why they don’t do more in the community.
I do feel bad for this as I feel that more involvement in the community by LDS people can help to bridge the commuication gaps and misconceptions that both LDS and non LDS have of each other. I know I have learned tons and advocate as much as I can secular service.
The prophet of LDS church last year I believe spoke out very strenuously that LDS should not have misgivings or hesitation in allowing their children to play and associate with non LDS children. He stated not allowing this is wrong and that we LDS should not seggregate ourselves from our neighbors over a mater of faith. If you want a copy of his talk I can get it to anyone it was really quite good and was needed to be said for a while.
Some LDS do not realize that they can be in the ‘world’ and not of the ‘world’. There is a difference and we should all no mater what religion you are strive to love and serve each other.
So please if people feel that there are specific points of division regardless of the group involved should feel safe in bringing it up in this forum for discussion. This can help to bring people together instead of deviding them so KUDOS for bringing it up.
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0 0 Just a thought, but doesn’t judging whether someone is a Christian or not kind of violate the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:1? Also, the only One who really knows if I am Christian or not that counts is the Lord Jesus. If my neighbor thinks I am a great Chistian, but God doesn’t, it doesn’t really matter does it?
As far as social pressure to continue attending church, etc., of course that exists, but it isn’t just true of the LDS church. When my family and I lived in Saipan there were social implications for not being Catholic. (I think the percentage of Catholics in Saipan is over 90%) I believe the same bias exists where ever one group (religious or racial) makes up a majority of the population. I also think some but not all of it is unintentional. The real answer is for all of us to be more tolerant of each other.
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0 0 Amen.
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0 0 Great point “Robert Wright” and may I ad my Amen to that.
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0 0 I understand that this debate is based on living here in Idaho Falls, but being a newcomer to this town, two years ago, I have found that this community is much like other small comminities. The place I came from also changed the July 4th celebration to July 5th in 2004 and all the blame went to the Christians, there aren’t enought Lds there to make a fuss over. Most of the people in that small town are more new age and many do not hold a belief in any kind of god , so the town in general is posed ….chritian against non- believers. Some of the same feelings that have been shared here are also felt in other areas. When ever you have two or more large groups of people with different beliefs and social views, you will always have the unfortunate ones that feel they need to judge and correct the other. I am an LDS convert and have been mistreated because of that . Laughed at because I don’t drink coffee are shop on Sundays. And, yes, other parents wouldn’t let their kids play with mine because I was mormon. So, this type of treatment is everywhere and by all different people. Teach your children the way to treat others and maybe our next generation will not judge others the way we have been judged.
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0 0 Robert - I am humbled. Thank you.
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0 0 Social pressures of Mormonism
I want to say that I am extremely tolerant of religious beliefs. I really don’t care what you worship – unless it causes you to do the following:
Behave as is your religion is the only right one
Causes you to exclude others who are not of your same faith
Causes you to behave cruel to others or animals
Tolerates cruel or unusual punishment to people or animals
My only beef with the Mormons is that, from my own experience, there is a lot of that “our religion is the right one†and your’s is not kind of attitude. I have also seen some exclusionary attitude from Mormons – “I won’t do business with your company because you are NOT Mormon, yet I will GLADLY take money from you to do business with ours.â€
It’s also odd that the Mormon religion is forceful about Mormons dating and marrying other Mormons – or at least having them convert to Mormon. I once dated a Mormon, it was great until he said the church said I have to convert, or we have to break up. He wanted to send some “sisters†to talk to me, and I refused. We kept dating for a while, but he kept harping on and on about becoming Mormon. I investigated the religion and quickly realized it was not for me. We ended up splitting up. I have never heard of a Catholic not being able to marry another catholic – I thought we converted religions because we want to, not because we are forced to.
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0 0 Even though people mean well, they are often misguided or misunderstood with their words or behavior?
In an earlier post the idea was brought up that unintentional offense is often misunderstood as intentional and that people are condemned unfairly on every side of an argument.
Are we responsible for being offended if we choose?
Do all people go around trying to offend intentionally all the time… why so many bitter responses to the original article?
Isn’t part of our responsibility in society to try to understand and to help others understand with dignity and patience?
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0 0 I’ve been all over in the military, seen many different cultures. I have lived in Idaho Falls for 10 years and have never encountered a more “influential” religious aspect than here. I see it in the commercials, both radio and TV. You see it within the political ads. You see it constantly for job interviews (ie what ward are you from). I see it quite a bit since I have tattoos. The Mormon families just staring at you like you’re the plague. Not all… but a vast majority. These are my observations. Not bias, just what I’ve seen over the last decade.
Then, on the other hand, I have worked with 3 or 4 Mormons. They have all been 100% great guys to work with, not a single complaint… well except I have to watch my mouth around them But really, these guys are top of the line people and co-workers. I’d go into a fire fight with any one of them I’ve worked with, hands down.
That is my internal conflict. Of the 4 or 5 I see or work with every day… they are good people. Yet, the Mormon community as a whole (within Idaho Falls), is very judging and condescending.
Again, these are my thoughts, nothing thrown in, not bias. Just the internal conflict… I don’t “hate” any Mormon, I don’t hate the “judgemental” looks. I do ignore them, with a slight grin.
Nice discussion Joe, much appreciated.
Good day…
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0 0 This is definately a touchy subject…
Since moving up here last April from South Florida, I can honestly say the people in this town are much nicer and much more friendly. I work with a number or Mormons and their all very nice. I don’t agree with many of the Mormon beliefs, but I have nothing against the Mormon people as a whole. Coming from S.Fla is kind of the same situation as up here, except there’s a huge population of Jewish people down there. Now those people are rude! They complain about everything and they think the world owes them because of the Holocaust. They don’t however try to push the Jewish religion on anyone like the Mormons do. I personally think alot of people grow up and believe in the religion that there parents believed in. I grew up going to the 1st Christian church in Pompano Beach Florida. They believed and taught the congregation about the Bible and the Bible only. Once I turned 17 and moved out on my own, I stopped going to my regular church and decided to look into different religions and different beliefs, so I could make my own decision, instead of the religion my PARENTS instilled in me. One thing I DID learn was, organized religion as a whole, is basically all the same. They all want your money and they all tell you THERE church is the only one you should be going to or your basically going to hell. I’ve spent time in Catholic, Prodestant,Methodist, Episcapallen,(sp?) Baptist, Jewish & LDS churchs. I even spent quite a bit of time in a non-denominational church called Calvary Chapel. I enjoyed that church, but you would still get people in their that spoke in tongues, something I don’t believe in. After looking into all of them, I came back to my original belief of the Christian Church, or most Church of Christ,your standard Christian Church, as they taught the Bible and the Bible only. The Mormon religion was definately one of most wacked out religions (if you can call it a religion) out there. I personally think it’s a cult, but that’s just MY opinion. There are so many crazy beliefs in the Mormon religion, it amazes me how seemingly intelligent people can get sucked in to the craziness that is the Mormon church. I’m all for having strong family bonds and all, but EVERY religion preaches that, not just the Mormons, who seem to THINK their the only ones who believe in strong family values.
I read RoninRiches website and I was very impressed! I was impressed by his courage and strength to break free from all the brainwashing they did to him & his wife. It’s like anything in life though, unless you research both sides of the coin and can make your own honest assessment, instead of blindly following what your parents or friends do, then people will continue to follow others with blinders on. Most Mormons have grown up in the Mormon life and that’s all they know and all they WANT to know. Instead of looking into different beliefs or even looking deeper into the Mormon philosophy to see just how warped it really is.
I know this is a touchy subject for everyone and I’m not out to tell people what to believe and what not to believe, just open your eyes. And those of you that have ONLY studied the Mormon beliefs and nothing else, I honestly don’t think there’s much for you to discuss in this thread, as you’re blinded by the brainwashing and hipocrosy that is the LDS cult…or church if you will.
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0 0 …chrisr671…
You said you are not out to tell people what to believe and yet you say in the next sentence, “open your eyes… you’re blinded by the brainwashing and hipocrosy that is the LDS cult…”
Isn’t that telling people what to believe?
Am I wrong?
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0 0 I’m not telling you what to believe…if you want to believe God lives on a distant planet, that’s fine by me.
And yes…I do believe their are social pressures when it comes to Mormonism in this community! I’ve been dating a girl for 9 months who’s family are Mormons, but she left their church 8 years ago. Since we’ve lived together, they STILL send people to our house!! She needs to get one of those forms RoninRich was talking about and fill it out. She to wasn’t able to play or associate with non-mormons when she was growing up. YES I DO believe there is a problem with THAT religion. But I could give two Sh##’s if you want to believe it. Just stop pushing it down everyone’s throat. I do belive Joe is right that some are worse then others, and it’s like that in many religions, but in MY experience…and I emphasize MY experience, LDS and Johovahs Witness are the worst.
Believe what you want, but if that’s what you’ve grown up with and that’s all you know, I urge you to research the truth about the Mormon religion.
But like I said…I could care less…all I was doing..like everyone else, was putting my 2 cents in.
Sometimes the truth hurts, huh?
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0 0 I must side with Guest on this one, Chris. Using such loaded language as you did undermines your intended message. It is irresponsible to call Mormons a “cult”, just as it was irresponsible for me to argue against their being Christian (at least in this public setting!)
Perhaps we should be more mindful of our discourse - using loaded language will likely backfire in our efforts to ease the tension between religion factions in Idaho.
So I will pose a question to maneuver our discussion a bit:
To our Mormon readers: Do you believe it is wrong to allow the religion majority to decide the bulk of public (drinking laws, liquor sales on Sunday, etc.) and private matters (religious holidays, moving the Independence Day Celebrations, etc.) because the majority supports such actions? Or is it more benefiting to all to separate public and private affairs in the interest of civility?
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0 0 Sorry Jeremy…I thought our opinions were allowed here. Guess not…I will try to limit my opinions to be a little more “gentle” towards our Mormon readers.
I do agree with your second paragraph though…excellent points and ones that you and I will never be able to change BECAUSE of the Mormon majority.
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0 0 Your opinion is certainly allowed, just as my opinion to disagree with you is allowed. Free speech isn’t the blind acceptance of all attitudes and opinions, but the free and unhindered exchange of speech. So, just as you can say what’s on your mind, I can say that I believe you are wrong.
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0 0 It’s probably a very good life experience for us all to at one time feel the effects of bigotry.
Per websters
Bigot one obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his own church, party, belief or opinion.
The greatest majority of us writing on this post are more than likly main stream whities with a fraction of knowledge of truly feeing ostrisized from any group, the best we could do is remember how if feels.
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0 0 bigot
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
— big·ot·ed \-gə-təd\ adjective
— big·ot·ed·ly adverb
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0 0 “The Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony feared and disliked the Quakers — which is ironic, since the Puritans had themselves come to Massachusetts to freely practice their own beliefs.”
http://www.ustrek.org/odyssey/semester1/100400/100400irenequakers.html
This discussion has established that there are some religious exclusions felt around Idaho Falls, and that it happens everywhere and with all religions to some extent.
This discussion has also established that people observing various religions range from great people to those that practice exclusion. I think we can agree the same is true of people who observe no religions; there are great beauties and bad apples in every barrel, right?
So isn’t the problem really with people in general, no matter the religion?
Could the problem really be that sometimes people hurt other people?
Could bigotry and religious generalizations really originate in our fear of being hurt by other people?
Fear always comes before anger.
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0 0 “When trying to buy a car from a local dealer (not one of the ‘big’ corporate dealers) the salesman said the price would be lower if I was Mormon, and could thus finance through Zion’s Bank. Instead,”
What??? You don’t have to be Mormon to bank at Zion’s Bank. I have my checking account and two savings accounts there and I used them to purchase my last car, and I’m not Mormon.
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0 0 I suspected that might be the case, I didn’t investigate it further, I just bought a car from someone else…
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0 0 I am amazed at how civil this discussion is.
Is not every community with a predominate culture overbearing? Me thinks yes.
Is this community’s predominate culture more overbearing than others? Me thinks probably.
Have I personally been victimized by any ‘overbearing’? Me thinks absolutely.
Expounding upon the point of group vs. individual influence on discrimination or isolationism, I will use a positive example. Two of my past coworkers were devout LDS. They set an example, by actions, for all to follow. Finer character, morals, and ethics are so incredibly rare in today’s world. Rod always treated me with respect. Even though I delighted in making him blush with my stories of cross country hitchhiking in the late 60’s early 70’s. Darrell, later in management, chose to quit his job rather than violate his conviction against Sunday work (the business was not even open on Sundays!). I have to respect his faith. Neither man ever showed an inkling of ‘overbearing’.
Remember the old saying of a few bad apples spoiling the barrel.
I will not actively participate in any organized religion. But I do chose to remain in this area.
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0 0 As a newcomer here that is considering starting a new business in I.F. I have to ask “Can a business be successful if the owners are not Mormon? Sorry, I had to ask.
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0 0 This is as much about culture as it is about religion, but if you want to boil it down to one word it would have to be “bigotry.” For as nice as the people in this community can be — and I’ve lived here a long time — it’s got a big running sore on its soul. I’m not sure it’s different anywhere else, but we shouldn’t pretend everything’s so hunky-dory here.
It is human nature for people to set themselves up as better than others. This is true of Christians, Mormons, atheists, Muslims, whites, blacks, gays, heterosexuals, etc. It is the lazy way to feel better about ourselves (”I may be messed up, but at least I’m better than so-and-so over there.”) It is the path to spritual corruption, plain and simple.
Jesus never refused to eat with, talk with or heal anyone. On the night he was betrayed, he washed the feet of the man he knew was going to hand him over to the people who wanted him dead. Yet here we are, setting up walls and putting each other down as if that’s a solution to the mess we’ve made of things.
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0 0 LD:As a newcomer here that is considering starting a new business in I.F. I have to ask “Can a business be successful if the owners are not Mormon? Sorry, I had to ask.
Yes.
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0 0 JeremyPlo wrote -
It is irresponsible to call Mormons a “cultâ€
I write -
I disagree.
The Religious Tolerance page describes the many meaning of cult as follows -
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm
- Mormons as well as other faith groups are included in the descriptions. (For any who may not know - the Religious Tolerance page is a neutral organization which explains the descriptions and understandings of many different faiths - choosing to favor or disfavor none.)
The page does mention that certains words (cult is one of them) have various meanings to different people - and while some might find the meaning negative, others will find it neutral or positive. That does not mean to use it is irresponsible - it DOES mean to use it implies you might get a cross section of interesting interpretations. Some people will be offended, others will be intrigued, others still might be in agreement.
I’m one of those. I believe the LDS church is a cult-like organization (that doesn’t make it “bad” or “wrong” - it simply makes it descriptive from my viewpoint). You may disagree. Niether of us is being irresponsible, we are both sharing our views.
That’s my opinion.
Thanks for reading.
Gypsy
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0 0 I was raised mormon in Idaho falls and Portland OR,Yakima WA.
I always paid 10% of my earnings in tithing.
I always help needy people and have always done the right thing.
I have never been in jail or in trouble with the law.
But a few years ago my children and I had some issues with child support.
The Child support system came after me for both of my kids that lived in my home.
The system garnished my pay checks so bad we couldn’t pay our rent or car payment.
We ended up homeless. And asked our Bishop for help. We have never asked anyone for help before this tragedy.
The bishop refused to help us pay those bills. Even when I asked for work related to the church to repay the money.
Then I tured to family emergency services thru health and welfare.
I was turned down by all agencies because my income was so high. But being guarnished I was left with 300.00 a month to live off of.
I normaly made 2,500.00 a month fixing computers for the state.
Because I had direct deposit of my paychecks the state child support division could count the money as savings and take 100% of the money.
I had to spend $9,000.00 for crooked Lawyer to put a stop to it.
No one helped us. So I learned not to give any church money or canned goods ,clothes or anything at all.
The reason is I found out real fast only the rich or special people in the community recieved help from the church or community services.
I tell you now that anything you do to help people usualy goes over sea’s or to another state and doesnt stay local or is charged for.
So if you want to really help people just find them and help them your self.
The LDS church is a big scam they take your 10% tithing and make special members rich with it. They do not always help members.
The LDS church is a corp, or Buisness. I will never go back to the church ever again.
The Mormons do treat non members diferently they even talk trash about them behind that subjects back.
The church is not a pleasant place to go on Sunday. You can hear the judgmental gossip in the air about non members and current members ( did yo uknow jane smokes cigarettes?) OMG (did you hear Richard is to poor to go on his mission?) (did you know that the richards family is not going to weds bible studies?)( oh yea they are an evil family I wont let my kids even talk to any of them) SHHHHH! here they come)
I hear that stuff so much in the church. I think Frank Vandersloots company is so tight about giving good jobs that are secure to non members.
The church even spies on other members using the members. They know everything you say or do.
Did you all know during the wild west the mormans would force other families to convert or they would hang them? And even the Indians had to convert.
I am sorry but the church gives me the creeps and I am never going back.
I am christan and do not attend church. I have no faith in churches and decided to study my faith from home.
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0 0 I agree with Gypsy & localIF, the Mormon church is a scam and a “cult” in my opinion. I’ve witnessed too much and heard too many horror stories to believe this church is anything but evil on the inside.
My wife grew up in a Mormon household and she stopped going as soon as she moved out of her parents house. So I’ve heard my share of stories regarding this religion and their brainwashing techniques.
I believe this is why Mr.Kelly Shirts didn’t fare too well in defending this religion on that “religion” post debate the last couple of weeks. They teach their followers the art of smooth talking and to skirt around the important topics regarding their faith. Like the poster homeslice said….”it’s all smoke and mirrors”.
I can’t say that the Mormon church is the only church that does this though. Many churches and religions these days are just big business. They want your money that’s the bottom line.
I have been to a few “Christian Churches” in my time though that have been very helpful towards their congregation when someone is down on their luck and needed help financially. And they never asked for anything in return, no paybacks of any kind. Of course these churches are few and far between.
But it’s just one reason while I’ll also stick to worshiping on my own. I’ve tried “non-denominational” churches before, like Calvary Chapel, but it’s still all about the money with them as well. I haven’t been to the one in town here, so my comment wasn’t geared towards them.
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0 0 It was inevitable at the outset that the thread would deteriorate to Mormon bashing. It was nice while it lasted.
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I cringed a bit when I first read the title, because of the contentious and raucous debates in the previous religion discussions (I’m not going to even link to them because they finally petered out).
However, this topic does appear to be more civil, and aimed at discovering more about each other and bridging gaps in our community.
I hope it is productive and helpful for anyone interested.
I don’t want to discourage anyone from commenting, but I do want to re-emphasize that if you do not care for a particular discussion thread, you can hit ‘mark all comments as read’ in the new comments section when you are done with the ones you do want to read.
For me, I don’t think I’ve noticed much of this. When I was 8 we had sign-ups for boy scouts, and me and another non-Mormon buddy always wondered why they never called us back. I don’t know why it was.
I had one serious girlfriend’s mom really lay into me about becoming Mormon if I wanted to go further, and another’s parents be more tolerant than most agnostics I’ve met.
I think it comes down to the individuals more than the population.