Time to Rethink Food Stamps?

I agree that something needs to be done with the food stamp guidelines.

But first to clarify, WIC is for pregnant or nursing mothers, and for young children. WIC only covers milk or formula, baby cereal, cheese, eggs, carrots, beans, peanut butter, juice and cereal (only fiber enriched, no sugar cereals). There is only a few different kinds of cereals you can get on WIC. The only ones I can remember right now are Cherios, Kix, Shredded Wheat, and a few hot cereals. It used to irritate me when people would come through my line and try to get the sugary cereals and get mad when I would show them the list of approved cereals they could choose from. Their response was, well my kids don’t like those kinds. They totally didn’t get that WIC was as much for the nutrition needs as well as the financial help.

And the food stamp issue always irritated me as well. I could always tell the people who really needed the help. They were buying the cheaper food and trying to make it stretch as far as possible. (Just like those of us on a budget do)

And then you get those who buy all the junk food, and all the expensive meat, pop, etc. And then they turn around and spend $50 cash on beer and cigarretes. I even had a couple people try to convince me to run their cigarettes as food so they could use their food stamps. As if losing my job was worth it to me to sell them cigarettes. I also had a lady come through my line just before Christmas with a $40 Prime Rib, and big sheet cake from the bakery and a cart load of pop, and precede to pay with food stamps. I was furious. If she is poor enough to need food stamps, she shouldn’t be having a party which that stuff was obviously for. When I don’t have the money for things like that, I just don’t buy it.

Now I realize that food stamps are there for a reason, and there are people who really need the help, and not everybody takes advantage of the system. BUT, I have seen too many people taking advantage of the system and I think they should enforce some guidelines as to what can be purchased with food stamps. First of all, I don’t think junk food (candy, chips, pop, ice cream, etc.)should be allowed. In fact I think that before those items are allowed, they should consider adding necessities such as toilet paper.

If they would enforce stricter guidelines, fewer people would be able to take advantage of the system.

Quest cards are not always for food stamp / welfare purposes.

In some cases that is how people receive their child support payments. I have a family member who had to take the deadbeat parent to court to get child support. The state stepped in to help and garnished the deadbeats wages. My family member then received the child support money from the state in the form of a Quest Card account. Just something to think about next time you get angry about how someone is using their Quest card. Not everyone is poor, a welfare recipient, etc.

My family member was embarrassed to use the card a lot. Despite the fact she was making near six figures she had a Quest card. And invariably she always got dirty looks when she went to use it.

I don’t know how to leave a link but if you google -Idaho quest cards child support - you’ll see I’m right.

I propose state-mandated sterilization. There are too many people on this planet. We have crossed the sustainability of the current population - 6.4 billion people. Why on Earth would anyone want to keep adding indiscrimately to the problem. Required sterilization is the key!

Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

I like the idea for simple cookbooks also. People on welfare obviously are not controlling their money well, perhaps passing basic economics and personal money management classes could be mandated?

If we were going to redesign welfare from start to finish, what would we change?

What is the need for public assistance?

What are the goals for public assistance?

How to carry out those goals so society and recipients get the best bang for the buck in reaching those goals?

The American Way used to be hard work. Now it’s figuring out how to game the system to your advantage. And, unfortunately, the government makes it pretty easy. Case in point: My wife and I were shocked when school started to find out that we qualify for the reduced price school lunch program. My wife thought for sure the lady at the school was drinking Drano when she told us, but I found the income guidelines the government uses. I make more than $20 an hour as a technical writer. If I made another 13 cents an hour, we would be on the cusp of not qualifying, based on our family size (three children). Federal programs make it too easy. There are more people on “welfare” than you think.
I’ve seen the LDS Welfare progam in action, and it works. Recipients do indeed have to work for what they get — and that’s after they’ve got jobs and have also tapped on family for support before going to the church. Dubya has made a lot of noise about getting “Faith-based” groups more involved in federal welfare programs, to mixed success.
Then again, I’d like to know who died and made us all judges of the people we see. There are abusers. But these programs, especially WIC, work to the advantage of many families. We don’t always know people’s circumstances, though it’s a fair bet if they’re buying prime cuts of beef and junk food, they’re just morons. But sterilization? Harsh, dude. Whenever anyone suggests that, I say, get in line first. This world’s problem isn’t overpopulation, it’s greed.

I think people should have the right to pick what they want to eat. The government already has way to much control over other issues. Why give them more control? A work program to earn the food?? What about the disabled people that can’t work?> does that mean they should just starve>>? and what about the old folks? Should they be forced to grab the good old walker or wheel chair and goto work? And risk a heart attack?
There is nothing wrong with food stamps. Its a supliment not a month supply of food. It just helps families cope with not having enough money. I get 70.00 a mo and wic for my children. It helps when daycare bills are out of control. And half my paycheck goes to child support and daycare. Gas prices is killing us too. Also rent is real high. Some people need the help. Who has time to work another program when you already have 2 jobs and can’t make it?

Guest –
I can tell the food stamp and assistance program has helped you, and you sound like you don’t take advantage of the situation. I believe the posts on this topic stress the upsetting situations of a few. You state there is nothing wrong with the system, I disagree. My friend’s ex-wife, receives almost $1,000 a month in child support and to pay for his part of “work related child care expenses” aka. Daycare. She in turn is a full time student, works 0 hours a week except during the summer for 2 months, so she can earn just enough to qualify for full financial aid and government assistance. She pays $40 a month for rent, and receives over $200 a month in food stamps, and an unknown amount of monetary assistance for living expenses. Now you do the math. She is a single mother whose marriage did not last. With two elementary age students it is hard yes, but she does not work at all. My friend pays for childcare even on the days she does not have class. She is not working during those days; she is at Barnes and Noble enjoying her lattes! There has never been a bigger proponent for single mother assistance, because my mother was one, but she worked her *ss off for us. We had free lunches, but if the child support check didn’t come, we didn’t pay rent. This women is living off the state, literally. My friend doesn’t begrudge her for the child support. He understands the need to help pay for his two children, but it pains me each time I have to enter that $10 box on my Idaho State Income Tax knowing I am paying for her to not work at all!

Speaking of state mandated sterilization…don’t think it hasn’t happened in our country’s past history. We sterilized as few as 40,000 and perhaps over 100,000 people in this country, some as late as the 1960’s. Buck vs. Bell, the 1927 Supreme Court decision, legalized sterilization of a third generation welfare recipient, Carrie Buck, in Virginia. The law was used extensively throughout the country with California the leading state in numbers of sterilizations. Supreme Court justice, Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote the majority opinion in Buck vs. Bell and his speech was quoted in the movie “Judgement at Nuremberg” by the defense attorney representing the German judge on trial (played by Bert Lancaster).

This is an interesting historical view of how our grandfathers handled some of the problems we presently face regarding welfare. Anyone interested can Google… Buck vs. Bell and read more about it.

Wait … so were you being serious with the manditory sterilization comment? I thought for sure that comment was one of those stupid e-smartass things you see from time to time … but seriously?

That’s scary.

I am absolutely serious about mandated sterilization. Responsibility is what we are talking about. Case and point; animals. They don’t know how to be responsible, so we sterilize them to help limit the problem of overpopulation. Same should happen with humans. Should they not live responsibly with family planning, etcetera, then they should be forced to be responsible. We have laws in this land to reign in living beyond responsibilities. Having too many children that one cannot support is irresponsible. Is it incumbent on society to carry the responsibility of those who don’t give a damn? I suppose to a certain extent, yes, but there has to be a line of delineation. Snip, Snip. Problem reduced. Can there not be any better solution?

People need to wake up and see that the current course is not one of long term survival. Drastic changes will be needed. This is only one!

I’ll support mandatory sterilization if we can start with people like Tom to make sure that there are no more little “Toms” coming into the world.

Of course I’m not serious but its scary to think that there are actually people out there who believe what he does.

Well its toms opinion. I may not agree with his remedy. I think everyone should be heard even thou its not what everyone wanted to hear. I would like to see families go back to the morals americans had over 75 years ago. Unfortunatly the economy wont allow that. It takes everyone working 1-2 jobs to make a good living. you can’t support the family on 1 income anymore. Food stamps is good for the most part. And so is medacaid. Its hard to pass on good morals to your children if your always at work and they are always in daycare. You can,t even dish out a good woopin like our parents did to us as kids. I remember the sting of a willow stick on the rear end. I sure was a good kid.

Oh I am sorry jeremy your right. Your always right. No one else is correct. Only you.

I still disagree. the comments he made sterio typing people. he is basicly saying people on food stamps are filthy ,and smell, have several kids,wear old clothes, You know what the comments jeremy made are very wrong. I do not think its anyones buisness to control what people choose to eat. I am sorry to offend anyone. But I find the sterio typing poor people wrong and also trying to take away the right to choose what they eat. The system gives people what they are aloted due to income. If that person waiste the food stamps big deal . They suffer from it. Junk food?? no one has the right to tell people what to eat. You all think its ok because they are poor and shouldnt have any rights. I just would like to see people come up with a point of view that is origianl not a follow the leader comment.

FYI)))) I like what Former Grocery Clerk had to say that was responsible and didnt really steriotype people as being smelly and wearing old clothes. He made a good point. Im the person that uses the assistance very carefully. And budgets it real good. And some times I want a big fat choclate cake. The food stamps isnt to provide food for a month its only to help get thru a few weeks .

Paula,

Did you ask the woman with the steak if she was on welfare? Because as has been pointed out that Qwest card may be how she receives child support. And if thats the case then she should be able to spend the money on the card how she wants.

Everyone needs to remember the old saying about what happens when you ASSUME.

Excellent response, Jeremy, it was everything I was going to respond with also.

I agree with the idea that junk food shouldn’t be prohibited from welfare recipients’ lives (no “pop police” raiding their refridgerators), but why should the public pay for sugar highs?

I agree the food stamps program needs to be restricted to healthier foods. I would also make it a rule that cigarettes and beer cannot be purchased in the same shopping run! If a shopper uses a Quest card to buy groceries and immediately throws up a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes to buy with their cash, make it so cashiers must refuse the second purchase. If they want the extras they would have to physically exit the store, re-enter, and get in line again. The idea here is to make it that much more difficult to get those things that make everyone mad.

I hope the legislature makes this change in the next session.

The difference: People choose to smoke and drink. Vice is not a qualifier for segregation. Segregation is oppression because of race or ethnicity.

And do you really mean to compare society not accepting self-destructive activities to segregation? Are you really going to open up that can of worms? There is no comparison.

Besides, you are missing the point - we are not saying that people cannot drink or smoke any more than we are saying they cannot eat junk - we are saying that the state will not fund it.

I guess I did miss the point here all I see from the Topic is everyone wanting to Control peoples choices they make.

To further expound on my thinking. Consider the following which I think is a very plausible next step if the government starts controlling what welfare recipients can eat. I’m using teachers as an example but you could easily substitute any government job that is financed through tax dollars.

Joe Smith is in the grocery line and he is seething. The local school district just passed a levy to raise taxes in order to pay for a teacher raise. But right there in front of him is his son’s teacher. And that blankity blank teacher is buying beer, Doritos, and Twinkies. The nerve of that SOB to cry for a raise and then go out and waste her money on junk food like this. If those teachers want a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste their money like this. It’s my tax dollars. Someone should pass a law saying that if these teachers get a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste it on junk food like this.

Once you open the door to government control over what people eat and drink then its not a big step to the further control of others. The remote possibility of this is much worse to me than any anger I have about the fact that every poor person I know is a chain smoker.

Raven, you have a point about the slippery slope, however I disagree because the difference is teacher’s are contributing something of equal value back to the society paying their salaries. The welfare recipient is getting money from the generosity of our society, they are not contributing back something of equal value in exchange.

Once someone has earned their money, whether privately or publicly, of course it’s nobody’s business how they spend it.

Once someone has to ask “the rest of us” to supply them with money instead of them earning it, I think “the rest of us” have a right to attach a few common-sense strings.

One of those strings is not allowing alcohol or tobacco. Disallowing junk food would merely be a scale of the same concept, not a radical departure from precedent.

the ‘guest’ has a tough argument there, we all know working minimum wage is well below poverty and many of those people use public assistance. They are working, and not the most pleasant jobs, either.

How many welfare recipients have no job at all, or work less than 20 hours weekly?

Would it be ethical to dictate their purchases?

I hope they never make a law that says if you have a computer you can’t get assistance.

Trust me the system is fine. They really crack down on people and make sure they work. Even single moms with 10 kids has to work. Or she will get kicked off. Unless she is a student. Even people that come across the border to work get assistance. And they pay taxes too.
There are the people that slip thru the cracks by simply getting a job and working for a few days. then the program has to give thme the same time to find another one.

Guest, comments were never intended as personal attacks. Apologies if they came across that way. That is why I have often used the words “truly needy” in making my points. I have worked with people that I really wish the government would do more for, people like you who are working hard, being responsible and trying to make it on your own. But I think you have probably seen, perhaps even known, those who have abused the system and it is those of whom we speak.

FYI most people on food stamps are working or are disabled, full time student. there are very few that abuse the system. I am glad that the quest card is there because the old stamps could be sold for money and people could buy beer and cigarettes or even drugs with the money. Not anymore. There really isnt a big abuse issue anymore with the food stamp system. People only can abuse the system for a short time. They have to get a job. Unless they are a student or taking care of a newborn baby. Or disabled.

This discussion has really kind of proven my point - perhaps it is time to privatize the welfare system. Leave it up to the Mormon Bishop’s Storehouse and Catholic Food Banks. Leave the state out of it. The State has never been a good provider for the people - time to shoot the dead horse?

ps Guest - if you are on food stamps and also paying taxes, do you not see a kind of irony in that? Kind of like you are buying food stamps from the government? Are you sure you pay taxes, or do you get it all back on your tax return? I ask simply because it doesn’t make sense to the government to tax a citizen who is using tax-based programs in the first place.

Church welfare programs don’t just serve believers - in fact, most church welfare programs aim to assist non-members and, heaven forbid, Atheists!

Agreed. Something needs to be done, but I have zero faith in the government to do it any more right than the Mormon church (or any other institution, for that matter). My point in my last post is that perhaps state-sponsored charity is an ill-advised, at best, concept that has proven to be inneffective and corrupt.

i guess im 100% wrong. I have nothing else to say.

LOL

I’m now one of the scum people your going to see in line using Qwest cards on things like beer. I just got a letter in the mail. There has been a change in my child support payments so I’ll no longer be getting them via direct deposit and instead I’ll be receiving them via a Qwest card. So when you sneer at me and make snide comments don’t be surprised if I tell you to mind your own business.

Raven and other “guests” - perhaps you should think twice before responding because, in this discussion, you are the representatives for all those who use state-run assistance programs. Boasting about using food stamps for a quick candy fix or beer runs is not helping your case. In fact, many of your responses in this discussion cause my wife to yell “Oh my GAWSH!” in disbelief.

So, to clarify, if you represent those who use these programs, I will make a statement right now: I will vote for any candidate, no matter what his or her political affiliation, who advocates disbanding the Idaho food stamps program. I know many political figures frequent this site, so let me open this up to them.

However, that’s not going to happen because of one crucial factor - the system exists to propogate the system. The more food stamps people use, the more they need them. The more abuses to the system, the more the people become accustomed to the abuses. At this point, it seems like political suicide to remove the food stamps program, because so many are dependant on them. It’s a symbiotic relationship at this point.

Now, before you lynch me, I am going to qualify my comments: I am poor. I admit it. I live well under the poverty line (about $10,000 below it) working full-time, my wife doing the same. We are about $4000 in debt because of medical bills. I attend college whenever I can afford it. I work an entry-level job that makes my back ache and doesn’t pay very well (from time to time).

So I am not some upper-crust yuppie who looks down on the poor - I am one of them. However, I make do. I don’t get cable TV because I consider that a luxery that I don’t want to waste money on. I subscribe to high-speed internet because that’s the one luxery I like to make sacrifices for. I eat well, I don’t starve, and from time to time, I enjoy a tall frosty glass of BEER.

But I pay for all of this for myself. I don’t expect anyone to take care of me, to finance my vices, to allow me to partake in luxeries. If I get laid off, I will cancel my internet and stop drinking. Or not, because I keep a savings account well-stocked for such an occasion.

So my point is this: Why can we not ween ourselves from the system, if only for our own pride? It’s possible, I have seen it happen. Sure, I don’t have kids, so maybe I don’t know the full story, but my sister does, and I have seen how easily she could make it if she just tried. How hard would it be to cancel your cable one account, to stop buying chocolate cakes once a month or so, to just go without from time to time? Eat in instead of making the Mecca to the golden arches!

It may suprise you how little it would take to take care of yourself. In America, we have a warped concept of poverty. Consider this - owning a microwave puts you in the top 5% of the world’s wealthiest.

Sometimes, a bit of perspective is all it takes.

And Raven - when you tell me to mind my own business, I will respond, “Pay for your beer in cash, then we’ll talk … because it’s my business when my tax dollars are being used to fund your wasteful spending.”

Actually, I’ll probably just take my opinion to the voting booth and let you abuse the system. It will only be a matter of time before it collapses under its own weight - things like these always do.

Child support is a service provided by the state - which requires an infrastructure the necessary manpower to enforce the laws that govern it. Do you think the people who run the child welfare program work for free? Do you think their equipment, programs, and outsourced services are donated? My (and others) tax dollars do, in fact, pay for your child support. Perhaps not every penny, but the fact that you are getting that money is due to the fact that our elected officials are using the state’s resources to provide it to you - that makes it my business.

Also, you keep saying it’s none of my business, blah blah. You are recieving CHILD support … not VICE support. Do you really think that it’s not a big deal that you are using that money on yourself, rather than on your children? You make a point that it doesn’t matter where the money comes from, but does it really? If I give you ten dollars for groceries, and you spend it on beer, and I ask you about it and you say “Oh, well I did buy groceries, but that was money that I found lying on the street” I would be offended. Perhaps if you had used to windfall to purchase alcohol and my money for groceries, I wouldn’t be upset?

Why, though? Aren’t the ends the same? Well, it’s not about ends, it’s about my reasons for giving you the money. I’m sure your “deadbeat” ex (if he’s paying child support, does that still make him a deadbeat? Hmmm.) would not be happy to learn that you are using those funds for beer, rather that for his children.

Do you see the difference? It’s about integrity. That’s a big factor here - integrity. Doing the right thing, not the easy thing. Using the proper funds for the proper uses.

Besides that, the main topic here is about food stamps. If you’re not on food stamps, why are you do defensive? “I think thou doest protest too much!”

I agree - My reply was more to the boastful manner in which she declared how she spends her child support than anything.

I’m all for “to each his own”, but at what point do we look at such an attitude and no longer just accept it? It’s the same attitude that leads people on food stamps to buy cigarettes and beer - the “it’s my money and I’ll do what I want with it” attitude. But it isn’t their money, not really. First, the food stamps are funded by our tax dollars, as I have stated numerous times. But there is also the matter of the infrastructure that is maintained and established by, again, our tax dollars. I think this fact makes it our business to know where that money goes.

Again, it is about integrity.

See, Raven told us all flat-out that she has the state take money from her ex’s paycheck, and that sometimes, she uses that money (on the Quest card) to pay for whatever she wants. Well, there is a lot of work and manpower that goes into that process of getting the money, establishing a database, maintaining records, etc. and for her to boast about using it irresponsibly is what gets me. Sometimes, it’s not all about whether two and two makes four - it’s about, again, integrity. I won’t be made to feel like my opinions don’t matter or that I am the one being judgemental, because that’s MY system she’s using, and I believe she is using it irresponsibly.

The same goes to people who use food stamps to buy poisonous food for themselves and their children - because they are using MY system, the one MY elected officials have established, it is my RIGHT, and obligation, to scrutinize how they use that system the same way it is your right to scrutinize how the Sunnyside project is being handled.

See, when you use services like food stamps or state-run child support services, you become a part of that system, and in doing so, you lose a sliver of that self-entitlement that so many people enjoy (and, yes, abuse.) So when I buy a case of beer and use the money I earned waiting tables, in many ways, it is a world away from someone using a state-run program to do so.

Again, it’s about integrity.

Inside - I’ve state numerous times that I am a big fan of beer. Sometimes I smoke when I drink (though, not as often as I used to since I cut down). There is nothing morally wrong with drinking beer or smoking - the problem comes with priorities that conflict and remove the integrity of the system.

I never judge anyone who purchases beer or smokes - unless they do so when using state services. Doesn’t it make you wonder - they can afford booze, but not food for thier kids? How necessary is a food stamps service when they can afford booze? Where are the priorities?

As they say at the end of every Southpark: i think we learned something today (well not today, but throughout this discussion).

There is no way to tell if someone is using a state quest card for their child support or for their welfare use.

And really, does it matter? Would knowing give us excuse to be rude to that person? That person may or may not need it. That person may be using their extra dough on beer and smokes that they could easily have used on food, or they could be buying beer and smokes with a few bucks they saved all week for.

If it’s any of our business that some Idaho welfare recipients might be able to abuse the system, then it’s our responsibility to take up that business at the source (the legislature) not at the end result (the purchase transaction).

I just think we need to be careful AT ALL TIMES about judging people. When we look at someone in a snapshot of time, that one brief minute that we’re standing behind them in the grocery store, and we decide we don’t like what we see because that person is buying “junk food” with a quest card, do we know whether this person is on their way up or on their way down? And as Joe so aptly put it, does it really matter?
I have met people who were hard core drug using, hell’s angels, ne’er-do-well, high school drop outs, who have turned their lives around and have gotten into vo-tech training and are working at some part-time janitorial position while they better themselves and have decided to treat themselves to a frozen pizza and ice cream, paid for with food stamps. Would I feel comfortable saying they’re abusing the welfare system?
On the other hand, I’ve met the third-generation welfare brat who refuses to work, believes he/she is entitled to mooch off the rest of us while they earn cash under the table and collect every last cent of government assistance they can scrounge and are living a higher standard of living than I am!
The problem is, I can’t always tell during that three minutes in the grocery store line who is who.

Okay….it happened to me…..the lady in the c-store checkout line in front of me purchased food with food stamps and then bought $50 of lottery tickets with cash. I can’t understand how this system operates.

The only reasonable defense i see for even entering this discussion, is by saying “well we pay for it through our tax dollars”. Well my question is, are you really willing to take this stance?

If you compare, your car salesman, insurance salesman, tax preparer, doctor, dentist, teacher, etc… all probably make more of their salary through you, than those people in line at the store. If we’re following this rule, then you should be able to pull up their grocery lists and examine them too. After all, if they didn’t need so much money, all your rates and taxes would be even less than if you ‘reformed’ things your way!

If your really interested in stopping people from wasting money on food, this is a silly way to go about it. Most people shop this way, no matter how they get their income, and those incomes come from us in one way or another.

If you really want to reform something, reform the way that junk food and cigs are allowed to make their way into everyday american life, lets not just pick the easy targets here.

I agree with Joe good point bad analogy on Wod’s part.

I love looking at this from one econoimist’s point of view. He equates money as good service/satisfaction vouchers. The money we get in the form of paychecks mean that we are providing a service that satisfies the person paying us. If we do provide a good service then we do not receive very many good service vouchers (money). In it’s simplest form if you are a cobbler and you do a great job repairing someones boots or shoes they you are rewarded with a service voucher.
This is universal world wide whether in a barter situation and exchange of service situation or the transfering of service vouchers (money). The breakdown in Wod’s analogy and the thinking of those seeking an expansion of public sector outputs is that the persons receiving said outputs do not have to provide any type of service or satisfy anyone to receive the same vouchers that you and I have to do when we work hard to compete against others seeking service vouchers. The person that please’s the most gets the most vouchers, those that do not get less and less and are forced to find new ways to please or serve their fellowman to get vouchers.
This is as simple as it gets.
This system is efficient until government intervenes and adds a new dimension to and decreases the satisfaction efficiencies that occur naturally in the marketplace.
This is why communism fails, this is why socialism is not efficient and why socialistic economies can’t compete with capitalistic economies.
Comes down to serving your fellow man and making them happy with the job you provide, and you have your voucher that tells the rest of the world that “I have done something well enough that my fellow men have rewarded me with my service vouchers”. This leads to pride and the desire to get more vouchers to provide better service that improves the community as a whole.
People who by pass this system do nothing to get their vouchers, have no pride because they are getting service vouchers for not providing a service, and produce nothing that benefits the community as a whole.

Welfare Flop: Your comment has been edited to conform to site standards, set and maintained by the site members. You make a decent point (I think) but perhaps you should choose your words more carefully in order to make your point more clearly.

So I’m paying for you to have luxuries so you don’t go crazy? You’re going to have to do better than that.

Poverty in America isn’t actually poverty at all - it’s lack of exorbitant things and fancy foods. Poverty in America is not having the best cable package, having a $100,000 home instead of a $150,000 one. I understand that being a single mother is hard - I have a sister-in-law who’s in a similar situation. But what you’re talking about simply isn’t poverty - it’s a reality for many people which I sympathize with but am unwilling to be forced to accommodate.

And you’re right, I don’t have kids. I’ve been married for 3 years and have lived in some really disgusting apartments. However, I never expected anyone to take care of my, especially strangers - I put up with the awful telemarketing jobs, lived next to drug dealers, and was in fear of my life on more than one occasion because of the places I called home. However, I stuck in the game, worked my butt off, and with the help of my incredibly hard-working wife, pulled myself completely out of debt, bought a home, and live really well on less than (get this) $25,000 a year combined income.

So really, I do sympathize with divorce. I suffered my parents divorcing when I was very young, and it hurt. But that doesn’t mean you’re entitled - it means you’re living life and experiencing hardship like the rest of us. As the Buddha said, “Life is suffering”, but you shouldn’t expect the Mommy State to coddle you when things get hard.

But then again, that’s just me.

Jeremy I agree for $25,000 you can live comfortably each month. However what happens when that income is cut in half and then there are two extra mouths to feed? That takes your income down to $12,500 a month and at least double your food bill (have you ever priced baby formula?).

For the vast majority of us that have been in the Welfare system it SUCKS! It is embarrassing and you feel that you have done something wrong as a person or as a parent because you are unable to pay for food to feed your child.

I didn’t have cable TV for 7 years after moving out of my parents home. For that matter I didn’t even have a phone for about a year (that was really difficult when I went into labor and again when my ex abused me). If I wanted to buy a candy bar well then I guess that just makes me a horrible person for taking out that $1.00 to pay for it instead of buying another apple.

There are always going to be people that are going to take advantage of the system (any system) but for a lot of us there just wasn’t any choice but we did what we could and got back on our feet and it didn’t take someone standing in a grocery line behind me rolling his eyes because I bought a bag of chips instead of a banana.

I wasn’t talking about me in particular with luxuries but you have seemed to classify all eople on state help as those who don’t need to be in the system. I know people personally who take advantage and they piss me off because it does make it seem like we all do it. I could argue this point with you forever and my opinion on it will not change. I don’t think a person who has never had to be in a position to need state help should offer up their opinions onhow other people should use or not use it. I don’t live in a big fancy house I pay high rent for a crappy house in one of the less desirable neighborhoods in town. I don’t drive a newer vehicle so I baby the one I have and hope it will make it yet another year. I don’t work a job where insuranc is an option and yes I could go out and find another job that has benefits but will it give me the fexability that my present job does to take an extra 1/2 lunch to do parent teacher conference or kids doctor appointments?Probably not so woould it be worth changing jobs I don’t think so. Yes I could go back to school and get a degree to find that higher paying job but then I would be asking for more help from the state which doesn’t help either does it? The only luxury my kids get is knowing that I love them and that if I could I would buy them the game system they want or take them to the movie they all want to see but they know we can’t and they deal with it the best they can. I am glad that you got yourself out of debt and bought a house and can live on 25,000 a year but there are two of you verses the single parents on welfare who live with 3 or 4 or more mouths to feed and cloth on about half of what you have. I think you should call the local welfare office and ask them about their system and where the money comes from and how much of it is your tax dollars being used to help those less fortunate than you.

Like I said I have all kinds of compassion for divorce - but taxation is simply not the answer. Never was, never will be. And yes, my entire livelihood is made from tips - which I earn through going to work, serving people well, and earning my money. Every penny of it. I have never once asked for a hand-out and hope to God I’m never in a situation that I need to - that is, really need to, not do it because it’s there and I take advantage of it.

Oh, and tips and gifted moneys are reported differently - all of my tips are reported on my taxes as income and I’m taxed accordingly.

And since when did I show any lack of compassion? Firstly, not wanting to pay for others’ luxury isn’t dis compassionate - it’s American. It’s capitalist. It’s humanist. Most of all, it’s rational. If I find a charity that I believe will really help people and it’s a cause I really believe in, I’ll help out - but a blanket-solution backed by bureaucrats that is taken advantage of on a daily basis is not one of those things.

Passingthrough summed it up better than I ever could:

“Even “poor welfare people” need to have luxuries too or what you will be paying for with your tax moneys will be their time spent in the state mental health hospital because they went insane and killed everyone around them!If the time comes you ever have to stand on the other side of the Qwest card I hope you post your opinions on state assistence then.”

I rest my case.

Oh, and bravo on the lack of sensitivity. Right after a mass shooting. Nice touch.

I’m forty two, have no kids, and here’s what I think.

I think in our world we CANNOT afford to placate to the “least common denominator”. Meaning - YES there are people who abuse the system - and YES there are those who really need some help.

I’m for erring on the side of those who really need the help. I don’t want to think “Well, X and Y and Z people abuse the system, so let’s make it hard for the rest of the alphabet”. It reminds me of “Homeland Security” - because there might be ONE “potential terrorist” in a town of fifty thousand, let’s round up all Middle Eastern looking people. RIDICULOUS!

To me - this is the same sort of thing. In a perfect world, there wouldn’t be single parents trying to carry the load with four kids - but there ARE such families (I’ve known my fair share) and I would MUCH rather my tax dollars go to them then to - oh - I duno - a WAR I find useless.

When we first moved here both of us lost our jobs within the first six months and had NO resources to find new (we were recent arrivals). We got energy assistance through one winter - no food stamps, no anything else, but we DID get five hundred dollars worth of heat bill paid - and let me tell you I felt VERY guilty about it @ first. Like something was “wrong” with me (as another person mentioned). Be that as it may - when you’re not working and it’s twenty below zero, things can get scary. The only thing “wrong” was the timing for getting work - once spring arrived we both got jobs and things improved.

It’s been thirteen years since then, I have a decent job, my partner has a decent job, and we bring home a decent amount of money (not a LOT - but that’s largely by choice - we both refuse corporate jobs that pay well and choose independent-thinking small businesses that pay less but offer more fulfilling job experiences).

When we NEEDED help it was good to have it. Should it not have been there for us because others “abused” it? I’m glad that wasn’t the case.

A few years ago we took in two of our SIL’s kids for a year - and our income went from “okay” to “barely scraping by”. It DOES cost a lot to raise kids - and when you’re stressing over how much money worth of tp you’re going to need for the next week - you know it’s true that kids are costly to keep around. That doesn’t include computer stuff, shoes, and yes - when we had kids around we DID have cable tv (not now though - I’m stictly a satellite radio person).

My point - I know people abuse the system. I also know the system is designed to HELP people who need it. I prefer to focus my thoughts on that aspect.

taxpayer I think you might be out of bounds with your remarks. How do you propose making a dead beat parent pay child support?

I have two court orders (one for each of my children) for child support and I very rarely see a child support payment. There are plenty of deadbeat parents that work under the table, switch jobs as soon as their wages begin to be garnished or the state simply can’t find them. How do you get the money from them then? My siter and I have both been in this area where we didn’t even know what State the ex was in.

In Idaho the parent receiving child is basically in charge of tracking down the missing parent. My ex has another ex with two kids by him and while I sometimes get child support she receives none because the State of Idaho “can’t find him” even though they know where he is on my case and have collected. Every once in awhile I get a letter saying that I need to give the State all of my ex’s current information and if I don’t comply that I can be fined. That’s great… assuming I even know what state he is in.

Additionally my ex is required by court order to carry health insurance for the kids but that has NEVER happened.

A note about Medicaid, while my children were on Medicaid if they visited the doctor then the ex was actually charged for the visit. When you go back through my child support records you can see where some of the payments received by the State for child support payments actually went to pay back the State/Medicaid so it isn’t all coming out of your pocket contrary to popular belief.

Failing to pay child support for more than 90 days and/or I believe $2000 can trigger administrative license suspension. Even if the dufus is in another State, under interstate compact laws, if one state suspends other states honor the suspension too….this is the long arm of the law. The state can also go after the dead beats federal and state tax returns.

It also becomes a felony to non-support a child after certain time frames. True, the parent has to park on the prosecutor’s door step to get this going…but I have seen it done in Bingham and Bonneville Counties! This really seems to get the dead beats attention!

3. the kids grow up to be good law biding citizens and learn good working morals.

I fail to see a connection between growing up with money being a moral, law-abiding citizen. Just because the crimes are white-collar in nature doesn’t make them less immoral.

Or you can just let it stay the way it is now. Lazy welfare parents that wont work raising more lazy non working future parents. Time to break the chain. I think letting the parent with the most money that has a job keep the kids would have a large impact on the welfare system. It would definatly reduce atleast 70% of the burden.

What if the parent who has a job and the most money doesn’t want custody? Or what if they have other character flaws that will affect their parenting? It sounds like a good point until you think about it. And it puts out the wrong message, that the one with the most money wins.

oh so that justifies us tax payers to pay for the lazy parent that wont go earn a living? I think not. I wish I was the law maker I would make everyone get a job and not give them free anything. Make them earn what they get. Its about letting the children be with the parent that can support them with out us tax payers doing it. I am sick of seeing all the lazy parents living it up with all the free food and cash with out any reason to get off the support. I think people should stop being losers and get jobs to support thier family I don’t think we should all have to support anyone else period.

While I don’t disagree with much of what the above last few repliers have suggested, here’s some food for thought.

I’m not a single mom but I AM a woman. Let me tell you male people something you may not be willing to recognize.

Many women DO NOT get paid what they are wroth. Period.

If a woman works for the state or federal goveyment then I believe this doesn’t necessarily apply. BUT for those of us who work normal jobs - we are often pretty well screwed out of what we’re worth - and it’s NOT that easy to find a job that will pay us what we are worth.

I happen to be a luckier one - I do not work for the state but I DO work for an individual who pays me pretty close to what I know I’m worth. I’ve FOUGHT for that pay and that job. Not everybody is as “female doglike” as I am. The previous four jobs I had in Idaho (since moving here thirteen years ago) were RIDICULOUSLY insultingly underpaying - and when I asked one of my previous co-workers why she put up with this her response was “They figure your husband makes the real money”.

AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

This was a college educated human being.

I pay for my own stuff - including my own health insurance. But - I’m NOT a single mom trying to make it on 78% of what the men around me make.

I know to some this will probably just infuriate the sense of how women just use the system - but I’ll tell it to you from MY point of view.

I don’t use the system, never HAVE in my entire life other than when my partner and I first moved here and got a heat bill paid (and my partner is a male - so he used the system for heat just as much as I did).

I’ve never been on food stamps, I’ve never been on state health aid, I’ve never been on ANY kind of long term help.

I don’t use the system, just like the guys I’ve worked with through the previous decade didn’t.

And I easily made 70% of what THEY made for doing the EXACT same job.

So - really - I think there is something to the fact that not everybody CAN make enough to get by.

There’s this concept called the “glass ceiling” and I do believe if you’re not female, racially not white, or some other minority - you might not really get knocked on the head by it too often, so you might be lucky enough to forget it exists.

This is a fact as I have lived it. The glass ceiling DOES exist, and the stunted ability for women to make as much as men DOES DOES DOES exist.

Take your current lifestyle, cut roughly one quarter of your monthly income from that - and THAT is where the woman “next door” (figuratively) probably is.

Like it or not.

And no sir, I do not like it.

Teachers should get paid LESS?????????????

No way! How about - career politicians should get paid less!

Now that’s a “less pay” idea I could be proud to vote for!

It’s sad but true that women still, to this day and in this country, are often treated as if our jobs don’t matter as much as mens jobs. We are subtly and not so subtly put down as being “less” worthy. Especially with regards to TEACHERS - the people who are instilling education and enlightenment in our very own children!

Egads.

Women often do not get reasonable respect in MANY forms (I’m one who is over forty I KNOW how bad it can be - hopefully younger women are increasingly having a better time of it).

Part TWO of that though is - women are afraid of being “female dogs” and “nags”. Many men (and some women) continually put women down for these traits - belittle them, make fun of them, disregard women if they express these traits - so to top it off - many women stay STUCK with lower paying jobs because they are literally afraid to come off as “famale dogs”. I am not one of those who is afraid - and let me tell you - it is difficult. I have put up with a lot of verbal abuse (name calling) over the years simply for standing up for myself.

We are not only stuck because there is a glass ceiling, we are stuck because many of us dare not be “uppity” - I KNOW for a fact that some of the women I’ve nown over the years are scared to behave as I do - afraid their families will be angry, they will upset their community standards, they will not be keeping their place as “good” women.

THIS is one of the reasons why women end up on welfare. It’s not always because they want to screw the ex out of his money or because they want to sit on thier rears eating bon-bons and being lazy. Often it IS very true that the woman really does not find a job that pays well enough to keep up wtih the lifestyle she had when she was married.

THAT - I believe - is why some women say comments like “my ex lives the high life while I suffer”. It is NOT so much that he is living a bling-i-riffic life, it is that HIS standard of living has not decreased when the divorce happened - and hers has.

I do recognize that there are men who have been royally taken to the cleaners by divorce lawyers - but I am pretty confident that there are more women who have found themselves lowering their standard of living and trying to get by on less than what they deseerve.

Like I said - I am NOT a single mom and I am NOT in this situation. I am simple a single woman and my earning potential is much more precarious than the earning potential of my partner - even though I have a degree and he does not.

I think we are not that atypical.

guest 555 i would recommend the following to you. Document, document, document. Every phone call, every visit, every time you pick them up, drop them off. Are the kids dirty or clean, wearing the same clothing, eating chips, fast food, or other junk food. Diapers not changed? EVERYTHING. Then, start calling CPS, everytime. Often. Then, suck it up, find a lawyer, and start shelling out. Sell your boat, your four-wheelers, your whatever you have to. Be patient, be persistent, be proactive. Remind your kids to tell the CPS person everything, complain about their conditions, the bf, everything.

Have hope, I now have full custody of my kids that used to be in a similar situation. It took a long time, and I’ll be paying the lawyer until I die. But, I have my kids. The good part is that now the kids visit their mother, and she is actually trying to improve.

Most parents are made non-custodial parents because it makes profits for the states and court systems.

guest555,

Don’t start with giving more $ to the attorney. They deal in evidence. Get the evidence first, as Ronin Rich, suggested. Only then go to the attorney. I would think video tape and photos taken by a private detective. This will make the attorney’s job easier–read: save you thousands in attorney fees that would be generated from the lawyer trying to build a case from documents.

Funny, that non-custodial parent remark(post# 112) intruiges me. Some years ago in my divorce I was awarded joint custody of my kids. In our case, that meant an exact split. I always thought that that’s what joint custody meant. My ex lived nearby, so it was no problem for us to swap them off for two weeks at a time. I paid her child support based on the difference of our income. After a two years, she got a better job. The state sent me a letter letting me know that I could request a review of my child support order. I did, and it resulted in my support being lowered by a substantial amount.
Throughout my experiences with the state child support services, it was painfully apparent that the whole system was biased against the men. Every time I tried to get answers to my questions, or get anything changed with my case, I was delayed, stonewalled, referred to someone else, and sometimes met with mild hostility from the women who work there. Granted, most of their cases involve collecting $$ from deadbeat men for women that need it. I felt that even upstanding guys that care for their kids & pay their way get the short end of the stick when dealing with state agencies.
Back to the point, even though my divorce decree said “joint custody”, in all correspondence from the state, my ex was always referred to as the “custodial parent”. I’ve always been suspicious of what that meant as far as the state considers it. Maybe someone could enlighten us as to exactly what the custodial parent is in the eyes of the state.

Well said IO.
As the wife of a non-custodial parent who faithfully pays everything he is required, I agree.

I read a hilarious opinion piece in today’s PR, regarding welfare. Kristen Gazaway noted that Congress passed strict welfare reform controls in 1996, capping lifetime welfare benefits to five years in cash aid, and forcing recipients to meet strict work requirements.

She said that almost 12 years later, we still have abuse of our American welfare system, and created a mock letter to Pakistan President Musharraf, admonishing him for receiving $100 million EVERY MONTH in American welfare aid, despite his abuses.

I think she had a great point. We made such a big deal of making our poorest citizens (heck and even non-citizens) earn their measly few welfare bucks, while every month we export more welfare dollars to one country for one dictator to enjoy than all of our country’s citizens receive.

That is messed up, thanks to Gazaway for pointing that out. Not that there’s much we can do to stop it, is there?

With all due respect Chris, it seems that the argument about food stamps should not be focused on any one segment of the population—especially skin color….how about we look at their contributions….or lack thereof? I know there are alot of people that feel very similarly; however, if we are to make a dent here it needs to be based on facts and figures….not skin color.

Wow!!!! I can’t believe Chris was allowed to make racist statments on this site. I guess that says it all that explains it. I hate to burst your bubble there mr klueless klan kid. This country was founded by imagrating people from all over this world. And the sad part is the Indians complained about the imagration problem back when white man first showed up. The problem with our society is they are racist judgmental bible reading jerks with out a mirror. I think blaming everything on the Mexicans is lame and really sad. I think they deserve more pay for knowing a second language. They deserve it for being educated. You know what Chris you are a waste of my time. You will never get it

Joe, I think his comment was racist. He assumes they have all the jobs and that they all get FS even though they work, because they’re Mexican. He complains about being a minority in his own country.

The definition and therefore test of a racist comment has been met.

I am curious…Chris says he is not employed and is on Food Stamps, which means he is likely one of those required to participate in their work program through the local Job Service. Job Service staff are experts at helping one get a job, if one truly wants to be employed, even in this are where the available jobs are more scarce. So how long has he been unemployed, with this service available to get him back in a job?

He mentions that the bilinguals get higher pay but it seems strange that if they have that higher pay, they could also qualify for Food Stamps, so I’m thinking if he sees so many on assistance it’s because they are working for crap wages and therefore still qualify. I worked full time for little more than minimum wage about 20 years ago and still qualified for Food Stamps.

As was already pointed out, the Native Americans had immigration complaint issues hundreds of years ago but our immigrant ancestors just kept coming (legally and illegally) and took over this country anyway. It’s a country built on immigration. I’ve got mine, so I’m not about to shut the door now and say someone else can’t get theirs.

I also want to say for the record. Americans have always blamed someone else for thier problems. First it was the Indian problem, The Negro problem,now the Mexican problem. What about the Caucasian problem? There are more whites on food stamps than any other race. I think its because most Americans wont apply them selves in School. So they get food stamps and welfare. I think they should get it if needed. No one should ever go hungry. I think people in general need to take responsibility for thier actions. Its Chris’s fault he doesnt have a job. Chris could work anywhere. But like always the majority of Americans wont work for a job unless it pays as much as a job requiring a college degree. I think get the degree first then apply for the jobs and work for less pay untill you can get a better job.

Everyone here that isnt an North American Indian is an illegal. Thats the problem that no one sees. The first step to understanding is to first look into ones self and see how they became a american. Sure I had said some things in response to Chris’s statment that probaly was not to nice. But you know what? This world is no longer a white mans world but the world of diversity and different ethnical back grounds.

Different religious beliefs but this comes down to the fact hispanics are not the problem here in America. I am saying there are some people that blame other ethnic back grounds for all of Americas problems. The real problems are the law makers scamming Americans into thinking they do not have a choice on how this country is run. It is still we the people and nothing can change that except ignorance. The united state is a haven for all races all religions and I think its ignorant to blame 1 race of people.

Look at America’s early development. Everyone complained that the Irish are taking all the jobs and Italiano’s are taking all the jobs and both of those groups are at fault for the crime in the country. This is a never ending battle. Now everyone is targeting hispanics and Islamic people too.

Look at the sterio types ” Islams are all terrorist” “Mexicans are using up all of the healthcare” “Mexicans can work and make more money than whites and still get food stamps” That is not true you have to meet income guidlines to qualify and also pass thru a case worker who desides if you get help or not even if you qualify. Trust me they can disqualify the most in need by personal opionions I am glad there are folks like me who care.

what ever.

So back to the Food Stamps post, do you realize that this is a Federal program, and not a state program???

The feds pay the state money to administer the program alongside their own state assistance programs such as Medicaid. But the Feds require that the state run the program by the Federal rules, (and this includes what people are allowed to purchase) and the state can’t make their own (more restrictive) rules in there.

In addition, the state gets audited to make sure they are doing things correctly. Idaho had such a high error rate that the Feds made the state pay large fines several years running, and only recently the state was able to turn things around and meet the Federal guidelines (and exceed them) to an extent that in December the governor was given a large check as a bonus for good work.

So although we may want to see changes in the program, they won’t happen from a state level, because it’s not a state program. Mike Crapo, Mike Simpson, Bill Sali and Larry Craig are your appropriate contact points for making changes in the Food Stamps program. And I think Mike Crapo even sits on the Agriculture committee which is even now debating the new Farm Bill…

Here’s your chance to get your opinions heard! But good luck on changing anything really important, because this is an election year…

That was obviously poorly worded on my part, Joe. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, the governer’s office accepted the Federal bonus check on behalf of the state, and it was not addressed to him, it was addressed to the state of Idaho, so I’m sure it went into the state coffers.

It was announced in the local media, it happened this last December.

Wow! Nice to see how this debate heated up! I enjoyed the debate between Mike & Live Free. It was just sad to see Live Free give up with his “whatever” remark. We do need “legal immigration”, but at the same token Live Free’s remark about the Hispanics doing many of the jobs that most of us won’t do is true as well. Last years potato farmers had a tough time with the crackdown at the border. Those that came over to work in the fields couldn’t get here and those farmers struggled. While I do believe our borders are top priority in this day and age, I do think we need to implement some type of work permit for farm workers and laborers that come over from Mexico. I do believe that they need to fix the problems in their own country instead of working in ours and going back to live in theirs. But in the meantime, it is a fact that certain jobs are no longer being filled because the Mexican workers aren’t here (or able to get here) to do them.

As for Chris: Although we have the lowest unemployment rate in the country right now, there are jobs out there. (that aren’t in the fast food industry) I know of three decent sized companies that are hiring right now for decent paying positions. While I’m not at liberty to say what companies these are, you will find them listed in either Monster.com, the Post Registers employment section, or betteridahofallsjobs.com. So don’t give up so easily and don’t be so quick to judge those that whatever they can to feed THEIR families. I don’t see how you can be posting in a blog, if you’re “living out of a car”. If you’re using the library for your internet access, than check those sites above. There ARE decent jobs available for those willing to find them.

You might try Qwest over by the airport. Their always hiring for customer service/phone positions. They’ll start you out at 10.50 an hour while your in training for 30 days, then it goes up to 12 an hour plus incentives. (if you upsell)
While it’s not excellent pay, it is much better than any fast food joint will give you.
Good luck!

ps…I would also talk to my landlord and tell him the situation I’m in. It’s better that you confront him headon and explain that you’re in between jobs and you’ll need a few weeks to catch up with your rent, than to hide from him and hope he lets it slide. I’ve found over the years that most landlords are very understanding and willing to work with you when it comes to situations like this. It’s going to cost them more to come in and evict you, clean up the place and get it ready to rent again, and then sit on the market for a couple of months. It’s easier for him to let you slide a month while you get your affairs in order.

you might want to try Idaho dept of labor and commerce. They help find jobs too. And talk to VR and see if they can help you with some of it. I am not sure if they can but I have seen them dish out 5,000.00 for a small buisness grant and also rent and car repairs and computers what ever some one may need to be successfull.

And for the record. I did not give up. I already said my point and had nothing further to say about the topic. I work for the media and learned some restraint.

Live Free: what is VR?

By the way! I told my food stamp worker that I quit my job and to up my food stamps and instead they lowered them to $65 from $201. Sometimes honesty hurts but I wouldn’t have it any other way ya know? I do start a job this Thursday tho and def won’t qualify for the program. A person can get used to $200 of free food a month and when its taken away $200 out of pocket is hard. I will just have to budget our money and stay on it!!

Live free is referring to Vocational Rehabilation, which is commonly referred to as VR. They have limits on the population that they can serve, typically disabled, etc.

I’m glad you got a new job. If your Food Stamps were reduced due to a job quit penalty, and you can show you have replaced that job with a new job you should tell your worker that, too, because your quit penalty might be ended and you might get higher benefits again for March. The rules these days allow for more help during certain situations, and your new job situation may help you for now.

Don’t be too proud and turn down the possibility of extra stamps, just because you have a new job. Just starting a new job is pretty stressful and it usually takes a little while to get the money rolling in, so think of it as a way to ease your transition into the workforce once again. Some states even have a transitional Food Stamps program, but Idaho does not.

I agree with what you and Slimpickens said about getting used to the help…trust me, even small amounts are hard to give up when your situation improves. I know someone who got a great job and stopped getting about $38.00 per month, and she thought that was hard to do. But she’s never had to have help again (it’s been 16 years) and she was glad to have the help when she needed it.

I wish you luck.

Good Job Mr. Chad!!!!

Let’s goto the Gator sometime.

“In some cases that is how people receive their child support payments. I have a family member who had to take the deadbeat parent to court to get child support. The state stepped in to help and garnished the deadbeats wages. My family member then received the child support money from the state in the form of a Quest Card account”

Idaho has had an influx of childless people from all over who’d never know this type of thing. foodstamps help the local economy and are spent locally, it’s not as though the money from foodstamps is deposited in the same swiss banks NYC diamond dealers use.;)

i bet these childess people are the first ones to scream to support the troops but then they deride someone with children wearing a 1980s rock concert t-shirt who could be a veteran who protected them from the islamosfasicm they learned to fear so much while living in NYC or wherever. lol.

why can’t a person wearing a rock concert t-shirt be entitled to foodstamps just as some welfare queen with 12 children in washington d.c. is entitled to foodstamps? there is there a double standard here?

“Joe Smith is in the grocery line and he is seething. The local school district just passed a levy to raise taxes in order to pay for a teacher raise. But right there in front of him is his son’s teacher. And that blankity blank teacher is buying beer, Doritos, and Twinkies. ”

With the endless levies passed by the bloated teacher’s unions you’d be hard pressed to find them not able to afford twinkies. considering how much benefits in healthcare they get compared to the average working stiff, the public should have a say in the type of lifestyle teachers choose to live as it can affect the cost taxpayers are taxed to support their lifestyle.

what if a teacher choosed to live a lifestyle which makes them more prone to STDs? shouldn’t the taxpayers have a say in this since the taxpayers pay for their healthcare?

Hey, Chad! Played any fantasy football, lately?

Glad to see you frequenting this fair forum. Maybe you can’t comment on this post but you could comment elsewhere, buddy.

Don’t be a stranger…

We need help…..you should get ahold of the EICAP. They are affiliated with the Haven….they have gleaning programs and offer food bank help so that you and your kids won’t starve. They are located in downtown I.F. at 357 Constitution, 522-5391.

I have the same issue too. I goto School and make just enought to pay the basics, electricity, rent, car payment, insurance, and gas, food? crap I dont have the money for that childcare eats 340.00 of it. guess food will have to wait. I already have 2 jobs and goto school full time. I dont have anymore time to increase the amount of money I make.

We wouldn’t have this problem is KIDS would stop having babies in the first place! Let alone not having the father around, we won’t even delve into that one! I was at a friends house the other day while he was checking out the personal sites, you know, Match.com Chemistry, all of those. And I can’t even begin to tell you how many women that were on these sites that are in their 20’s that are single and have 2-3 kids already. It makes absolutely now sense to me. The funny thing was though that 90 percent of them were LDS. I thought LDS people believed in the sanctity of marriage and didn’t get divorced as often as other folks? Not in this state that’s for sure!
Like I said, babies need to stop having babies and we wouldn’t have this food stamp problem!

Ok I am cooled off after hours of waiting. Sorry for coming a bit strong here. I have been thru hell being a dad and raising my children alone. I get attacked alot by women and I get so sick of it.

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I don’t think his comment was ignorant at all. Whatever DID happen to committment? Why are SO many people in this country so willing to just “give up” on their relationships and put their childrens happiness and wellbeing in jeapordy? I thought guest007 made some good points and I too believe it’s the reason we have so many of the problems we do in this country.
Don’t bash somebody elses comments just because they differ from yours. (that seems to be a major theme on this site. Lets call a poster ignorant because he believes in family values. yeah, that makes sense!)

Who says I don’t believe in family values? Who says I wasn’t committed. Some of you have a tendency to sit on your high horse and look down on others. I can assure you I am a well connected member of society, who really had no choice but to make the decision I did. Believe me, it was not easy to “quit”. That does not make me and my actions “part of the problem”. especially since part of my actions stemmed from getting my child removed from a situation where she could have been severely harmed. When it came to protecting my child or condoning my spouse’s dangerous lifestyle (for which she was warned about several times), I choose my child. I never looked back, and my kid benefited from my decision. Some of us get lucky the first time around, some of us don’t. That doesn’t make you any better than me. Especially since you didn’t have to make that hard decision. Sure, there are a lot of people who get married with the idea that they can get out of it easily by divorce. Not me. I never subscribed to that way of thinking. So don’t lump me into your opinion that anyone who gets divorced is a problem, or uncommitted, etc. It’s not true, and it is ignorant.

Hee hee. Joe, I was always amused by the title of that Green Day song, it’s called “Good Riddance”.

Such a frank (and slightly angry) title for such touchy feely lyrics.

But you have nailed the anger issue, I think. We don’t want to be taken advantage of by those who aren’t doing their fair share of the work in society, those who aren’t putting in their fair share of trying to better themselves and sit back and let us shoulder the burden of paying for their lives…when no one is doing the same for us…

I’m one of those (here comes the name calling) fools who hands a $20 bill to the guys (very rarely gals) standing on the street corners. I figure I can help out if they’re willing to suffer the indignity of publicly asking for help. Those of you who think I’m contributing to the problem, you’re entitled to your opinion.

But in my opinion, I’m not judging the merits of their need, whether they use it to buy alcohol or drugs, or whether they’re scamming me and are really rich, or whatever. I’m responding to the request for help, because I can, and it’s my choice. If I were to assume none of them were worthy of help I would be making a judgment based upon my own mental baggage and not upon what I actually know about the person.

I try to suspend my cynicism for a short while and be charitable in that small way. It may only be my humanity I’m paying for, but at least I’m trying.

Wow. I actualy see some educated open minded responses. Ok I have a few things to add lol. I was madly in love with my childrens mom she just didnt want to grow up and be a mom to the kids. Her life style is a bad one. We even tried family counseling and that was a joke. I decided it was better to get a devorce and move on. I am only on public assistance right now because I am trying to goto school I am taking 18 credits and its hard I never get time to work another job I only can work 2 right now. Part time jobs. My children are very happy but can be bad real fast if they think they can pull one on a child care worker. Disipline is very important in a childs development. Grounding, talking, naughty corner, sad chair, spankings etc. And my favorite one is tender loving care. The child will always respect you even if you do spank them. I always show my kids I love them very much. my daughter is 5 and has a first grade education my son is 7 and he is smart too. I think letting children live a fantasy disneyland life is bad. You should always tell them the truth and talk to them like they are small people or small adults. Most of the time they make good choices. good reasoning is part of a childs morals and rules set for them at home.

cool. i am glad to hear the marriage lasted so long thats rarety in todays society.

I guess I did not want to save mine that bad. I was a bit disturbed about other men having sex with her. I guess I am a bad person because I have some morals and don’t really like sharing a partner. Especialy someone who I was going to marry. I think its a good idea to end it when they are sleeping around and abusing drugs, stealing, lying, But think what you want. I do not care if everyone curses me I am getting used to it. I am sure someone has some kind of rejection and something rude to say I am just going to sit here and wait for it.

I know I am so horible and grotesk everyone hates me. here is the list of things everyone on here hates and I have a list of no no’s on here.

1. I smoke cigarettes
2. I pack a gun
3. I get public assistance
4. Ive been devorced
5. I am a man raising my children alone (im satan in know)

6. I do not believe in christ or god (im dead now for sure)

7. I spank both my kids
8. I am not mentaly ill (oh no now im not normal)
9. I back our soldiers in Iraq (now im a bad guy)
10.I don’t agree with a topic just to win freinds.
11.I say what is on my mind.
12.I live free and dream free
13. I live outside the box.

I think I have listed all the reasons everyone hates me so bad on here.

I started my own list of why people wouldn’t like me on this site, but it was too long and I realized I didn’t care what others think.

Remember most of us here are concerned more with the quality of statements, what you say in each comment, than in the quality of who you are as a person in the real world. I think if you reread some of these conversations you’ll see people reacting to the quality of your words not the quality of who you are.

Or I’m just a plain idiot, that was on my list too. 8^)

Where there any legislative changes proposed this session to welfare?

I’ve heard the LDS church’s welfare program requires participants to work for their benefits. Not to get into the religion issues, but it’s a feature of their welfare program I think the state should adopt. From what I’ve heard, the work is nothing major, just cleaning or painting their buildings. I’ve also heard they get a lot of folks who walk away when they hear they have to put in a little work to earn the welfare money.

Why doesn’t the state have a similar program? We can excuse the paraplegics and elderly, but most everyone else should be able to do some work in exchange for public money, shouldn’t they?

I would like to see something minor required, say 10 hours a month of community service for each month you receive benefits. What’s the problem with this idea?

To live free: Were you married to this woman or not? First you said you married and divorced her, then a few days later you say “Especialy someone who I was going to marry, I think its a good idea to end it when they are sleeping around..” Sounds like you don’t have your story very straight. I think you are full of stories and tall tells. It’s sad hen someone feels they need to say “look at me” with so many wild stories.

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Well said Mike!

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/faqs.htm#20
“46 percent of participants are white; 31 percent are African-American, non-Hispanic; 13 percent are Hispanic”

Whites are under-represented in foodstamps per their population (USA is 60% White, though declining with massive third world immigration) group where-as Blacks are doubly over-represented.

According to http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Blacks commit an astounding 52% of all homicide in the U.S despite being 13% of the population.

I understand where you are coming from JasonP, but you’re cherry picking the statistics that suit your viewpoint.

I challenge you to find the stastics on how much educational funding black schools get, how many of those blacks in prison for murder come from broken homes, etc. Have you ever seen the studies where exact same resumes are submitted to companies but one has a black-sounding name; guess which resume doesn’t get called back? I’m reading a Bill Cosby book now called “Come On People” that aims to make blacks stop living victimized, it has some interesting statistics.

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JFYI 007 I only married 1 person and we never had kids I devorced her. Both of my kids are with different moms and they both are trashy trouoble making and welfare using wrecks. These women can’t change thier life they have damaged it way to bad.

I also met this gal at school she has 3 boys all from different Dads and lives off welfare and goes to school. She is a nice gal but her house is very filthy and I can’t stand someone who is a dirty person. I would love to help her with her boys and even date her. But she isnt going to clean up after them and I do not have time to. I went over to her house and helped her clean it like 4 times now and she lets it get out of control everytime. She doesnt take care of her stuff at all. That tells me she wouldnt respect mine. She is real poor and has no money. Money isnt everything I look for a good hearted honest person who is also clean. there is no excuse for someone to be dirty. I keep my place very clean and my hygene si good too. I know for a fact this gal can keep the place clean if she trains her boys to pick up messes they make. I proved it and made them help us clean the house. I think they did very well. But she has no idea how to get her kids to clean. I was like here pick up that car and toss it in your toy box. ” NO!!!” Oh okay I guess your still a little baby and dont know how to yet. He said ” yes I do ” I was like no you do not. He put the car in the toy box. then I was like yea right that was just luck if you could really do it you would pick them all up. Her boy picked them all up. The other 2 picked up trash and hauled it out then cleaned the kitchen table and washed the floor by hand in the kitchen and helped me wash walls off. So I had this place cleaned good and showed her how to get the boys to help and explained what ground rules she needed to keep them from wrecking it. She is still a filthy pig. I can’t stay attracted to a pig yuk.

WOW! That’s just a little more information than I needed to know…

Yeah he can can’t he? LOL!
Then he goes on and says he can’t be with this filty girl he met and that he doesn’t have time to clean up after her and her kids, yet he’s gone over their 4 times to do it anyways. Yeah, that makes sense. And if that’s not enough, look at how he’s trying to teach HER children. Calling one a “baby” because he won’t pick up after himself. GREAT parenting skills!
Obviously he’s attracted to the drama and chaos of low income single mothers. Livefree….perhaps you should look at your past mistakes and actually learn from them. You’ve got two different kids from two different women who were both trashy and on welfare. I think a light should have gone off in his head when he met this girl from school who is exactly the same.
You explain that the first two can’t change their lives because they’ve “damaged them too bad”? (first off….that makes no sense whatsoever….ANYBODY can change if they set their mind to it)….but if that’s not enough, he falls right back into the same problems and issues he had with the first two by dating (or at least hanging out with) yet another women who doesn’t have her life together.

Not that it’s my business,(but since you’re airing all your dirty laundry online, alls fair) I personally think you need to take some parenting classes to really learn how to treat children. You don’t degrade them in order to have them do something. If that’s what you do to SOMEBODY ELSE’s kids, I’m afraid to think of what you do to your own!
And two, I don’t think you should be looking for anyone else to date that has children OR is on welfare. Seems you’ve got enough problems trying to raise your own, you don’t need more of that drama in your life.
It would be wise for you to stop posting your issues and problems online. I notice that you asked Joe to go through all your past posts and delete comments you wrote that will “identify you”? I don’t think any of your posts identify you per se’, but you do post an awful lot of personal stuff. You might wanna try Myspace or a site like that if you want everyone to know your personal business.
but that’s just my 2 cents.
It doesn’t matter to me either way….I find it quite entertaining!

I might also suggest that he take some parenting classes. I think you’re drawn to the drama that comes with low-income women on welfare with a handful of kids. You’ve already had two kids with two different women who were on welfare and now you’ve met a girl you like who’s got THREE kids from THREE different guys. Call me crazy but that should have turned on a little red light in your brain when you met THIS one. You say you can be with someone like her, yet you’ve already been over there and helped her clean her house 4 times. THAT’s smart! Then you attempt to discipline HER kids by degrading them….calling them “babies” because they won’t pick up their toys? WOW!! If thats how you treat OTHER peoples kids….I’d hate to see how you treat your own. Dude….you don’t degrade children in order to get them do what you want. That’s just not how you discipline a child! Look into some counseling buddy because it’s obvious you’re not going to get out of this rut until you do. Stop dating women on welfare with a handful of kids! You may say it’s none of my business, but then again its you who continue to air your dirty laundry on this site every day, after many of the posters have suggested otherwise. So don’t be surprised when others offer their opinions.
I suggest you look into some parenting classes as well.
Take care & best of luck!

It boggles my mind….it really does. We’ve been telling this guy to stop discussing his personal life on this site for weeks, yet he still continues to. And to the extent that he did in post 192 was pretty extreme. But from reading the post, you can definetly see why he’s got the problems that he does. Some people just thrive on drama in their lives. I for one feel sorry for all the kids involved here. Their all growing up in broken homes living on govt assistance and thinking that’s normal. That’s whats sad.
I have to agree with 007….I sure hope you don’t talk down to your kids like that when they don’t do what you ask them to. That was pretty disheartening to read.

I think you should take everyones advice (again) and leave out the personal stories.
So, can we get back on the topic now?

We as a society (and I am as bad as anyone else) jump to conclusions far too quickly, and we make rash, unfounded judgments far too often.

using reverse psycology isnt degrading a child. All I was doing was telling the child I did not think they could do it. So the child naturaly wanted to prove me wrong and did it. Its just another way to get them to clean up messes or listen. I was describing someone I had met that is currently using food stamps and welfare system and takes no personal responsibility to keep her things in order. The reason for the detail is there are so many people who twist things people write on here. I noticed still more tried after that post. Good try guess I am lucky I encluded good detail. PARENTING CLASSES??? I hope that wasnt directed towards me. I have taken several parenting classes and reverse psycology is taught in that class. There is nothing wrong with using that wonderfull method on children it works try it. Just tell them when they wont clean thier room that they are still to little and havent become a big boy or girl yet. Big boys and girls alwayts keep a clean room. I tell you what that child will clean it lol.

I tell ya what bothers me is someone that gets all of this welfare and wont work and stays at home and raises the kids and wont clean thier house. I think they should get taken away from thier mom when the house gets that filthy and she should lose her food stamps if she can’t even clean the house or work part time. I raise kids by my self and I can keep my place nice and spottless. I am a busy person too. There isnt any excuse for it. I am sure someone will fine one I can’t wait to hear it.

I do not see why anyone really didnt like that post. I was describing a situtation that is far to common. Well its your choice to take it as you may. I supplied the story you supply the understanding. I noticed alot of people tend to ignore things said and add thier own opinions but thats fine too. There alos seems to be several other parents on here that neglect teaching thier children right from wrong and let them do what they want. Well I hope you can pay for the kiddie jail time they are going to get someday for not listening to authorities. I am a proud parent because I have faith my children will always know right from wrong.

livefree….reverse psychology is one thing, calling them names in order to get them to do what you want, is a complete other. I can promise you they don’t teach you that in your “parenting class”.
And who are you to discipline this girls children anyways? You say you don’t want to date her because she’s “a filty pig”, yet you’ve gone over there on 4 seperate occasions (that we know of) to help her clean her house. Obviously something is there, or you wouldn’t continue to clean her house, or let her “use you” to clean her house. Seriously, you should find somebody a little more “stable”. A girl thats on welfare and has 4 kids from 4 different guys, is far from stable. In fact, we called them “tramps” back in my day. Is your self esteem really THAT low?
You also stated that “you noticed a lot of parents on this site that neglect teaching their children right from wrong”. How’d did you come about this assesment? I certainly haven’t read anywhere where somebody has written or even admitted to NOT teaching their children right from wrong. It’s assumptions like this that keep too many people on this site from taking what you say too seriously.
How about keeping the personal stories out of your post and that will prevent others from making snap judgements about you?
I notice that you asked Joe the other day to go through all of your posts and delete any personal information that may “identify” you. Than you go and write a personal experience like the one above? Can we say “bi-polar”? you gotta admit….that was a little odd. Nobody wants to hear about you cleaning some girls house because she’s a filty pig. This isn’t the Jerry Springer show. (although sometimes….)

Sorry, I certainly didn’t mean it like that.

Alot of people have a hard time getting by, including those that work and have children. No one is arguing against a safety net. The main point is that at any given time some people might need the net. How long they continue to rely on the net (assuming they are able to work) is the real issue. I know some kids at Development Workshop that border IQ’s of 70…..they get up and goto work every day….in fact, they look forward to it!

When I look at the work ethic in these kids it makes me shake my head in wonder about the channel surfing, cheeto eating, Oprah watching lazy people that sit around all day and expect a $75,000 job to jump in their lap or they aren’t going to work for “peanuts”. These are the type of folks that make blood shoot out of my eyes…..and which I have no problem cutting off public assistance.