I have always leaned to the left when it comes to social issues, save on the issue of taxes and fiscal responsibility. However, recent events have brought to my attention a growing problem in America, one that stems the our inability to resolve our issues with our borders. There is a culture crisis in America – no, not the manufactured “Culture War” invented by Fox News so Bill O’Reilly could sell books, but a very real, very troubling crisis that could dramatically affect the future of our great country.
Recently, a pizza chain in the Southwest began accepting Pesos (the official currency of Mexico) in its America-based stores. A student in Maryland recently left school in protest of the pledge of allegiance being recited in multiple languages as part of “foreign language week” at his elementary school. On top of that, every day, fanatical anti-immigration activists calling themselves the “Minutemen” patrol the US-Mexican border in search of illegal border-crossings.
Indeed, there may be no hotter-button issue in America today than the effects of immigration on our culture, our tax structure, and our domestic policies.
For this reason, I propose uniting our country under a common official language – English. According to a 2000 census, 88% of Americans speak English, and it is the generally accepted language in America (and has been since the birth of our nation.) By allowing for an official language, not only would we soften the hostility between citizens and immigrants by improving communication, but we could also enforce the law to ensure that all public signs and notices are printed in English.
This isn’t a new idea, either. To see a list of national languages, check this website: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0855611.html
So what do you think, Idaho Falls – is it time for America to declare a national language? If so, what should that language be?
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Gato got runned over by Marcus many moons ago. Be ye daft, 2486? 
Let's have a new poll, alright, Joe?
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In a word, no.
Republicans and Democrats speak English, and we know how united they are.
Pretty much everyone in the town I live in speaks English, but the town’s deivided geographically and ideologically by a street, not language.
Don’t know about you, but I haven’t seen many multilingual signs around here, except on menus.
And I speak (in English) as the son of an immigrant who arrived in this country not speaking English, outside of what he could pick up at the movies. He learned English out of economic necessity, and would have if English were the official language or not.
Wouldn’t enforcing English as an official language tie up taxpayer money as much as efforts there are out there to support multilingualism?
Quote: “and it is the generally accepted language in America (and has been since the birth of our nation.)”
Funny I thought that the original language(s) of this country/area was on form or another of native american. Oh wait… our ancestors came here and brought English (as well as many other languages) and pushed their beliefs on the native americans. So now that we still have people imigrating to the US from different countries we have a problem with them still speaking their native tongues? How ironic.
Realistically people do need to be able to communicate with others whether they are on vacation in a foreign country or moving to a new country. They should be able to make some effort to help themselves to communicate with others but I also don’t believe that means that we totally do away with any assistance that these individuals may need due to a language barrier. From the beginning our country was a “melting pot,” as they say, of different nationalities and cultures and it still is today. It is part of what makes the country unique. What would declaring a “national” language really do in the long run? You can’t force someone to learn something new. If people want to learn English then they will, if they don’t then they won’t. Would there be some minimum on the amount of English people would have to speak before coming to the US? Or would it just go on the books as being the “national language” that people recognized but didn’t have to make a real part of their life to live here (i.e. the State Fossil of Idaho… how many people really know what it is and does it really change anything if they do not know?).
Roxy – I have considered the “melting pot” argument time and again, and I always come to the same conclusion: that “melting pot” doesn’t mean blind acceptance of whatever immigrants bring into the country, but a concept of converging cultures under one unifying concept – the nation-state. If you study Roman history, you will learn that it was not conquered from without, but within – shifting cultural tides gave way to diminishing ability to govern, and eventually, the nation fell to the conflicts between cultures.
So, we have a choice – we can either unite under a common language, or continue to escalate the hostilities until it reaches critical mass. My argument is that we have a national identity – we have symbols in our Bald Eagle, our flag, and our cultural heroes. We have a national anthem, we have state birds and flowers, we have national foods, music, and art. Why, then, is the concept of a national language so far-fetched?
One of your comments disturbed me. “Yo can’t force someone to learn something new.” Why not? Are we a nation that expects nothing in exchange for citizenship? Will we simply allow whatever may be to be? creating a national language allows all to be taught in our schools under the same communication system, it allows for a governing based on communication, not accommodation, and would bolster our national identity.
Your first argument I have also heard and if you study what it means, it pretty much falls apart. Look, America, whether we like it or not, is the result of settlers conquering and subduing a native race of people. So, we can either live with that or decide to leave and go back to England, handing the country back over to its natives. That’s not going to happen. This country is America now, a 200-some-odd old nation founded by English-speaking peoples. That is the reality – beyond the catch phrases and nice-sounding arguments, the reality of America (as a nation) is that we have existed for 230 years as one nation, not just a land mass.
Another criticism of the “melting pot” concept – my ancestors came to America from either Russia or German, and Ireland. Upon entering this country, they became what has been called assimilated – you adapt to the cultural norms and national identity in exchange for participation in the country. People do this every day. So, when I see people waving Mexican flags, buying pizzas with pesos, and trying to re-shape our well-established culture, I can’t help but be alarmed.
So, my question is this: Are we so stuck on romantic concepts of absolute acceptance and tolerance that we refuse to take steps to ensure the future of the American Identity? Or, are we willing, in the interest of political correctness, to sit by and let whatever may be, be?
I take issue with your first paragraph. You write as if Republicans are known for fiscal responsibility. Who was the last Republican administration that balanced the budget?
If you ask me, American identity is tied to its immigrants and the contributions they (and we) have made to “American” society. We live in a pretty sheltered, homogenous area, where we don’t see many of the positive aspects of having many cultures. This has nothing to do with any politically correct arguments on tolerance.I just don’t see anything wrong with waving Mexican flags and businesses accepting pesos in payment. Pesos aren’t worthless now, are they? Designating the U.S. as an English-only society isn’t going to stop the flag-wavers or peso-payers. IT all depends on what you’re used to. Here, if I try to buy something with a $2 bill, I get the bug eyes.
Also, I guarantee even “assimilated” people still spoke their native language at home, within their cultural groups, among friends, et cetera. (I know my Dad did. He used his Dutch to cheat at pinochle with another fellow Dutchman.) And though there were many parts of American culture he adopted, he certainly brought enough Dutch culture into our home that we notice it. (Tothis day, no one outside our family can understand our pronunciation of “cat,” sice it comes out closer to Dad’s accented Dutch, “cot.”
So I don’t buy the English-only argument when it comes to “saving” our culture. We should be arrogant enough in the United States to assume that anyone wanting to live here has to adopt our culture? There are many parts of our culture I don’t claim.
Jessica – the Republican Party of today is nothing like that of what was formed so long ago. What was once founded on concepts of free market, liberty, limited government interference in the private sector, and strict adherence to the constitution has become … well, you know.
Brian – I guess we’ve all pretty made up our minds on this subject, then? I guess there’s no need for discussion, then. My point is this: yes, people want to be a part of American society (in response you your last paragraph), but in doing so, isn’t it natural (even correct) that we expect them to try and become a part of that society, rather than a leech on it?
Look, when I took a trip over to France two years ago, I learned some basic French. That’s not because most of them don’t understand English – actually, most of them speak it fluently – but because I wanted to show a bit of respect as an outsider coming into a culture other than my own. How would they have received me had I gone in flying the ol’ stars and strips and refusing to speak any French? They would have been offended and pissed of, and rightfully so. It’s a matter of respect.
I take strong issue you you seeing nothing wrong with immigrants flying their country’s flag in America. This is a flag that represents our country, a flag that people have died for, killed for, and dedicated their lives to protecting! It is an insult to those who founded our country and their Great Cause to allow that sacrifice to be spat on by those who want to take advantage of the American lifestyle without giving back (if even just a bit of respect and homage.)
Jeremy – So how do you suggest that we “force” everyone to learn English that wants to come to America? What about people seeking refuge from places like Cuba? Do you ship them back because they only know 99 of the 100 words required on the test to become a citizen? What guidelines do you put behind it?
You can try to force someone to learn something but that does not mean that they will truly learn it or use it. (In my case that would be Algebra, never understood it, never learned all of the concepts, still don’t use it today). Some people will only do the bare minimum that needs to be done to pass (don’t get me wrong, plenty of others will go above and beyond). So where do you draw the line?
I understand your basic argument for making it the national language, but what exactly does that mean in the real world? All signs that have other languages have to be removed? People have to pass certain tests to become a citizen? Companies like the phone company that offer assitance in another language must stop?
As for the comment about flying a flag from another country, is it not ok for them to also remember where they came from and respect that place as well? What if they want to display the US flag and the flag of their original country because they truly love both. Is that not ok?
How is mandating English as this country’s official language going to stop people from “leeching” on our society? I know plenty of leeches who speak only English.
I lived in France for nearly two years and did my best to learn the language. Generally, I found people there very happy I was learning French. I also found many people happy they could find someone to practice their English with, just as you did. I don’t see immigrants here refusing to learn English and waving their flags in my face. I see hard-working people who are working and learning English and sending their kids to school to learn in English who happen to be proud of their native country. Yes, if you went bold as brass into France flapping the flag in their faces, they’d be upset. But would they be upset if you flew a US flag on the Fourth of July, just because you happen to be an Americazn living in their country? Doubt it.
Jeremy, I don’t look at people flying their native country’s flag in America as disrespectful. Should we go after people who carry “Proud to be Irish” tote bags? Should we burn the flags flying in front of the UN? When I saw those immigrant rallies on the news last year, I saw many Mexican and American flags carried side by side, out of respect. And who says people who fly their flags don’t give back to America? I know plenty of people who pay the Boy Scouts of America to fly flags on their lawns on holidays throughout the year, and only do so because their neighbors are doing it. Is that any more respectful? If we look at what flag people fly to determine their loyalties, their amount of respect, then car dealerships must be the most respectful people in this nation.
Now, I’ve never maintained that establishing a national language would “solve” our nation’s problems … but it’s a good step.
Brian Davidson – you’re opening up a whole new can of worms with the UN. Let’s just say I’m again world government as a general rule.
You say that you don’t see people refusing to learn English, and that surprises me. I encounter that mentality on a daily basis. I see Mexican flags in windows.
Your argument about car dealers lacks one crucial factor – there is no sovereign nation of Chevron.
Roxy – Learning a national language is as much a requirement to live in a nation as learning the national anthem. It’s now about kicking people out if they don’t speak English – it’s about ending a practice of accommodation that has hindered a populace’s ability to create cohesion. Look, it’s not about enforcement and conformity, it’s about a national identity. Perhaps it’s a matter of pride, but I believe that America, as a nation, has an identity, and that identity has certain attributes. For someone to live in this nation in opposition to those attributes just doesn’t make sense.
This post is too funny! JeremyPlo, you’d never survive in Miami, New York City, or even New Orleans where you can hardly understand those people who DO speak English! LOL As for a “National Language”…I might be wrong here, but don’t most of the people in this country SPEAK English? And those people that don’t speak it, really don’t effect or even bother those of us that do speak English.
But try getting lost in Miami without knowing basic Spanish or even Chinatown in San Fransisco without knowing basic Chinese and then come talk to me about “making” people learn English! Now THAT’S funny!
Dude. I’m from Idaho. I’m well aware of the problems with our language in this country. “Nucular” is not a word. Neither is “axed” (when in place of “asked”.) “Creek” is not pronounced “crick”. Dangit.
People seem to be more interested in attacking Jeremy than answering the question he posed.
I think that adopting a national language is a good idea. I think that having a national language could be a good step towards uniting a nation that is becoming increasingly fractured. I don’t think that a national language would ‘force’ people to learn it, they would just be better off and have life a little easier if they did so.
I will even go one step farther than Jeremy. I think that foreign language education should be mandated by our schools. Many many other countries have most citizens who can speak more than one language, English is spoken almost more than any other language on the planet. America lacks this. It’s like a running joke a couple of foreign friends keep reminding me of:
What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual
Who speaks three? trilingual
And what do you call the person who speaks one language? American
Jeremy is great at publishing articles that stir up great debates. Agree or disagree with him, gotta respect his ability to raise legitimate issues that reach many people.
I guess I’m not sure what the goals would be for making English our “official language”.
If the goal is to simplify government materials to English only (with no Spanish or Korean translations), then I’m on board. It would save time and money for governments across America. It would also absolve potential lawsuits against government bodies if translations are not crystal clear.
If the goal is to try forcing people to learn English, I think that is overreaching and stepping on other peoples’ rights to do what they want. Smart or not, people do have the right to not learn a new language. It would also be foolhardy to try enforcing tests, etc.
I think the net effect would be an increase in immigrants learning English, if they knew our national policy was not to cater to them in their native languages.
As far as accepting pesos, many businesses in other countries accept U.S. dollars without protest. They can accept yarn for payment and it’s up to that business to decide.
I think they could and should have an extra surcharge for accepting those pesos, since the owners have to make the time to exchange them for dollars. That way, accepting pesos would provide even more profit.
I would support making English our official language in government functions, and leave it at that.
I wonder where people got the idea that if English were an official language, the government would force people to learn it. We’re not force to own a bald eagle as a pet …
Anyway, for those who don’t know, an official language is 1) a national statement of identity and 2) a mandate to normalize cultural norms into the public sector. So yes, Joe, the effect on government would be limited to those public sectors, such as government papers, etc. One plus factor is that with a national language, our schools would be streamlined under the national language. All public notices would be printed in English. So, if someone wishes to participate in public life, one is almost sure to learn or refine his or her English skills.
I guess I have a different view of things, though. It’s been documented that language, more than any other factor, has led to unity and division, depending on how it was used. Europe was formed, during the middle-ages, not according to racial groups or politics, but according to the two main languages: Latin in the south and Germanic in the north. Language is a part of a nation’s identity, and can influence its future, whether for good or bad.
Yes, English should be adopted as our national language. And outside of emergency services nothing should be offered from the government in spanish. You can’t regulate private business but you can government and public funded things. Speak english or bring your own interpreter. Don’t expect an interpreter to be supplied to you.
I’ve got no problem with immigration plans that have an earned citizenship. It would be pretty simple in my plan:
1. Live here full time for at least five years.
2. Hold a job that pays taxes during that time and be able to show you’ve been paying.
3. Obey our laws during that time.
4. Pass a citizenship test in ENGLISH thus guaranteeing your willing live with our culture if not wholly embrace it.
I’m not sure where I stand on this. I’ve never met any limited-English speakers that don’t already understand that English is in fact the official language of the United States, so I ‘m not sure who such proposed legislation would be aimed at. Couple of things come to mind:
the effect on government would be limited to those public sectors, such as government papers
How comprehensive do you see the definition of “papers”? Idaho H&W, and the federal government, have an incredible variety of non-English publications designed to help limited-English parents protect, nurture, and educate their children, many of whom are US citizens. Those citizens would suffer, with no effective recourse, if those publications disappeared.
What about pamphlets in other languages that let victims of domestic violence know what legal protection and services are available to them?
One plus factor is that with a national language, our schools would be streamlined under the national language.
Not sure exactly what benefit is expected from schools being streamlined, here. I assume it’s ultimately related to money. Any idea how much money is spent in Idaho on classes taught in a language other than English?
Does English as a official language imply a strong right for minor citizens to be effectively taught English? If so, would there then be an offset in the above savings due to an increase in funds for teaching English? Would those citizens be able to sue if they weren’t adequately prepared?
Question: since schools are divisions of states, not the federal government, who would determine how “English-only” was implemented, who would pay for implementation, and how does it affect federal/state control?
Another question: Twenty-five states already have English-only laws. California has been English-only for more than 20 years, Florida for 18. Is there any objective documentation of the effects of those laws? Have their schools been streamlined? Have the laws brought unity?
What about the states with two official languages (Hawaii and Louisiana)?
I find it interesting that there are about 65 countries where English is an official language (some, like Canada and the Phillippines have two).
Four where it’s not: the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand.
Great questions and points, John.
You asked, “Any idea how much money is spent in Idaho on classes taught in a language other than English?”
That would be important information for everyone to know. I regularly hear stories of classroom populations dragging behind because of so many Mexican kids not knowing English. However, those are all anecdotal, and we need true cost figures. Anecdotal stories are powerful, but don’t paint the whole picture.
We should study the effects (and non-effects) of English-only in California and Florida. Those two are interesting because they are probably the most ethnically diverse areas of America (besides New York City).
I think I read our legislature is about to pass this.
I don’t think it actually costs us anything, but prevents the state from having to publish voter materials in multiple languages?
If so I support it.
Great post John and Joe.
Having lived in S.Florida for more than 30 years, I can tell you that even with Florida having English as the “offical language” for more than 18 years has really little to no effect on such a diverse ethnic population. And yes the government does make you take an English class to learn the “basics” whether they move here or are just off the boat in order to become a citizen of the United States, However with that being said, there are many communities in South Florida that are over 95% Spanish speaking. The same goes with Haitian, Columbian, Brazilian, Jamaican and Russian populations just to name the most popular. The two largest in Miami being the Cuban and Hatian population. Both of which have nicknamed their communities “Little Haiti” & and “Little Cuba”. I can tell you from first hand experience if you happen to get lost in either community and don’t know the local language, you had better have a GPS system in your car because you’ll have a rough time finding anyone around that speaks enough English to be able to give you ANY type of directions.
So you see…even though Florida has English as their “official language”, that really has no effect whatsoever in many communities. And I know the same goes with a number of communities in New York and California as well.
What I’m trying to say here is what REALLY is the point?? Our country was based on immigrants. You’ll never get everyone to adopt an English only policy no matter how many laws are passed. People will speak the language their most comfortable speaking. And the government will continue to put out many different language versions of government forms to directions on putting a bicycle together to instructions to take your driving test. I don’t see this ever going away, nor do I think it should.
I grew up in a diverse part of Los Angeles. I felt lucky that I could go to my friend Mona’s home and eat garlic naan and hear Hindu prayers – spoken in an Indian dialect. I could visit my friend Pearl’s home and eat with chop sticks while they spoke to each other in Chinese (really fast). When I visited my friend Fatima I watched her mom make tamales and she taught me a little bit of Spanish.
These people all were PROUD to be from Somewhere Else – yet to be Here too. I thought that was wonderful. I was in fact envious of their ability to be in two different cultures @ once.
I don’t think we should try to force adults to speak American. I think all children in US schools should be taught it – and I believe that if one wants to be better HEARD in the USA then to be able to articulate the most commonly used language would be an asset.
But to force it – no way. There’s no freedom of choice in that.
As for the flags – I’m all for free expression. Whatever flag a person cares to wave, may they do so proudly.
GREAT topic, thanks!
I liked Gingrich’s recent remarks on English.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html
I definitely agree that election materials and ballots should only be produced in English, because of the common sense that all new citizens had to pass an history test in English.
So the new thing was he proposed abolishing bilingual education, which is teaching non-english speaking kids the normal school subjects (math, science, etc.) in their native language.
If you think about it, teaching subjects in their native language really is coddling the kids.
I liked that Gingrich proposed the new strategy of funding intensive English immersion education in place of bilingual education.
I figure if the costs are nearly the same, then it makes much more sense to put those kids on a fast track to knowing English.
I’m all for teaching USA kids a “universally taught” language.
I disagree that ANY language should be “official” though. Why stop there? Why not have an “official” way to think? How about an “official” religion? Some of us in Eastern Idaho might understand how joyful THAT could be.
If one gives it enough time then “outsider” languages will end up underground, de-valued, disrespected, shoved under the rug – then we WON’T see Mexican or Italian or other flags. While some people might find that okay, I think it’s wretched. It reeks of Imperialistic thinking, which, in my personal opinion, has been nothing short of dangerous to the entire planet. WHY create more of the same? “Our language is best – use it or lose”.
I DO believe if one wants to get by better in any particular country, then it just makes good sense to learn the most commonly used language, but to make it “official” – that just seems too Big Brother to me. “Speak [native tongune] – get relegated to the glue factory – we don’t want your language HERE. We’re Americans, proud and right.”
Blech. That seems entirely UNAmerican to me.
Without calling it official, can you agree our money and efforts would be better spent in intensive English immersion education in place of bilingual education?
Say what you will about the LDS church, but don’t they have a really slick way of teaching their missionaries new languages in just a couple months?
Perhaps aspects of their language learning model could be adopted for teaching immigrant kids English in the fastest way possible.
It absolutely makes sense to spend money getting all kids to understand the teaching of a single teacher.
I’m not entirely sure an LDS model of language instruction (designed for adults) would be the most proficient way to teach a five year old kid, but, I could be wrong on that. If it IS the best way – then employing it just makes good sense. I DO believe though that conversational language skills and written / grammatical skills might be different – I KNOW it is with Spanish (boy do I know). As I understand it – LDS missionaries are instructed in conversational language skills – somebody tell me if I’m misinformed.
I also agree there should be nothing “official” about our nation’s language. I DO believe if your kids are enrolled in public school, they will be expected to learn One Universal Language that will be used during the remainder of their K – 12 education.
I’m all for gettting kids educated – and knowing the Universally Taught Language of the USA is a reasonable way of achieving that.
I’m also for letting adults alone – to learn or not learn a language as they choose. To speak in whichever language they prefer. To talk about things I can’t understand in front of me if they want to. To raise their home nation’s flag if they want. Letting freedom ring loud and clear.
Ehhh, good points on adult vs. child learning, and conversational vs. written language use.
In any case, I’m sure we could narrow down a couple excellent language programs to teach English intensively.
The more I think about it, the more I like Gingrich’s ideas on transforming bilingual education into intensive English education.
Is this a plan we can execute on the Idaho state level, so we don’t have to wait for the feds?
It’s a bit of a slippery slope comparing an official language to an official religion – most countries have an official language, just like most countries (including the US) have official symbols, such as flags and state and national animals, plants, etc. It’s a matter of identity, not of conformity. National Identity matters – without it, well, nationalism and even borders are essentially baseless.
I say why wait for the feds?
I think, Jeremy, that if our current fearless leader had his way, we’d all be “strongly encouraged” to be Christian. Christians would get tax benefits etc. that – say – pagans could not.
Slippery Slope indeed. THAT’S why people like me keep an eye on these things.
Gypsy
Christians already get tax benefits – but so do pagans. It’s called the religion tax-exempt status.
Look, I’ve been on the other side of the coin. I’ve been an atheist much longer than I’ve been Christian – and the only reason I’m better off now than when I was atheist is because I lead a healthier life now. No tax benefits, no real social benefits, no government programs that only help Christians … dang, I really wish there were some programs that made the government encourage Christianity, I’d be rolling in it!
Don’t most countries stick to their dominant languages, or do many other modern/western/industrialized nations cater to minority languages?
Here’s a list http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0855611.html
of official languages. You decide.
Jeremy,
I think you missed my point. It was not that “religions WOULD get tax bennies” it was that (for instance) the pres we have now (who likes to have his his his way no matter what what what – I picture him as a little kid stompin his feet) would pick ONE of those religions to be “official” if he could – offering THAT faith to be given Superemecy Over All Others (the non-official faiths).
THAT is why I don’t think we should have a legally defined official language – it’s telling people how they MUST communicate if they really want to have an official voice.
I would hate to be told I MUST be Christian (instead of any other faith) – that Christianity is the “offical” faith of the USA. I have nothing against that style of faith, ut it most certainly is not for me.
Ther is no doubt in my mind that the sociopathic guy we have in office right now would DO such a thing if he could (make Christiantiy the official faith) – so who is to say some other strange-thinking US leader wouldn’t want to declare “En;lish” as the official language – meaning – if you speak any language other than English – your words aren’t official.
Slippery slope, like you said.
I see.
To counter that, I can simply cite the Constitution. We are guaranteed protection from a state religion … not from a state language. The constitution in this case, and in many others, acts as a guard rail against the slippery slope.
“Faith Based Initiatives” is one creative way to try to skirt around that.
But you get my point – the reason why I don’t want an “official” language is the same reason I don’t want an “official” faith – I do not believe people in the US should be pressured into certain personal choices.
Great topic.
B. I have done a lot of research on the topic, acquired information from many different sources and firmly believe that…(ethos)
C. English should definitely be changed to the national language of America. It would unify Americans and make it easier to communicate, both politically and in everyday life, also we could save tax dollars by not printing everything repeatedly, to add to that many people already know the language regardless of the country or ethnic background that they come from.
II. Changing the Language would Unify Americans
A. They say that changing the national language to English would help to unify Americans I would agree.
B. If we all spoke the same language we could sort out problems better because of our understanding of each other. There wouldn’t be any misunderstanding with interpretation or translation.
C. It would also bring us together culturally. If we all spoke the same language right off the bat, people would have something in common. It would be easier for many people, no matter what background or country they come from to set aside there differences and get to know the other.
III We could save tax dollars if everyone spoke the same language.
A. Some documents and recordings have to be repeated and printed numerous times for people in our country.
B. It would be pleasing to the citizens of America and many others if we could put our tax dollars towards something more helpful, or something that we really need.
C. Some things are printed in numerous languages. Private Industries choose to dot his and sometimes so does the government. If we only print some things in other languages then why not everything? Trying to make things easier on people who learned to speak Spanish as a first language or people who don’t speak it at all, is not fair. Especially when it makes it harder because not everything is in two languages just some selected things.
D. Another point I would like to add is that all of our declarations and congressional forms are all in English. English is the national language of the country that wee broke away from and our documents are not going to change.
III. Many people in other countries already speak English.
A. Globalization or Americanization is something that is already spreading throughout the world.
B. Governors, presidents and other authoritative figures, or representatives from other countries all speak English already. But in their countries they don’t print everything twice in English, like we do in America for Spanish people.
C. Although some people may argue that, that is what’s part of what makes America a better place, we still need to have some standards set for our citizens.
1. If we do not have some of these standards set then illegal immigrants who are invading our country will find it easier to assimilate and blend in with the American environment therefore dodging the law.
2. We already have a problem with this and do not want in to escalate.
IIV In the end.
A. In the end it needs to be recognized that making English the national language of America would affect many things.
B. It would affect America for the better.
1. We would be able to better regulate illegal immigrants
2. We would unify the people
3. Tax dollars would be cut down
4. America would just all together be a better place to live.
Interesting way of making an argument. But effective. Perhaps I should try the “speech outline” method.
I am all for having English proclaimed as the “Official Language” of the United States. All of the reasons that support this in my mind have been mentioned here already. It just makes sense, and I must admit, I get very frustrated when I hear “For English, please press 1.” No other country that I have been in went out of their way like that to accomidate me. They expected me to learn their language.
On the same token, we’re the only nation that doesn’t require our students to take a second language in school. When children in other countries are learning at least 1 or 2 other languages as part of their standard curriculum. So what does that say about us as a nation?
Once again, we need to stop whining about it and learn to live with it. This nation was founded on immigrants and foreigners.
The saying on the Statue of Liberty reads: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
I don’t recall any part of it saying, “Don’t come to our country unless you’re going to learn the language”.
This is a real problem with our country and one Jeremy should have added to his little list….too many people whining about insignifigant things.
We don’t realize how good we as Americans really have it. We take our freedoms and so much in life for granted and it’s really quite sad.
Try starting out one morning with a piece paper and pen in your pocket or make a mental note of every time you complain about something. Just put a little mark down every time you complain and for everything that bothers you throughout that day. At the end of the day look at your list and see how many marks you have. I gaurentee you’ll be surprised at how much each one of us whine and complain about the most insignifigant things throughout the day.
I did this a couple of months ago and really didn’t think I whined that much, but I’m just as guilty as the next person. I was shocked so see so many marks on my paper. Since doing that I’ve learned to catch myself before needlessly complaining or whining about life’s little bumps in the road.
With all of the problems in this world, I’d say we as Americans have it pretty easy. Be thankful that you don’t live in a third world country where they actually have real problems to deal with each day.
Ok,
so if we’re supposed to start printing in English Only as this article suggests when they say “nearly all government materials will be printed in English only,” then as a Proud Citizen, of this state (which will be named later), I hereby renounce, forget, and refuse to say aloud the following foreign words Payette, Boise, Malad, Coeur d’Alene, St. Maries, Montpelier, Culdesac,
Dubois, Grangeville, Paris, Teton, Bellevue, Nez Perce County, Geneva, Paris, Dufort, Butte County, Payette County, Belmont, Leon, Boone, Lalia Phipps, Nez Perce, (from Idaho Place Names: A Geographical Dictionary. Moscow, Idaho: University of Idaho Press; 1988.) and Kootenai, Shoshone Bannock, Tensed (was supposed to be Desmet backwards, so it’s not really English, it’s just made up)
Speaking of made up! Check out this article, It bears mentioning when addressing Printing in Proper American English. Could the name Idaho be really just a bunch of jibbersih? (oops did I just say that? I meant,…a bunch of rubbish)
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/4118/
If it’s not a real name recognized by Danny Webster, I don’t wanna use the I-d-a-h-o thingy. Let’s start changing names and all those government publications to reflect the fact that we support them and we don’t wanna use all them foreigner fakey words listed above including that strange I-d-a-h-o name. I knew there was something strange about this state’s name.
And while we’re at it. Let’s take Congress’ lead and get rid of all of those frenchy sounding words. No more French Fries and no more Coeur d’Alene!
Let’s call it Hagadone Valley. Didn’t Duane have some sort of vision somewhere in the streets of what we call Coeur d’Alene? So we can name it after him now right? As it stands, we can’t tell you where Hadagone was born because it was the coeur d’Frenchy word again. So, if this bill passes, we’re gonna all have to get together and decide where Duane was born. And his newspaper! Oh My God! What are we gonna name this Coeur d’Frenchy Newspaper?
Aww hell, let’s call it Duane’s Paper.
Now about those street signs, those addresses, those city names, those, those, those people.
Oh my God! What are we gonna call those foreign people living here?
This is horrible! Let’s start by calling everybody who isn’t from here foreigners.
Ok, so let’s see….English, we can call them English, French, we can call them yellow, (just kidding!) Let’s call French Nationals scardy cats! (that’s English right?)
Now about everybody’s name. If it hasn’t been anglicized, please form a line right behind the Indians who just got their Anglicized names. Kim, Jin Mun, you will be…..Billy. Josefina Madrigal, your sacred English name will forever from this day forward be….”Bob!”
We can’t put Toyota or Honda Cars on government contracts either. And I’m pretty sure that since the state puts some money into the infrastructure for all communications, we should decide on like a demerit system for using foreign words, names, brands, city name places, and street signs and letter heads. Let’s say $1.00 dollar gets you 10 demerits. So it will cost us 10 cents for each time we use a non-English name.
So much to do, I better go and write my local leaders and let Billy Smith (can’t call him by his Gaelic name, “Currie”) know that I support this effort one hundred percent. Oops, there I go again using that foreign prefix “per” in the percent. Damn, I think I’ll just call Mike Crapo up because apparently he understands this legislation. Afterall he is one. He is one legislator who has undergone Anglicizing from Crépaux to Crapo. Nice to see somebody’s already on board.
That’s the biggest stream of consciousness I’ve ever seen here that would have been awesome if it had not gone off on such an illogical tangent from the start.
Please indicate if you understand the difference between proper names and common language?
Proper names can be anything, even made up words like Google, Twitter, Digg, etc.
Common language is the bridge between us all.
You do not need to understand the meaning of a proper name to understand it is the label for something or someone.
You do need to understand the common language to forge those bridges between us.
Not being able to understand the common language in a country essentially handicaps a person. Does that person choose to learn the country’s common language, or do they chose to try making everyone learn their minority-use language?
That is the conflict driving English-only laws.
Thank you “Red of Boise”, very well put! We are a Nation of immigrants and we just need to accept that there will be people that speak other languages. I’m willing to bet those that are for this idea don’t speak any other language other than English.
So what if government forms are printed in English AND Spanish? Is it affecting you personally?
So what if everytime you call the bank to check on your balance you have to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish? Is it affecting you personally? So what if everything from the toilet paper you buy to the to that flat screen tv has instructions in a dozen languages. You get the point! It’s not affecting us in a negative manner and if it is…than you got much deeper issues that need to be dealt with professionally.
Even if we DO make it our “official language”, who is going to enforce it? Its absurd.
Also, companies will never stop printing their instruction manuals, warranties, etc in multiple languages. Anyone who’s purchased any type of electronics will tell you the instruction book that comes with it is printed in a number of different languages, which is necessary for the import & export of goods.
Why…I ask? To bring people together? To bridge the gap? It really doesn’t make much sense being that we are a nation of immigrants. Other countries aren’t like this because they’ve been “nations” longer than we have. Plus they don’t have hundreds of thousands of people trying to obtain citizenship into their country each year like we do.
Surely there are more important issues going on in our world than worrying about whether or not English is our official language. It’s not like we can’t carry on with our lives each day because we can’t understand the people we interact with on a daily basis or you can’t find a particular form to fill out thats in English. I mean really people….
English is already the most universally spoken language around the world. What more do you want? A qué viene este mundo?
Despiértese y huela a los Españoles! Mi opinión humilde!
“So what if government forms are printed in English AND Spanish? Is it affecting you personally?”
I might be wrong, but doesn’t it cost more money to print forms in multiple languages? There’s the translation costs, the proofing costs to make sure statements are as intended, and extra inventory handling costs for the extra set of items for each type of form.
I think it costs more for these, and yes that does affect us personally through our wasted and increased taxes.
I think the other point many are concerned about is the precedent. Mandarin Chinese is said to be the next biggest language, if we print Spanish forms, we have to print Chinese forms also, right? What about Korean? Vietnamese? Somalian?
At what point does it end? I see the point of trying to hedge this problem early and save our taxes.
If you don’t think it’s a big deal, would you mind paying my extra taxes for those foreign language forms?
If your biggest worry is the cost of the forms in different languages, thats really not going to help your case in getting this language issue resolved.
Ok, lets say you end up getting your way and we do away with those foreign language forms, do you honestly think your taxes will be reduced because of it? I’m sorry, but that’s just wishful thinking. There’s a lot more government waste regarding our tax dollars that are much more important than this petty language issue.
Mind the pennies and the dollars will mind themselves.
You all are missing the biggest pricetag. Small business owners are having to fork out big bucks to print forms, employment posters, employee manuals etc. in Spanish, plus the added burden of having to find some sort of interpreter for these individuals. As a small business owner, these costs come directly out of my pocket. So yes, it is costing me money. My great-grandparents came here from Austria and they learned to speak English before moving to the United States as did most of the immigrants of their time. I wouldn’t dream of moving to a foreign country without learning to speak, read and write the language and I certainly wouldn’t expect the other country to print all of its documents in my language so why should we be asked to do the same?
You have a point there Anonymous. I didn’t think of it from that perspective. Depending on what type of small business you own, I reckon it could get quite expensive.
Hey, I just got back from the Marriott hotel in Salt Lake City…I had a personal example of the cost to me (and others) about the language barrier:
1) I asked a maintenance person to fix a problem in the elevator…there was a slick spill in the next elevator over…it was creating a hazard. The guy didn’t speak a lick of English. He just looked at me like a deer in the headlights and shook his head. So, while going over to report it to the front desk a little girl slipped in the elevator and cut herself on the head!
2) I asked a maid if she had access to a phillips screwdriver to fix my child’s toy. She looked at me and didn’t say a word. She just shrugged her shoulders and looked puzzled. I had to get on the phone and ask a maintenance guy if he had a phone. By the time they transferred me twice, I was waiting on the phone for way too long.
This is irritating at best….at worst, it can cost people their safety and security due to a language barrier. San Diego has to staff it’s 911 services with numerous translators…what kind of price tag do we have to pay to accomodate those that come here that want all that America has to offer without taking on the responsibilities of being a citizen and learning the language to be a part of something, rather than apart from the rest of us?
Why not have a dual language nation? To say America must have only one primary language is somewhat limiting in my view. For instance, the average European speaks three languages. I see no reason why we couldn’t or shouldn’t have a multilingual educational system to help facilitate the cohesion created from effective communication. Taking a more macro view of the issue, globalization is creating ever more opportunities for those who can help facilitate collaboration across linguistic boundaries. In Thomas Friedman’s book “The World is Flat†he makes a case that the next great commodity will be the effective collaborator. I just feel that to limit America to one language seems much too isolationist.
-The Monkey
I liked John Wayne’s message: Why do I have to Press One For English?
Him card read good.
I’m doing homework for this topic in government class and I need the pros and cons. I’m undecided myself but from the views of many of you I believe that most of the views are racist against Mexicans and/or the Spanish language. How can you force someone to learn one of the hardest languages to learn? It takes a lot of effort and time that most people don’t have. I know people that came to the U.S from Laos,and are struggling to learn the language. I would agree for making english an official language for the U.S., but it’s just too hard of a language to force people to learn. The government should be more worried about the national debt were in instead of an official language that has been not needed for many years.
If I went to Laos and told them their language was too hard for me to learn,
that I don’t have the time or effort to learn their language,
so I want them to print everything in my preferred language,
how might they react in Laos?
Laos is not America, Joe.
But I think you already knew that.
The point Joe is trying to make is: if you were to move to Germany, you would have to learn how to speak German in order to make a life for yourself. If you were to move to Brazil, you’d need to learn Portegueze (sp?), Italy (Italian), and so on…..you get the point?
Well the same goes for America. If you decide you want to move to the US to make a better life for yourself, than at least take the time to learn the language.
That’s all most people are saying here.
Just because something is difficult, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. A lot of things in life are hard, that doesn’t mean we give up because it’s too difficult. We try harder. Everyone has the capacity to learn new things. A lot of people have become too lazy though and don’t want to try. And therin lies the problem.
Yeah I’ve seldom bought the “it’s too difficult” argument.
If it’s the case of a difficult process for someone who’s sick or elderly, yeah let’s look at that.
But for something that millions of people do daily, I don’t buy it.
Like when I was in basic training, some guys said it was too difficult and they went through weeks of canceling their contract to get out with dishonorable or medical discharges (yes some even hurt themselves intentionally).
Yeah it was difficult, but millions of others have done it before, so that’s just a lazy excuse.
If it’s a priority, then you’ll do it, you’ll find the time and effort.
I think English-only laws make learning English a priority for immigrants. Without these laws, it would not be a priority.
Slim,
I understand the point you and Joe are trying to sell, but I’m saying that I don’t buy it.
America is a melting pot. I realize that those that live in Idaho don’t realize this, but take a trip to L.A. Visit NYC. Go to Miami. Take a stroll through the streets of Chicago. America is a land of diversity. That’s what makes this country great.
That’s what makes this country different from Japan, or England, or France, or Germany. We embrace our diversity and we don’t exclude anyone because of the language they speak or the color of their skin. Or at least, we shouldn’t.
What I find most troubling about this whole debate is this: why are white, English speaking people even concerned about this as an issue? You can go anywhere you want in America and be able to communicate. Changing the “official” language to English isn’t going to make that HARDER.
The fact of the matter is that this is a completely xenophobic issue. That much is pretty clear.
I totally agree with you JP. I was only trying to illustrate the point Joe was making. I’ve been all over this country, and have enjoyed all the different cultures that are so abundant in every big city. I for one don’t think it matters. As long as people can communicate with the people around them, than live and let live.
I can also understand the other side as well. It gets annoying when someone goes into a local market and doesn’t know enough English to get them by and it makes it difficult on the rest of us. Whether their holding up the line, or whatever the case may be.
I understand America is built on immigrants, and that’s what makes this such a great place with the diversity and different cultures.
On the other hand, I think its important for said immigrants to at least learn enough to be able to carry on a conversation with the rest of America. Whether its order food from a restaraunt, getting their oil changed at Jiffy Lube or making plane reservations. I’ve lived in a number of larger cities and its amazing how many foreigners there are living here, that barely know two words of English. I say take a 4-6 week course and familarize yourself with the local language. (which happens to be English) They don’t have to be fluent, but at least be able to communicate with their fellow Americans.
I understand both sides point of view. I’m just leaning towards the “it doesn’t bother me” side.
This wouldn’t be a problem in other countries though as you either learn the language or you go without. Even though we have a larger immigration population than most other countries, there ARE many people all over the world that immigrate to Germany, Italy, Brazil, etc etc. (and the point is,they learn the local language)
I hear you, Slim. Good points.
To me, my waiter or cashier or whatever not being able to speak English is less of a cultural issue and more of a customer service issue.
If you are annoyed that your waiter doesn’t speak English well enough, complain to the manager about his customer service training. If it doesn’t improve, choose not to patronize said establishment. If enough people would do that, managers would learn to hire people that speak English.
So instead of doing something about it ourselves and taking action, we complain about how the (insert ethnic minority here) are overrunning our city/state/country. It’s just laziness on our part as white, English-speakers.
There are a lot of people who think that just because they can speak perfect English, that everyone else should too. I, however, am not one of those people. Just because I can speak perfect English, doesn’t mean that everyone else should too. I am proud that I am Mexican-American and I prefer to speak Spanish over English. It is true that I was born here in California and that I have lived here ever since, but my heart will always belong to Mexico.
I feel that it is wrong to make English the official language here in the U.S. it is ridiculous. This whole country is based on the fact that if not you, but your ancestors were immigrants. Because of this fact, everyone wants to feel at home, this is why they feel that they should speak the language that they were brought up with. Some people just plainly refuse to speak English because they live here for the benefits, but they hate the way this country is. There are racist people looking from every corner just waiting for the chance to screw you over, then there are the prejudice people who live next door to you. The second that they see you, they think that when they turn your back, you’re going to break into their house. Tell me, how in God’s green earth am I supposed to put up with these people and go along with their rules, if they respect me? Everywhere I go, people (without even knowing me) already think I’m about to do something illegal.
Everywhere on this page, people are saying that everyone should speak English because it would unify this country and bring us more closely together. I just have simple answer, WHAT COUTNRY????? The majority are racists, we even have the KKK. Just the other day I went in to get my mustang some new rims, and I was waiting for an hour for an White mechanic (not being a racist, just saying the race) to finish another car, and all of a sudden, another White person comes in and asks for an oil change. With blink of an eye, the car was already inside the garage, and my brand-new mustang was still waiting. I ask you, YOU WANT ME TO TEACH MY FAMILY ENGLISH SO THAT I MAY STILL BE TREATED LIKE CRAP?????????? It makes no sense, people are still going to be racists, and it’s not going to change. Let’s remember What one major reason of the Civil War; RACISM. Explain to me JeremyPlo why the hell should I care, I’m still going to be treated like crap anyways, and I speak perfect English. Imagine how it feels to those Hispanic people who don’t know anything about the English Language. Speaking English isn’t going to help any, it’ll just make things worse.
Most quick service tire and oil places I have ever been to have separate garages for oil changes and tires. Do you label everyone who you are impatient with a racist?
Also real great statement there,
“they live here for the benefits, but they hate the way this country is.”
Speaks for itself I don’t think I even need to say anything else about it.
That quote Idajo cited was the big thing I read also.
Conversation gets cut off at the knees when everyone is generalized with the racist label.
Language is a unifying factor in society. When we can’t speak to each other it further widens the gap of misunderstanding. Additionally, it assists in building up walls associated with unwarranted stereotypes, bigotry, and other unwanted forms of conduct. No one is suggesting that by learning english that one has to give up their ethnic heritage trappings. What is suggested is that learning english is what is best for the entire country, and the individuals that immigrate to this country. Too many people want to have their rights observed at the expense of the rest of us.
So, we get JL saying it’s xenophobic, Ms. Salazar who says it’s racism at work, and Slim who doesn’t really care one way or the other. I would argue that it does matter because otherwise we will become isolated pockets of persons. This gives racists more ability to further marginalize groups of people because they are not involved in debate and sharing their experiences, wants and desires because of a language barrier. As for this being xenophobic, that is ridiculous. For years immigrants learned the language and assimilated as Americans. Read that-as Americans-not Latinos, Germans, Russians. A melting pot still requires a unifying language for all of the races to cohabitate. This is a practical reality….and not some cooked up racist plot against people of color. Once again, emotions seem to be elevated over practical realities of everyday life. Some people want let their feelings rule the day. I will say it again-the reality of the situation is that this country needs a unified common language. Without it our economy will suffer, classes of people will suffer, and individual persons who refuse to learn the english language will get left in the dust. These are the unintended consequences of those that fail to think with their brains and instead think from their hearts.
Whaddya know! One of the new laws that was just passed last week includes English being Idaho’s official language. And government offices will no longer spend the money to print legal documents, forms, etc in other languages.
I figured somebody would have posted something on this new law by now. So what are your thoughts on this new law? Other than saving some money with printing, will it really change things that much?
I agree with “Slim” on this. I can understand both points of view.
yes
Can you expand on your “yes” answer anon? How do you think it will change things having English being Idahos official language now? Do you honestly think the Spanish speaking folk will stop speaking Spanish? Or the Chinese folk stop speaking Chinese? Do you think we’re going to stop seeing spanish directions printed on many of our food products?
Aside from money saved on the printing of “government” forms, I don’t see any other benefits from it.
If you do, please share your thoughts with the class.
Thanks!
(Mario’s feelings) Yes! Just look at the name of our country, United States of America. The American language is English. If foreigners want to come to America that is absolutely ok with me, but not if they don’t want to learn english and give every american a migrane. Taking a foreign language back in school was just unimportant. Never will I a talk in a langauge except my own. If that how foreign people feel, then they should be living in there own foreign country. Again they are very welcome to come and go Surfin USA but just speak english along the way. Singing the national Anthem in Spanish is a no go to me. It’s an American song about our passed wars and should be sung in english and english only. I agree with Jeremy all of the way folks.
I think we should make English the official language as a pre-emptive move against some “well-meaning” congressman adding a rider to some piece of legislation making Spanish our official language. We’re all going to feel real foolish about our blatant attempts to be PC on that day. I don’t care if I hurt someone’s feelings by saying I believe English should be the official language and we’ve seen this type of slick maneuvering before. I think we should stop trying to lay out a million reasons why we shouldn’t do it and get it done before we find ourselves trying to lay out a million reasons why we need to change it back to English from Spanish.
Que?
WTH?
HUH?
Querido Observador del Interior,
Gracias por sus comentos. Le aseguro quo tomaremos sus opiniones y pensamientos en consideracion en el futuro.
Que tenga un buen dia.
yo quireo Taco Bell!
NOT
I saw this and thought it fit with this conversation.
http://www.youtube.com/v/sEJfS1v-fU0
Awesome post. Loved the clip. Shows alot of different nationalities spending time to learn english in classes. I bet they were better off for it while they lived and worked here.
Thanks Proud American!
To quote an old adage,
“The Native Americans found out what happens when you don’t control immigration.”
And not to get too religious, but hey, does anybody remember the Tower of Babel? They had a few problems there when everyone didn’t speak the same language. Immigrants want to live here, and I say go for it, but they should live here on America’s terms, not their own. AFTER, I repeat, AFTER, they have become citizens, they are then entitled to make any effort their hearts desire to effect a change in our laws, such as requiring that we all learn to speak their native tongue rather than their having to learn ours. And for now, the law requires that they learn English to become citizens. The Bill of Rights is a great document, and some rights are granted to “citizens”, and others are granted to “all persons”. If immigrants want the rights granted to the citizens, and not just those granted to all persons, they have to learn English. And after they learn to speak English, and are granted citizenship, I will fully support their right to petition the goverment to make Spanish the official language and require my children and grandchildren to learn to speak Spanish. Right now, their school curriculums require that they take the foreign language of their choice such as French, German, Spanish or Italian. My current vote is in support of that system but I’m open to dialog on why non-English speaking, non-citizens are controlling the debate on this subject.
What are America’s terms, IO?
The terms are that you are functional enough to pass a basic English test. That’s it.
You keep referring to immigrants living here on “America’s terms.” Bottom line is that they do. The terms are set, and those who gain citizenship have met those terms. What you are proposing is changing America’s terms.
Let’s just make that point clear.
I like my spouse’s idea. To come here illegally and excpect to gain rights and citizenship, you have to learn English, then serve xx amount of time in our armed forces. Women and children would have some other sort of expectation. At the very least mandatory school for those under 18.
There are so many juveniles, even in SE Idaho, who come, work the fields, and enroll in school when they are finished or bored. Then, to find out they can’t earn any graduation credit for coming and going halfway through each semester sends them out the door again, or turns them into mass behavior issues if their parents force them to stay in school. There are some exceptions, but then a lot head to Mexico for a month every Christmas break. Crazy.
On the language topic, what a huge amount of time school districts here are having to spend translating many of their forms and policy manuals into Spanish. You don’t, and the parents say, “we didn’t know it was a rule/policy/etc.” Many illegal immigrant kids get placed into special ed classes, ESL classes, or remedial classes. Just ask anyone in our rural districts across Idaho what a challenge and drain it has become. But, I think we should try to educate them with at least a little math and English rather than let them drop out, so the lesser of two evils is chosen. You can’t even ask a family when they enroll if they are legally here, but we can tell or find out pretty easily. So, then what? Immigration won’t deport them unless they are causing problems.
We are bending way too much towards their demands. There has to be some sort of fair, common ground we meet on.
I liked the analogy Glenn Beck shared the other day about how public education is an example of how our children are being held back to make allowances for other children to catch up…we wouldn’t want to leave anyone behind now would we?
He was speaking about how in many districts schools have to provide additional services to non-English speaking students to help bring them along. This costs more tax dollars and is a drain on resources for students that already know English and are ready to proceed.
This is yet another example why English needs to be the required language in this country.
Here is the link to the article referenced:
http://www.glennbeck.com/news/07092007.shtml
Jp,
There’s actually a little more to America’s terms than speaking a little smattering of English. See
http://www.us-immigration-attorney.com/citizenship.htm
i just wanted to say that both sides of this argument are strong and well-supported. i found this site through google because i am writing a paper that is either for or against having english as an official language.
this is a great reference for my decision. i just want to thank you all for your input!
:]
con:
-some immigrants cannot afford english classes
-some people cannot invest their time for classes
-america is known for its diversity so we should preserve it
-could be used to further lower native american attempts to revive their culture and language
-limits freedom of speech
-it is an act of cowardice for americans
-a lot of culture is lost from language
pro:
-english would unite america with one language
-people would easily be able to communicate with one another
-printing in one language would be cheaper and waste less
-decrease illegal immigration
-easier buisness transactions
-most of US already understands English
-wouldnt be forcing people to learn it
-people can also still speak their native language
-decrease racism
I’m reading peoples opinions about the debate on an official language and I am still in the process of deciding for myself how I feel about the topic. My only comment is regarding the use of pesos. I would like to know why that is a controversy but not the opposite problem up north. Anyone who lives in the north have purchased items thousands of times with the Canadian quarter and nobody seems to have a problem with that. Should Canadian money also be banned?
I wonder what the language of the North American Union is going to be? Also, I wouldn’t worry about the currency issue, the Amero will economically unify us.
While I agree that those coming here should learn the language, we need to understand that many of those fleeing other countries are doing so out of fear for their lives, namely, Mexico.
A new government has taken over and the war of the drug lords is now stronger than ever as the new government attempts to fight them. Innocent people are being kidnapped and tortured to death. It’s no longer the druggies who are the target.
So my question is, where is there an acceptable compromise? It’s very difficult for them to obtain citizenship in the US and often costs them far more money than they have. And scammers love to get money from them and then fail to help.
Most try very hard to learn the language, but English is a difficult language to learn. And I for one, would like to learn spanish. I like the idea that many of the hispanics/latinos in our area have retained their culture while learning the American way. I wish my own family had. Although they are not hispanic, they wanted to “Americanize” us all. But, the language where my family is from, is not used here at all that I am aware of.
Instead of determining that it should be English and English only, where is a happy middle ground? In most countries, people are taught more than one language. Why not here?
Again, I agree that English should be a learned language for those coming over. But can we meet them half way?
I think we have met them half-way. But at the same time, it’s costing us more money because THEY won’t learn the language enough to be proficient at reading it. Thus the problem with government forms being printed in Spanish. You can’t even go into a grocery store these days without almost every product having spanish written on the packaging as well. Who do you think pays for this? We do as taxpayers.
They, meaning? Actually, many have learned the language while others are trying very hard to learn it. I’m not sure it’s fair to categorize them all. “They” also do a lot of work that most of us won’t do. And for a mere pittance. And “they” are taxpayers, just like the rest of us if legal. If not, they still pay grocery tax, gasoline tax, etc., while awaiting citizenship.
For those who are illegal, which is another story, they do not have the benefits that we do either. Many seem to think they are all on welfare. That’s not true. They can’t collect welfare with the exception of having a hospital bill paid for by medicaid on the delivery of a child. Prenatal care isn’t even included, so many go without. Imagine.
Imagine for just a moment, you have children. The drug lords have hit your neighborhood, cousin, brother, aunt? Would you want to pack up your family and get out? Or, would you be content waiting a few years (if you have the money which many don’t) for your citizenship to be final and the time it takes to learn a foreign language?
All I’m saying is there has to be a happy medium and I don’t see one. And no, I don’t believe that some writing on a box is a happy medium.
There are as many hispanics living in Idaho alone, as the population of Blackfoot. That’s a lot! Surely you don’t believe that they don’t contribute?
Abby,
It seems that you have alot of sympathy for illegals coming into the United States. While it is laudible to be concerned about their plight we need to be concerned about our country. If the United States were to allow unfettered immigration (legal and illegal) into the country we would see even more of a drain on resources–medical/hospitals, jails, education, as well as food and water. (Look at the problems Georgia is having with water availability). The more people we try to pack into the country the scarcer goods and services will become–and costs will rise. Some call it selfish–what they fail to realize that we cannot support everyone without driving down our own standard of living. The quicker we come to this realization the better and safer we will all be. The Mexican government and it’s people need to take responsibility for their plight and fix their own problems without exporting their poor to us.
Yeah, we’ve got to save our resources for the spreading of democracy. . .
Well I think they help the economy. I guess I’d like to see any of you do some of the work that they do on the money they make.
And let’s hope, that if our country ever becomes as deteriorated as theirs, someone has some sympathy on us.
I hear way too many people get angry at them and why? Of course there are the less than honorable ones, there are everywhere. But most are good people with strong work ethics who deserve better for themselves and their families.
Are illegal immigrants generally a net benefit or net drain to America’s economy? How about Idaho’s economy?
I am all for immigration to the USA as long as they are legal. I was in a conversation with some legal immigrants the other day and they are just as discouraged with the illegals as anyone else. According to them, a lot of the illegals that are coming over now are coming for the free ride. They don’t want to work, they are here for what bennies they can get. These same legal immigrants said that it is embarrassing to them that this is happening.
I am a little concerned with what is happening in the school systems also. I have noticed that this year that everything that comes home from the school is printed in both English and Spanish. The teachers are having to spend a lot of time catching the non-English speaking students up at the expense of the other students. IMO, these students should be placed in a special school where they can learn the language and their studies and then transition to the other schools. I think it would be a win-win for all concerned. Let me state again, that I am all for immigration, but only if it is legal and not at the expense of our school children.
Great Post Idaho Native. You point out some of the costs to our local communities….and more importantly, the costs to our children of increased class sizes, language barriers, and the drag on teachers trying to bring along those less proficient due to language differences.
Here is another fun little story about one of my favorite Democrats:
Taken from Fox News:
“House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is trying to kill an amendment that would shield from lawsuits — employers who require their workers to speak English.
The Wall Street Journal reports one of those employers being targeted by an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission lawsuit is The Salvation Army — which gives employees one year to learn English. The amendment to protect The Salvation Army and other businesses has passed both the House and Senate. But Pelosi promised to get rid of it after the House Hispanic Caucus threatened to kill a larger tax bill over the issue.
The sponsor of the amendment — Tennessee Republican Senator Lamar Alexander — told the Senate Thursday — “I cannot imagine that the framers of the 1964 Civil Rights Act intended to say that it’s discrimination for a shoe shop owner to say to his or her employee, ‘I want you to be able to speak America’s common language on the job.’”
Nice, so the Salvation Army tells an employee to learn English–gives them over a year–they don’t bother to learn English. The SA fires the person and gets sued. That is ridiculous….last time I checked this is America and English is spoken here. Anyone have a problem with the treatment businesses that demand English be spoken are receiving?
Idaho Native; What “bennies”? I’m not sure who you got your information from, but I know many legals, and that statement is far fetched. There are no “bennies”. How long have these “legals” been in the states? Do they have family in Mexico? Where in Mexico? I’d check your sources. Illegals are not given “bennies” in the states, regardless of what they may believe.
Ever heard the term anchor babies? These are the children of illegal immigrants born in the US. They are eligible for benefits and get them. My friend who works at Health & Welfare tells me about these children that are collecting food stamps for themselves. How about the visits to the emergency room. Who pays for that? We do. As for paying taxes, many of these folks work under the table and that is just fine with employers because they don’t have to pay FICA and other taxes for them to work. So, we get decreased tax revenues as well.
Abby, if your argument hinges on the fact that they do jobs we wouldn’t want to do then all I can tell you is IMO that is not an acceptable reason to allow illegal aliens to remain in the US. Performing a cost benefit analysis would lead one to believe that they are much more of a cost than what they provide in benefits for many reasons….above considerations of following the law…..but who cares about a minor technicality anyways? Shouldn’t we all just be able to break the law if we are starving or oppressed? I mean, if I lose my job tommorrow, can I come rob your house?
I hate the argument that we should allow illegals into our country because their country isn’t safe. Neither was the US of A back a few centuries ago when the immigrants to this country took up arms and took a stand against King George. Many, many, many died to give us a legacy, but in the case of illegals coming from Mexico, they just want to run from their own problems and take advantage of what was done here before their arrival. I grant you that if I had children in that environment, I’d be tempted to run too, but they seem to argue out both sides of their mouth. They want their culture, but don’t want to sacrifice anything for it. They come here illegally and demand that we accommodate their culture. If they took a stand as the revolutionaries did here, they could have all the benefits we have and in their own country with their own culture intact without the damage they’re causing to our economy. Sorry, Abby, I just can’t see your argument. They want what they want without having to pay anything for it themselves, but have no problem asking us to sacrifice on their behalf.
I am actually writing an argument on whether America should adopt an official language or not, and if so, then what would the language be?
I have decided that through things such as research through history, statistics and examples of events that America should adopt a main language, especially in Florida and Texas. History shows us that even in places that have mixed cultures, generally some form of communication is essential in order for the nation to truly be united.
This example can come from places such as Rome, or even before the US was established, part of the reason the Native Americans had been so separated is due to the fact that they didn’t understand how to communicate with each other.
People often bring up the fact that Canada has both English and French, but didn’t Quebec at one time try to become independent due to it’s main language being different.
Also, as Jeremy had first mentioned, there are conflicts arising here in America due to the language barriers. More and more you here about lawsuits coming up due to racial discrimination because English speaking US citizens are having a hard time serving or won’t hire non-English speaking people. Honestly though, is this really their fault? I am currently living in North Florida, (a place where my whole family has been for years on end) and I see several issues arising from the local bar owners and Spanish speaking immigrants, who do not understand what, “Show me your I.D.” means. They cannot understand, but it is required to see an I.D., yet the owner gets in trouble for having to remove people who won’t show them their identification due to a language barrier.
So after looking at examples such as these, I have concluded that a main language should be adopted here in America. That leaves just one question: Which language should it be?
Well, what is the main language taught in our schools and colleges? What is the language spoken by our professors educating our youth? What language was the United States of America; not the land, but our Nation, with our constitution and our writes and amendments, founded on? What is the language spoken most through this country?
English.
I am not saying that other languages should be shunned, or not spoken. Many other countries have an official language, yet they still embrace other languages and cultures all the same.
I realize that we cannot force other to learn a language when they come from somewhere else, but they will have to find a way to be able to communicate through that and allow their children who go to our schools learn English along with all the other students. Many people are arguing that we should not force anybody to learn anything new, then what about the majority of our country who only speak English? Are they excluded just because we are not minorities, or do people just like to forget that we too should be considered in this?
I know that adopting English as a main language will not solve the problem of people who cannot speak English living in our country, but it can eliminate lawsuits against business owners. It could also encourage future generations to learn English. This official language would also make note to the world that our documents, our schools, and majority of our people are going to speak English, and that it would be best that before you attempt to become a citizen here in the US, it would be best if you could speak our language or else find another way around and not be able to sue people because of your inability to speak their country’s language.
Well said Jody. People immigrate here for a better life, then want us to change to what they left.
Thanks Idaho Native, and I agree with your comment, if they are trying so hard to change our country, then why did they leave their own? If they had a problem there, then they should attempt to make a difference without interfering with our people. I think all of it really stirs up racial problems too.
I’m all for legal immigration. It’s how my ancestors got here, I’m guessing. However, I don’t believe the US should continue the birthright concept (what you called anchor babies).
I’m TOTALLY for English as the official language. Keep your traditions and your languages, teach them to your children and share them with your new community, but learn the language of this country so you can get along, so you can make a living more easily, and so you can show you are really glad you came here.
I don’t know how much travelling you’ve done Nemisis, but all of the Chinese people in Chinatown in SanFransisco get along just fine and are very productive members of society, as well as being business owners. Miami is the same way with their Cuban & numerous Spanish populations. San Diego is the same way with their Mexican population. LA is the same way Chinese, Vietnamese and Spanish populations. As is New York city with their Spanish, Russian, & Chinese populations. (just to name a few)
They ALL “get along” & “make a living” quite well they way things currently are. Not to mention, they ALL appreciate being in this country.
Some of these comments being posted tell me that many of you really need to get out there and see how things REALLY are before judging these people, instead of just making blind assumptions.
What kind of blind assumptions are we making? I think Nemisis’ post was legit. You don’t have to travel abroad to have an opinion–let alone that English should be spoken here in the US.
Once again Mike puts words in my mouth… (gotta love it!) you really should read these posts thoroughly before replying.
I never said “travel abroad” and I didn’t knock anybodys opinion. All I said was (& I was replying to Nemisis’ post, not yours) If one has travelled to other cities throughout OUR country, one would see that being able to speak English is NOT that important.
Nemisis stated that these immigrants coming over to our country needed to learn English to , AND I QUOTE, “get along, so as to make a living more easily”.
All I was saying is, if you’ve travelled throughout our country, you’d see that many of these different nationalities like Cubans, Mexicans, Russians, Chinese, etc….ALL “get along & make livings” just fine without knowing that much English. As a matter of fact many of them are a lot more successful than many Americans I know because they DO appreciate living here. Many of them have their own businesses and are doing quite well.
It’s just funny to me to see all of these people think that since these immigrants can’t speak English they can’t make it in this country. Thats funny! It just shows me that they have no clue what their talking about.
But that’s just my opnion… and of course you are entitled to yours.
I appreciate your clarification. While it is apparent that economically speaking many of the ethnic communities have supported themselves adequately, I would argue that these enclaves are not healthy to the country as a whole from several perspectives: 1) Economically, they could prosper even more by expanding their base to the entire population–not just a select few–albeit for a language barrier. increasing commerce is good for all of us. And 2) more imortantly, we have a cultural aspect to respect and protect–learning English is just one other part of being an American and not being fractionalized or compartmentalized. Alexis DeTocqueville commented on the greatness of America being all her people coming together and being united in their communities–language is important and it is one of the most important intangible factors that keep this country great.
We see the results of compartmentalization based on race, ethnicity and language all around the world–China and Taiwan (Mandarin Chinese Language), African genocide based on ethnic backgrounds, and race relations in America. I believe it should be public policy to unite people together, where possible, and assimilate rather than segregate–language can and should be apart of this on-going transformation.
Within the last 2 weeks there was a guy by the name of Joe Horn in Pasadena, Texas, who shot two illegal aliens robbing his neighbors house. Apparently, Horn was house sitting or something to that effect. Anyhow, these two robbers were killed in the melee. With that background in place, check out this video. Some Black Panther party members showed up at Horn’s house to hold a press conference to decry the use of violence on these two poor illegal immigrant robbers.
The reaction by Horn’s neighbors is priceless…..they turned the tables on these guys big time. The type of reaction depicted in this film is going to be happening alot more often–with the government’s refusal to protect the border and protect America from invasion. Horn’s use of the second amendment is exactly what alot of government types hate to see…..people protecting their property and that of their neighbors from criminals. Incidentally, Horn has not been charged and probably won’t be. People are tired of being ignored by their government and they are tired of being preyed upon by criminals of all stripes.
http://www.blogsofwar.com/2007/12/03/video-quanell-x-and-the-new-black-panther-party-confronted-by-joe-horn-supporters/
In case you had not heard the 911 call:
Brave Neighbor Kills 2 Robbers 911 Call – Watch more free videos
Yay! Vigilante justice! Just love it when some gun-totin’ hot-head takes the law into his own hands. Am I the only one who can hear this dispatcher saying “There’s no property worth shooting someone over?” Twice? Whee! Let’s celebrate a killing. Call this guy a hero cause he couldn’t wait for the cops to come!
While I don’t know if this was the case, what happens when a particular neighborhood or a group of homes is continually broken into? What if it was your house? Would you want the crimes to continue? What if you and your family were in the home? Whadda gonna do? Go hide in a closet? Or defend yourself and your property. Seems to me that it is high time that crooks remember that when they break into peoples homes they can and will pay a high price. You don’t mess with peoples property or their homes and expect a cake walk.
Listening to the 911 call that I linked to, he was watching the home robbers for several minutes. He indicated he was tired of this activity, and he stated a few times that if the cops did not get there quickly enough he was going to shoot them. You can clearly hear the two shots. He came back and told the dispatcher about his gunshots, when the cops came you can clearly hear him cooperating with the officers and lying down on the ground, letting them know his shotgun was inside his house on a chair.
This guy was not some wild sam shooting anything that moved, he was calculated and responsible. He tried the legal route as soon as he could, but he made it clear that he was going to stop the robbers from getting away.
Vigilante justice, as I understand it, is where you exact your own justice because you do not think the legal system will do it. I don’t think this qualifies as vigilante justice. I do think he is a role model for America, and I hope they do not bring charges against him.
This type of activity exemplifies why the Second Amendment is so important. People have a right to protect themselves and their property at all times. Not just when the police get around to “protecting and serving”. In fairness to the police, they are busy…sometimes too busy to respond timely.
The first job of government is to protect it’s citizens. When they cannot, it is completely rational for private citizens to protect themselves and their neighbors. When people say they are taking the law into their own hands this is not correct. People make laws to aid in protection of themselves and their neighbors. Nothing in man made law takes away from Natural Law–that is the right and ability of private citizens to act in accordance with the principle of defending yourself and your property.
In the old west, a man that stole anothers cattle was shot and if captured, he was hung. Why? Because property, like life, was king. We moved away from this premise for a variety of reasons. However, I think alot of people are sick and tired of being taken advantage of by the system of laws set up that don’t protect the average citizen and confer more rights on criminals. If I were on the jury for Mr. Horn I wouldn’t vote to convict him based on the facts presented. It is high time that we returned some power and control back to average citizens and took it away from the criminals that take from all of us.
Killing two people is “calculated and responsible?” Give me a break. This man absolutely overreacted.
I encourage you to listen to the call, it’s about 8 minutes long. He does not sound crazy or overly agitated at all.
Is home robbery a felony?
Let you, him or any other person come around and break into MY home to steal my property and/or terrorize my family. I gaurentee you I’d do the same thing this guy did in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t think twice about it and I wouldn’t bother calling the cops until afterwards. We have that right as American citizens to protect ourselves and I’ll be damned if I’m not going to utilize it! These people CHOSE a life of crime and that’s the price you pay. Instead of working for a living, they’d rather steal. Well….they sure as heck won’t be stealing from ME!
Brian, why don’t you tell us what YOU’D do in this situation? Go hide under your bed and hope they don’t find you and shoot you? Go hide and HOPE they don’t find your wife or children and rape and murder them? Call 911 and HOPE they get their in time?
Yeah….you go right ahead with that thought process.
Has anyone asked the homeowner who was robbed what they think? Do they wish the neighbor had let the robbers go despite witnessing it all, or are they glad the neighbor shot at the robbers?
That would be an interesting sid question. I am sure the media would love to get a “no” answer to villify Mr. Horn. I think 007 and CR67 hit it on the head–what would Brian do in this situation? This reminds me of 1988 when they asked Dukakis what he would do if his wife were raped and he couldn’t put forward a cogent answer that was credible or believable.
Horn did what most of us would do….we would protect our homes and those of our neighbors because we stand as a community against crime. If you have ever been the victim of a burglary (I have) you know what I mean. While I imagine it pales in comparison to being raped, when I was burglarized, I felt very violated. Having your home invaded and itmes your worked hard for stolen is not a good feeling whatsoever. I think alot of people identify with Mr. Horn because they recognize that the police cannot be everywhere 24/7. Citizens have the right and the duty to protect themselves and their neighbors. Our society needs to get back to less reliance on government protection and more reliance on each other to protect our kids, our homes, and ourselves. Horn’s actions bring a renewed focus to what Neighborhood Watch really means.
I’ve also had my home burglarized twice and I’ve been robbed on the street. Mike is right, it’s very violating. Both times my home was burglarized I wasn’t home, but to come home and find your personal effects gone through and certain valuables that you’ve worked hard for missing, is very disturbing. Sure it’s only property, but it’s MY property and I sure as heck am not going to give it up without a fight. I’m also not going to wait around to figure out if somebody is in my home to rape or murder me or my family, or if they’re only there for our possesions. If you’re in our home uninvited, then you’ve got problems!
Sheesh, folks. This isn’t a question of what might have happened. This is a question of what DID happen. This guy went out of the house intent on using that shotgun. I think his mindset is pretty clear in the 911 call.
I would have called the police, kept an eye on these guys from my house, try to spy a vehicle, and stay on the line with the cops. Only when this guy went outside toting the shotgun did these guys do anything threatening to his person (lunging movements, is what I read on the story). He went out looking to use that shotgun and damn if he didn’t. They were unarmed. Is life so cheap to you people?
I think you need to listen to that 911 call because you are indicating some things that did not happen.
When you say he went outside intent on using his shotgun, you make it sound like he was intent all day long to shoot something, anything. He called the cops and told them several times to hurry, and a few minutes into the call indicated he was not going to let them get away, and the means to that end was using his shotgun. I just want to make it clear that he was not in a hurry to go shooting, he was willing to do what it took to stop the robbers.
“I would have called the police, kept an eye on these guys from my house, try to spy a vehicle, and stay on the line with the cops.”
Again, if you listened to the call you would know he stayed on the line for about 8 minutes, from first report until the officers arrived. He did keep an eye on the guys and constantly updated the dispatcher as the robbers moved around. He reported he could not see any vehicle belonging to the robbers.
So he went outside intent to stop the robbers. How to do so? Tell them to stop? Two robbers against an old man? How was he supposed to know if they were armed or not? Yeah, I support his using his shotgun when the robbers were fleeing.
I’ll be the jerk and say yeah those robbers’ lives are cheap to me. If they are willing to engage in that kind of conduct, they take the risk that an old man can blast them in the front yard. You gamble you risk all losses from that gamble.
And you know we’ve had a couple recent home burglaries where people were tied up by armed robbers. What if you watch those robbers across the street come over to your house and take you and your family hostage?
I’m willing to bet something like this has never happened to Brian or his family. You can’t negotiate with people like this. You don’t know if their hopped up on meth or armed and dangerous. Personally I cant belive your siding with them. The fact is, these punks were in the wrong and the homeowner, by law, had every right to do what he did. I say way to go for blasting these two fools!
I agree with others here….come on my property to steal or harm my family, you better be prepared to deal with Smith & Wesson, that is if my German Shepard doesn’t take a chunk out of your hide first.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story
Please read this and tell me this guy did NOT leave his house intending to use the shotgun against these guys, no matter what they were doing.
I’m sorry life is so cheap to you, Joe, for ANYONE.
No, nothing like this has ever happened to me. I’ve also never killed two men in cold blood, either.
Beware BOP alert!!! (blown out of proportion alert)
It was not in cold blood.
Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson.
I say well done…the man did what he had to do and I’m proud of him. Maybe the next criminal that hears about this will think twice before breaking into somebodys house! I would have done the exact same thing.
There’s just one problem Mr. Horn has defending himself if charged. This didn’t happen at night.
From the article:
“Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.”
This is Texas people….the guy will be hailed a hero and he won’t be charged. It’s still frontier justice in Texas and those folks don’t take kindly to anyone breaking into their homes….be it day OR night.
I would have done the same thing. I probably wouldn’t have shot to kill, but with a shotgun anything is possible.
I don’t think he’ll be charged being that they both have previous criminal records. The world is a better place without them I say.
Here is an excellent primer on Texas Self-Defense laws. ooh child is correct, it does have a nightime provision. The definition of nighttime is also given in the primer. Perhaps Idaho should investigate this law and see if it should pass here.
http://www.self-defender.net/law3.htm
Like I said, these two people gambled their own lives away by engaging in the robbery. What if the cops had shot them instead of the neighbor? The effect would still be the same and we would not be discussing it at all.
I’d invite Joe Horn to be my new neighbor, and greet him with a plate of cookies and a box of shotgun shells.
Excellent reply Joe! LOL I feel the same way. And anybody that knows anything about Texas knows that their residents will do whatever it takes to protect their property. That’s one state where pretty much every household owns a firearm or 10!
http://www.englishfirst.org/elcenezo/elcenezoreuters81699.htm
http://acnn.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/make-spanish-official-american-language/
Also, for those of you that were glad to see the rising in Texas to run the NBPP out well, so was I! However, now I hear Texas has banned, in one or some cities, protesting all together near houses and neighborhoods making the such illegal which stands to reason the constitution is being slaughtered by Texas politicians? I wonder where the law makers were when 30 to 50,000 uncivil rights activists marched in Jena led by the NBPP under the banner of the Nation of Islam? Well, at least they were speaking English?
I do not prescribe to all this forced diversifying FYI it will be the end of America as we know it and we are bequeathing to our children’s children children a wasteland, watch. Who said it up there said it right, everyone that is whining for tolerance in these perilous times we live will feel mighty silly when this thing unfolds fully before them.
There is another Texan screwing with the Constitution in DC.
Did anyone catch the story of Jey Vento in Philadelphia? Vento runs an eatery with the sign that says, “This is America, Please use English When Ordering.” He is getting hauled in front of the Philadelphia Human Rights Commission. The hearing last week was 6.5 hours long. They want him to take down the sign or be closed. He is fighting them. It is a politically correct sign of the times.
I can’t believe that these clowns are wasting the tax payer dollars going after Vento. Vento said he would rather close than take down the sign. Good for him. Good for America.
When I go to Mexico, I have to learn some Spanish to get by, When I go to France I have to learn some French, when I go to Japan I have to learn some Japanese…. Is that a clue?
I still think we’ve become lazy as a society in not requiring our children to make learning a 2nd or 3rd language mandatory in our schools. Every other child in the world learns at least a 2nd language while in school (& often times 3 or 4) except for ours. I think we need to change that.
Ooh, I agree with you there, CR67. Learning additional languages has many beneficial side effects for students.
I like two points about seemingly opposed sides in this argument.
I like the idea of Americans learning 3 or 4 languages to be globally competitive, but I also like the idea of government not being required to publish materials in anything but English, and I like the idea of businesses being able to objectively restrict the business they conduct by only serving English-speaking customers.
Aren’t those three the best balance? How can we support all of them at the same time?
I would say the second language in America is Spanish and English should be first. I am dating a spanish person and I have learned alot of respect from that relationship. The problem is all of Americans except American Indians are all from different countries. Our Great great grand fathers and mothers came to America from another country. Should we all speak French? Or how about German? I like english my self wish I could learn Spanish.
English should be the official language and required in all government offices. This would provide uniformity and standardization. I’m sick of the arrogance of some groups that think the entire country should bend over backwards to help illegal immigrants who refuse to learn English. Other countries laugh at this idea. If an immigrant is here LEGALLY they already speak enough English to get by. If they’re here illegally I don’t really care if they have a difficult time.
But we Americans also need to learn other languages such as Spanish and Chinese since our economy is now global in nature. We’re the only country in the industrialized world whose majority of citizens never learn another language. Second language classes should be taught in early grade school. Kids could easily learn a couple of languages at that age with little effort and retain it. You can’t as effectively learn a second language later in life.
Once again….excellent point Cafedelsol.
haha, my favorite e-mail is the one with an American flag in the background and the words saying:: “Why the hell should I have to press 1 for English?” You know what, I agree! I heard that they were considering giving us 2 official languages, English and Spanish. Well did anyone here know that our founding fathers actually had a vote as to what language we should speak and ONE vote kept us from speaking German? Yeah, learned that one in Government class.
My mother is in a word OBSESSED with European countries and, for fun, has seen what she would have to do to move to any of them. In order for us to immigrate to Switzerland we would have to have a bank account or something with something like 500,000 dollars so they would know we could sustain ourselves. WOW!! I’m not saying America should go this far at all. However, France seems to have a GREAT rule. You sign a document saying you will DO YOUR BEST to learn the language and accept the culture. And yes, officials will check in on you. Now I hear you all saying “how will they learn the english.” Well I think that we should offer community classes that will help them learn at the very least essential phrases. The main problem with some of the immigrants is many of them seem not willing to learn, and so they have their children learn and speak for them. Please note I did not say all or many, I just see that happening alot, and if their kids can speak, couldn’t their kids help them learn, even just a little? I don’t care about immigration on 2 terms:: You come here LEGALLY, and you come here willing to be and live like an AMERICAN! You should want to be a part of our country and our culture. If those apply to you, come on it, have dinner with me, and we’ll be great friends.
Here’s an email I received from a friend and thought I’d pass it on, seeing how it fit with the general theme of this post.
ORANGE COUNTY ( CALIFORNIA ) NEWSPAPER
This is a very good letter to the editor. This woman made some
good points. For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions. This lady made the argument pretty simple. NOT printed in the Orange County Paper………………
Newspapers simply won’t publish letters to the editor which they
either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they’re pushing o n the public.
This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been
published; regardless…here it is.
New Immigrants
Dear Editor:
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this
land is made up of immigrants . Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren’t being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.
Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to
people like Mr. Lujan why today’s American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States , people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in
with their new home.
They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their
children a new life and did everything in their power to help their
children assimilate into one culture.
Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no
labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and
craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of
prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany , Italy , France and Japan . None of these 1 st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France , no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country’s flag and waving it to represent who they were. It wou ld have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.
And here we are in 2007 with a new kind of immigrant who wants
the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I’m sorry, that’s not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900’s deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life . I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.
And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty,
it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the
immigration bill. I wouldn’t start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.
(signed) Rosemary LaBonte
(just something to think about)
I am going to start off by telling you my situation First of all I am living in Spain as a foreign exchange student in College from Ohio. I would have loved to have learned a second or third language as an elementary student. But as a sense of our national identity I was allowed only one language, english, until I was of the age 15. At this age our ability to learn a foreign language has almost diminished and became very very hard to learn and retain everything. But mostly it is extremely hard for your accent, as your vocal chords have became hardened.
I took the opportunity to learn in a foreign country, to learn a foreign language, and to learn a lot about foreign people. The Second most spoken language in the world just behind chinese, is Spanish. It is also the second most spoken language as a SECOND language just behind English.
But as I arrived here in spain and started to take classes, i found my self at a severe disadvantage. Mostly everyone else in my class spoke a bare minimum of 3 languages. And their ability to retain and learn the language was far more advanced than myself. I quickly became jealous of Belgians who many had never studied spanish at all but all belgians who speak 4 languages fluently (English, Dutch, German, and French) were able to quickly adjust and learn the language.
Yeah maybe there should be a national language or maybe there shouldn’t but there should be second or third languages taught in elementary schools and carried throughout to high school. Because i have found that most amercians are looked upon by europeans as ignorant. We only know one language…… which many do not even speak correctly. Or even know how to write correctly, at the bare minimum. But also we are laughed at by outsiders by the choices that we have been making… we are no longer the worlds strongest economy we have a failing economy and many foreigners make it a point to state that to me. Our dollar is about as crappy as a peso, in europe. With it getting an exchange rate of $1.50 for a Euro. But we need to do something to fix our economy and that needs to start within our school system and education program. I found out that i have learned so much about english just by studying a foreign language. With a foreign language being taught in elementary schools it will help better our reasoning and learning skills, not just for languages but for everything…..
Brian, I agree with most of your post (except the part about Europeans smugly looking down on Americans as ‘ignorant’
But you are overlooking one very important fact: schools in this country are drastically underfunded. Right now, I would guess that if your kids (and I realize you are probably without kids of your own yet to truly appreciate this) are in a school district that maximizes class sizes at under 30 and manages to squeeze in one day of PE or music as an extra to math and language arts/reading, they would be doing well compared to most other schools in this country.
Why is this so? I guess because most people believe, “oh well, income taxes and property taxes pay for schools so there is no need to raise more money” or to, God forbid, donate money to your school (as you would to a private school) to provide needed financial improvements. Where I live, sales tax is routinely shot down by voters; I guess the mindset is that taxes are something only rich people should pay and thus lose out on what could be billions of dollars pumped into the state’s school system. The feds have done a truly great job of providing money for programs such as “Title I” and “Reading Recovery”, providing tutors to ensure that reading is a priority in every public school in the country, as well as providing lunch money for those in need; but the states and local entities such as school districts really need to step up and look at other means of generating income for the public schools within their boundaries (such as a sales tax or other broad-based tax)(In Europe I know that taxes can well account for over 60% of income, which explains the funds available for education as well as other programs. Not sure how that would fly here, especially if everyone–not just the upper 20% of income earners–were taxed so heavily).
Foreign language is available in my school district, by the way……some parents got together and helped create (within the public system) a series of “charter” or alternative immersion schools that any child in the district can attend. These schools over time have proven to be highly successful and could be looked at as models for other districts. The languages include French, Spanish, Japanese and Chinese. Lots of fundraising and strong parent support in these schools.
English as language
It is a safety hazard for the employee or sub-contractor’s employee not to speak english.
English. America speaks English. Those who come from other countries don’t, and for some reason we’re suppose to learn their language? I wouldn’t expect to go to Germany and have everyone speak English. It’s that simple.
I think folks should learn English if they come here to live. Keep their other language and pass it on to their kids, fine, but learn English.
Many reasons, all good.
Interesting news item about a gentleman in Philadelphia who owns a sandwich shop, sporting a sign that reads: “Speak English, please. . . this is America” …..apparently (I haven’t read the article yet) he won some court case (I imagine someone was asking the court to order him to take the sign down or something) and is free to keep the sign in place:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23715954/?GT1=43001
Interesting…….
I’m glad he won his case. The dissenting opinion mentioned that the ’speak English’ sign was right below the ‘management reserves the right to refuse service’ type sign.
Gee, do ya think? If I’m going to post some management opinion-type signs that are not menu related, they’re going to be together where you can see them all at once, not separately all over my restaurant where you’ll have to hunt for them.
I think Mike brought this up when the case first hit the news, I’m glad to see the owner won. Let the market decide if they want to put up with the owner’s opinion.
I totally think that english should be the national language.
http://www.us-english.org
read all of that website and all of its facts, they are very true,
it also tells us what will happen if it becomes our national language.
I honestly don’t think it matters.
As I do recall, English wasn’t the first spoken language on this continent.
Columbus was the first illegal immigrant.
As you do recall, Doug? How old are you, anyway?
Was that “sarcasim” coming from Nemisis? Imagine that!
Wasn’t one of the occupants on the ark named ‘Doug’? I think cartoonist Gary Larson might agree.
Nah, not sarcasm. Sarcasm is mean spirited, that was my pathetic attempt at being playful.
WELCOME TO AMERICA!!! NOW SPEAK ENGLISH AS SOON AS YOU STEP FOOT ON AMERICAN GROUND!!!
Why does Yahoo list the Official languages on the USA web site as “NONE” This political correctness is going too far.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile…We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language…and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
I heard a gal talking to her little boy today. She was speaking what some refer to as spanglish, half spanish and half english. I had to wonder why I didn’t teach my own children multi languages this way. How much easier it would be for them to travel to other countries as well as communicate to foreigners. I was very impressed. They are at an age now where they may never learn.
Doug has obviously never lived in a big city like New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc etc where there are different sections of the city like Chinatown, Little Cuba, etc. These people proudly hang their native flags all over the city in both their homes and their place of business. Just because somebody moves to America for a better life or better opportunities, doesn’t mean they should forget their heritage and where they came from. You should really get out more Doug and experience more of this great country as opposed to white bread Idaho. Whether you want to believe it or not, you’re the minority in this country.
I think immigrants should remember their heritage and bring its traditions here, as we are one giant melting pot and are made more diverse and healthy by the inclusion of various cultures.
But…I still think they ought to learn English, at least the American version of it, because it will help cement them to their new home country and it will help them in almost every aspect of their new lives.
In addition, our children should be learning other languages, too. In other countries they try to teach foreign languages as a requirement. Why should our children be less well educated?
HomeSlice, you said that so well. I grew up in a big city too and that’s how it was. Idahoans are so sheltered here! There aren’t too many of us who originated from the US. My grandparents wanted us “:Americanized” and we lost much of our native culture in the process, really cool stuff too. Many of my cousins kept their original language as well as english. They adapted to America while keeping their culture. I have always envied that. I love many things about my native culture. I also love America. There’s room for all of us.
I think that it would be awesome to learn other languages. Why does that bother people so much?
I was watching Olympic gymnastics last night and they were talking about why an original powerhouse country (Romainia or one of those) weren’t higher in the rankings over the past 2-3 Olympics. They said it was because their country had become so “Westernized” over the years and that the gymnasts had become so lazy they just couldn’t compete at the high level they once did.
Who cares if not everyone is fluent in English? I mean really, is it bothering any of us on a daily basis? I seriously doubt it. This country was made up of immigrants and people shouldn’t have to “Americanize” themselves to please everyone else. If anything, those of you that only speak English should try and learn a 2nd or 3rd language and expand your mind a little.
just mo.
#162 Homeslice, I have a non-politically correct alternate theory for the drop in their ranking…less chemical enhancements, less need for government recognition, etc.
I’m thinking westernization is just a small part of the overall change over there in eastern Europe.
I think you’d be quite surprised at how much our culture has had an impact on these other countries over the past 20 years. I have to side with Homeslice on this one. PBS had a special on this very issue a few months ago. It was amazing to see how many countries have fallen into the “consumerism” and “commercialism” our country exploits so well. Idaho as a state isn’t as bad as most of the country, but we’ve become so consumed with “keeping up with the Jones’s” in the way that we feel that we need to buy the latest and greatest of needless garbage, it’s completely out of control. (which is also why we’re a nation in debt) And I saw the same Olympic story the other evening that Homeslice did and they were saying that these girls were more interested in texting their friends than focusing on practicing. That to me is sad and it’s got nothing to do with doping or government recognition.
But on the same token this also why I’m so proud and so impressed with our athletes. Even with all the distractions around them on a daily basis, our athletes still have the highest medal count. Take for example swimmer Michael Phelps: His routine for the past 8 years has been only to train, eat and sleep.. This is all he’s been doing since the last Olympics in Athens and it shows. This type of dedication was the norm for many of these other countries, but not anymore. It doesn’t affect our athletes as much because we’ve grown up in this type of society all our lives and we don’t really notice it. But the bad habits of our society is still fairly new to these other countries and their young athletes and it’s had a major impact on their performance. I noticed one of your comments on another post, you said you didn’t follow the Olympics, but I always have and for those of us that do follow the Olympic games you really can see a difference. You also have to remember most of these atheletes are teenagers, so our consumerism lifestyle is a huge turn on for them. And a even bigger distraction.
I may be wrong about the alternative possibility, I was just struck by a recent online article about former East German athletes whose lives are in tatters, mostly due to the previous doping they had to endure (the communist bloc had to win at all costs).
It is possible that with more distractions comes more possible reasons to not be as dedicated to your sport. I suspect that Michael Phelps is the exception that proves the rule, then.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Anoneemouse!
I saw a program on that same issue Nemesis. It was amazing how all the doping the Germans did ruined many of these athletes lives. Even to the point where a couple of the women athletes had to have sex change operations. All the years of high levels of testosterone injections had taken away all of their womenly characteristics even to the point where they couldn’t stop growing facial hair. But this type of thing was prevelant in the 70’s mostly. Since then testing has become so stringent, the athletes haven’t been able to get away with much since then. Sure, there are always a few that try, but they always get busted. The Olympic committee is now keeping blood and DNA samples for 8 years from every athlete and will continue testing them for doping as new testing technologies come along. China is another prime example of hard work and dedication without the use of steroids or growth hormones. I’ve been very impressed with the way they’ve performed this year.
)
This has really been one of the best & most exciting Olympics ever imo. (obviously I’m a big fan.
Isn’t English already the language in America? Do we have to make it “official”?
Good point Anonymous. And what if it isn’t made “official”. I’m willing to bet that nobody around here has a problem communicating on a daily basis. I think those people that get upset over such a trivial issue as this, are the people that overhear a conversation in a language they can’t understand and for some reason that bothers them. When it’s Americans that are the minority here because most caucasion people in this country don’t speak a second language.
jjj
Creo que el inglés no debe ser el idioma oficial de los Estados Unidos. De hecho el español se habla desde hace mas tiempo que el inglés en norteamerica y siempre ha sido la lengua de Nuevo Mexico, California, Florida y otro estados. La población que habla español es anterior a la angloparlante.
El mismo razonamiento se podría hacer con las lenguas indigenas del pais…..
En cualquier caso, el español es la lengua mas hablada en America y por lo tanto tambien sería una ventaja para los Estados Unidos, que una buena parte de sus ciudadanos fuera capaz de hablarla.
the way i see it is, im still in high school, and this is affecting me in the way that in order to graduate with a decent diploma is to learn a languae, i have no problem with that, but when you go around your neighborhood and you cant understand half the things anyone says because their here from another country, half the time illegally, then it gets to the point where it becomes a problem, and if you cant fix the problem because neither of you speak the same language, what are you to do? i propose that in order to become a legal citizen, we need to pass a minimum languagr barrior test, if you come to america, you should atleast know how to speak the language, you do not nessicarily need throw away your own. and as for the illegal problem, WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL ALIEN is a problem? it’s clearly worded in their name, ILLEGAL, throw them out.
Seriously Brooks, how often do you communicate with the Mexicans or other nationalities in your neighborhood. I’m willing to bet it’s not very often. More often than not, the people that get upset over this issue are the ones that over hear people talking in different language and it bothers them because they can’t understand what their saying or if these people are talking about them. Tell me Brooks, do you speak a second language? If not, why not learn one? Spanish would be a good start. Every other country in this world requires their students to learn at least a 2nd language and often times a 3rd. Not here though. What makes us any different? If it bothers you that much and you interact that often with people from other countries, why not learn a bit of their language. Take the initative and be the bigger person.
If we didnt’ have these so called “illegals” in our country, who Brooks is going to work the fields? Who’s going to work on the potato farms, pick the strawberries, peaches, oranges, etc? You? I doubt it. These people are doing what most Americans refuse to do, hard labor. And this is whats keeps our produce prices so low, so be careful what you wish for.
Besides, being bi-lingual will get you a better paying job so look into it.
I don’t think American should have English as the official language, i am German, I always see Anglo-Saxon on Televisions/hollywood and everywhere in politics, i learned german before learning english in america, it should not be made legal for the anglo-saxons to suppress other european cultures in america, because some mexicans have shops here of there, i really do not support to have English as the official language, there are significant amount of Europeans who are not english, Germans, French, Italians…etc who also have the right to express in their mother tongue, America should not be made an Anglo-Saxon colony.
Okay, what about the official language of Germany? Should it be German or English?
El español es tan americano como el inglés. Defender el inglés como idioma oficial es olvidarse de toda la gente que habla español y que en los estados que antiguamente pertenecian a Mexico, el inglés ha sido el último en llegar…….
El idioma que se habla en casi toda America es el español y en Brasil es la segunda lengua. ¿Por que perder esa ventaja en USA?
I don’t think that anyone is saying that by making english the national language, other languages cannot be spoken.
I don’t think it would be a bad thing to make english the national language in the sense that we wouldn’t feel obligated to make sure that everything printed in the country would have to be printed in every language. Do other countries do that? I truly don’t know, I’ve never been to another country.
Everyone is free to speak whichever language they would like, or print it, or use it whichever manner is to their liking. But I don’t think it’s too much for someone living in this country to have a working knowledge of the language.
If I were moving to another country for any more than a vacation visit, i would make sure that I knew at least enough of the language to get by. I surely wouldn’t go to live in Germany, or Mexico, and expect a whole country to cater to me by knowing my language.
That being said, when i did find someone in that country that spoke english, I would then speak english, as people from other countries have the right to do here with their own languages.
I’m quite tired tonight, so I have only read the most recent post, and so I apologize if what I’m going to type has been typed before (though I admit that it is sheer laziness keeping me from checking).
There are several practical issues with making English the official language of America, but I’ll only mention one (maybe two…I haven’t decided yet)
There is the issue that when a person learns a language, it is an entirely different experience to learn how to speak, read, understand and write that language. We learn these as seperate skills and why so many children who learn English as a second language have no problem speaking it, but cannot write or read it very well, for example.
And unfortunately, there is an assumption that if you can do any one of these skills, the rest are no problem. As such, a person may have picked up English pretty well as a second spoken language, but can’t read it. That means any legal documents up on a wall, he or she can’t understand.
This small fact complicates a lot more things than most of us realize.
On top of that, there is a pattern to migration that has existed since…well…always: The first generation into a new country learns very very little of the country’s ordinary language. They tend to live near people who speak their language and go to places where people speak their language.
The next generation tends to be bilingual – they translate for their parents and speak their parents language at home, and speak the country’s language elsewhere.
The third generation tends to speak only the country’s language, with a few words here and there of their grandparent’s language.
Does that mean that nearly everyone who migrates to a new country is just simply averse to learning that new language? I think that would be awfully presumptuous and naive to assume.
Historically, declaring an official language encourages (really, nearly gives permission for) racism and encourages the creation of ghettos (because like will find like when the rest of the world is “against” them).
I am, therefore, against this idea.
We don’t need an official language. Every ethinic group with it’s own language has learned English eventually, and what’s the point of exluding them?
There are some states, like New Mexico or California, where spanish is the mother tongue of a great part of the people. Beside, this population has been living in this areas before the arrival of english….. Of course, they know the english but why can’t them to live in their own language? why can’t them to use it to sign a mortgage or in the court? Have they no right to watch television or read a paper in their language? They don’t want the language of his fathers to be a second option.
Huh?
Perhaps getting them to write in English would be a good start?
Definitivamente, NO
I’ve got no problem with what people speak in their homes or in public. But they should be required to pay for the services of a translator and forms in other languages.
WHAT?!
…
I think there is an anonymous person who may have never been a minority and/or poor in our midst.
All right…instant reaction out of the way…what do you mean, Anon in #182? There are varying degrees to which something like that could be implemented.
I’m pretty sure, however, that I’m opposed to the entirety of the idea of requiring someone to pay for a translator or to get forms in their native tongue – in particular if those documents or services are law-oriented in any way, shape, or form.
I’m opposed to paying for a government official to translate forms for an immigrant that refuses to assimilate. Yes, one of those requirements is speaking the language of the country.
Let them pay a higher fee if they choose forms in the language of the country they left, and stay away from my pocket when paying the person hired to translate the forms. I agree that a private translation service wouldn’t be appropriate, however.
I’m opposed to paying the government for anything but whaddya do? Its the price we pay for living in a free society.
Mi familia ha vivido en este pais mucho antes de que llegaran unos emigrantes que hablaban inglés. ¿Por qué tengo que pagar por usar documentos en mi idioma? yo ya pago mis impuestos……..
Re: Joon in 183 per my post in 182.
We shouldn’t have to bend over backwards spending time and money providing translators to immigrants who haven’t bothered to learn our language. If a private business wants to do this thats up them as its a private business decision. But non emergency government services like the department of motor vehicles, social services, and the like shouldn’t have to spend money creating forms in Spanish and hiring translators. If the immigrants want those things they should bring their own translator or go without. Certain government professions like the police by necessity must have officers who speak Spanish but if its not an emergency then the government shouldn’t have to foot the bill for people who are here illegally and who didn’t bother to learn our language first. When I’ve been to various spanish speaking countries I haven’t expected them to provide me an english translator, instead I try to make sure I’ve got someone with me who can speak Spanish since I can’t (at least not well, I can read it somewhat),
I’m not some anti immigrant zealot as I fully support many of the liberal earned citizenship plans I’ve heard. If I was in charge I’d make these the condtions: 1) Ten years in country with a solid and verifiable work history , 2) No criminal convictions, 3) Passage of an english fluency test. If you meet those three you get to stay because you’ve obviously shown a desire to join OUR country and OUR culture.
Millones de persona en NUESTRO pais piensan que el español tambien es NUESTRA cultura.
Translation for ppl with language problems:
Millions of people in OUR country believe that the Spanish is also OUR culture
The United States has been around long enough to have its own culture. Its not British, its not Mexican, its not any other countries. Its ours and its speaking english, cheeseburgers, apple pie, NFL football, baseball, Hollywood, American music, freedom of speech, etc, etc. If you want to live here you accept the culture instead of trying to force the United States to incorporate another countries culture. If you want to recognize your heritage / culture in your house / dress / etc thats fine but you have no right to expect the rest of the country to accomodate it unnecessarily which is what your doing if you expect to be catered to in Spanish.
I don’t EVEN think that would be fair; because, at the same time; it would be unjust for not giving the same opportunities to citizens whose first language isn’t English (a.k.a. Hispanics). That would be like taking away their right to speak—When it comes to this topic; there’s people from different countries since the United States is composed by different ethnic groups. I know people who would be extremely unhappy with this proposal; and, I’m also convinced that there’s citizens who would be against this.
¿Qué no ven que al mismo tiempo es como si a nosotros los Hispanos nacidos en los Estados Unidos nos estubieran comparando como “ilegales”? ¡Por eso le llaman «La Herencia Hispana» después del 17 de Septiembre; y al mismo tiempo eso sería como quitarnos NUESTROS derechos!
En California hace muchos siglos que hablamos español. Cuando llegaron los inmigrantes angloamericanos llevarón su idioma y ahora pretender impedir que hablemos el nuestro.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE I CALIFORNIA
Look, I probably won’t be back to this site so don’t bother arguing…
Our Founding Fathers: SPOKE ENGLISH. Constitution: ENGLISH. Bill of Rights: ENGLISH. You come to America, you learn English. Everyone else did. Are you just that special little person out there (out of the approximate 2.3 million take or give that DO speak ENGLISH!) that doesn’t feel like it?
This has been repeated many times, but it’s a great point. Go to Germany, learn German. Go to Russia, hey, you learn Russian or else. France, learn French. Any of the Koreas, learn Korean. Any other countries anyone wants to bring up?
Oh, let’s not forget our ancestors who came here, to America, to speak the LANGUAGE OF FREEDOM! That means ENGLISH! Now, no one should care if they put up their original country’s flag; that’s saying while I love America, I didn’t forget my old home. There’s an Italian restaurant/store in my community that has three flags: American flag, state flag, and Italian flag. Is that a problem?
Many people also say by making English be taught to every American is diminishing the culture of that family. When you’re learning English, you shouldn’t replace it with another if you don’t want to. If you know Japanese and you come to America to live, it’s simple math: 1 language + 1 language. 1 + 1. So while you keep your original tongue, you can communicate with others around you. You’re bilingual. A lot of people are AMAZED by that.
Anyway, my point is, English should be our official language. It is America’s language. Chinese is to China as Polish is to Poland as English is to America. It’s just showing that we are proud to be American. Proud to join the diverse people and cultures under one language: English.
Oh man, I love having my old topics come back up! I totally disagree with your absurd notion of English as the “language of freedom”. Where in the world did you come up with that?
I still, by the way, think this is a good idea. Nations have traditionally been defined by common language and having multiple languages spoken on a widespread basis leads to hostility and distrust between ethnic groups. Obviously.
You nationalist bastard. Racism!
Difference: I’m not claiming is the best language or the only language worth speaking.
It doesn’t matter. By your definition, you are a nationalist.
Check it out: http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2009/04/14/obamas-european-blame-america-tour/#comment-31222
By stating that English should be the official language of the United States of America, you are supporting nationalization of the country…by your definition.
This isn’t a fight that I want to continue man. You know as well as I do that you’re not a nationalist or a racist. You know that I’m not a nationalist or racist either whether you’ll admit that publicly or not. We both want the best for this country (this country meaning every man, woman and child residing in the United States of America EVERY time that I say it), and don’t wish any bad on the rest of the world.
I like you dude. We should seriously get together and have a barbeque sometime this summer and get to know each other better. You know, the non-political side of things. I know we have a common interest in zombie survival…and I have a hell of a theory on the swine flu being the start of the zompocalypse…
Lord, now I’m having visions of “Shawn of the Dead”…….. 2009 swine flu version.
english the language of freedom???? hahahaha
what is exactly freedom for you?: atomic bombs against civil population? killing 600,000 people in Vietnam? the CIA? the fascist marines invading a country of paysants? Guantanamo? the death penalty? George Bush?……….
You have a great future as a humorist…….(black humour)
What? lol
bbq?!?
where? when?
my son and I could realllly benefit from a get together…get out of the house…out of the ‘junk’ going on and just enjoy ourselves…no political, no lawyers, no hard feelings…just some good food and good times…it has been a really really really long time…we are new to this area and it has been really hard meeting people…(I do not attend church, never have…but not a bad person(crazy I have to add that in))
Only a matter of time before someone suggests Pictionary as our official language….
I’m planning something for 7/04, but I don’t have specifics yet.
¿¿¿¿¿UMMMMMMM???????? NO ENTIENDO NADA……. EN ESPAÑOL POR FAVOR. JEJEJEJEJ
Why shouldn’t English be our national language?
At least everyon that becomes an American citizen should be required to speak OUR native tongue.. why should we have to learn for the people that come here? I am seventeen, in school right now, and you guys are dumb****
:]
Just an FYI for you nick: English is already our national language (and by default most publications are printed in and more available in English than any other language). Official language and “National Language” are not the same thing.
I can get by in a few languages but am only legitimately fluent in English. Just as only being fluent in one language (something I’m hardly ‘proud’ of) carries with it inherent disadvantages. Not knowing English in the U.S. has profound disadvantages too – no need to get the govt. involved more by making English the “official” language. That will only cost a lot and not fundamentally change anything anyway.
The debate aside, intentionally choosing not to be multilingual and not even seeing any value in being multilingual is what’s dumb. Grow up faster nick – that attitude of taking pride in ignorance will keep you dumber, broke in the long term, with fewer dating options.
I agree with you Nick. It should be an individual choice on whether to be multilingual or not but business and other communications should be and need to be conducted in english here in the US. It is the United States of America and the english language is spoken here!!! I am currently trying to learn spanish to expand my communication skills to travel abroad not to fit in my own country.
One thing that I have noticed over the years is when you hear about immigrants, they most always state their country first. Such as I’m a Chinese American, Mexican American, African American. When did we allow a persons ethinic background become more important than the country they profess to love? The great American melting pot was one that when immigrants came here they were honored to be conisdered to be called “Amercians”. It didn’t matter what background they came from.
They worked shoulder to shoulder to build this country. I feel that those that immigrated to this country duing it’s early days, came here to help build a better country, and made the sacrafices to do so. There was no legal aid back then, no immigrant councel to help them get housing, or any government assistance. Today, however it seems that some immagrants come here to “live off the system”. And that’s where the hostility comes in. Because we still seem to have to sacrafice in order for them to have a better life. To me that’s the heart of the issue..
RE: “When did we allow…”
The word “allow” is an interesting choice of words on your part. So are you suggesting that the government should not “allow” people to call themselves what they want to be called in this respect? Sounds like unenforceable communism to me.
Regardless, just think about it deeper. You placed your own erroneous value judgment on what the order of the two words mean. Remember, often the more important thing is last so catch yourself on those very revealing assumptions. For example, your family name is said last – does that mean it’s somehow disrespecting your family because it’s said after your give name? Of course not. Secondly, if someone says that they are “American Mexican” it sounds like they are residing in Mexico with American heritage (which is part of America anyway, but that’s another topic). So either you got these opinions from some radio talk show host or you are looking for meanings in things to support your fears and beliefs.
While, for the most part I agree with your post, I wanted to point out that Roxy’s quote correctly states that English has been the generally accepted language in America “since the birth of our nation.” While the natives here spoke many languages, by the time the United States was born the number of English speakers on this continent vastly outweighed the number of speaker of any other language. Considering the fact that the language of most tribes was very different from that of other tribes puts the majority issue in even clearer perspective.
Do you realize that people have been commenting on this subject here at Idahofallstoday since January 25, 2007? That’s pretty impressive!
I have been interested in language my whole life. I speak Spanish fluently and can manage in French. What I have found while traveling all over the world is that, while I love language and language learning, there is nothing quite like coming home to the states or running into an American abroad and being able to relax back into good ol’ comfortable English. Ours is a rich language composed of the best parts of ancient languages, dialects, and linguistic structures. You can say almost anything you need to say with perfect clarity and succinctness. It is spoken by 25% of the world’s population, and is efficiently written using a simple 26 letter phonetic alphabet that anyone can learn (unlike many Asiatic languages that have pictographic or stylistic written forms).
What I would like to say to Idahoans that are worried about the effect of immigrant languages on the English language and its prevalence here in this country is…
“Get real!”
The English language, for reasons mentioned above, is already the language of scientists, businessmen, international politics, cinema, finance, aviation, and even theater. Long long long before we see English begin to fade away on this continent, we will begin to see it blossoming and flourishing in other parts of the world. English has become a unifying force in Africa where different tribes have spoken hundreds of dialects for thousands of years. Now, in our modern age, the heretofore disconnected tribes are learning it so as to allow communication amongst themselves. Guess which language?
I love the fact that there are so many languages spoken here in the U.S. There is no need to try and pass legislation to give English more strength or staying power. It’s not going anywhere. My advice to anyone reading this is that they step outside of the Idaho box and look at the big picture. If you don’t speak another language, then who are you to insist that someone else do it? Let me tell you…it’s hard!
If you do speak another language, then I’d be willing to bet that you are less fired up over the issue of immigrants coming here and continuing to speak their native tongues. The very nature of the world’s gradual progression towards English as a WORLDWIDE language will soon make the need for declaring a national language moot and redundant. Someone who wants to be successful and free of limitation will simply have to learn it. Not knowing it will be a limiter to a person’s ability to get ahead. Not speaking English will eventually be like not knowing how to read, or type, or use email.
In short, don’t be upset as we see more and more signs, menus, and instruction manuals written in foreign languages. Think of them as courtesies, like brail on ATMs and Elevator buttons, for the handicapped few that choose never to learn our beautiful versatile language.
I agree the 26 letter system has a lot of practical advantages over Mandarin for example which has thousands of characters to memorize. This is why English is the most common international language for business.
That said, some of what you said is likely the result of English being your first language, as it is for me. While you feel that you can express anything you want to say in English, it’s also true that because the language we speak influences how we think and what we can think, you’ll likely hear the same things from native speakers of every language.
Just as there is in English, there are nuances of emotion that are expressed in one word, while it takes a few words in English to approximate the same thing.
Language is surface structure (the map). Meaning/ideas are deep structure (the territory). And the map never equals the territory. So with different surface structures there will be different nuances that are lost even with the best translations. This is why reading a book by Herman Hesse in the original German is basically the same as reading it in English (same story), but anyone who reads both will affirm that they are not the same experience.
As most linguists would attest, no language is overall “better” than another language because if there is a need to express something, a word or phrase will be invented as needed. But because of culture, environment, and the fact that language influences/limits/expands thinking, different meanings and ‘territories’ will be of more use in some languages and cultures and not others.
I read of one example where there was a word for ‘brain’, there no word for “mind” in German. You could roughly describe that abstract concept of course, but there was no direct translation. I don’t know if that’s changed by now though.
As someone who speaks Spanish, if you are fluent enough that you can think in Spanish, then I’m sure you’ve noticed that you think of the world a little differently when in that mode. Native speakers of Spanish can of course express most anything they want with ease, but someone who is fluent but not as fluent as they are in their first language, will of course have much more flexibility in their first language.
And as someone who’s travelled overseas a lot too, I SO know that nice feeling you mention regarding being able to speak English and be in a familiar environment again. The last time I got back to the U.S., someone would have been knocked over if they were between me and the nearest location of the pizza I was craving.
Instead of American, I call myself a United States Citizen. That way no ethnicity is implied nor do I force anyone to fall into any racial stereotypes. Any body, regardless of their skin color, fits this title. It is a melting pot and the mere mention of ________ American is segregation isn’t it?
What my intent was, to show that when the early immigrants came to this country, they were proud to be called Americans. The “great American melting pot” We were refferred to as that because as Americans we accepted all races and class of people THAT WERE WILLING TO WORK FOR WHAT THEY GOT. In todays world, there is too much of a sence of intitlement, that for some reason it is to be given to them, because they are immigrants.
I’m not against people comming here to better there lives and the lives of there families, what gets me is the attitude that it’s owed to them. No one gets a free ride..