I am the original bleeding heart. I mean that.
However, lately, I’ve been rethinking the whole concept of state-sponsored charity – namely, food stamps. This is mainly because every time I go to WinCo, I leave mad as hell.
You know what I’m talking about. I’m talking about you going through the store, being very careful to pick up the generic brands, avoiding the pre-made meals section, buying in bulk, eating before you shop … you know, being a “smart shopper”, as we like to call ourselves. You make a neat, tidy list before you leave for the store, you shut out your peripheral vision while you shop to avoid tasty, colorful tempations. You are on a mission, and that mission is to keep your weekly grocery bill below $50, and you usually succeed.
Then you get to the checkout lane.
The person ahead of you looks like they haven’t bathed in a few weeks. They’re usually wearing a faded t-shirt from the ‘85 Foreigner tour (with Styx … totally freakin’ awesome) and have about a dozen kids bouncing in and out of their cart. Their cart is overflowing with every imaginable type of junk food – muffins, cupcakes, ice cream, TV dinners, mac ‘n’ cheese, sugar-laced cereals, sodey pop … the list goes on and on. If you’re like me, you’re disgusted at the kind of food these people are giving their kids. You want to call the police and report them for child abuse or give them a pamphlet with the food pyramid.
But you don’t. You let them check out while you read up on the latest on Brangelina.
After about an hour, the clerk is done, and the tab is usually upwards of $150. Junk food is expensive. Then, it happens. Mr. Foreigner-loving-rabbit-breeding-mullet-head casually pulls out his card. Nope, not his debit card. Not a credit card. He pulls out the old Quest card.
This brings up a question – is it time to rethink our food stamps program? Isn’t it just another contributing factor to our national obesity epidemic? Is allowing food stamps to be used for fatty foods and unhealthy dishes another way that the state is contributing to our national health crisis, if not allowing the ongoing child abuse stemming from teaching kids bad eating habits?
What is worse is when you see the remaining total after the food stamps have covered most of the garbage in the basket – usually somewhere around $10 … most of the time, this is for beer and/or cigarettes.
If the state is able to regulate what food stamps cover, why not stop at beer and cigarettes? Should we extend the limitations to remove sugar-drenched soda, candy, unhealthy cereal, and other junk food? Or, should those who cannot afford food for their families but can afford to feed an alcohol or nicotine addiction be exempt from the program?
To illustrate my point, I will tell you about someone I know very well. She was raised in a loving, caring home, but rejected that for a life of sex and drug abuse. She became pregnant at age 16, dropped out of school, and became addicted to cigarettes. Recently, she moved back home after her baby’s daddy moved away, and signed up for the food stamps program. After hearing how much she would recieve on a monthly basis, her first response was “Hey guys, now I can make that shrimp thing that I couldn’t afford before!”
I rest my case.
Like I said, I am the original bleeding heart, and I believe that the State can do much to help those in need, but the case of this girl I know and the countless times I have been disgusted in the checkout lane highlight a desperate need for reformation of the system, if not a total revamp.
Perhaps we should limit WIC coverage to cheese, milk, bread, fresh and canned veggies, fresh and frozen meats, and healthy juices. Perhaps we should require applicants to quit smoking (we could even cover nicotine patches under WIC!) and control their beer habits. That’s not to say that beer is inherently bad or that people who drink it are irresponsible – I actually very much enjoy a beer or two from time to time. However, when my budget doesn’t allow, you know what I do? I go without.
Maybe there is a lesson in that concept for the future of our food stamps program – perhaps it’s time the state allows our children to go without. That is, to go without sugar and fat, to go without inhaling noxious fumes from cigarettes, to go without junk food in exhange for a healthy alternative – real food.
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I like your post Jeremy – I cannot tell you how much I like it. I won’t profess to be the original bleeding heart like you, but I want to make sure children and pregnant women have sound nutrition. It sounds like what you are proposing is a very solid idea. I, too, get angry at the entitlement of what people can get, once they qualify for certain subsidies. And as you mention, almot always the cigarettes and beer are in the check -out cart.
One other that just put me in orbit, is when people receiving whatever forms of public assistance, go to medical or mental health appts. and talk on their flippin cell phones. Like you, when I don’t have the $, I do without. Although I’ve seen it for years, the cell phone thing irks me to no end.
I realize people who find themselves in situations of receiving public assistance are as different as those of us who don’t. I don’t think many of us begrudge senior citizens and others who are buying basics like rice, flour, cheese, dairy products or meat etc. There are also younger people who find themselves in situations that couldn’t be predicted, such as job layoffs, sickness in their family, a delayed/disabled child etc. Yet, I find those are NOT the people for the most part buying fast food or trying to figure out how to make the system work for them.
I have to leave this follow up comment here for now. But, I do hope to be able to add more later. I do believe this to be a very appropriate subject and hope our guests who joined in the chat with also leave comments in the comment section so others may read your views.
I agree that something needs to be done with the food stamp guidelines.
But first to clarify, WIC is for pregnant or nursing mothers, and for young children. WIC only covers milk or formula, baby cereal, cheese, eggs, carrots, beans, peanut butter, juice and cereal (only fiber enriched, no sugar cereals). There is only a few different kinds of cereals you can get on WIC. The only ones I can remember right now are Cherios, Kix, Shredded Wheat, and a few hot cereals. It used to irritate me when people would come through my line and try to get the sugary cereals and get mad when I would show them the list of approved cereals they could choose from. Their response was, well my kids don’t like those kinds. They totally didn’t get that WIC was as much for the nutrition needs as well as the financial help.
And the food stamp issue always irritated me as well. I could always tell the people who really needed the help. They were buying the cheaper food and trying to make it stretch as far as possible. (Just like those of us on a budget do)
And then you get those who buy all the junk food, and all the expensive meat, pop, etc. And then they turn around and spend $50 cash on beer and cigarretes. I even had a couple people try to convince me to run their cigarettes as food so they could use their food stamps. As if losing my job was worth it to me to sell them cigarettes. I also had a lady come through my line just before Christmas with a $40 Prime Rib, and big sheet cake from the bakery and a cart load of pop, and precede to pay with food stamps. I was furious. If she is poor enough to need food stamps, she shouldn’t be having a party which that stuff was obviously for. When I don’t have the money for things like that, I just don’t buy it.
Now I realize that food stamps are there for a reason, and there are people who really need the help, and not everybody takes advantage of the system. BUT, I have seen too many people taking advantage of the system and I think they should enforce some guidelines as to what can be purchased with food stamps. First of all, I don’t think junk food (candy, chips, pop, ice cream, etc.)should be allowed. In fact I think that before those items are allowed, they should consider adding necessities such as toilet paper.
If they would enforce stricter guidelines, fewer people would be able to take advantage of the system.
I’ve heard the Mormon church’s welfare program requires recipients to perform work to earn the money. The work can be as simple as cleaning some church buildings, but something is required. I’ve also heard most people who inquire about welfare from the Mormon church express disappointment in this requirement and don’t pursue it.
Perhaps if Idaho setup work programs to earn the welfare money?
It could be run similar to the prison work system, but of course not as harsh and treating the people with more dignity.
The work could be picking up trash in our parks and the greenbelt, serving as crosswalk guards, washing city vehicles, etc. At the end of the shift the work supervisor could note how many ‘credits’ they get.
I realize the work supervisors would be a cost, but then we could have savings on city workers who currently do those jobs.
Could this solution help discourage people who really don’t need the assistance and help beautify IF without increased costs?
Quest cards are not always for food stamp / welfare purposes.
In some cases that is how people receive their child support payments. I have a family member who had to take the deadbeat parent to court to get child support. The state stepped in to help and garnished the deadbeats wages. My family member then received the child support money from the state in the form of a Quest Card account. Just something to think about next time you get angry about how someone is using their Quest card. Not everyone is poor, a welfare recipient, etc.
My family member was embarrassed to use the card a lot. Despite the fact she was making near six figures she had a Quest card. And invariably she always got dirty looks when she went to use it.
I don’t know how to leave a link but if you google -Idaho quest cards child support – you’ll see I’m right.
Good point!
Should we give welfare recipients a different card so we can identify and thus glare at them in lines? Perhaps a scarlet letter?
Is glaring at Jeremy’s described typical scene (I agree it boils my blood too) just attacking the symptoms of the larger problem?
Why get mad at that person individually when they just took advantage of what the system offered?
How to change the system, and get at the real problem instead just the symptoms?
One strategy could be my work idea, what are other ideas?
I propose state-mandated sterilization. There are too many people on this planet. We have crossed the sustainability of the current population – 6.4 billion people. Why on Earth would anyone want to keep adding indiscrimately to the problem. Required sterilization is the key!
The LDS church not only requires work for the help given, it does not provide junk food in any way shape or form. Recipients go to a store house that gives the truly poor basic foods; meat, potatoes, vegetable, etc. plus a simple cookbook to teach people how to put these ingredients together for nutritious, tasty meals.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
I like the idea for simple cookbooks also. People on welfare obviously are not controlling their money well, perhaps passing basic economics and personal money management classes could be mandated?
If we were going to redesign welfare from start to finish, what would we change?
What is the need for public assistance?
What are the goals for public assistance?
How to carry out those goals so society and recipients get the best bang for the buck in reaching those goals?
I admit I have limited knowlege regarding how the system actually works, but today’s blog stemmed from my shopping trip yesterday when the lady in front of my used food stamps (I know this because the screen said “FOOD STAMPS”). So perhaps it’s not a widespread a problem as I originally thought, but there is still a problem with the system.
I like the Bishop’s Storehouse program mentioned by Paula. That’s the way it should be.
So instead of a blank check, perhaps the State should draw up contracts with local farmers, bakers, food producers and distributers to mimick the Mormons’ system. It would help the people and local farmers, as well as weed out the abuses.
What do you all think?
The American Way used to be hard work. Now it’s figuring out how to game the system to your advantage. And, unfortunately, the government makes it pretty easy. Case in point: My wife and I were shocked when school started to find out that we qualify for the reduced price school lunch program. My wife thought for sure the lady at the school was drinking Drano when she told us, but I found the income guidelines the government uses. I make more than $20 an hour as a technical writer. If I made another 13 cents an hour, we would be on the cusp of not qualifying, based on our family size (three children). Federal programs make it too easy. There are more people on “welfare” than you think.
I’ve seen the LDS Welfare progam in action, and it works. Recipients do indeed have to work for what they get — and that’s after they’ve got jobs and have also tapped on family for support before going to the church. Dubya has made a lot of noise about getting “Faith-based” groups more involved in federal welfare programs, to mixed success.
Then again, I’d like to know who died and made us all judges of the people we see. There are abusers. But these programs, especially WIC, work to the advantage of many families. We don’t always know people’s circumstances, though it’s a fair bet if they’re buying prime cuts of beef and junk food, they’re just morons. But sterilization? Harsh, dude. Whenever anyone suggests that, I say, get in line first. This world’s problem isn’t overpopulation, it’s greed.
That is true we don’t know everyone’s circumstances. I actually personally know a few people who have had situations where they had to be on food stamps. I agree the system helps many families in need. I just think there needs to be more of a checks and balance system in place to minimize the number of people who abuse the system.
And as far as the child support payments being used in this form, I know that that is true. Child Support, Welfare payments, and I could be wrong, but I think disability payments as well are issued on Qwest cards. That is unfortunate and not right that your friend is treated this way just because they have a Qwest card.
As a cashier I knew which purchases were actually food stamps because the customer had to tell me if it was food stamps or a cash payment. It is ran as cash (at least where I worked) because they can actually use an ATM and withdraw the cash like a debt card.
And state mandated sterilization?! Who died and made you God? Nobody has the right to say that somebody else should be sterilized. It’s none of your business if I have no kids or if I have 10 kids. I agree with Brian, get in line first.
I think people should have the right to pick what they want to eat. The government already has way to much control over other issues. Why give them more control? A work program to earn the food?? What about the disabled people that can’t work?> does that mean they should just starve>>? and what about the old folks? Should they be forced to grab the good old walker or wheel chair and goto work? And risk a heart attack?
There is nothing wrong with food stamps. Its a supliment not a month supply of food. It just helps families cope with not having enough money. I get 70.00 a mo and wic for my children. It helps when daycare bills are out of control. And half my paycheck goes to child support and daycare. Gas prices is killing us too. Also rent is real high. Some people need the help. Who has time to work another program when you already have 2 jobs and can’t make it?
How does the Mormon Church’s welfare program take into account disabilities?
Disabled people can still do some thing, right? I’ve known some who would be happy to do many things, because they don’t get many chances elsewhere.
Of course totally disabled people would have to be exempted. Our ideas here seem to be fiscally conservative and trying to get mileage for the money, not being coldhearted.
Guest –
I can tell the food stamp and assistance program has helped you, and you sound like you don’t take advantage of the situation. I believe the posts on this topic stress the upsetting situations of a few. You state there is nothing wrong with the system, I disagree. My friend’s ex-wife, receives almost $1,000 a month in child support and to pay for his part of “work related child care expenses†aka. Daycare. She in turn is a full time student, works 0 hours a week except during the summer for 2 months, so she can earn just enough to qualify for full financial aid and government assistance. She pays $40 a month for rent, and receives over $200 a month in food stamps, and an unknown amount of monetary assistance for living expenses. Now you do the math. She is a single mother whose marriage did not last. With two elementary age students it is hard yes, but she does not work at all. My friend pays for childcare even on the days she does not have class. She is not working during those days; she is at Barnes and Noble enjoying her lattes! There has never been a bigger proponent for single mother assistance, because my mother was one, but she worked her *ss off for us. We had free lunches, but if the child support check didn’t come, we didn’t pay rent. This women is living off the state, literally. My friend doesn’t begrudge her for the child support. He understands the need to help pay for his two children, but it pains me each time I have to enter that $10 box on my Idaho State Income Tax knowing I am paying for her to not work at all!
Joe- in answer to your question as to how the LDS church handles welfare for the disabled and elderly. Almost everyone, unless they are a quadraplegic, suffer from Alzheimers, etc. can do SOMETHING. And most of the truly needy, ESPECIALLY the disabled and elderly, take great pride in being able to earn their own way. Take a tour of Deseret Industries,or any area thrift store sometime. There are people whose job is to simply cut buttons off nonusable clothing. (You can buy great jars of assorted buttons there at DI) There are people sorting incoming donations, cleaning small applicances, stocking shelves, making deliveries, putting clothes on hangers,etc. Even homebound individuals can cut quilt squares which are made into warm blankets and shipped to disaster areas. They can assemble humanitarian kits (hygiene, newborn, school kits) to send to third world countries. Shut ins can knit booties for infants or crochet special bandages for lepers. Yes, this horrid plague still exists in parts of the world.
It is a great disservice to people who CAN contribute to strip them of the pride and dignity that results from an honest days work. As to the next question, how can the government incorporate some of these ideas? I don’t know, because most of the labor and the goods in this church’s system are donated – from production on the church farm to the cannery to managing the storehouse. But this I do know, as long as we have a system of handing out fish, we are not going to produce a generation of fishermen.
When you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you’re not going to hear a lot of complaints from Paul.
Speaking of state mandated sterilization…don’t think it hasn’t happened in our country’s past history. We sterilized as few as 40,000 and perhaps over 100,000 people in this country, some as late as the 1960’s. Buck vs. Bell, the 1927 Supreme Court decision, legalized sterilization of a third generation welfare recipient, Carrie Buck, in Virginia. The law was used extensively throughout the country with California the leading state in numbers of sterilizations. Supreme Court justice, Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote the majority opinion in Buck vs. Bell and his speech was quoted in the movie “Judgement at Nuremberg” by the defense attorney representing the German judge on trial (played by Bert Lancaster).
This is an interesting historical view of how our grandfathers handled some of the problems we presently face regarding welfare. Anyone interested can Google… Buck vs. Bell and read more about it.
Sure there are alot of problems with the Health and Welfare system. They tend to help women more than men. Single fathers do not get much from them. My ex has the son. And I have the Daughter. We make the same income. She gets 400.00 a mo food assistance and housing. I get 70.00 a mo food assistance and no housing. And any disputes in court over custody or child support. She gets a free lawyer and help I get a 2,000.00 legal bill from a lawyer. the system isnt fair. Your right some people do abuse the system and get away with it. We have to shop very carefully and make alot of home made dinners and lunches. Maybee someone can post a story about easy and cheap meals you can make that are healthy. My point is Some people already work real hard and do not have time to work for the assistance. And what about day care expenses?? If they made everyone work for the assistance they can’t afford the daycare expenses. daycare cost alot. They could have used that money to buy the food. Most people that are getting benifits do not have the extra money to pay daycare expenses to work for the food. And also have a busy schedule Its different for everyone’s case. I know a gal that is raising 2 autisitc boys on her own. And gets no child support her ex husband he is in prison for life. She gets 1,200.00 a mo in social security for the 2 boys. And she should be on social security she has some serious mental illness. And has counseling apointments, docor apointments, school apointments for her and the boys. Then house work etc she doesnt have time for her self let alone any program that would make her work for food. She is mormon too. the church doesnt ask her to work for it becuase they know she can’t.
Wait … so were you being serious with the manditory sterilization comment? I thought for sure that comment was one of those stupid e-smartass things you see from time to time … but seriously?
That’s scary.
Stephen J. Gould wrote a complete chapter on Buck vs. Bell in one of his books (I can’t remember which one). Paraphrasing Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., “We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices….Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”
I am absolutely serious about mandated sterilization. Responsibility is what we are talking about. Case and point; animals. They don’t know how to be responsible, so we sterilize them to help limit the problem of overpopulation. Same should happen with humans. Should they not live responsibly with family planning, etcetera, then they should be forced to be responsible. We have laws in this land to reign in living beyond responsibilities. Having too many children that one cannot support is irresponsible. Is it incumbent on society to carry the responsibility of those who don’t give a damn? I suppose to a certain extent, yes, but there has to be a line of delineation. Snip, Snip. Problem reduced. Can there not be any better solution?
People need to wake up and see that the current course is not one of long term survival. Drastic changes will be needed. This is only one!
The Chinese realized many years ago that they could not keep on having multiple children families and survive as a nation. They mandate a one child limit per household and force abortions on those women who already have a child. This may seem extreme to us in this country, but we have not reached our “load carrying capacity” as the Chinese have done already.
Mandatory sterilization as a form of eugenics is a repulsive throwback to Nazi Germany to most of us but I wonder how we would feel if we too became as overpopulated as India and China, to name a few, now are. Would we then seek ways to limit our population as a means of survival?
Would we have government agencies that decided who could and could not reproduce? Scary, huh?
Sorry for getting off track on this food stamp issue, Jeremy, but I wasn’t the first one to do it.
I’ll support mandatory sterilization if we can start with people like Tom to make sure that there are no more little “Toms” coming into the world.
Of course I’m not serious but its scary to think that there are actually people out there who believe what he does.
Tom – you are obviously without flaw and have always acted responsibly. Perhaps you should cast the first stone?
Well its toms opinion. I may not agree with his remedy. I think everyone should be heard even thou its not what everyone wanted to hear. I would like to see families go back to the morals americans had over 75 years ago. Unfortunatly the economy wont allow that. It takes everyone working 1-2 jobs to make a good living. you can’t support the family on 1 income anymore. Food stamps is good for the most part. And so is medacaid. Its hard to pass on good morals to your children if your always at work and they are always in daycare. You can,t even dish out a good woopin like our parents did to us as kids. I remember the sting of a willow stick on the rear end. I sure was a good kid.
Psychologically, day care is very good for kids. Kids over the age of two should be in day care for at lease six hours a day, four days a week. It teaches them to share and begins the socialization process.
Also, “dishin’ out a good whoopin” may have worked on you, but scientifically and statistically, it’s ineffective. There’s nothing wrong with sparring the rod.
Oh I am sorry jeremy your right. Your always right. No one else is correct. Only you.
Guest, The point isn’t that there are people who genuinely need help, people who are doing all they can to provide for their families. We’re talking about able bodied people who don’t see the need to work for what they get or who do not make wise decisions with the money they are given – like the woman in front of me at the checkout buying steak with food stamps all the while telling the clerk how much her dog loves sirloin. ALL tax payers should be appalled at such abuse of the system! It’s not about “feelings” It’s about common sense!
I still disagree. the comments he made sterio typing people. he is basicly saying people on food stamps are filthy ,and smell, have several kids,wear old clothes, You know what the comments jeremy made are very wrong. I do not think its anyones buisness to control what people choose to eat. I am sorry to offend anyone. But I find the sterio typing poor people wrong and also trying to take away the right to choose what they eat. The system gives people what they are aloted due to income. If that person waiste the food stamps big deal . They suffer from it. Junk food?? no one has the right to tell people what to eat. You all think its ok because they are poor and shouldnt have any rights. I just would like to see people come up with a point of view that is origianl not a follow the leader comment.
Then for him to say in order to get on wic they can’t smoke or drink??? There is no way that will ever fly. This is the United States we all have rights. I do not smoke or drink. anmd still find it ofensive that someone can make comments about poor people that steriotype them. Just becuase you do not like the way someone eats you want to call the police on them and waiste the cops time? Child abuse? Child abuse? Come on . Rethink what your saying. Do you really believe what you are saying? Its like me saying I dont like the way a homeless person looks. We should make a new law that they cant get food or shelter if they smoke. I dont even know why I bother. No one cares about poor people in general on here. I do and would give them money , clothes,food,and any help they really needed. What if that family purchased all the junk food because they didnt have power at home. or didnt even have a home. wow they should go out and purchase stuff thats hard to make? I have been homeless before and iot wasnt my fault. If they had laws like yours we would have had to eat uncooked raw foods and risk getting sick. People shop the way they do for a reason. maybe they work alot and the kids need stuff they can eat in a hurry. things they can just eat with out cooking. Sometimes junk food is good.
FYI)))) I like what Former Grocery Clerk had to say that was responsible and didnt really steriotype people as being smelly and wearing old clothes. He made a good point. Im the person that uses the assistance very carefully. And budgets it real good. And some times I want a big fat choclate cake. The food stamps isnt to provide food for a month its only to help get thru a few weeks .
JOes comments about the cook books that was a real good idea. I agree about making people work for food. If they don’t have to many comitments like a job and kids. Like i said day care is expensive why would someone wanting help go rack up a big bill with a daycare?
Paula,
Did you ask the woman with the steak if she was on welfare? Because as has been pointed out that Qwest card may be how she receives child support. And if thats the case then she should be able to spend the money on the card how she wants.
Everyone needs to remember the old saying about what happens when you ASSUME.
Guest – Chill out. I made the comments about “Smelly Joe” as a joke. Notice the two different tones of the article – the first half is satire, the second presents my thesis. Nowhere in my thesis did I say anything to the effect that “people on food stamps are filthy poor people” – the only mention of “filthy Joe” was anecdotal and in good humor. I happen to be a huge foreigner fan and have seen Styx live. So really, chill out.
If you read the contents of the article, you’ll find that I never said that these people should not be allowed to eat junk food, my point was that it is not our job to enable them to do it. I do believe that teaching your children poor eating habits is child abuse – how could it not be? Just because the damage you’re doing to your kids isn’t visible doesn’t mean you’re not hurting them.
Your last point doesn’t make any sense to me – “junk food is good”. There is no reason to excuse the purchase of soda, ice cream, salty and sugary snacks, etc. by saying that it’s quick and easy to eat. Again, if they want to eat that way, fine – but I don’t think it’s the state’s job to pay for it. If they want a quick meal for their children, why not pick up a few boxes of SuperMac? How about canned pasta?
Your argument about them not having a home or electricity is trivial. Who is making stereotypes now? The poor sector in Idaho Falls are not on the streets or squaters – they are the workforce working minimum wage jobs. They pay too much for medical care and rent (or mortgage). This is why they are on food stamps – not because they live under the Hiway.
You seem to think I have a problem with food stamps – not the case! I think it’s a great program. However, I think it needs changes. We need to encourage healthy eating habits rather than encourage the increasingly deadly obesity epidemic in America.
Look, I used to eat crap, too. It’s sexy. It’s enticing. The food tastes good, it fills you up quickly. However, when I ate that way, I was overweight and unhappy. When I cut out fast food and junk food, I lost 40 pounds and my cholestrol dropped. So isn’t removing non-foods from food stamps just another step in solving our fat epidemic? Isn’t that a more responsible use of our tax dollars?
Excellent response, Jeremy, it was everything I was going to respond with also.
I agree with the idea that junk food shouldn’t be prohibited from welfare recipients’ lives (no “pop police” raiding their refridgerators), but why should the public pay for sugar highs?
I agree the food stamps program needs to be restricted to healthier foods. I would also make it a rule that cigarettes and beer cannot be purchased in the same shopping run! If a shopper uses a Quest card to buy groceries and immediately throws up a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes to buy with their cash, make it so cashiers must refuse the second purchase. If they want the extras they would have to physically exit the store, re-enter, and get in line again. The idea here is to make it that much more difficult to get those things that make everyone mad.
I hope the legislature makes this change in the next session.
I dont think smoking and drinking beer should exlude someone from having stamps or having to go thru the line again. Its like in our american history we used to make black people sit in the back of the bus because they had dark skin. now your saying lets put people who smoke or drink in the back of the line. lol things never change they are just substituted for some other form of opression.
The difference: People choose to smoke and drink. Vice is not a qualifier for segregation. Segregation is oppression because of race or ethnicity.
And do you really mean to compare society not accepting self-destructive activities to segregation? Are you really going to open up that can of worms? There is no comparison.
Besides, you are missing the point – we are not saying that people cannot drink or smoke any more than we are saying they cannot eat junk – we are saying that the state will not fund it.
I don’t think it has anything to do with opression. Maybe its just the way the comments have been worded. It is just very frustrating to see how much money people spend on beer and cigarettes (and lottery tickets for that matter). Yet they have to use food stamps for their food. If they are in a situation where they need to have assistance with buying food, they should be required to cut their costs where they can such as alcohol and tobacco. Those items are not necessities. The system is meant to help you get by, not make it so you can afford to buy your alcohol and tobacco products.
At least the Qwest card controls what you buy a little more than the old paper food stamps used to. People could buy a candy bar with food stamps and get change back for anything less than a dollar. Some people used to go through the lines buying one candy bar at a time until they had enough change to purchase their cigarettes or whatever. That should have never been allowed to happen. That is no different than using your food stamps to pay for it.
I think too often some people (not everyone, but some people) become used to using the assistance as a lifestyle and have no motivation to try to better themselves, or even work for what they get if they are able to. It is almost like they think they are entitled to it or something.
I guess I did miss the point here all I see from the Topic is everyone wanting to Control peoples choices they make.
While I sympathize with the idea of trying to force welfare people to stop buying cigarettes and beer, this doesn’t bother me at all in comparison to the notion that people are advocating the government step into peoples homes and try to control what they eat, drink, and do in their private time. I’d rather have people abuse the system than allow big brother to have this kind of control. Because once the government gets that power its not long before they start trying to expand it to other things.
To further expound on my thinking. Consider the following which I think is a very plausible next step if the government starts controlling what welfare recipients can eat. I’m using teachers as an example but you could easily substitute any government job that is financed through tax dollars.
Joe Smith is in the grocery line and he is seething. The local school district just passed a levy to raise taxes in order to pay for a teacher raise. But right there in front of him is his son’s teacher. And that blankity blank teacher is buying beer, Doritos, and Twinkies. The nerve of that SOB to cry for a raise and then go out and waste her money on junk food like this. If those teachers want a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste their money like this. It’s my tax dollars. Someone should pass a law saying that if these teachers get a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste it on junk food like this.
Once you open the door to government control over what people eat and drink then its not a big step to the further control of others. The remote possibility of this is much worse to me than any anger I have about the fact that every poor person I know is a chain smoker.
As to “control” and “choice”, the following argument could be made: The government does not generate a single dime in revenue. Uncle Sam takes all the money he pays out, whether it be for national defense or for welfare, from us, the taxpayers. That is one reason we have a representative form of government, to insure our voice in how our money gets spent.
If you are buying your own groceries from your own paycheck it is none of my business WHAT you put in your cart. But if I as a taxpayer am picking up the tab I have every right to care about irresponsible choices.
Raven, you have a point about the slippery slope, however I disagree because the difference is teacher’s are contributing something of equal value back to the society paying their salaries. The welfare recipient is getting money from the generosity of our society, they are not contributing back something of equal value in exchange.
Once someone has earned their money, whether privately or publicly, of course it’s nobody’s business how they spend it.
Once someone has to ask “the rest of us” to supply them with money instead of them earning it, I think “the rest of us” have a right to attach a few common-sense strings.
One of those strings is not allowing alcohol or tobacco. Disallowing junk food would merely be a scale of the same concept, not a radical departure from precedent.
like i was arguing earlier. The welfare recipients have to work if they are able. and they do not get enough assistance to buy the food for a whole month. I will not let someone tell me what to purchase. I pay taxes and get food assistance. And I dont get very much its just a small amount that helps you make ends meet a little better. They dont give flting dead beats food stamps anymore. If you can work they make you. I have 2 jobs and I pay taxes And I am not going to agree that someone has the right to tell me what foods i can get with it. I just don’t agree with anymore control. And as far as Wic is concerned I get that for my children as well and yes they make sure your getting some good foods. But if I want a candy bar and I am out of money and have food assistance I would use it. With out any guilt. BECAUSE I PAY TAXES TOO!!!
the ‘guest’ has a tough argument there, we all know working minimum wage is well below poverty and many of those people use public assistance. They are working, and not the most pleasant jobs, either.
How many welfare recipients have no job at all, or work less than 20 hours weekly?
Would it be ethical to dictate their purchases?
thank you joe for that. Now I feel better. I am by far not a dead beat. Just a single parent and going thru tough times.
I hope they never make a law that says if you have a computer you can’t get assistance.
I look at me getting food assistance and I look at it as a tax break more than anything. I still pay more out than recieved.
Trust me the system is fine. They really crack down on people and make sure they work. Even single moms with 10 kids has to work. Or she will get kicked off. Unless she is a student. Even people that come across the border to work get assistance. And they pay taxes too.
There are the people that slip thru the cracks by simply getting a job and working for a few days. then the program has to give thme the same time to find another one.
I think the biggest hill for the recipients to climb is the cost of daycare. half of my pay goes to daycare and the other half goes to simple bills and child support. Did you know the welfare system doesnt count the fact you pay child support? They count it as your income and not money going out of the house hold. What makes me mad is my other childs mother goes out and buys drugs and parties with her support check. And wont buy my child clothes at all or even toys I still have to make sure they have those things. She doesnt use the check on the kids. She always begs me to pay her rent for her on top the payment. I have no choice the kids can’t sleep in a car. And I can’t afford a lawyer to take the kids from her. She gets free legal aid. I do not. I make the same as her and have as many kids in my house as she does. I get no child support. I goto school and hold down 2 jobs. Its hard. Life is hard. I work very hard to make it. Thats why I took this whole topic as an attack on me and others going thru the same thing.
Guest, comments were never intended as personal attacks. Apologies if they came across that way. That is why I have often used the words “truly needy” in making my points. I have worked with people that I really wish the government would do more for, people like you who are working hard, being responsible and trying to make it on your own. But I think you have probably seen, perhaps even known, those who have abused the system and it is those of whom we speak.
yea but you cant punish everyone because of the mistakes others make.
FYI most people on food stamps are working or are disabled, full time student. there are very few that abuse the system. I am glad that the quest card is there because the old stamps could be sold for money and people could buy beer and cigarettes or even drugs with the money. Not anymore. There really isnt a big abuse issue anymore with the food stamp system. People only can abuse the system for a short time. They have to get a job. Unless they are a student or taking care of a newborn baby. Or disabled.
By abuse, I’m not only referring to people who refuse to work for what they get, I’m talking about the type of person who makes terrible choices with the help they are given. I totally agree with Jeremy on that – and through my work I know plenty of people in that catagory.
This discussion has really kind of proven my point – perhaps it is time to privatize the welfare system. Leave it up to the Mormon Bishop’s Storehouse and Catholic Food Banks. Leave the state out of it. The State has never been a good provider for the people – time to shoot the dead horse?
ps Guest – if you are on food stamps and also paying taxes, do you not see a kind of irony in that? Kind of like you are buying food stamps from the government? Are you sure you pay taxes, or do you get it all back on your tax return? I ask simply because it doesn’t make sense to the government to tax a citizen who is using tax-based programs in the first place.
This would be a fine idea if everyone was a member of some formal religious affiliation, but what of the agnostic, free-spirited or “heaven forbid” atheists! There are a number of our parents/grandparents and other elderly who worked their WHOLE adult lives who were cheated out of a pension or did not have a job that provided them one. They attempt to survive on a Social Security check that doesn’t cover the rent or mortgage payment, not to mention food, medicine, doctors, etc. They are forced to live off food stamps, medicaid, and state-funded or county-funded housing assistance and still don’t have enough to cover their prescriptions and don’t get enough food stamp benefits to even pay for groceries for a couple of weeks let alone a month. I agree the system needs some changes, but the food stamp program has come a long way. They used to actually issue STAMPS – paper stamps in dollar amount increments and for which actual CASH was given as change. The truly undeserving used that to their advantage to pay for drugs, smokes, beer or whatever else…the system didn’t work – there were a lot more people on it then I’m sure – then the system got tougher – they required people to PROVE their income or lack of, and if unemployed – attend job service classes that assist them in finding jobs, rent verification, etc. so they can get off food stamps eventually. Switching to a card that can only be used for food – and they do restrict it to food that isn’t heated or cooked so that there is food actually in their home – be it “junk” or actual ingredients for meals – I think more attention needs to be focused on the draw from disabled and elderly people – the reason they qualify for food stamps is because their monthly income falls well below the cutoff line – so is it time to up the benefit amount for people drawing social security benefits to help get them off the food stamp system? There are many areas of PUBLICLY funded programs that are wasting money…and you’d think with all the money we put into other country’s problems we could focus a little more funding on the screwed up health care system – I know more people WITHOUT insurance than at any other time in my life – how are we supposed to be expected to make ends meet when we can’t feed or clothe or SUSTAIN ourselves if we want to be able to see a doctor and get pills to fix what ails us…there needs to be some serious changes and the food stamp issue is just the tip of the iceberg.
Church welfare programs don’t just serve believers – in fact, most church welfare programs aim to assist non-members and, heaven forbid, Atheists!
That may be so but the LDS Church – with one of the largest and most well-funded welfare programs has been advised by their prophet to try their best to use the benefits available to only assist members of their church and not only just members but active, participating members. My point was not that the church welfare programs won’t help non-believers, my point is that they are not required to do so and if it’s left entirely in their hands there will undoubtedly be deserving people who will go without. I have nothing against religious welfare systems – but they just prove the point that the system as a whole is broken.
Agreed. Something needs to be done, but I have zero faith in the government to do it any more right than the Mormon church (or any other institution, for that matter). My point in my last post is that perhaps state-sponsored charity is an ill-advised, at best, concept that has proven to be inneffective and corrupt.
Nobody said that it should be harder to get assistance. I think we all realize that the system helps a lot of families who truly need the help.
We are just saying there needs to be a better system in place to ensure it is harder to be abused. Nobody has accused you personally of abusing the system. But you can’t deny that there are people who do in fact abuse the system.
i guess im 100% wrong. I have nothing else to say.
Where you guys should really be focusing your anger and outrage is not at food stamp abuse but rather medical abuse.
Medicaid patients rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills locally each year on frivolous ambulance rides to the hospital. A normal person who has a minor injury in need of treatment (say a small laceration which needs stitches) will take themselves or have someone take them to the hospital rather than rack up a $800 ambulance bill. Someone on medicaid calls the ambulance and gets a ride for free since the state will pick up the cost.
There are countless other examples of this kind of abuse out there. The paramedics can’t deny treatment and refuse to take someone to the hospital so that isn’t the solution.
LOL
I’m now one of the scum people your going to see in line using Qwest cards on things like beer. I just got a letter in the mail. There has been a change in my child support payments so I’ll no longer be getting them via direct deposit and instead I’ll be receiving them via a Qwest card. So when you sneer at me and make snide comments don’t be surprised if I tell you to mind your own business.
LOL Raven. Thats funny. I won’t say anything. since I do the same.
Raven and other “guests” – perhaps you should think twice before responding because, in this discussion, you are the representatives for all those who use state-run assistance programs. Boasting about using food stamps for a quick candy fix or beer runs is not helping your case. In fact, many of your responses in this discussion cause my wife to yell “Oh my GAWSH!” in disbelief.
So, to clarify, if you represent those who use these programs, I will make a statement right now: I will vote for any candidate, no matter what his or her political affiliation, who advocates disbanding the Idaho food stamps program. I know many political figures frequent this site, so let me open this up to them.
However, that’s not going to happen because of one crucial factor – the system exists to propogate the system. The more food stamps people use, the more they need them. The more abuses to the system, the more the people become accustomed to the abuses. At this point, it seems like political suicide to remove the food stamps program, because so many are dependant on them. It’s a symbiotic relationship at this point.
Now, before you lynch me, I am going to qualify my comments: I am poor. I admit it. I live well under the poverty line (about $10,000 below it) working full-time, my wife doing the same. We are about $4000 in debt because of medical bills. I attend college whenever I can afford it. I work an entry-level job that makes my back ache and doesn’t pay very well (from time to time).
So I am not some upper-crust yuppie who looks down on the poor – I am one of them. However, I make do. I don’t get cable TV because I consider that a luxery that I don’t want to waste money on. I subscribe to high-speed internet because that’s the one luxery I like to make sacrifices for. I eat well, I don’t starve, and from time to time, I enjoy a tall frosty glass of BEER.
But I pay for all of this for myself. I don’t expect anyone to take care of me, to finance my vices, to allow me to partake in luxeries. If I get laid off, I will cancel my internet and stop drinking. Or not, because I keep a savings account well-stocked for such an occasion.
So my point is this: Why can we not ween ourselves from the system, if only for our own pride? It’s possible, I have seen it happen. Sure, I don’t have kids, so maybe I don’t know the full story, but my sister does, and I have seen how easily she could make it if she just tried. How hard would it be to cancel your cable one account, to stop buying chocolate cakes once a month or so, to just go without from time to time? Eat in instead of making the Mecca to the golden arches!
It may suprise you how little it would take to take care of yourself. In America, we have a warped concept of poverty. Consider this – owning a microwave puts you in the top 5% of the world’s wealthiest.
Sometimes, a bit of perspective is all it takes.
And Raven – when you tell me to mind my own business, I will respond, “Pay for your beer in cash, then we’ll talk … because it’s my business when my tax dollars are being used to fund your wasteful spending.”
Actually, I’ll probably just take my opinion to the voting booth and let you abuse the system. It will only be a matter of time before it collapses under its own weight – things like these always do.
Jeremy,
I’ll tell you again MIND – YOUR – OWN – BUSINESS. And try reading my posts as well since its clear you didn’t read them thoroughly.
I make well above the poverty line. I don’t even come close to qualifying for welfare or food stamps. However, my deadbeat ex spouse was not paying child support so I had to go through the state to get assistance in getting wages garnished. I didn’t know where they were living and had no way of doing it myself so I filed for child support assistance with the state.
Thus my state assistance is CHILD SUPPORT. That is the point I and others have been trying to make. Its not your tax money. Its not someone elses tax money. Its money being payed to us by our ex spouse because they are a deadbeat parent. Your tax dollars never even come into play. My ex spouse pays all the states expenses in assisting me. Thus your tax dollars aren’t used. Thus I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT WITH THE MONEY WHEN I GET IT.
Someone might be tempted to say I should be spending that ten dollars I bought beer with on the kids. But at the end of the day does it matter if that ten dollars came off the Qwest card or if it came out of my direct deposit paycheck. Either way there is ten dollars going to the kids.
And in case I didn’t make it clear.
CHILD SUPPORT IS NOT YOUR TAX DOLLARS. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS HOW I SPEND IT.
Child support is a service provided by the state – which requires an infrastructure the necessary manpower to enforce the laws that govern it. Do you think the people who run the child welfare program work for free? Do you think their equipment, programs, and outsourced services are donated? My (and others) tax dollars do, in fact, pay for your child support. Perhaps not every penny, but the fact that you are getting that money is due to the fact that our elected officials are using the state’s resources to provide it to you – that makes it my business.
Also, you keep saying it’s none of my business, blah blah. You are recieving CHILD support … not VICE support. Do you really think that it’s not a big deal that you are using that money on yourself, rather than on your children? You make a point that it doesn’t matter where the money comes from, but does it really? If I give you ten dollars for groceries, and you spend it on beer, and I ask you about it and you say “Oh, well I did buy groceries, but that was money that I found lying on the street” I would be offended. Perhaps if you had used to windfall to purchase alcohol and my money for groceries, I wouldn’t be upset?
Why, though? Aren’t the ends the same? Well, it’s not about ends, it’s about my reasons for giving you the money. I’m sure your “deadbeat” ex (if he’s paying child support, does that still make him a deadbeat? Hmmm.) would not be happy to learn that you are using those funds for beer, rather that for his children.
Do you see the difference? It’s about integrity. That’s a big factor here – integrity. Doing the right thing, not the easy thing. Using the proper funds for the proper uses.
Besides that, the main topic here is about food stamps. If you’re not on food stamps, why are you do defensive? “I think thou doest protest too much!”
Jeremy, I agree that something needs to be done about the food stamp system.
However, Raven’s point was that not everybody using a Quest card is on state assistance. Several people receive their child support this way. That does not mean that the state and therefore your tax money is paying their child support. It just means that in order for them to receive their child support they are having it garnished out of their childs father’s checks. Unfortunately, this is the only way to get some guys to pay child support. If it was left up to them to cut the check, it would never happen.
You may not agree with their choice to buy beer with their child support, but that does not make it any of your business how they spend their money, anymore than it is their busisness how you spend your money.
I agree – My reply was more to the boastful manner in which she declared how she spends her child support than anything.
I’m all for “to each his own”, but at what point do we look at such an attitude and no longer just accept it? It’s the same attitude that leads people on food stamps to buy cigarettes and beer – the “it’s my money and I’ll do what I want with it” attitude. But it isn’t their money, not really. First, the food stamps are funded by our tax dollars, as I have stated numerous times. But there is also the matter of the infrastructure that is maintained and established by, again, our tax dollars. I think this fact makes it our business to know where that money goes.
Again, it is about integrity.
See, Raven told us all flat-out that she has the state take money from her ex’s paycheck, and that sometimes, she uses that money (on the Quest card) to pay for whatever she wants. Well, there is a lot of work and manpower that goes into that process of getting the money, establishing a database, maintaining records, etc. and for her to boast about using it irresponsibly is what gets me. Sometimes, it’s not all about whether two and two makes four – it’s about, again, integrity. I won’t be made to feel like my opinions don’t matter or that I am the one being judgemental, because that’s MY system she’s using, and I believe she is using it irresponsibly.
The same goes to people who use food stamps to buy poisonous food for themselves and their children – because they are using MY system, the one MY elected officials have established, it is my RIGHT, and obligation, to scrutinize how they use that system the same way it is your right to scrutinize how the Sunnyside project is being handled.
See, when you use services like food stamps or state-run child support services, you become a part of that system, and in doing so, you lose a sliver of that self-entitlement that so many people enjoy (and, yes, abuse.) So when I buy a case of beer and use the money I earned waiting tables, in many ways, it is a world away from someone using a state-run program to do so.
Again, it’s about integrity.
Just so you know, the child support collection system isn’t voluntary, it’s mandatory. So let’s not chastise women (and men as the case may be) for using their quest cards as they see fit. They aren’t given the option of whether to allow the non-custodial parent to pay them privately or through the system. Every court ordered child support payment is routed through the state run system.
It sounds as if you’re trying to legislate morality. If you don’t believe me, let me ask you this. When the person in front of you has fast food, cigarettes, lottery tickets or beer on the conveyor belt and pays in cash or by check, are you as quick to condemn their choices as you are when they pay by quest or food stamps?
Inside – I’ve state numerous times that I am a big fan of beer. Sometimes I smoke when I drink (though, not as often as I used to since I cut down). There is nothing morally wrong with drinking beer or smoking – the problem comes with priorities that conflict and remove the integrity of the system.
I never judge anyone who purchases beer or smokes – unless they do so when using state services. Doesn’t it make you wonder – they can afford booze, but not food for thier kids? How necessary is a food stamps service when they can afford booze? Where are the priorities?
Sorry if I wasn’t being clear. How can you tell they’re on food stamps rather than using child support? I believe both are on quest cards.
As they say at the end of every Southpark: i think we learned something today (well not today, but throughout this discussion).
There is no way to tell if someone is using a state quest card for their child support or for their welfare use.
And really, does it matter? Would knowing give us excuse to be rude to that person? That person may or may not need it. That person may be using their extra dough on beer and smokes that they could easily have used on food, or they could be buying beer and smokes with a few bucks they saved all week for.
If it’s any of our business that some Idaho welfare recipients might be able to abuse the system, then it’s our responsibility to take up that business at the source (the legislature) not at the end result (the purchase transaction).
It’s a hard knock life, and some people work hard to make it better, and some sit back and take what they can when they can. Not saying that if you have Quest or food stamps you don’t work hard and aren’t a good person. Myself personally, I have had to battle my own demons, mentaly and physicaly, I worked through them and I know that I feel better about overcoming my past and feel really good about being able to stand on my own two feet, keep a positive attitude and I know I will be alright. I only look to myself for help and don’t expect pity or help from anyone. I earned what I have, and I only had to try.
But, if I somehow can’t make it, and become physically or mentally disabled, I hope that you don’t look down on me for having the government help me. If it truly is needed that is great, that is what it is there for, if not, try picking yourself up. No one else can do that for you.
I just think we need to be careful AT ALL TIMES about judging people. When we look at someone in a snapshot of time, that one brief minute that we’re standing behind them in the grocery store, and we decide we don’t like what we see because that person is buying “junk food” with a quest card, do we know whether this person is on their way up or on their way down? And as Joe so aptly put it, does it really matter?
I have met people who were hard core drug using, hell’s angels, ne’er-do-well, high school drop outs, who have turned their lives around and have gotten into vo-tech training and are working at some part-time janitorial position while they better themselves and have decided to treat themselves to a frozen pizza and ice cream, paid for with food stamps. Would I feel comfortable saying they’re abusing the welfare system?
On the other hand, I’ve met the third-generation welfare brat who refuses to work, believes he/she is entitled to mooch off the rest of us while they earn cash under the table and collect every last cent of government assistance they can scrounge and are living a higher standard of living than I am!
The problem is, I can’t always tell during that three minutes in the grocery store line who is who.
I totally get the anger here folks, I’m a food stamp recipient and i understand the gripe. I live alone and I’m almost blind, I try to be so careful with my stamps buying only healthy foods, and very little junk. I hate the looks i get from people when i go to pay with my Q. card. Then you get those that BLOW their whole months alotment on things that are not healthy and are expensive, such as the junk food, candy, and pop. THEN they have the gall such as my former neibor did, to come to me for things like milk, eggs, cereal and juice, when her stamp card ran out. At first i was nice and gave her the occasional handful of eggs so she could cook supper for her 2 kids, or a quart of milk that i knew might spoil because i was going away for the weekend to help my parents with chores. But then it got unruley, were she expected the milk all the time and i was blowing my budget. Then she told her friend who also was a single mom with a kid, the chick across the hall from me she has lots extra. SO i had the 2 of them at my door on the days i’d do my grocery shopping looking for friggin hand outs. And the way they do it is so sneaky they bring in their hungery kids and her sons went thru my bags and started crying for things like cheese and cereal and juice. So to be kind i’d give them things that were healthy like i’d split an orange open and give it to the the kids, but all to soon they were at my door the next day. I know when you have 2 young kids who are always hungery the stamps never seem to go far enough, but if they budgeted and only bought what they needed then maybe the stamps would not run out so fast. Because in an effort to feed the hungery i skrewed myself in the end by blowing my stamp budget. SO now i just don’t answer my door on the days i walk with my steel cart to the local grocery because i can’t afford to be mother theressa to every hungery mouth out there when I to am poor.
Okay….it happened to me…..the lady in the c-store checkout line in front of me purchased food with food stamps and then bought $50 of lottery tickets with cash. I can’t understand how this system operates.
Imagine if government agencies that gave out entitlements like food stamps had to run fraud-reporting hotlines.
Imagine if such a hotline offered a reward in relation to the money saved by bumping a cheat?
The only reasonable defense i see for even entering this discussion, is by saying “well we pay for it through our tax dollars”. Well my question is, are you really willing to take this stance?
If you compare, your car salesman, insurance salesman, tax preparer, doctor, dentist, teacher, etc… all probably make more of their salary through you, than those people in line at the store. If we’re following this rule, then you should be able to pull up their grocery lists and examine them too. After all, if they didn’t need so much money, all your rates and taxes would be even less than if you ‘reformed’ things your way!
If your really interested in stopping people from wasting money on food, this is a silly way to go about it. Most people shop this way, no matter how they get their income, and those incomes come from us in one way or another.
If you really want to reform something, reform the way that junk food and cigs are allowed to make their way into everyday american life, lets not just pick the easy targets here.
wod, I think the crux of it is that all those people would have earned their money through their own hard work of giving service.
The people with the food stamps did not earn that money. They got it by the public charity of society.
I agree with Joe good point bad analogy on Wod’s part.
I love looking at this from one econoimist’s point of view. He equates money as good service/satisfaction vouchers. The money we get in the form of paychecks mean that we are providing a service that satisfies the person paying us. If we do provide a good service then we do not receive very many good service vouchers (money). In it’s simplest form if you are a cobbler and you do a great job repairing someones boots or shoes they you are rewarded with a service voucher.
This is universal world wide whether in a barter situation and exchange of service situation or the transfering of service vouchers (money). The breakdown in Wod’s analogy and the thinking of those seeking an expansion of public sector outputs is that the persons receiving said outputs do not have to provide any type of service or satisfy anyone to receive the same vouchers that you and I have to do when we work hard to compete against others seeking service vouchers. The person that please’s the most gets the most vouchers, those that do not get less and less and are forced to find new ways to please or serve their fellowman to get vouchers.
This is as simple as it gets.
This system is efficient until government intervenes and adds a new dimension to and decreases the satisfaction efficiencies that occur naturally in the marketplace.
This is why communism fails, this is why socialism is not efficient and why socialistic economies can’t compete with capitalistic economies.
Comes down to serving your fellow man and making them happy with the job you provide, and you have your voucher that tells the rest of the world that “I have done something well enough that my fellow men have rewarded me with my service vouchers”. This leads to pride and the desire to get more vouchers to provide better service that improves the community as a whole.
People who by pass this system do nothing to get their vouchers, have no pride because they are getting service vouchers for not providing a service, and produce nothing that benefits the community as a whole.
To the person(s) who commented that those on welfare don’t know how to manage their money, a big [Deleted by Moderator] is in store.
I’ve never been on welfare, but I’ve gotten the royal [Same here] after divorcing my cheating [And AGAIN!] of an ex wife. The state of Illinois has been notorious for the poor treatment of fathers rights. My ex wife was divorced after learning of her cheating and new drug addiction. She popped out a drug baby that (luckily) wasn’t mine) after I filed, but before the legal completion of the divorce, thanks to a 1.5 year [Oh, my.] court case. Despite the bankbook raping as ordered by the courts, I’ve been turned down for any welfare because I make “too much money”. Did I mention that the courts proactivly addressed “If I quit my job to escape payment”?
I got stuck paying 20% of my income in addition to court mandated posession of insurance coverage which requires the coverage of medical, vision, dental, and prescription. After the insurance cost, I got stuck with 50% of the out of pocket / billing medical and prescription fees and 50% school and clothing fees.
Trust me, not knowing how to manage money doesn’t cause the problem in every case. 20% of my income is child support. Of the remaining 80%, nearly 90% of that is the other insurance / school / etc fees. I don’t even get a choice as to which schools my child goes to. Nice benefits for Illinois “Joint Custody” huh? Less than 10% of my 60 hour work week is left to go towards food, rent, my own medical, etc.
I’m 2 jobs full time and still struggle to maintain my [Durka] slumlord roof over my head.
Educate yourself of visit with Darwin. Maybe then the world will get a bit better.
Welfare Flop: Your comment has been edited to conform to site standards, set and maintained by the site members. You make a decent point (I think) but perhaps you should choose your words more carefully in order to make your point more clearly.
I am a single mom and it was not my choice to make to become one. My ex left me with the little kids to move on to greener pastures. I work a full time job 40+ a week and pull in a bit extra on the weekends but I still have to get help from the state. I don’t like the fact that I have to rely on the state to feed my kids every month but without food stamps my kids would starve. Now I have read all of the comments on here and I can honestly say that many of you are not as informed on public assistence as you think. Yes there are dead beats out there who “live” off the state but for the most part the help goes to the elderly and children. Jeremy since you don’t have kids you really have know idea what it is like for some of us who bust our butts to pay bills every month but still have to have the help. Before I joined to world of single parenting my ex and I both worked good jobs with good pay and no assistence from the state was needed to raise my family. Now he is off living the high life and I am stuck wondering if I am even going to make enough for rent this month let alone how am I going to get new shoes for the kids. I don’t waste my food stamps buying “junk” as you call it but if after a 40 hour week and little sleep because of sick kids I want to enjoy a bag of doritos or a candy bar then I don’t think you really have the right to judge me. You don’t walk in these peoples shoes and don’t kow what their lives are like. Yes I could forgo cable or the chocolate cake once a month but let me ask you this, if you had to take away everything in your life that could be counted as a luxury and had to live that way everyday to make ends meet how do you think your outlook on life would be? Not very cheerful. Even “poor welfare people” need to have luxuries too or what you will be paying for with your tax moneys will be their time spent in the state mental health hospital because they went insane and killed everyone around them!If the time comes you ever have to stand on the other side of the Qwest card I hope you post your opinions on state assistence then.
So I’m paying for you to have luxuries so you don’t go crazy? You’re going to have to do better than that.
Poverty in America isn’t actually poverty at all – it’s lack of exorbitant things and fancy foods. Poverty in America is not having the best cable package, having a $100,000 home instead of a $150,000 one. I understand that being a single mother is hard – I have a sister-in-law who’s in a similar situation. But what you’re talking about simply isn’t poverty – it’s a reality for many people which I sympathize with but am unwilling to be forced to accommodate.
And you’re right, I don’t have kids. I’ve been married for 3 years and have lived in some really disgusting apartments. However, I never expected anyone to take care of my, especially strangers – I put up with the awful telemarketing jobs, lived next to drug dealers, and was in fear of my life on more than one occasion because of the places I called home. However, I stuck in the game, worked my butt off, and with the help of my incredibly hard-working wife, pulled myself completely out of debt, bought a home, and live really well on less than (get this) $25,000 a year combined income.
So really, I do sympathize with divorce. I suffered my parents divorcing when I was very young, and it hurt. But that doesn’t mean you’re entitled – it means you’re living life and experiencing hardship like the rest of us. As the Buddha said, “Life is suffering”, but you shouldn’t expect the Mommy State to coddle you when things get hard.
But then again, that’s just me.
Jeremy come walk a few days in my shoes with 5 kids and one income and bills every month that exceed more than I make and none of them are a “luxury” and then you tell me if you think you could make it without some state assistence. Doctor bills, food, school, clothing, gas, times 5. 6 including me. Think you could do it and have the same opinion? I would like to see you try. As I said before don’t judge until you have been there.
Jeremy I agree for $25,000 you can live comfortably each month. However what happens when that income is cut in half and then there are two extra mouths to feed? That takes your income down to $12,500 a month and at least double your food bill (have you ever priced baby formula?).
For the vast majority of us that have been in the Welfare system it SUCKS! It is embarrassing and you feel that you have done something wrong as a person or as a parent because you are unable to pay for food to feed your child.
I didn’t have cable TV for 7 years after moving out of my parents home. For that matter I didn’t even have a phone for about a year (that was really difficult when I went into labor and again when my ex abused me). If I wanted to buy a candy bar well then I guess that just makes me a horrible person for taking out that $1.00 to pay for it instead of buying another apple.
There are always going to be people that are going to take advantage of the system (any system) but for a lot of us there just wasn’t any choice but we did what we could and got back on our feet and it didn’t take someone standing in a grocery line behind me rolling his eyes because I bought a bag of chips instead of a banana.
So are you changing your story now? In your original post, you stated that a small amount of my taxes is going to food stamps so you can afford luxury items and not “go crazy” and kill everyone around you. Now you talk as if food stamps is the only way you can afford the basic necessities of life.
I took issue with your original assertion, and now you’re changing your claim. So which is your argument?
I can understand paying alms for you to be able to feed your children – I will do it gladly with a smile on my face. I will not, however, be forced to pay for luxury items like you originally stated.
I wasn’t talking about me in particular with luxuries but you have seemed to classify all eople on state help as those who don’t need to be in the system. I know people personally who take advantage and they piss me off because it does make it seem like we all do it. I could argue this point with you forever and my opinion on it will not change. I don’t think a person who has never had to be in a position to need state help should offer up their opinions onhow other people should use or not use it. I don’t live in a big fancy house I pay high rent for a crappy house in one of the less desirable neighborhoods in town. I don’t drive a newer vehicle so I baby the one I have and hope it will make it yet another year. I don’t work a job where insuranc is an option and yes I could go out and find another job that has benefits but will it give me the fexability that my present job does to take an extra 1/2 lunch to do parent teacher conference or kids doctor appointments?Probably not so woould it be worth changing jobs I don’t think so. Yes I could go back to school and get a degree to find that higher paying job but then I would be asking for more help from the state which doesn’t help either does it? The only luxury my kids get is knowing that I love them and that if I could I would buy them the game system they want or take them to the movie they all want to see but they know we can’t and they deal with it the best they can. I am glad that you got yourself out of debt and bought a house and can live on 25,000 a year but there are two of you verses the single parents on welfare who live with 3 or 4 or more mouths to feed and cloth on about half of what you have. I think you should call the local welfare office and ask them about their system and where the money comes from and how much of it is your tax dollars being used to help those less fortunate than you.
Jeremy – do you have no compassion? Does your 25000$ include tips or gifted monies?hard work? ” is a virtue”
Like I said I have all kinds of compassion for divorce – but taxation is simply not the answer. Never was, never will be. And yes, my entire livelihood is made from tips – which I earn through going to work, serving people well, and earning my money. Every penny of it. I have never once asked for a hand-out and hope to God I’m never in a situation that I need to – that is, really need to, not do it because it’s there and I take advantage of it.
Oh, and tips and gifted moneys are reported differently – all of my tips are reported on my taxes as income and I’m taxed accordingly.
And since when did I show any lack of compassion? Firstly, not wanting to pay for others’ luxury isn’t dis compassionate – it’s American. It’s capitalist. It’s humanist. Most of all, it’s rational. If I find a charity that I believe will really help people and it’s a cause I really believe in, I’ll help out – but a blanket-solution backed by bureaucrats that is taken advantage of on a daily basis is not one of those things.
Passingthrough summed it up better than I ever could:
“Even “poor welfare people†need to have luxuries too or what you will be paying for with your tax moneys will be their time spent in the state mental health hospital because they went insane and killed everyone around them!If the time comes you ever have to stand on the other side of the Qwest card I hope you post your opinions on state assistence then.”
I rest my case.
Oh, and bravo on the lack of sensitivity. Right after a mass shooting. Nice touch.
So, if Passinthrough has 5 kids she should be collecting some child support from this ‘dude’ who according to her post made good money before the divorce, right?
The State can’t absorb every darn cost here. I don’t want kids starving or wearing rags. Too many people pull that kind of picture out justifying giving large ever increasing spending to Welfare Programs. We have finite resources. We have to draw the line somewhere.
This is a small example but an instructive one. I was down at the Idaho Falls State Office Building getting some records from Mental Health…while this is not strictly welfare it is our tax dollars at work….this counselor runs after her client telling him that he forgot to apply for his smoking money…$15 bucks a week. She has him sign a form and tells him to come back in 2 days to get his cash! He signs the form and walks out. What a load of baloney. I love our state servants dolling out cash. I would rather give that $15 to passingthrough than this lowlife that is not doing anything other than subsisting. I would prefer to support passinthrough who is at least trying to raise some children with talents, promise, and potential that can benefit society rather than take from it. Bottomline: award state employees for NOT handing out money willy nilly…decrease funding for perks given to people that are just sitting on their butts and funnel more funds to people who are genuinely struggling and trying to be legit! I’m sure somebody will complain…chances are though they will be too lazy to get off the couch to protest let alone get a job.
I’m forty two, have no kids, and here’s what I think.
I think in our world we CANNOT afford to placate to the “least common denominator”. Meaning – YES there are people who abuse the system – and YES there are those who really need some help.
I’m for erring on the side of those who really need the help. I don’t want to think “Well, X and Y and Z people abuse the system, so let’s make it hard for the rest of the alphabet”. It reminds me of “Homeland Security” – because there might be ONE “potential terrorist” in a town of fifty thousand, let’s round up all Middle Eastern looking people. RIDICULOUS!
To me – this is the same sort of thing. In a perfect world, there wouldn’t be single parents trying to carry the load with four kids – but there ARE such families (I’ve known my fair share) and I would MUCH rather my tax dollars go to them then to – oh – I duno – a WAR I find useless.
When we first moved here both of us lost our jobs within the first six months and had NO resources to find new (we were recent arrivals). We got energy assistance through one winter – no food stamps, no anything else, but we DID get five hundred dollars worth of heat bill paid – and let me tell you I felt VERY guilty about it @ first. Like something was “wrong” with me (as another person mentioned). Be that as it may – when you’re not working and it’s twenty below zero, things can get scary. The only thing “wrong” was the timing for getting work – once spring arrived we both got jobs and things improved.
It’s been thirteen years since then, I have a decent job, my partner has a decent job, and we bring home a decent amount of money (not a LOT – but that’s largely by choice – we both refuse corporate jobs that pay well and choose independent-thinking small businesses that pay less but offer more fulfilling job experiences).
When we NEEDED help it was good to have it. Should it not have been there for us because others “abused” it? I’m glad that wasn’t the case.
A few years ago we took in two of our SIL’s kids for a year – and our income went from “okay” to “barely scraping by”. It DOES cost a lot to raise kids – and when you’re stressing over how much money worth of tp you’re going to need for the next week – you know it’s true that kids are costly to keep around. That doesn’t include computer stuff, shoes, and yes – when we had kids around we DID have cable tv (not now though – I’m stictly a satellite radio person).
My point – I know people abuse the system. I also know the system is designed to HELP people who need it. I prefer to focus my thoughts on that aspect.
While I appreciate the fact that some people are truly needy and need help, it’s hard to believe everything that passingthrough has stated. For one thing, since her ex is “off living the high life” did anyone ever see about getting some child support from him? And paying for some (or all) of the medical bills? Any court in the country will award child support, all you have to do is ask.
As far as having 5 children and having that multiply all of your costs accordingly, that doesn’t wash either. As a person who in single with no dependents or self-employment, I pay a lot of income tax every year. A LOT! Since you are not getting any child support I assume you are claiming 6 tax exemptions. You can enjoy a pretty good income without paying any tax with that many exemptions. Probably even get a bigger refund than what was withheld to begin with.
I’m sincerely sorry if your ex is a deadbeat and not paying his share. But I would rather have you do something about fixing that than complain about how unfair everything is and expect strangers to support your family.
taxpayer I think you might be out of bounds with your remarks. How do you propose making a dead beat parent pay child support?
I have two court orders (one for each of my children) for child support and I very rarely see a child support payment. There are plenty of deadbeat parents that work under the table, switch jobs as soon as their wages begin to be garnished or the state simply can’t find them. How do you get the money from them then? My siter and I have both been in this area where we didn’t even know what State the ex was in.
In Idaho the parent receiving child is basically in charge of tracking down the missing parent. My ex has another ex with two kids by him and while I sometimes get child support she receives none because the State of Idaho “can’t find him” even though they know where he is on my case and have collected. Every once in awhile I get a letter saying that I need to give the State all of my ex’s current information and if I don’t comply that I can be fined. That’s great… assuming I even know what state he is in.
Additionally my ex is required by court order to carry health insurance for the kids but that has NEVER happened.
A note about Medicaid, while my children were on Medicaid if they visited the doctor then the ex was actually charged for the visit. When you go back through my child support records you can see where some of the payments received by the State for child support payments actually went to pay back the State/Medicaid so it isn’t all coming out of your pocket contrary to popular belief.
I really don’t think my remarks are out of bounds. That’s how I feel. I know that back when I paid child support the Child Support Enforcement Bureau was right on top of it if I ever got behind. Has it changed now? I understand that they will revoke drivers and other licenses, garnish wages, seize bank accounts, notify employers or whatever they have to do.
passingthrough stated that her ex was living the high life. I might have been wrong, but I took that to mean that he was not moving and changing jobs every few weeks to hide under the child support radar. Maybe passingthrough is the one with the answers to these questions.
I’m sorry if I sounded cold or unfeeling. If somebody really needs help I would be one of the first to offer. But sometimes it seems like a lot of people think they are somehow entitled to be given something that they could get themselves with a little work. If that’s not the case here, I apologize.
Failing to pay child support for more than 90 days and/or I believe $2000 can trigger administrative license suspension. Even if the dufus is in another State, under interstate compact laws, if one state suspends other states honor the suspension too….this is the long arm of the law. The state can also go after the dead beats federal and state tax returns.
It also becomes a felony to non-support a child after certain time frames. True, the parent has to park on the prosecutor’s door step to get this going…but I have seen it done in Bingham and Bonneville Counties! This really seems to get the dead beats attention!
welfareflop has a good point. The system treats men badly. 10% left over? How did you get lucky. I know guys that get less than that to live off of. One of them is dead for killing the ex,kids and himself. I really think its sad.
I can top this. I have the kids and I still have to pay my drug addicted welfare recipient kids mommies child support and raise the kids.
They bring the kids to me 90% of the time. Because they are to strung out to clean or feed the kids and work. So I have to take the entire bill because the state gives moms free lawyers and makes us men pay for one.
It is almost impossible for a man to take a child from a woman unless she goes to prison.
My son slept in a car for 3 months because his mommy didnt want to loose her food stamps and just let me have him.
The courts are messed up and so is welfare. Ban welfare and make the persons family buy them food and clothes and pay some of the rent.
If the family doesnt help to bad they can just make a card board house and give the kids to the working parent.
I think there needs to be a new custody law. Give the kids to the parent who makes the most money. Then tax payers wont have to pay for the poor broke lazy parent to take the well off parents income. Let that working parent have the kids.
I am making a good point here.
1. Such a law would stop dads from killing the woman and kids then them selves.
2. less tax payers money goes to dead beat lazy parents that wont work.
3. the kids grow up to be good law biding citizens and learn good working morals.
4. By the way I work for Idaho dept of commerce and labor. Work first progam is a hit. We put the lazy parents with all of the poor me excuses to work.
There is a loop hole unfortunatly they can just give birth to another kid and not have to get a job for another 6 years. I think we need some new laws to make them work after 6 mo giving birth.
The sad part about the child support laws is the other parent really can’t support them selves or hold a job or car easily. We should be helping those parents.
The strict laws hurt people bad. Look at the rate triple suicides have gone way up. these poor folks are very angry and have some serious mental anger and feel there is no hope out there for them.
I knew this guy that had a real good job made like 30,000.00 a year at a government job. His wife cheated on him and before you knew it they ended up in devorce court. He had to pay over 20,000.00 in legal fees hers and his. then he had to pay 1,500.00 a mo in child support and over 800.00 in medical insurance. and 1000 ’s in dental and perscriptions, counseling for the kids etc. He made less than 12,000.00 a year after they raped him of his earnings. He lost his new truck his house, then his kids when he missed an court date because his wife filed in another state and he wasnt served. So after he hit rock bottom and lost his job due to his finances crashing, you can’t get a clearance if you have bad credit.
He decided to kill his ex wife then the 3 kids and his self. It is so sad that it came to that. And I truly believe this could happen to any saine person.
Write your governor and congressman to change the laws and make them fair. We can’t do everything for you folks.
3. the kids grow up to be good law biding citizens and learn good working morals.
I fail to see a connection between growing up with money being a moral, law-abiding citizen. Just because the crimes are white-collar in nature doesn’t make them less immoral.
if the child grows up with a working parent that doesnt use the welfare system. the child will do the same when they grow up.
Or you can just let it stay the way it is now. Lazy welfare parents that wont work raising more lazy non working future parents. Time to break the chain. I think letting the parent with the most money that has a job keep the kids would have a large impact on the welfare system. It would definatly reduce atleast 70% of the burden.
I think I have a real good argument here.
What if the parent who has a job and the most money doesn’t want custody? Or what if they have other character flaws that will affect their parenting? It sounds like a good point until you think about it. And it puts out the wrong message, that the one with the most money wins.
So just because a parent makes more money, that actually makes them more qualified to take care of the children how? Yes ok they might have more money for food and stuff but does that necessarily mean that they are a good parent? I’m sorry but just because someone makes more money does NOT make them a better parent. My father made way more money then my mother, however, he was FAR from being a good parent (when I was in junior high he was trying to get me to drink with him and some other people just so they would have enough people to play some drinking game.).
Oh and BTW while I was on welfare for awhile, NEITHER of my parents every where so please tell me how it is that some of us are in a “cycle”?
oh so that justifies us tax payers to pay for the lazy parent that wont go earn a living? I think not. I wish I was the law maker I would make everyone get a job and not give them free anything. Make them earn what they get. Its about letting the children be with the parent that can support them with out us tax payers doing it. I am sick of seeing all the lazy parents living it up with all the free food and cash with out any reason to get off the support. I think people should stop being losers and get jobs to support thier family I don’t think we should all have to support anyone else period.
well you said the magic word I wanted to hear it was for a while not for ever. I am against us supporting people forever. more than 6 mo.
While I don’t disagree with much of what the above last few repliers have suggested, here’s some food for thought.
I’m not a single mom but I AM a woman. Let me tell you male people something you may not be willing to recognize.
Many women DO NOT get paid what they are wroth. Period.
If a woman works for the state or federal goveyment then I believe this doesn’t necessarily apply. BUT for those of us who work normal jobs – we are often pretty well screwed out of what we’re worth – and it’s NOT that easy to find a job that will pay us what we are worth.
I happen to be a luckier one – I do not work for the state but I DO work for an individual who pays me pretty close to what I know I’m worth. I’ve FOUGHT for that pay and that job. Not everybody is as “female doglike” as I am. The previous four jobs I had in Idaho (since moving here thirteen years ago) were RIDICULOUSLY insultingly underpaying – and when I asked one of my previous co-workers why she put up with this her response was “They figure your husband makes the real money”.
AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!
This was a college educated human being.
I pay for my own stuff – including my own health insurance. But – I’m NOT a single mom trying to make it on 78% of what the men around me make.
I know to some this will probably just infuriate the sense of how women just use the system – but I’ll tell it to you from MY point of view.
I don’t use the system, never HAVE in my entire life other than when my partner and I first moved here and got a heat bill paid (and my partner is a male – so he used the system for heat just as much as I did).
I’ve never been on food stamps, I’ve never been on state health aid, I’ve never been on ANY kind of long term help.
I don’t use the system, just like the guys I’ve worked with through the previous decade didn’t.
And I easily made 70% of what THEY made for doing the EXACT same job.
So – really – I think there is something to the fact that not everybody CAN make enough to get by.
There’s this concept called the “glass ceiling” and I do believe if you’re not female, racially not white, or some other minority – you might not really get knocked on the head by it too often, so you might be lucky enough to forget it exists.
This is a fact as I have lived it. The glass ceiling DOES exist, and the stunted ability for women to make as much as men DOES DOES DOES exist.
Take your current lifestyle, cut roughly one quarter of your monthly income from that – and THAT is where the woman “next door” (figuratively) probably is.
Like it or not.
And no sir, I do not like it.
I have heard it spoken more than once that teachers should get paid less, since most teachers are women and their husbands are the ones who win the bread in the family.
It boggled my mind in so many ways.
Teachers should get paid LESS?????????????
No way! How about – career politicians should get paid less!
Now that’s a “less pay” idea I could be proud to vote for!
It’s sad but true that women still, to this day and in this country, are often treated as if our jobs don’t matter as much as mens jobs. We are subtly and not so subtly put down as being “less” worthy. Especially with regards to TEACHERS – the people who are instilling education and enlightenment in our very own children!
Egads.
Women often do not get reasonable respect in MANY forms (I’m one who is over forty I KNOW how bad it can be – hopefully younger women are increasingly having a better time of it).
Part TWO of that though is – women are afraid of being “female dogs” and “nags”. Many men (and some women) continually put women down for these traits – belittle them, make fun of them, disregard women if they express these traits – so to top it off – many women stay STUCK with lower paying jobs because they are literally afraid to come off as “famale dogs”. I am not one of those who is afraid – and let me tell you – it is difficult. I have put up with a lot of verbal abuse (name calling) over the years simply for standing up for myself.
We are not only stuck because there is a glass ceiling, we are stuck because many of us dare not be “uppity” – I KNOW for a fact that some of the women I’ve nown over the years are scared to behave as I do – afraid their families will be angry, they will upset their community standards, they will not be keeping their place as “good” women.
THIS is one of the reasons why women end up on welfare. It’s not always because they want to screw the ex out of his money or because they want to sit on thier rears eating bon-bons and being lazy. Often it IS very true that the woman really does not find a job that pays well enough to keep up wtih the lifestyle she had when she was married.
THAT – I believe – is why some women say comments like “my ex lives the high life while I suffer”. It is NOT so much that he is living a bling-i-riffic life, it is that HIS standard of living has not decreased when the divorce happened – and hers has.
I do recognize that there are men who have been royally taken to the cleaners by divorce lawyers – but I am pretty confident that there are more women who have found themselves lowering their standard of living and trying to get by on less than what they deseerve.
Like I said – I am NOT a single mom and I am NOT in this situation. I am simple a single woman and my earning potential is much more precarious than the earning potential of my partner – even though I have a degree and he does not.
I think we are not that atypical.
I think that there should be a law for working parents that seperate. The kids go with the parent with the better job and finances. If that parent should want the children.
simply put so the tax payers do not have to support the lower income based parent and the kids. And so the hard working or better off parent doesnt have to support the other parent.
Lets be real here. You all know child support doesnt get used on the kids in most cases its just another way for someone to leech off someone else. We need to get rid of child support and let the parents work it out and have laws that really look at the tax payers welfare and the childrens welfare.
I just don’t see the reasoning behind letting a poor parent that can’t support the kids alone have the kids. I think if the parent who can support the kids wants them the law should make it easy for them to get the kids.
It would fix the system real fast. And the judge can even make the recieving parent take parenting classes if needed.
I should have both of my kids.
Here are the reasons I should have the kids versus the mom having them
1. I have a good income
2. I own a house
3. My wife is a counselour
4. I have taken parenting classes
5. My house is large and is clean
6. I have educational toys for the kids
KIDS MOM
1.filthy house never clean
2.she wont work
3.she needs welfare real poor makes less than 200.00 a mo
4.she wont feed the kids good food
5.she sleeps all day
6. she wont do the kids laundry
7. her BF is a druggie
8.she had another baby 6 mo ago so she didnt have to work.
9 she uses children for meal ticket
10. she waste oxygen by breathing.
I can’t get the kids because I can’t afford $50,000.00 for a lawyer. I already spent over 20,000.00 and got no where.
My children want to live with me. The want clean clothes. They want healthy food. The want nice things. They want love attention and someone who listens to them. And most important . My children want structure and security and want to look clean and live in a home that doesnt smell like rotten diapers and moldy food.
Children deserve better. Poverty stinks. I can give them everything they need. So why should you all have to pay for it? And why should I have to give my money to her to pay for it.? Why can’t the law just give me my children and let me do it my self?
guest 555 i would recommend the following to you. Document, document, document. Every phone call, every visit, every time you pick them up, drop them off. Are the kids dirty or clean, wearing the same clothing, eating chips, fast food, or other junk food. Diapers not changed? EVERYTHING. Then, start calling CPS, everytime. Often. Then, suck it up, find a lawyer, and start shelling out. Sell your boat, your four-wheelers, your whatever you have to. Be patient, be persistent, be proactive. Remind your kids to tell the CPS person everything, complain about their conditions, the bf, everything.
Have hope, I now have full custody of my kids that used to be in a similar situation. It took a long time, and I’ll be paying the lawyer until I die. But, I have my kids. The good part is that now the kids visit their mother, and she is actually trying to improve.
Good advice about being proactive instead of reactive.
You can complain until the cows come home, but it takes resolve and actually doing what’s necessary.
Great advice, Rich.
Most parents are made non-custodial parents because it makes profits for the states and court systems.
We have done everything in our power to get this child out of that horific place. I wish a lawyer would call us and look at the case and just help us do it. If anyone saw what is happening to my Son I think they would do it for free.
guest555,
Don’t start with giving more $ to the attorney. They deal in evidence. Get the evidence first, as Ronin Rich, suggested. Only then go to the attorney. I would think video tape and photos taken by a private detective. This will make the attorney’s job easier–read: save you thousands in attorney fees that would be generated from the lawyer trying to build a case from documents.
Angela Pedersen, R.N. Says:
April 28th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Most parents are made non-custodial parents because it makes profits for the states and court systems.
Nurse Pedersen, You may have had many more experience in this area than I. So I’m wondering if you can give me the documentation for the reference you are making?
It use to be $ wasn’t a factor in placing children, except paying qualified providers to care for them.
I’m not sure I understand this apparent change in thinking, per your statement. Please post some more so I can learn more. I look forward to getting updated of why $ from and/or to the parents is the goal of court (meaning the court system somehow makes money, based on whether or not the parent is awarded custody).
If you are talking about assigning custody (after a divorce), can you reference the ID laws (or even trends by watch dog groups) to show us more evidence of what judges, which jurisdictions etc. Not sure what to do with your statement to I know more.
I’m not quite sure if your comment was made as a nurse with specific knowledge working with children, and you read some specific mailings from the state I didn’t, or if your comment was made from your personal life. Either way, it’s good to have your input. I just want the reference so I can check it out for myself.
GYSPY——
COULDN’T AGREE MORE! YES, THERE ARE GLASS CEILINGS FOR WOMEN!!!!!!
Maybe a better question is, besides being a surrogate mother, are there any positions where women are consistantly paid more than men?
Funny, that non-custodial parent remark(post# 112) intruiges me. Some years ago in my divorce I was awarded joint custody of my kids. In our case, that meant an exact split. I always thought that that’s what joint custody meant. My ex lived nearby, so it was no problem for us to swap them off for two weeks at a time. I paid her child support based on the difference of our income. After a two years, she got a better job. The state sent me a letter letting me know that I could request a review of my child support order. I did, and it resulted in my support being lowered by a substantial amount.
Throughout my experiences with the state child support services, it was painfully apparent that the whole system was biased against the men. Every time I tried to get answers to my questions, or get anything changed with my case, I was delayed, stonewalled, referred to someone else, and sometimes met with mild hostility from the women who work there. Granted, most of their cases involve collecting $$ from deadbeat men for women that need it. I felt that even upstanding guys that care for their kids & pay their way get the short end of the stick when dealing with state agencies.
Back to the point, even though my divorce decree said “joint custody”, in all correspondence from the state, my ex was always referred to as the “custodial parent”. I’ve always been suspicious of what that meant as far as the state considers it. Maybe someone could enlighten us as to exactly what the custodial parent is in the eyes of the state.
Parents are almost without exception granted “joint custody” unless one parent is proved unfit or agrees to “sole custody”. “Primary physical custody” is the parent who has the child more than 50% of the time or in cases where the child splits time evenly between both parents, is the parent whose address is considered the child’s legal address.
I think sometimes people get frustrated with Child Support Services because they want more help from them than they can lawfully give. In most decrees with child custody/support issues, there are several different issues regarding finances. 1) Child support 2) day care 3) medical expenses, and so on. Child support services can only help collect child support. They cannot help collect money owed for day care, medical, etc. Given the cost for these two items these days, that can be a sizeable sum of money that CSS cannot help you get, you have to go to court for a judgment.
Where they can help is establishing paternity, suing the non-custodial parent at their expense for child support, garnishing wages for child support, seizing tax returns for child support and so on.
Like most goverment agencies, they are beauracratic to the extreme. It can be difficult to get someone on the phone and then the answers aren’t always the same. They don’t always have their facts correct, but in many instances, they are trying to help.
And one of the favorite sources of an argument is withholding child support for visitation and vice versa. That’s apples and oranges! Regardless of what’s happening with one, the other can’t be withheld. And CSS can’t help there either.
There’s no perfect solution. Not every non-custodial parent is a deadbeat dad but they can be treated that way if the payments get behind. I think the core of this problem is the parents forget it’s about the child, not about their failed relationship and their animosity and venom spill over onto the kids.
From personal experience, a word of advice. Don’t ever pay child support in person. Route it through CSS, no matter what. If you have a good relationship with the other parent, great. If you can work out a missed payment, great. But keep CSS in the loop. They don’t have the authority to recognize payments given over personally. Custodial parents can sign waivers for any amount they choose so if you have an agreement to skip a payment, get it in writing!!
Enough said, this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. Just try to remember it’s about the child, whom supposedly you love more than life itself and at one time, you cared enough about the other person to create a life with them. Kids have enough trouble being from broken homes without the parents being difficult with one another.
Well said IO.
As the wife of a non-custodial parent who faithfully pays everything he is required, I agree.
all I see from the Topic is everyone wanting to Control other peoples choices they make. you say if you don’t have the money you don’t get things but what about when you do have the money? you enjoy a little extra don’t you. how many of you don’t have a bag of chips or candy in your home? to much of any thing is no good, however i do believe the state should but limits on how much of certain things one can get.
I read a hilarious opinion piece in today’s PR, regarding welfare. Kristen Gazaway noted that Congress passed strict welfare reform controls in 1996, capping lifetime welfare benefits to five years in cash aid, and forcing recipients to meet strict work requirements.
She said that almost 12 years later, we still have abuse of our American welfare system, and created a mock letter to Pakistan President Musharraf, admonishing him for receiving $100 million EVERY MONTH in American welfare aid, despite his abuses.
I think she had a great point. We made such a big deal of making our poorest citizens (heck and even non-citizens) earn their measly few welfare bucks, while every month we export more welfare dollars to one country for one dictator to enjoy than all of our country’s citizens receive.
That is messed up, thanks to Gazaway for pointing that out. Not that there’s much we can do to stop it, is there?
i would have a better chance of getting off food stamps if the mexicans wouldn’t take the jobs! They get paid higher wages b/c they speak spanish and yet still get food stamps b/c they are mexican. I am the minority in my own country and am getting sick of it.
With all due respect Chris, it seems that the argument about food stamps should not be focused on any one segment of the population—especially skin color….how about we look at their contributions….or lack thereof? I know there are alot of people that feel very similarly; however, if we are to make a dent here it needs to be based on facts and figures….not skin color.
Excellent point Mike. That was a pretty racial & idiotic comment that was made. Especially when there are numerous other nationalities on food stamps and/or welfare.
If you want to make more money, learn Spanish. Most companies do pay more for bi-lingual workers because its an asset to their company.
Wow!!!! I can’t believe Chris was allowed to make racist statments on this site. I guess that says it all that explains it. I hate to burst your bubble there mr klueless klan kid. This country was founded by imagrating people from all over this world. And the sad part is the Indians complained about the imagration problem back when white man first showed up. The problem with our society is they are racist judgmental bible reading jerks with out a mirror. I think blaming everything on the Mexicans is lame and really sad. I think they deserve more pay for knowing a second language. They deserve it for being educated. You know what Chris you are a waste of my time. You will never get it
Was it really a racist comment though? He obviously blames an entire race for his inability to get a job. We all know that blame is ridiculous, especially in the Idaho Falls area which leads the nation in lowest unemployment. His comment does not appear to be quite racist to me though.
Joe, I think his comment was racist. He assumes they have all the jobs and that they all get FS even though they work, because they’re Mexican. He complains about being a minority in his own country.
The definition and therefore test of a racist comment has been met.
I am curious…Chris says he is not employed and is on Food Stamps, which means he is likely one of those required to participate in their work program through the local Job Service. Job Service staff are experts at helping one get a job, if one truly wants to be employed, even in this are where the available jobs are more scarce. So how long has he been unemployed, with this service available to get him back in a job?
He mentions that the bilinguals get higher pay but it seems strange that if they have that higher pay, they could also qualify for Food Stamps, so I’m thinking if he sees so many on assistance it’s because they are working for crap wages and therefore still qualify. I worked full time for little more than minimum wage about 20 years ago and still qualified for Food Stamps.
As was already pointed out, the Native Americans had immigration complaint issues hundreds of years ago but our immigrant ancestors just kept coming (legally and illegally) and took over this country anyway. It’s a country built on immigration. I’ve got mine, so I’m not about to shut the door now and say someone else can’t get theirs.
Sorry I came off so strong about his racist comment. I am French and Indian dating a female from Mexico that has her masters in International studies. She can speak 5 languages and supervises the Spanish health center at ISU.
I am sick of white or caucasian people always blaming the problems in our country on an entire race. Chris your pitifull excuse about getting a job has no Scientific evidence. I am a biologist and I only believe what I can observe and retest over and over. I know for a fact that there are more jobs in Idaho then there are people to fill them. Employers are all thinking of raising the amounts of pay to attract good workers becuase no one will work for them.
Mexicans do the jobs lazy Americans wont do. For example in Yakima WA they grow apples and then tree top buys the apples and makes juice and other products. About 3 years ago imagration came down hard on the farmers about hiring illegal imagrants to pick the apples. The ending hypothesis was. No white or black American would even apply for an apple picking job even if it paid 10.00 an hour. The apples all rotted right on the trees, and never left the orchard. The ending result or impact on Americans was increase in price for apples becuase there wasnt as many apples being sold as the year before, causing the stock market to go up a bit, and people had to pay more for apple cider , apple juice, apple pie, apple sauce etc.
With out Mexicans and other imagrants this country would fall apart, because no one will work for a farmer or fast food place. Another thing is most Mexican’s that come to America will goto college thru an exchange program and get a degree, and get a good job in the states. They also pay taxes like anyone else. I hope the Mexicans stay and our laws will try and help them be successfull here.
I also want to say for the record. Americans have always blamed someone else for thier problems. First it was the Indian problem, The Negro problem,now the Mexican problem. What about the Caucasian problem? There are more whites on food stamps than any other race. I think its because most Americans wont apply them selves in School. So they get food stamps and welfare. I think they should get it if needed. No one should ever go hungry. I think people in general need to take responsibility for thier actions. Its Chris’s fault he doesnt have a job. Chris could work anywhere. But like always the majority of Americans wont work for a job unless it pays as much as a job requiring a college degree. I think get the degree first then apply for the jobs and work for less pay untill you can get a better job.
While I don’t agree with the premise of Chris’ statement, I understand that there are alot of people with concerns about illegal immigration in this country. Some people took their turn in line and waited to immigrate legally. Others did not. Some come to the United States and take away more than they produce. Some commit crimes and flee back to Mexico when the heat is on. Some use hospital health care here and don’t pay. The majority of these observations are linked to Hispanics, mainly because they border our country. However, there are many other illegal immigration problems from Chinese coming in through Vancouver, B.C. and other Canadian origins. There are also muslims entering from Canada. Overall, many persons that see themselves as compassionate and caring believe that those that oppose illegal immigrants being here are racist hate mongers. Yet, there are many legal immigrants from Mexico that don’t want illegals here either….are they racist too? Or could it be that people of all colors stand for the rule of law? While live free makes some good points about the economics of the situation……it seems to me that live free exhibits their own brand of racism and/or bigotry making statements like:
“The problem with our society is they are racist judgmental bible reading jerks with out a mirror.”
I take from that statement a strong distaste for persons with a religious background and somehow disparaging those who read the Bible as evil racist hatemongers. Does live free recall how the Catholic Church in Chicago acted as a sanctuary for the mother of a little boy that was to be deported?
IMO many on the left of this debate bring their own stereotypes and racist, or biggoted beliefs into this debate. They come off just like the fringe they espouse to hate. That leaves the rest of us in the middle just simply wanting the law to be followed and enforced.
Everyone here that isnt an North American Indian is an illegal. Thats the problem that no one sees. The first step to understanding is to first look into ones self and see how they became a american. Sure I had said some things in response to Chris’s statment that probaly was not to nice. But you know what? This world is no longer a white mans world but the world of diversity and different ethnical back grounds.
Different religious beliefs but this comes down to the fact hispanics are not the problem here in America. I am saying there are some people that blame other ethnic back grounds for all of Americas problems. The real problems are the law makers scamming Americans into thinking they do not have a choice on how this country is run. It is still we the people and nothing can change that except ignorance. The united state is a haven for all races all religions and I think its ignorant to blame 1 race of people.
Look at America’s early development. Everyone complained that the Irish are taking all the jobs and Italiano’s are taking all the jobs and both of those groups are at fault for the crime in the country. This is a never ending battle. Now everyone is targeting hispanics and Islamic people too.
Look at the sterio types ” Islams are all terrorist” “Mexicans are using up all of the healthcare” “Mexicans can work and make more money than whites and still get food stamps” That is not true you have to meet income guidlines to qualify and also pass thru a case worker who desides if you get help or not even if you qualify. Trust me they can disqualify the most in need by personal opionions I am glad there are folks like me who care.
Your post didn’t address the bigoted comment about religious folkd being racist. IMO, the post further clouded the waters with this gem:
“Everyone here that isnt an North American Indian is an illegal. Thats the problem that no one sees. The first step to understanding is to first look into ones self and see how they became a american.”
If we use your logic, then all the Hispanics coming here are illegal too! They shouldn’t be in the country either…..that is patently ridiculous. How do you expect to handle the issue you purport to care about (and all the people that you purport to care about) when throwing around incendiary bombs like that? Like I mentioned before, IMO, live free is on the same fringe as Chris was. The politicians HAVE tried to fool the people over and over again when all we want is the law enforced and people treated equally UNDER THE LAW. That is not such a foreign concept unless a blind drive for something called diversity gets in the way with politics based on race. Live free says that we should be inclusive….but live free does not want inclusiveness….live free wants racial preferences on the other end of the scale but won’t come out and admit it openly. Instead, it is couched in terms of diversity and ignorance when the real problem is that America cannot be the life boat for Mexico or any other country. When a ship is sinking, there are only so many boats that are available for use. If we overload those boats, everyone sinks. Americans want legal immigration that is managed and fair. It should never be about race. It should be about what is best for America. Now, that is not ignorant. It is the plain and simple truth.
what ever.
Mike, you are correct that we need legal immigration, and we should stand strong against illegal immigration, no matter what the country of origin is for those here illegally.
I personally want to see an end to birthright (the concept that if you are born here, even to someone who is illegally here, YOU are now a citizen).
Apparently we are one of the few countries in the world who allow this gift of citizenship, and it is a magnet for illegals to come here and birth citizen children, who become their ties to stay here. And citizen children get public assistance, like Medicaid and Food Stamps, even though their illegal parents do not. But hey, do you think that baby is eating the meat and potatoes in that grocery basket?
This post was about Food Stamps, not illegal immigration. But a racist comment tied the two together.
So back to the Food Stamps post, do you realize that this is a Federal program, and not a state program???
The feds pay the state money to administer the program alongside their own state assistance programs such as Medicaid. But the Feds require that the state run the program by the Federal rules, (and this includes what people are allowed to purchase) and the state can’t make their own (more restrictive) rules in there.
In addition, the state gets audited to make sure they are doing things correctly. Idaho had such a high error rate that the Feds made the state pay large fines several years running, and only recently the state was able to turn things around and meet the Federal guidelines (and exceed them) to an extent that in December the governor was given a large check as a bonus for good work.
So although we may want to see changes in the program, they won’t happen from a state level, because it’s not a state program. Mike Crapo, Mike Simpson, Bill Sali and Larry Craig are your appropriate contact points for making changes in the Food Stamps program. And I think Mike Crapo even sits on the Agriculture committee which is even now debating the new Farm Bill…
Here’s your chance to get your opinions heard! But good luck on changing anything really important, because this is an election year…
“Idaho had such a high error rate that the Feds made the state pay large fines several years running, and only recently the state was able to turn things around and meet the Federal guidelines (and exceed them) to an extent that in December the governor was given a large check as a bonus for good work.”
Idaho taxpayers had to pay the fines for our government failing to meet standards, but when they meet standards our governor got the bonus check? I hope you mean the governor received a check that went into public funds, not that the governor received a personal bonus check?
That was obviously poorly worded on my part, Joe. Sorry for the confusion.
Yes, the governer’s office accepted the Federal bonus check on behalf of the state, and it was not addressed to him, it was addressed to the state of Idaho, so I’m sure it went into the state coffers.
It was announced in the local media, it happened this last December.
I am Chris and apologize for sounding racist. I am not a man, I am a mother of one and in desperate need of a job. I am frustrated for I have applied to many places and have sent at least 30 resumes out in the past month. I can’t find a job!! I don’t know what to do and have less than $100.00 to my name. Does anyone have any ideas on me getting some help? And…for the record I will be going to all the fast food restaurants here and apply for a job…with my Associate Degree in Business… my child deserves better than living out of our car.
Wow! Nice to see how this debate heated up! I enjoyed the debate between Mike & Live Free. It was just sad to see Live Free give up with his “whatever” remark. We do need “legal immigration”, but at the same token Live Free’s remark about the Hispanics doing many of the jobs that most of us won’t do is true as well. Last years potato farmers had a tough time with the crackdown at the border. Those that came over to work in the fields couldn’t get here and those farmers struggled. While I do believe our borders are top priority in this day and age, I do think we need to implement some type of work permit for farm workers and laborers that come over from Mexico. I do believe that they need to fix the problems in their own country instead of working in ours and going back to live in theirs. But in the meantime, it is a fact that certain jobs are no longer being filled because the Mexican workers aren’t here (or able to get here) to do them.
As for Chris: Although we have the lowest unemployment rate in the country right now, there are jobs out there. (that aren’t in the fast food industry) I know of three decent sized companies that are hiring right now for decent paying positions. While I’m not at liberty to say what companies these are, you will find them listed in either Monster.com, the Post Registers employment section, or betteridahofallsjobs.com. So don’t give up so easily and don’t be so quick to judge those that whatever they can to feed THEIR families. I don’t see how you can be posting in a blog, if you’re “living out of a car”. If you’re using the library for your internet access, than check those sites above. There ARE decent jobs available for those willing to find them.
Thanks Guest 007!! We aren’t living out of a car…I just hope my landlord will let me be a month late on rent…and hopefully I have a job…I should find out in the next couple of days…oh the waiting, but it isn’t stopping me from still searching…wish me luck!
You might try Qwest over by the airport. Their always hiring for customer service/phone positions. They’ll start you out at 10.50 an hour while your in training for 30 days, then it goes up to 12 an hour plus incentives. (if you upsell)
While it’s not excellent pay, it is much better than any fast food joint will give you.
Good luck!
ps…I would also talk to my landlord and tell him the situation I’m in. It’s better that you confront him headon and explain that you’re in between jobs and you’ll need a few weeks to catch up with your rent, than to hide from him and hope he lets it slide. I’ve found over the years that most landlords are very understanding and willing to work with you when it comes to situations like this. It’s going to cost them more to come in and evict you, clean up the place and get it ready to rent again, and then sit on the market for a couple of months. It’s easier for him to let you slide a month while you get your affairs in order.
Thank you SlimPickens you are very kind and very helpful!
you might want to try Idaho dept of labor and commerce. They help find jobs too. And talk to VR and see if they can help you with some of it. I am not sure if they can but I have seen them dish out 5,000.00 for a small buisness grant and also rent and car repairs and computers what ever some one may need to be successfull.
And for the record. I did not give up. I already said my point and had nothing further to say about the topic. I work for the media and learned some restraint.
Thanks for the apology Chris. I am not Hispanic but I am dating Hispanic person and they work for the Hispanic helath center located at ISU. I learned more about Hispanics and what they go thru. I learned alot of respect for them. They work so hard and really try to make a difference in teh communities. There are so many lies and false statements saying they are overloading the footstamps and medical. They arent I am positive. My ex works for health and welfare and she has told me atleast 80% of people enrolled are white.
Live Free: what is VR?
By the way! I told my food stamp worker that I quit my job and to up my food stamps and instead they lowered them to $65 from $201. Sometimes honesty hurts but I wouldn’t have it any other way ya know? I do start a job this Thursday tho and def won’t qualify for the program. A person can get used to $200 of free food a month and when its taken away $200 out of pocket is hard. I will just have to budget our money and stay on it!!
That’s great news Chris! Glad to hear you got the job!! Congrats!
My ex-girlfriend years ago used food stamps for awhile and she used to get 300 a month. Then she got a job and didn’t require it anymore, and yeah….she definately got used to that 300 a month. It makes quite a difference, but at least it helped her out in her time of need as she was a single Mother before I met her.
It does work for those that use it correctly.
Live free is referring to Vocational Rehabilation, which is commonly referred to as VR. They have limits on the population that they can serve, typically disabled, etc.
I’m glad you got a new job. If your Food Stamps were reduced due to a job quit penalty, and you can show you have replaced that job with a new job you should tell your worker that, too, because your quit penalty might be ended and you might get higher benefits again for March. The rules these days allow for more help during certain situations, and your new job situation may help you for now.
Don’t be too proud and turn down the possibility of extra stamps, just because you have a new job. Just starting a new job is pretty stressful and it usually takes a little while to get the money rolling in, so think of it as a way to ease your transition into the workforce once again. Some states even have a transitional Food Stamps program, but Idaho does not.
I agree with what you and Slimpickens said about getting used to the help…trust me, even small amounts are hard to give up when your situation improves. I know someone who got a great job and stopped getting about $38.00 per month, and she thought that was hard to do. But she’s never had to have help again (it’s been 16 years) and she was glad to have the help when she needed it.
I wish you luck.
I was the investigator on these cases:
http://www.kpvi.com/Global/story.asp?S=7826713
We also have recent convictions in Bonneville, Bingham, and Butte Counties.
If any of you have any questions, let me know. We are cracking down on people that abuse taxpayers money and take money from people that need to be on public assistance. If you think someone shouldn’t be on welfare because they make too much money, you are probaby right. Or they are not reporting a spouse in the home…or are claiming children they don’t have…hiding resources, etc…send us a referral to 1-866-635-7515. You can also email a fraud tip to welfraud@dhw.idaho.gov
I can’t have an opinion on this forum, but we are taking measures against people that cheat the system. Chad Christensen
Good Job Mr. Chad!!!!
Let’s goto the Gator sometime.
yeah….like somebody’s gonna report their spouse! highly unlikely. especially when that money is helping towards their grocery bill. not that i condone it, but it’s just silly to assume that somebody will turn in their spouse.
just my opinion.
“In some cases that is how people receive their child support payments. I have a family member who had to take the deadbeat parent to court to get child support. The state stepped in to help and garnished the deadbeats wages. My family member then received the child support money from the state in the form of a Quest Card account”
Idaho has had an influx of childless people from all over who’d never know this type of thing. foodstamps help the local economy and are spent locally, it’s not as though the money from foodstamps is deposited in the same swiss banks NYC diamond dealers use.;)
i bet these childess people are the first ones to scream to support the troops but then they deride someone with children wearing a 1980s rock concert t-shirt who could be a veteran who protected them from the islamosfasicm they learned to fear so much while living in NYC or wherever. lol.
why can’t a person wearing a rock concert t-shirt be entitled to foodstamps just as some welfare queen with 12 children in washington d.c. is entitled to foodstamps? there is there a double standard here?
“why can’t a person wearing a rock concert t-shirt be entitled to foodstamps … there is there a double standard here?”
Can you please point out a single place in Health and Welfare rules where they state folks wearing rock concert t-shirts are not eligible for food stamp assistance?
“Joe Smith is in the grocery line and he is seething. The local school district just passed a levy to raise taxes in order to pay for a teacher raise. But right there in front of him is his son’s teacher. And that blankity blank teacher is buying beer, Doritos, and Twinkies. ”
With the endless levies passed by the bloated teacher’s unions you’d be hard pressed to find them not able to afford twinkies. considering how much benefits in healthcare they get compared to the average working stiff, the public should have a say in the type of lifestyle teachers choose to live as it can affect the cost taxpayers are taxed to support their lifestyle.
what if a teacher choosed to live a lifestyle which makes them more prone to STDs? shouldn’t the taxpayers have a say in this since the taxpayers pay for their healthcare?
Uhhhh no. Do you have health insurance? Because the costs your insurance company pay can affect our rates, why don’t you let us pry into your private life and let us determine if you are prone to STDs? Let us have a say in your life first. Sound good? Go ahead and post your medical history for us, and your recent social activities.
Hey, Chad! Played any fantasy football, lately?
Glad to see you frequenting this fair forum. Maybe you can’t comment on this post but you could comment elsewhere, buddy.
Don’t be a stranger…
the problem is the economy is real bad and cost are rising. Food stamp requirments arent and the amounts arent. me and my kids make to much and we starve. we cant get food stamps to help while im in school. its a joke.
We need help…..you should get ahold of the EICAP. They are affiliated with the Haven….they have gleaning programs and offer food bank help so that you and your kids won’t starve. They are located in downtown I.F. at 357 Constitution, 522-5391.
I had to get help from the Salvation Army when I was first married in the 70s, and our first baby was on the way. I got food from them, and then I volunteered to help with their childrens’ program for a few months because I didn’t want to get without giving.
They didn’t ask me to volunteer.
There are many organizations out there that can help, whether you can return the favor or not. Your obligation is to make sure your children do not starve, so if you don’t take advantage of the help available you are doing your children a disservice.
If nothing else your children can see that sometimes families need help, and they won’t be so quick to judge those who ask for help, neither will they be too proud to do so if this happens to them later as adults. It’s a good life lesson all around.
Good luck.
I have the same issue too. I goto School and make just enought to pay the basics, electricity, rent, car payment, insurance, and gas, food? crap I dont have the money for that childcare eats 340.00 of it. guess food will have to wait. I already have 2 jobs and goto school full time. I dont have anymore time to increase the amount of money I make.
We all go through devastating times when we’re trying to make our lives better, livefree. But allowing your children to go without food is foolish, when there are many helping hands in the community, whether government based, or faith based, etc.
There was a pentacostal type church that took over the building on 9th and Lincoln in IF, that let folks come in several times weekly to get food the church had gotten from Winco, like ‘day old’ bread and lunchmeats that were frozen (to remain usable) on their expiration dates, etc.
I don’t remember their name, or know if they’re still operating, but they had a pretty good service and didn’t ask for help, nor preach at those asking for help, etc. They didn’t make folks register, who came there. It was a pretty anonymous operation.
So there’s always something out there, if you need it. You just have to take the time to ask for it.
Then, when your life is on track, you can take your turn to help others in need.
We wouldn’t have this problem is KIDS would stop having babies in the first place! Let alone not having the father around, we won’t even delve into that one! I was at a friends house the other day while he was checking out the personal sites, you know, Match.com Chemistry, all of those. And I can’t even begin to tell you how many women that were on these sites that are in their 20’s that are single and have 2-3 kids already. It makes absolutely now sense to me. The funny thing was though that 90 percent of them were LDS. I thought LDS people believed in the sanctity of marriage and didn’t get divorced as often as other folks? Not in this state that’s for sure!
Like I said, babies need to stop having babies and we wouldn’t have this food stamp problem!
ok you just pissed me off. I am a single father raising my child alone. and Second I am not a kid. ewwwwww you know what joe I am done with this site you have to many idiots comming here that run people off. I am sick of the rascist comments and sexest comments on here and people talking trash to poor people. you people are sick and need to buy a soul.
Ok I am cooled off after hours of waiting. Sorry for coming a bit strong here. I have been thru hell being a dad and raising my children alone. I get attacked alot by women and I get so sick of it.
Number one, I’m not a woman. Number two, you, like countless other people in this country, should not have had children if you couldn’t plan to raise them in a healthy, happy, two-parent household! Thats the problem with this country and our 56% divorce rate! It’s the kids that pay the price. Number three, I didn’t direct comment 160 towards you or anybody else. I merely stated MY OPINION, which is what YOU do oh so well on this site now isn’t it??
So don’t throw a little tantrum because somebody else has an opinion that differs from yours. Nobody forced you to be a single father…..that was YOUR decision, not ours. Maybe the next time you find a partner, fall in love and decide to have children, you’ll think twice and hopefully you’ll stay together for the childrens sake.
I’m not big on “commercials”, but there’s a good one I saw the other day, although I’m not sure what company it was (some car co I think)….anyways it went something like this: If your not happy with your nose, get a new one. not happy with your spouse, get a new one. and so on…..and the tag line was: “what ever happened to commitment”. That’s a great commercial and a great question. What ever happened to commitment?? Now I can understand divorce, it happens to the best of us. (& I’m not immune) but when you bring children into the picture, thats where I have a problem. I believe this is one of the reasons we have so many school shootings, and certainly one of the reasons we have so many people on food stamps and govt assistance. The point I was trying to make in 160, was stop having babies right out of high school!! (or even college for that matter) And for cryin out loud, if you ARE going to have kids, make sure this is the person you truly want to spend the rest of your life with. There are way too many broken homes/families in this country as it is.
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“you, like countless other people in this country, should not have had children if you couldn’t plan to raise them in a healthy, happy, two-parent household!”
Nobody wants to raise a kid alone. My ex-wife and I didn’t have kids for the first few years because we wanted to be certain we were ready to raise children. Well guess what? It did not work out. We did plan to raise them together. Your comment was a little too ignorant for me. Take off the rose colored glasses and see the world for what it really is. By the way, I got custody of my daughter and have raised her for the past 15 years with the help of my second wife (married 10+ years now) and my 2 sons from this marriage. Both my current wife and I plan to raise our kids and be together always. But, check in with me 10 years from now. Who knows what will have happened by then. After all, the best laid plans……
I don’t think his comment was ignorant at all. Whatever DID happen to committment? Why are SO many people in this country so willing to just “give up” on their relationships and put their childrens happiness and wellbeing in jeapordy? I thought guest007 made some good points and I too believe it’s the reason we have so many of the problems we do in this country.
Don’t bash somebody elses comments just because they differ from yours. (that seems to be a major theme on this site. Lets call a poster ignorant because he believes in family values. yeah, that makes sense!)
Yeah there seems to be a lot of personal nitpicking lately.
Objectivity: logic, facts, criteria, settings, etc.
Subjectivity: likes, dislikes, preferences, moods, gray areas, etc.
If we’ve got a beef with someone’s statement, it should be easy to say “you’re wrong because of this logic, this fact, this criteria conflicts”.
I think we would all rather read those comments (and respond to them) than “you’re wrong because of this like, dislike, preference, mood, etc.”
I’m in the mood for some more coffee.
Who says I don’t believe in family values? Who says I wasn’t committed. Some of you have a tendency to sit on your high horse and look down on others. I can assure you I am a well connected member of society, who really had no choice but to make the decision I did. Believe me, it was not easy to “quit”. That does not make me and my actions “part of the problem”. especially since part of my actions stemmed from getting my child removed from a situation where she could have been severely harmed. When it came to protecting my child or condoning my spouse’s dangerous lifestyle (for which she was warned about several times), I choose my child. I never looked back, and my kid benefited from my decision. Some of us get lucky the first time around, some of us don’t. That doesn’t make you any better than me. Especially since you didn’t have to make that hard decision. Sure, there are a lot of people who get married with the idea that they can get out of it easily by divorce. Not me. I never subscribed to that way of thinking. So don’t lump me into your opinion that anyone who gets divorced is a problem, or uncommitted, etc. It’s not true, and it is ignorant.
Does the whole maelstrom of issues around welfare in general boil down to ability to forgive for mistakes? We’re all imperfect humans who make mistakes. How much are we willing to forgive each other for making mistakes? We are willing to forgive the mistakes that cause a person to need to ask for help, but we are not willing to forgive if that person keeps making the same mistakes.
Don’t we also learn more from our mistakes than our successes? Didn’t Green Day sing “it’s something unpredictable but in the end is right, i hope you had the time of your life.”
Anger is always rooted in fear, identifying that underlying fear can help deal with anger. Anger is often rooted in the fear of being taken advantage of, fear of paying more than our fair share while others do not.
Can some of the folks above be big enough to admit the fear driving their anger?
Hee hee. Joe, I was always amused by the title of that Green Day song, it’s called “Good Riddance”.
Such a frank (and slightly angry) title for such touchy feely lyrics.
But you have nailed the anger issue, I think. We don’t want to be taken advantage of by those who aren’t doing their fair share of the work in society, those who aren’t putting in their fair share of trying to better themselves and sit back and let us shoulder the burden of paying for their lives…when no one is doing the same for us…
I’m one of those (here comes the name calling) fools who hands a $20 bill to the guys (very rarely gals) standing on the street corners. I figure I can help out if they’re willing to suffer the indignity of publicly asking for help. Those of you who think I’m contributing to the problem, you’re entitled to your opinion.
But in my opinion, I’m not judging the merits of their need, whether they use it to buy alcohol or drugs, or whether they’re scamming me and are really rich, or whatever. I’m responding to the request for help, because I can, and it’s my choice. If I were to assume none of them were worthy of help I would be making a judgment based upon my own mental baggage and not upon what I actually know about the person.
I try to suspend my cynicism for a short while and be charitable in that small way. It may only be my humanity I’m paying for, but at least I’m trying.
Funny how Divorce is not always… spouts off about people on this site up on their high horses looking down on others and then turns around one sentence later and talks about what a well connected member of society he/she is. I about fell out of the chair laughing when I read that one. Who cares what your place in society is? That has nothing to do with your willingness to make a marriage work “for better, or for worse”. All to often people (in our society) forget about the vows they made in front of God & family and it all ends up being just lip service. You can be the president of the free world or a dishwasher at Applebees, but your “place in society” has nothing to do with your integrity as a human being and the value you place on the sanctity of marriage. Whether a spouse had a drug problem or was leading a second life by sleeping around doesn’t matter. What does matter is how you handle these issues within a marriage. All to often people would rather give up instead of work through the tough times. One thing I did notice about your comment was the fact that you said you “warned your spouse”. That seems like an interesting way to help a spouse work through their problems.
And I don’t think anybody here was saying they were better than your or anyone else for that matter and I believe you “lumped yourself” into being the problem. Once again, it’s amazing how people get so defensive when someone has an opinion that differs from their own.
Wow. I actualy see some educated open minded responses. Ok I have a few things to add lol. I was madly in love with my childrens mom she just didnt want to grow up and be a mom to the kids. Her life style is a bad one. We even tried family counseling and that was a joke. I decided it was better to get a devorce and move on. I am only on public assistance right now because I am trying to goto school I am taking 18 credits and its hard I never get time to work another job I only can work 2 right now. Part time jobs. My children are very happy but can be bad real fast if they think they can pull one on a child care worker. Disipline is very important in a childs development. Grounding, talking, naughty corner, sad chair, spankings etc. And my favorite one is tender loving care. The child will always respect you even if you do spank them. I always show my kids I love them very much. my daughter is 5 and has a first grade education my son is 7 and he is smart too. I think letting children live a fantasy disneyland life is bad. You should always tell them the truth and talk to them like they are small people or small adults. Most of the time they make good choices. good reasoning is part of a childs morals and rules set for them at home.
Hmmm, what a hotbed issue this is becoming!!
I do think we live in a society where it is waaaayyyyy too easy to get divorced; I see and have seen couples who say, “We just don’t love each other anymore…” Well, guess what? Marriage isn’t an amusement park ride! You don’t leave when the fun ride ends!!! Marriage is a commitment more than anything else, to see each other through the bad times as well as the fun, happy times….and that includes “falling out of love” periodically. If you don’t have children, fine. But if there are kids, don’t you owe it to them to honor the committment you made?
But I do think, if there is a risk of harm to one spouse or, more importantly, to a child, than by all means, take advantage of the divorce laws being as relaxed as they are and get out for everyone’s good…..the problem I have with this, however, is I have seen too many people cry “Abuse!” and then allow their kids to have unlimited unsupervised visitation with the “abuser.” Well, if you really think he/she is abusive, do you really think it is a good idea to leave your child alone with this person? And, were they ever abusive before kids came along? If so, you might have wanted to re-think having children with this person.
Everyone makes mistakes; we are all human; but marriage shouldn’t really fall into that category, should it? With no real societal pressure to marry anymore, why should we rush into something that we then call a “mistake”? It is a huge, huge committment and I think sometimes that gets lost in the whole “romance” of marriage.
I have to say, I have been happily married for 13 years but then again, I waited to marry until I was 31. :0 Something to be said for being an old maid, I guess.
cool. i am glad to hear the marriage lasted so long thats rarety in todays society.
Some of you who obviously haven’t ever been divorced don’t realize something. To save a marriage it takes both partners being willing to try. If one partner splits it doesn’t matter how badly the other wants to work things out. Your stuck by yourself raising kids by yourself. How are you supposed to save your marriage if your spouse leaves you for someone else?
I guess I did not want to save mine that bad. I was a bit disturbed about other men having sex with her. I guess I am a bad person because I have some morals and don’t really like sharing a partner. Especialy someone who I was going to marry. I think its a good idea to end it when they are sleeping around and abusing drugs, stealing, lying, But think what you want. I do not care if everyone curses me I am getting used to it. I am sure someone has some kind of rejection and something rude to say I am just going to sit here and wait for it.
YES!!!!! I left her and I took the kids. I am an evil non religious person. I am a bad parent for leaving my childs drug addicted mom right? anyone? I guess I just couldnt wait till she got sickness and health problems to leave her lol.
I know I am so horible and grotesk everyone hates me. here is the list of things everyone on here hates and I have a list of no no’s on here.
1. I smoke cigarettes
2. I pack a gun
3. I get public assistance
4. Ive been devorced
5. I am a man raising my children alone (im satan in know)
6. I do not believe in christ or god (im dead now for sure)
7. I spank both my kids
8. I am not mentaly ill (oh no now im not normal)
9. I back our soldiers in Iraq (now im a bad guy)
10.I don’t agree with a topic just to win freinds.
11.I say what is on my mind.
12.I live free and dream free
13. I live outside the box.
I think I have listed all the reasons everyone hates me so bad on here.
live_free, you need to add another number to your list (and no, I’m not triskaidekaphobic).
*I’m egocentric and it’s all about me on this blog.*
Come on, I’ve tried to be supportive, or at the least neutral and nonjudgmental around your comments, but you’re doing all this to yourself, dude.
SlimPickens #171 said it best: “Once again, it’s amazing how people get so defensive when someone has an opinion that differs from their own.”
I hope you can calm down. If comments on a blog by anonymous individuals that you will probably never meet can anger you to such an extent, what will happen when some woman (you wrote that “I get attacked alot by women and I get so sick of it” in comment #162) pushes your buttons face to face, on campus, where you just happen to have that handy dandy handgun you’re lobbying to carry?
Breathe deeply and enjoy your weekend. Build a snowman with your children before the snow melts. Anything that takes your mind off of the inconsequential comments by folks you’ll never meet and therefore should not lose sleep over.
I started my own list of why people wouldn’t like me on this site, but it was too long and I realized I didn’t care what others think.
Remember most of us here are concerned more with the quality of statements, what you say in each comment, than in the quality of who you are as a person in the real world. I think if you reread some of these conversations you’ll see people reacting to the quality of your words not the quality of who you are.
Or I’m just a plain idiot, that was on my list too. 8^)
Where there any legislative changes proposed this session to welfare?
I’ve heard the LDS church’s welfare program requires participants to work for their benefits. Not to get into the religion issues, but it’s a feature of their welfare program I think the state should adopt. From what I’ve heard, the work is nothing major, just cleaning or painting their buildings. I’ve also heard they get a lot of folks who walk away when they hear they have to put in a little work to earn the welfare money.
Why doesn’t the state have a similar program? We can excuse the paraplegics and elderly, but most everyone else should be able to do some work in exchange for public money, shouldn’t they?
I would like to see something minor required, say 10 hours a month of community service for each month you receive benefits. What’s the problem with this idea?
I’ve heard some doozies are coming down the pike around the child care assistance payments made by the state (some will help those who are in need, some will hurt, I guess the money amount was finite and they had to make a tradeoff).
Some changes are coming in most programs for those who are self employed. (I’m of two minds on that issue, seems to me we shouldn’t be subsidizing those who want to start their own business, but that’s just my personal bias showing and I probably just haven’t thought it through enough).
I heard a comment years ago, when the country was undergoing Welfare Reform in the mid 90s. There was also some illegal immigrant debate, and the idea that they do work that most citizens won’t do for those kinds of wages, and the comment was made that why don’t we make able-bodied folks do that work to get cash assistance? Then the work would get done and we wouldn’t have all these extra jobs out there to entice illegals.
Obviously that remark didn’t go anywhere.
I was raised on welfare. I thought it was the most humiliating thing I could think of, and as an adult I did my damndest to keep from needing it (except for a 3 year period when I was working full time at minimum wage, and we qualified for Food Stamps.)
I believe we need the financial safety net. However, I also agree that it shouldn’t be a lifestyle for able bodied adults.
Joe, your idea would sound good on the face of it, but I qualified for Food Stamps as a household of three, working 40 hours per week at minimum wage. If I had to put in extra time on top of that, just to eat, I guess I would do it, but being away from my daughters for 50 hours a week (with travel and unpaid lunch) was already terrible enough, especially in the summers when there was no school.
I don’t know what the answer is. I believe that Idaho has the strictest cash welfare laws in the nation, but even with a robust economy I’ve heard that the Food Stamps usage keeps rising.
To live free: Were you married to this woman or not? First you said you married and divorced her, then a few days later you say “Especialy someone who I was going to marry, I think its a good idea to end it when they are sleeping around..” Sounds like you don’t have your story very straight. I think you are full of stories and tall tells. It’s sad hen someone feels they need to say “look at me” with so many wild stories.
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Live Free: I really feel like you are using the site and those of us that post on it for some type of therapy or something. Even though you are anonymous, we still know way too much about you personally. And that is my point (as well as that of others on here)….we don’t want to know about all the personal stuff going on in your life.
If you must make a point about personal experiences once in awhile, that is fine….but it really seems like it happens way too much. I am not saying that your issues are not important to you at all….they probably are….it’s just that we don’t go airing our personal situation(s) to everyone on this site. Otherwise, this site will turn into a soap opera devoid of substance.
We post here to learn about other points of view–not to learn your entire social history. Please take that into consideration and stop thinking that we all hate you or want you to go away. Debate the merits on the merits. You can have an opinion, you just don’t have to tell us every little detail about how and why you formed that opinion. If you want to socialize and share these details, start dating or join a support group for single fathers.
Well said Mike!
I’ve seen the same thing GuestinIF. In the Sergant Vela post he talks about “being shot at” over in Iraq, yest in different comment he says he wasn’t in the service his Father was. He seems to be caught in his own web of lies and trys too hard to impress others on this site.
The fact that he felt the need to “make a list” of why people hate him on an anonymous internet site and an earlier post where he completely built himself up to try and impress people who could really care less, shows a complete lack of self worth and definately signs of being bi-polar.
I would suggest he read and then re-read the last paragraph of Mikes comment #183. I think he summed it up well.
http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/faqs.htm#20
“46 percent of participants are white; 31 percent are African-American, non-Hispanic; 13 percent are Hispanic”
Whites are under-represented in foodstamps per their population (USA is 60% White, though declining with massive third world immigration) group where-as Blacks are doubly over-represented.
According to http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Blacks commit an astounding 52% of all homicide in the U.S despite being 13% of the population.
JasonP, statistics can say anything you want them to say. Do you have statistics for how much public assistance is used in the more poor areas of the country, and what the ratio of race is in those areas?
In Idaho, do you have information for the ratio of usage, amongst those who are a ratio of the population?
Or, for the murder statistics, how much of this crime is committed in the poorer areas, and what is the ratio of race in those areas?
What is your point, please, so we understand why you are posting this information? I’m glad to see new info but I’d like to know why you want to share.
I understand where you are coming from JasonP, but you’re cherry picking the statistics that suit your viewpoint.
I challenge you to find the stastics on how much educational funding black schools get, how many of those blacks in prison for murder come from broken homes, etc. Have you ever seen the studies where exact same resumes are submitted to companies but one has a black-sounding name; guess which resume doesn’t get called back? I’m reading a Bill Cosby book now called “Come On People” that aims to make blacks stop living victimized, it has some interesting statistics.
007 its non of your buisness why I was in Iraq. trust me you do not want to know. Its best said at that. Technicaly my body was there my identity was not.
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Oh I noticed chris was told that Vocational Rehabilitation can only help the diabled that isnt true. They are the local provider for Federal money being dished out for small buisnesses to get started. you have to create a small buisness plan. You can do this by contacting the small buisness development center in idaho falls. Talk to Randy Alshaman he is one of the instructors and personal small buisness counselers. VR will even pay for the classes its only 1 night a week usualy on wednsdays. I might have spelled Randys last name wrong but it looks as it really sounds.
JFYI 007 I only married 1 person and we never had kids I devorced her. Both of my kids are with different moms and they both are trashy trouoble making and welfare using wrecks. These women can’t change thier life they have damaged it way to bad.
I also met this gal at school she has 3 boys all from different Dads and lives off welfare and goes to school. She is a nice gal but her house is very filthy and I can’t stand someone who is a dirty person. I would love to help her with her boys and even date her. But she isnt going to clean up after them and I do not have time to. I went over to her house and helped her clean it like 4 times now and she lets it get out of control everytime. She doesnt take care of her stuff at all. That tells me she wouldnt respect mine. She is real poor and has no money. Money isnt everything I look for a good hearted honest person who is also clean. there is no excuse for someone to be dirty. I keep my place very clean and my hygene si good too. I know for a fact this gal can keep the place clean if she trains her boys to pick up messes they make. I proved it and made them help us clean the house. I think they did very well. But she has no idea how to get her kids to clean. I was like here pick up that car and toss it in your toy box. ” NO!!!” Oh okay I guess your still a little baby and dont know how to yet. He said ” yes I do ” I was like no you do not. He put the car in the toy box. then I was like yea right that was just luck if you could really do it you would pick them all up. Her boy picked them all up. The other 2 picked up trash and hauled it out then cleaned the kitchen table and washed the floor by hand in the kitchen and helped me wash walls off. So I had this place cleaned good and showed her how to get the boys to help and explained what ground rules she needed to keep them from wrecking it. She is still a filthy pig. I can’t stay attracted to a pig yuk.
Twilight Zone music begins to play…………..
WOW! That’s just a little more information than I needed to know…
Live Free sure knows how to pick winners
Yeah he can can’t he? LOL!
Then he goes on and says he can’t be with this filty girl he met and that he doesn’t have time to clean up after her and her kids, yet he’s gone over their 4 times to do it anyways. Yeah, that makes sense. And if that’s not enough, look at how he’s trying to teach HER children. Calling one a “baby” because he won’t pick up after himself. GREAT parenting skills!
Obviously he’s attracted to the drama and chaos of low income single mothers. Livefree….perhaps you should look at your past mistakes and actually learn from them. You’ve got two different kids from two different women who were both trashy and on welfare. I think a light should have gone off in his head when he met this girl from school who is exactly the same.
You explain that the first two can’t change their lives because they’ve “damaged them too bad”? (first off….that makes no sense whatsoever….ANYBODY can change if they set their mind to it)….but if that’s not enough, he falls right back into the same problems and issues he had with the first two by dating (or at least hanging out with) yet another women who doesn’t have her life together.
Not that it’s my business,(but since you’re airing all your dirty laundry online, alls fair) I personally think you need to take some parenting classes to really learn how to treat children. You don’t degrade them in order to have them do something. If that’s what you do to SOMEBODY ELSE’s kids, I’m afraid to think of what you do to your own!
And two, I don’t think you should be looking for anyone else to date that has children OR is on welfare. Seems you’ve got enough problems trying to raise your own, you don’t need more of that drama in your life.
It would be wise for you to stop posting your issues and problems online. I notice that you asked Joe to go through all your past posts and delete comments you wrote that will “identify you”? I don’t think any of your posts identify you per se’, but you do post an awful lot of personal stuff. You might wanna try Myspace or a site like that if you want everyone to know your personal business.
but that’s just my 2 cents.
It doesn’t matter to me either way….I find it quite entertaining!
Thats what I’m sayin….
I might also suggest that he take some parenting classes. I think you’re drawn to the drama that comes with low-income women on welfare with a handful of kids. You’ve already had two kids with two different women who were on welfare and now you’ve met a girl you like who’s got THREE kids from THREE different guys. Call me crazy but that should have turned on a little red light in your brain when you met THIS one. You say you can be with someone like her, yet you’ve already been over there and helped her clean her house 4 times. THAT’s smart! Then you attempt to discipline HER kids by degrading them….calling them “babies” because they won’t pick up their toys? WOW!! If thats how you treat OTHER peoples kids….I’d hate to see how you treat your own. Dude….you don’t degrade children in order to get them do what you want. That’s just not how you discipline a child! Look into some counseling buddy because it’s obvious you’re not going to get out of this rut until you do. Stop dating women on welfare with a handful of kids! You may say it’s none of my business, but then again its you who continue to air your dirty laundry on this site every day, after many of the posters have suggested otherwise. So don’t be surprised when others offer their opinions.
I suggest you look into some parenting classes as well.
Take care & best of luck!
I wrote and rewrote my comment this morning when I first read all that spew, and decided I couldn’t say anything that wasn’t really mean spirited. Not that I’m a saint, but I didn’t think they’d contribute to the conversation.
I’ve had all day to mellow out, then found that I wasn’t alone, and now I think I can say something…
Thanks, live_free, for showing me in living color that I really shouldn’t say too much about my personal life on this site…it just feels so yucky to read about yours, so I’m sure others probably think the same about the stuff I say about mine.
I’m not going to advise you to do anything else except try to avoid so much personal information in your comments. I’ll try to do the same!
It boggles my mind….it really does. We’ve been telling this guy to stop discussing his personal life on this site for weeks, yet he still continues to. And to the extent that he did in post 192 was pretty extreme. But from reading the post, you can definetly see why he’s got the problems that he does. Some people just thrive on drama in their lives. I for one feel sorry for all the kids involved here. Their all growing up in broken homes living on govt assistance and thinking that’s normal. That’s whats sad.
I have to agree with 007….I sure hope you don’t talk down to your kids like that when they don’t do what you ask them to. That was pretty disheartening to read.
I think you should take everyones advice (again) and leave out the personal stories.
So, can we get back on the topic now?
Yeah, lets get back to the topic. I was at a local store a few months ago, and I am a person who is able to buy food for another I help look after, (with this persons permission, as well as health and welfare), with this persons quest card. I bought this person, healthy, low fat, low calorie, low bad-cholesterol, high fiber basic foods. I myself had my own money…cash, yes real cash, and I was buying (for myself), junk food for a New Years eve party. I was shocked, as this lady came up to the line as I was checking out, and said, “Well, it sure would be nice if we could all use food stamps to buy sodas, chips, and candy and sit on our lazy asses all day and watch soaps, you leach!”. I turned the other cheek, not letting myself get on her level, as it amuzed me of her bluntness/suredness, and feeling sorry for her that she did not understand. But I would like people to know, that I also agree there should be some substantial changes made to the food stamp program, such as limiting the type of food a person is able to purchase with the card. But, not all of us are on welfare, some of us are there, to help the people who are in need.
We as a society (and I am as bad as anyone else) jump to conclusions far too quickly, and we make rash, unfounded judgments far too often.
You should have said, “You think I’m lazy, how lazy is the person who is actually on welfare for whom I am buying their groceries here, not my stuff here.”
using reverse psycology isnt degrading a child. All I was doing was telling the child I did not think they could do it. So the child naturaly wanted to prove me wrong and did it. Its just another way to get them to clean up messes or listen. I was describing someone I had met that is currently using food stamps and welfare system and takes no personal responsibility to keep her things in order. The reason for the detail is there are so many people who twist things people write on here. I noticed still more tried after that post. Good try guess I am lucky I encluded good detail. PARENTING CLASSES??? I hope that wasnt directed towards me. I have taken several parenting classes and reverse psycology is taught in that class. There is nothing wrong with using that wonderfull method on children it works try it. Just tell them when they wont clean thier room that they are still to little and havent become a big boy or girl yet. Big boys and girls alwayts keep a clean room. I tell you what that child will clean it lol.
I tell ya what bothers me is someone that gets all of this welfare and wont work and stays at home and raises the kids and wont clean thier house. I think they should get taken away from thier mom when the house gets that filthy and she should lose her food stamps if she can’t even clean the house or work part time. I raise kids by my self and I can keep my place nice and spottless. I am a busy person too. There isnt any excuse for it. I am sure someone will fine one I can’t wait to hear it.
I do not see why anyone really didnt like that post. I was describing a situtation that is far to common. Well its your choice to take it as you may. I supplied the story you supply the understanding. I noticed alot of people tend to ignore things said and add thier own opinions but thats fine too. There alos seems to be several other parents on here that neglect teaching thier children right from wrong and let them do what they want. Well I hope you can pay for the kiddie jail time they are going to get someday for not listening to authorities. I am a proud parent because I have faith my children will always know right from wrong.
I feel sorry for your children. If you really have have any that is.
livefree….reverse psychology is one thing, calling them names in order to get them to do what you want, is a complete other. I can promise you they don’t teach you that in your “parenting class”.
And who are you to discipline this girls children anyways? You say you don’t want to date her because she’s “a filty pig”, yet you’ve gone over there on 4 seperate occasions (that we know of) to help her clean her house. Obviously something is there, or you wouldn’t continue to clean her house, or let her “use you” to clean her house. Seriously, you should find somebody a little more “stable”. A girl thats on welfare and has 4 kids from 4 different guys, is far from stable. In fact, we called them “tramps” back in my day. Is your self esteem really THAT low?
You also stated that “you noticed a lot of parents on this site that neglect teaching their children right from wrong”. How’d did you come about this assesment? I certainly haven’t read anywhere where somebody has written or even admitted to NOT teaching their children right from wrong. It’s assumptions like this that keep too many people on this site from taking what you say too seriously.
How about keeping the personal stories out of your post and that will prevent others from making snap judgements about you?
I notice that you asked Joe the other day to go through all of your posts and delete any personal information that may “identify” you. Than you go and write a personal experience like the one above? Can we say “bi-polar”? you gotta admit….that was a little odd. Nobody wants to hear about you cleaning some girls house because she’s a filty pig. This isn’t the Jerry Springer show. (although sometimes….)
Joe Vandal…The person I was buying food for is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life, and cannot walk, let alone lift his arms. Yes Nemesis, you are right…we all jump to conclusions at times.
Sorry, I certainly didn’t mean it like that.
i dont think you guys understand the meger amount of funds that idaho state gives you. my dad is on disabilaty and makes $600 a month. and idaho gave me and him around 80 bucks a month which is hardly enough to survive off of. even when buying food cheap is was rough. i dont know that you guys understand some peoples situation. not everyone that has food stamps is a drug addict or a drunk. some people just have a hard time getting by.
Alot of people have a hard time getting by, including those that work and have children. No one is arguing against a safety net. The main point is that at any given time some people might need the net. How long they continue to rely on the net (assuming they are able to work) is the real issue. I know some kids at Development Workshop that border IQ’s of 70…..they get up and goto work every day….in fact, they look forward to it!
When I look at the work ethic in these kids it makes me shake my head in wonder about the channel surfing, cheeto eating, Oprah watching lazy people that sit around all day and expect a $75,000 job to jump in their lap or they aren’t going to work for “peanuts”. These are the type of folks that make blood shoot out of my eyes…..and which I have no problem cutting off public assistance.
I agree, Mike. I like the idea that our society has a safety net, used it myself 18 years ago when I was working for minimum wage. Hated it every step of the way (but fair to say I hated poverty worse, and quickly worked my way out of it).
I have a step son who is developmentally delayed, IQ of 80. He would dearly love to work, have a schedule and a set place to be at a set time and a productive job to do. However, he has a severe hunchback and Marfan’s which impacts his heart and his hands…he’s too shaky to do much…but he is one eager fellow if you offer him something to do.
Attitude goes a long way.
Ill take food stamps from the government as long as they undermine me by allowing illeagl aliens to come and do battle with me for a decent living
No, what you mean is you will take food stamps from US (not the government) and will use illegal aliens as a whipping boy to avoid working.
I liked your article. However, I do think that you have overlooked the fact that a lot of people who need and use foodstamps are a lot like you and not the people you’ve described. I work at a grocery store and most of the people who use their quest card are normal, healthy, individuals who just need a break. They have too many bills to pay, but don’t make enough money to make ends meet. I’ve been there, I know. Just stop and think about the reason why food stamps and other government charities were put in place. People need help sometimes. Say you just had a child and are unable to work for an extended period of time. You still have monthly bills to pay and yet you aren’t earning an income for six weeks. How do you suppose you’re going to make ends meet? You aren’t. Even with some government help it’s tough. What if you get into an accident and can’t work for an even longer amount of time? Things happen that we don’t have control of and if there wasn’t a government system set in place…many of our families would go without or lose their homes…any number of things could go wrong. I would stop complaining about the free-loaders you’ve described and start thinking about what would happen if our working class never got a break.
My grandfather lived by the philosophy that if you can’t pay cash for something, then you don’t need it. And, this has been passed down from him. To a certain degree I try to live by this creed also. There are a few exceptions, but very few. He also instilled in all of us that at a bare minimum we needed to have a nest egg which was worth at least 6 months of living expenses. It was tough, and I mean real tough, to achieve these goals. But guess what, we all did it. My grandparents lived through the depression and it was their goal that their off spring never had to experience the hardships they did. They refused any government subsidy that was offered. They never helped any of us financially and with each generation, the goals remain the same. It took me many many years, but now I am relatively well off and live quite comfortably. We all sacrificed and did without a lot of the toys that everyone seems to think they have to have, but that just makes them all the better when we finally could get them. To this day, I make car payments and house payments to myself each month so that when the time comes, I can pay cash for a new car (with my trade-in). None of the students in college in my family have a car, but they all have bicycles. And I admit, they each receive $2000/year from me. The rest of the money must come from scholarships, grants, or their working.
While I can sympathize with those who need help, I believe that if having a child and no income for 6 weeks is going to put a family into poverty they might want to re-think whether to have that child. In my opinion that is part of the problem. It’s hard to understand people bringing children into the world when they don’t even have any money saved.
Sadly, there are no prerequisites for having a child other than the desire for instant gratification. Once the biological process is set in motion, monetary and religious pressures often insure a successful delivery of these children who are inducted into a life of poverty- by chance. These kids grow up to be gang bangers, drug addicts, wife beaters, murderers and rapists. They also grow up to be educators, engineers, doctors, and civil servants.
Sorry folks, there is never good without bad. The welfare system is badly broken, but if I had the choice between spending our tax dollars to feed under privileged American kids vs. the plethora of pork-barrel projects Washington cranks out every session, I guess I’d opt for the Mac n’ Cheese for little white trash Johnny. He might just grow up and cure cancer.
But as always, that’s just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Ok, lets look at my situation
I have a fallen arch, so finding work where I live isn’t easy. Any standing is irritating, standing over an hour puts me into shock.
I have general discharge from the USN, which is looked upon unfavorably.
I left grad school, cause injuries made the transportation difficult. I rode the tram to school, but was often dizzy/disoriented after the walk to/from school.
I have B.S. in Physics and growing up was very involved in sports. I’m very conscious of nutrition.
I’m married and have 6 children, my wife always wanted a big family.
Since graduating in 2001 I’ve applied for 3000+ jobs that use a degree, I’ve been turned down or turned down for all of them due to my injury.
We are currently getting food stamps, which I believe I use rather appropriately. Mostly on bread, milk, cheese, meat, fruit juice(the real stuff, not that sugary stuff), pasta.
I know I’m in the minority of people that are on food stamps. As far as my education and interests.
I’m really at a loss as what to do to get out of the rut I’m in.
There seems to be no way out right now. I’m not going to be a drug addict to take the pain away.
I’d literally starve to death before I’d accept sterilization.
I’m not a prideful person, in fact you could say I have no pride at all.
I’d give you the shirt off my back and I’d help people any way I can.
I’m not greedy, I believe in teamwork and self sacrifice.
Now there seems to be a large stigma associated with food stamps or receiving help at all. I’ve had uncles say inappropriate things. I haven’t talked to my only brother in 4 years, cause the only thing he does is cuss me out for not having a job.
Rod, there are so many others in our community that have disabilities that are far worse than what you are explaining and will go to any legnth to be productive. There are many orthopedic helps that could assist you in your fallen arch, have you checked into any of them?
As I read your comments, you list excuse after excuse of why you can’t. I find many people with excuse after excuse of why they can. Our welfare system, which includes food stamps, wasn’t meant as an early retirement program. It was meant to be used by individuals until they are able to get back on their feet and be productive. I read in your comments that you have schooling and have a good knowledge of nutrition. I was looking at the Dist. 91 job opening list today and there is a perfect nutrition job opening that you could fill. Since you have been looking for work, there is an opportunity for you.
There was one thing that you said that is perplexing about your job searching. You said, “Since graduating in 2001 I’ve applied for 3000+ jobs.” I am sorry but that is a hard one for me to believe. Given 5 days a week, you would have had to apply for 1.6 jobs every day for the last 7 years. I call BS. I think you have found a comfortable spot and do not want to move. As a full time tax payer, I vote to kick you out of our welfare program until you can get off your duff and be productive. If, at that time, you need additional help I am all for giving you limited assistance. If you are as truly as disabled as you claim, that would place you into a job hiring preference that would be very helpful for you obtaining employment.
The last thing I want to give my opinion on is when you said, “I’m not greedy, I believe in teamwork and self sacrifice.” Are you seroious? Given your own examples, it is obvious that you like teamwork as long as the team is working to give you something, but if you have to give back you consider yourself a victim.
GET UP AND GET TO WORK!!!!!!! That is how you get out of the rut you are in.
Yeah, I have to side with Porter on this one. I’ve found throughout life that the people who list excuse after excuse like Rod did, are doing just that, listing excuses. I don’t buy excuses. I’ve known people with worse conditions make it in the workforce and do quite well. 3000+ job applications….I find that hard to believe, especially when the workforce in America can not discriminate against anyone at anytime for ANY disabilitiy. I think people who decide to have 6 children are extremely greedy and more often than not bite off more than they can chew and it’s the children who end up paying the price by living in poverty or fighting for the love and attention of their parents who often don’t have enough to give to each child equally.
this is the part that troubles me:
“I’m married and have 6 children, my wife always wanted a big family . . .”
Wanting a big family is one thing; once you realized you couldn’t support yourself, do you really think it was wise to have that many kids???
This is the same kind of mentality that has led the country down the garden path to ruin. This type of entitlement theory and lack of regard for judicious use of resources marks another micro chapter in problems plaguing America. We willfully live beyond our means and then wonder why we are in the predicament that we are in. Personal responsibility has been buried…….but it is not dead yet.
So, we can continue to vote for entitlement programs that we cannot afford, or we can buckle down and freeze spendng and begin making the tough cuts that are needed to reduce the size of government. We can start by cutting corporate welfare and stronger oversight of general welfare programs. I am all for a helping hand, but not a continued handout.
I hope you folks start thinking about your own issues coming up real soon with todays world issues facing us all. You will need food to survive soon. I will even bet most of the people in here that are middle class saying all this negative stuff about food stamp recipients will need the food bank or stamps them selves in the near future. To deny this fact and not be ready is only giving up to a sad fate. I would recomend to everyone rich or poor to stock up real good on medicine and food and come up with a family survival plan. Do not expect the government to think one up for you or the church. Try to help each other thru the crisis facing us all. HUNGER and POVERTY are close freinds. I hope I am there to help you all when you need it soon. Pray and hold family close and enjoy what you have for now.
Only in this part of the country where a certain sect has so many people hoodwinked do they promote “food storage”. It’s such a stupid concept but these people follow along like sheep to the slaughter house stocking up their homes like a nuculear holocaust is soon upon us. Said sect has been promoting this practices for decades and how often had people had to use these stockpiles of food? Never. Oh they use the food alright, but only because the food will spoil if they don’t.
“Hunger & poverty are close” my #$@! Enough of your doom and gloom mentality Future is dark, we get enough of that garbage from the evening news. Maybe YOUR future is dark, but mine is bright and sunny. If people like Future is dark and Rod would stop overpopulating our world by having 5 or more children you wouldn’t have this problem and you wouldn’t need to “stockpile food”. I’m 63 years old and never in my life have I run out of food and needed to rely on a stockpile of canned and dried goods to feed my family of 4.
“future is dark” . . . I think your logic is misplaced….it appears you are arguing that some apocolyptic event will cause us all to need to rely on the government for our food. at some point in the future, and that somehow puts us all on the same “food stamps” entitlement mentality, making the same poor choices as the gentleman who relies on the government to feed his family of 8, a family he chose to bring into this world….
do you see that what several of us are saying is that right now it is irresponsible to have 6 children if you can’t even feed yourself? and that has nothing to do with some mythical time when we will be reduced to living in a government sponsored commune or something/??
I was expecting that answer from some people. Especialy the unprepared. Do not worry several families will be ready to feed your family because you werent prepaired. I will pray for you both I hope you prosper and have a fruitfull depression and find ways to make it with out planning ahead.
I also think you folks just say mean things to people because you are worried about the near future. You should fear it and you should imbrace God and family. They are all you really have in this world to lean on during a time of struggle. The economy is real bad right now people are buying food like there wont be a tomorrow. I went to wallmart in Pocatello and the shelves in several lanes had been cleared out by eager shoppers getting ready for the worst. I saw this at Ridleys too. I have heard reports from other cities the same is happening there too. It will not matter how much money you have if the food isnt there to buy. As far as the comment you made about never having to support your family from stored food. There has never been an aconomic crisis as bad as this ever in history. A smaller one caused the depression. Sit back and watch history ungold and do nothing your family will suffer and shed tears because you did nothing. And once again society is feeding someone else that couldnt feed them selves.
Now you’re just being ridiculous Future is Dark. We’re not running out of food and the shelves aren’t bare. Wake up and smell the religous cult that has you brainwashed! Do you know how long people have been saying “the end is near”? Longer than any of us have been alive. And no, our economic “crisis” we’re in right now isn’t as bad as the media makes it out to be so drop it with the whole “sky is falling” mentality.
Nobody is “being mean”, we’re just being realistic and at the same time chuckling at people like you who fall prey and then spread this doom and gloom BS across internet blogs.
The last few comments are violating rule #7 with what doing just fine said about a certain sect and with what the future is dark is saying about God and praying for everyone isn’t it? This thread is about food stamps not food storage or preparedness.
I don’t think saying a certain sect of people storing food is in violation of site rules. It may be off topic a bit though. Saying that God is involved may be a slight violation but I don’t think it’s hurt anyones feelings. Porter is correct, perhaps we could get this train back on track.
I’ve always thought far too many people take advantage of the food stamp program when many can simply work a little harder to improve their own situations at home and at work.
It seems to me that both sides have a little bit of truth on their side. For example, don’t count on the government to take care of you. Hurricane Katrina proved that real well. People who stock up are to be commended, not condemned. How stocking up hurts anoyone is beyond me.
As for the gloom and doom, there are certainly alot of events to be worried about. It’s merely opinion….don’t get too wound up about it.
I agree Bundy, both sides do have a bit of truth but then we have your extremists like dark future here. It’s one thing to “stock up” for a Hurricane and it’s another to tell people we’re “running out of food”. I’ve been through my fair share of hurricanes and I never had to keep any more than a weeks worth of water and non-perishable food items in my home. I went through Hurricane Katrina when it blew through S.FL before hitting New Orleans and was without power for 2 weeks. Gas stations and grocery stores bare, but as with this hurricane and the dozens of others I’ve been through, fuel, water and food supplies were all readily available within days of the storm passing. (a week max, during Hurricane Andrew things were a little more scarce) Even though many people were without power, all of the main grocery chains were running on backup generators and food was readily available.
The problem New Orleans had was the levees breaking and flooding the city, in which case food, fuel and water would have taken much longer to arrive regardless. With that being said, those that failed to evacuate were the ones that suffered the most. During every hurricane when officials tell you to evacuate you need to evacuate. Half the city did not heed these warnings. They also tell you that those that stay behind are “on their own”. Then the folks that didn’t evacuate complained when help didn’t arrive soon enough.
Even though I do believe relief was slow to arrive after this storm, people were warned and told to evacuate well in advance but didn’t. And those are the ones I have a hard time feeling sorry for.
I just think it’s wrong for mr dark future here to tell everyone we’re running out of food and the shelves are bare at grocery stores in our area and in stores across the country when thats simply not true.
It is also my opinion that the type of food storage people do around here is completely unnecessary. We don’t live in an area prone to natural disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, etc etc. While I can appreciate those people that want to prepare themselves for hard times, or in the event of an emergency, it’s not necessary to the extent that many people go to around here. (again, just my opinion) Even if we had a terrible blizzard which would be the worse thing that would likely happen around here, supplies would be readily available within days. And most people have at least a few days worth of food aleady in their homes.
Bundy, you mentioned there were alot of events we should be worried about. Would you mind elaborating on that? Our economy is tight right now we can all agree on that, but aside from that? This is an inherent problem with America today. We don’t appreciate what we have especially when people all over the world are living (most quite happily) with much less. We’ve got too many people living beyond their means in this country and then they expect a handout (or bailout) when times get a little tough. But that’s a whole other story for another topic.
Okay, I can’t help it. I have to say something. Once upon a time I was just like everyone else on this blog. Boo who to the poor. Get off your rear and get a job. Any job is better than none! Do away with all the assistance I would say. Of course at the time I made exceptionally good money and didn’t care about others welfare. I figured that most people on assistance were just lazy and didn’t want to work. However, times have changed for myself and I am now on public assistance. It’s not that I don’t work, because I do. I work and take 12 college credits a semester and I still can’t make a living. I went from making $3,000 a month to $1,200 a month. You tell me how to put a roof over my head, food on the table, daycare, and a car to drive on that amount of money? It’s not easy. Why the difference? Because of lack of jobs, bad economy, amount of competition for open jobs, & a decrease in pay by employers. Does this mean I quit trying? No, but I am going to take full advantage of the system until I am able to figure away out of the mess I’m in or the economy gets better. Trust me, I had some help getting into this mess, it wasn’t on my own. I place blame on our legal system and the amount of time it takes them to enforce laws, such as child support. A year and half later and almost $10,000 in attorney fees and my ex still doesn’t have to pay. So yeah, I’m all about fixing the system, not adding to the problem. Child support enforcement and educational opportunities should help the situation.
America is bankrupt. We just can’t admit it yet. We also can’t and won’t admit that we can’t keep paying entitlement benefits.
Ray , I applaud you and your effort, keep going. The difference between you and others is that you are working your way out of needeing the assistance, to others it is a way of life and their career. I will gladly support you and your effort during your time of need but do not support those who , because of their lack of work eithic and their lazy attitude, expect and feel they’re entitled to free handouts without any effort on their part.
Here’s an idea…don’t get divorced or have kids out of wedlock. Your problem Ray, not mine…and who’s paying for it?
Marcus, you are indeed refreshing. . . .while we all wish Ray well, I agree with the “personal responsibility” angle as well as the long-dormant notion that we all make choices in our lives; some good, some less so. . . . .
I’ve had to use food stamps on and off and I also agree with what is said. I gained a lot of weight from my sudden increase of sugar and soda intake. Part of the reason I bought so much soda was to take back bottles for cash because the cash didn’t cover even the rent which was only $550. I had to do 40 hrs of training and job search activity, but it wasn’t like I had a real job where I was getting excersize. It was also more stressful than just returning to work, thus feeding my desire to drink more pop and eat snacks.
My business pretty much made enough to get by and by food that was healthier but once I lost a major contract abruptly to a larger company, it was like a circle of hell. I can’t tell you how many times I wanted to commit suicide. All of a sudden I was a non smoker and drinker and trying to deal with the loss of my last home (last time I didn’t know about foodstamps but the economy was good enough that I could go bankrupt and move and get back to work at a lower wage).
The thing that a lot of people don’t understand is that people on foodstamps are YOU. WE WERE YOU. We looked at people the same way. All of a sudden they can’t afford soap until they work for the state for at least two weeks. Trying to avoid being homeless, although a lot of them ARE homeless. I remember the stories of people as I sat in line to see what I could get for my family.
Now back to the subject, I agree they could regulate/push a healthier diet. The funny thing is, once I did get a job it paid like $5.50/hr and I went through the line at the store and heard someone talking about me saying why don’t I get a job.
I can’t wait until all of you who are putting down these poor people find yourself in the checkout line and pull out an EBT card and see the look on everyone’s face as if you are less than.
Now jealousy is one thing, but ignorance is another. You will all be there, this economy is coming down hard. Luckily, I don’t need foodstamps any more because I borrowed money from a friend to get a CDL. But without that, I don’t think I could stand the humiliation any longer. Nobody even asks you how you end up on foodstamps or has any sympathy.
Pathetic how we act towards our fellow men..
I don’t mind when people whip out their EBT card, because lets face, there are quite a few of them in this town. What I don’t like is seeing 4-5 kids in tow and a basket full of junk food. When that happens I have EVERY right to look down on you because it’s ME who’s footing the bill to feed you and your family. So when you continue to make bad choices like having children you can’t afford and feeding them junk food when you should be buying healthier alternatives, yes, it bothers me. We hear the same tired story about how much more expensive healthy food is and I don’t believe it. You can purchase healthy food and feed you family for a much longer period of time as opposed to the sugary garbage I see in most EBT payers grocery carts. Thats what bothers me most.
But good luck with your CDL. You’ve taken the first step towards improving your life and that’s always nice to read about.
Personally, I’d starve before getting food stamps. My kids wouldn’t, but I would.
You must not have been trying hard enough. Driving a truck wasn’t your only option. Pity me doesn’t work in the real world.
First, nobody paid for my assistance, i paid in taxes over 23 years. You don’t even know taxes until you own a business. Now on to the rest.
Driving a truck wasn’t my only option, i was working as a janitor to get by until I went to CDL school. And it’s one of the best jobs out there. Too bad you are looking down your nose at truck drivers and making snive comments. You haven’t lived until you’ve seen the country like I have. The only down side is the expense of not being able to come home and eat, shower, etc. You have to pay just to take a shower, unless you stop at truck stops with the same names as where you fueled. I probably wont drive a truck all my life, because it is hard being away from the family but it will help me get where I need to go.
And I did starve before getting food stamps. I was just saying, it was hard not to replace cigarettes and drinks with sugar and other junk. Eventually, I got on medication because I had serotonin syndrome, which you can die from in some cases. I eventually got on a diet of vegatables, and watched my omega 3s and 6s, began to excersize more, and got out of the rut I was in.
I had worked two jobs for 15 years, meaning 7 days a week. I was looking back on how easy it was to get a job and switch whenever there was a slowdown or layoff. But in the last 5 years or so, the places i worked in are abandoned buildings. Like I said during the time my contract ended, I paid the rent and a few things then I was broke. Not even a full tank of gas. I didn’t have a lot of options. I had to make sure my family of four was taken care of. i didn’t live off welfare all my life.
When I was growing up, it was more common to look at welfare and food stamp recipients and abusing the system, but there is no welfare today. In Michigan, you are not given a dime until you complete training and show them every reason you have to need assistance. You must not have anything. And we didn’t. I also applied at so many places I can’t believe it. Every interview I had was about how many people they had to go through before they could let me know. I remember a time when I could just show up and ask if they were hiring, and tell them I’m available now and even “tonight” and I would fill the app out, sometimes even talk with someone, take a tour and talk a start date.
I’ve worked and paid taxes for 23 years, I don’t think I need to really account to someone on the internet but it seems like people are looking at this all wrong. People who had kids probably had the money to have the kids at one time. They didn’t sign up for food stamps then have the kids. Have you ever talked to these people that annoy you so much? Ask them how they are and why they decided to have a lot of kids? You have options to be nice to people and stop drawing your own conclusions.
One thing i see differently now and have been distracted from is that foodstamps are driving the economy. If all that “junk” doesn’t move off the shelves, there’s not as many loads going out. People should make healthy choices, but I assume the gov’t sees it this way also. There has to be a good reason. And I have experience in this so I thought I would share. Even people that have great jobs are making poor decisions, but also buying junk in both forms of food, goods, services, and cars that keep me busy. I’ve delivered everything from bottled water to HDTVs. I’ve taken loads and loads of cereal to wal marts. I’ve also carried this thing I like to call poison which is Budweiser. I am totally against drinking, however it drives the economy. People consume all kinds of stuff that I disagree with but I think they will learn on their own what is bad for them when thye look in the mirror, or through the bars.
In the meantime, there’s no reason I can’t ask Joe 6 pack a little about himself and get a clue about why he is an alcoholic. Maybe he needs someone who has been there. Not someone posting about how they hate watching people come to the store and just buy alcohol on a Tuesday.
will somebody remove that soapbox please, I’m beginning to tear up.
Ugh, I’ve got nothing against truck drivers…was merely stating that you didn’t have to get that CDL to turn a buck. There are a lot of options out there.
I have 3 kids, a wife, and a mortgage. I know what it’s like to pay the bills on one full time and one part time income…and it can be done without assistance. There is no way to fail in this country unless you are either actively trying to fail or make a long string of very bad decisions with credit…and even at that, it’s hard to fail.
Pity me elsewhere please. Joe Workin’ Man doesn’t want to hear it.
So how long have you worked at the job you are at? What is it? If you have had to switch jobs, how many times have you had to move? What kind of tests have you passed to become an expert on this subject? Because you sound like someone that hasn’t been through many layoffs or hard times. My experience is that people that give me advice about raising kids, don’t have kids and people that give me advice about jobs have never worked anywhere else in the past 10 years or so or are in the same field.
I probably needn’t worry again, I’m in the group who will be in the same field of transportation for many years to come. I don’t really feel the effects of the economy like I used to. But to think myself better and look at people on foodstamps trying to get on their feet is just godless for lack of a better word. You don’t work harder than I do, deserve a nickname neither does Joe the plumber. Sounds like you need to get to know your fellow man better if you think because you would never need assistance, nobody should. How can you think you represent every possible situation, that’s jusr receding.
As I have glanced over the posts I have noticed individuals criticizing others for the size of families they have, and their lack of foresight in planning for these children. I find this extremely concerning for several reasons
Right now we are facing a mushrooming aging population, with the number “workers” being overwhelmed with the task of supporting the number of retirees. To assume that we need EVERYONE to limit his or her family size is not necessarily the right answer.
Right now the average family size is something like 2.5 kids, which means that the looming problem with supporting our aging population is just getting worse, as we have moved from large families to small families too fast to be comfortable.
Anyone who wishes to raise a large family, AND who is capable of providing those children with a good work ethic should be allowed to do so without criticism, regardless of their perceived poverty in doing so. A large family man could be viewed as “family rich,” and “money poor.”
Taking steps to make sure that we have financial stability before having children may mean that we are in our 40s before we actually have children. I don’t know about all of you but I want to be able to play with my teenagers without breaking my bones. We cannot wait until we are financially stable before having children. Unfortunately, there will be those that despite their best efforts fail. We as a nation and a community cannot criticize others for thinking that they can succeed, having children, and then failing to be able to take care of them.
Peradventure the topic needs to return back to Food stamps, and not he criticism of others personal, and religious convictions. –Corey (Please forgive my questionable grammatical capabilities)
I’ve worked at my current job for the past two years. Prior to that I worked at a cabinet shop for a week, KIFI for nine months, Sears for two weeks, KIDK for a year and Center Partners for a month. I’ve been married for three years, two kids for two of them, three for this past year. My wife and children are the most important people in my life, and for their well-being I would do anything.
I understand that times are tough, they’re tough for all of us…but it’s no reason to ask for government assistance. We need government to back off and get out of our lives in order to better ourselves as a nation of free people…instead, we’ve got a bunch of folks jumping on the social program bandwagon and dragging us down.
Fight for you and yours, stop telling yourselves that because you’re feeding your children with government money you’re being an honorable people. If you were truly honorable, you’d be working 15 hour days at whatever you could get just to put food in their bellies and a roof over their heads.
Nobody is talking religious convictions here Cory so I don’t know where you dug up that garbage. And I’ve never understood the “2.5″ kid business. How does one have a half a kid, please explain that one to me. The fact is, around here we’ve got kids barely out of high school with 2-3 children and many people in their mid to late 20’s with 4-5 kids. I’m not telling anyone when to have children, but why make it hard on yourself and your children if you can’t provide for them?
I also know dozens of people in their early 30’s who are financially stable and if you think you’re going to “break a bone” at 40 or 50 out there playing with your kids, you’ve got unrelated issues that need attention and that have nothing to do with your age.
And in case you haven’t been paying attention, large families and food stamps go hand in hand so we are pretty much right on topic
(1) It is difficult to say if your question about 2.5 was serious or sarcastic. There are three kids of averages, the mean, median, and mode. The 2.5 is the arithmetic mean or the “standard” average, often simply called the “mean”. The mean is not necessarily the same as the middle value (median), or the most likely (mode). For example, mean household size is skewed downwards by families who cannot have any children so that the majority has more children than the mean. By contrast, the median household size is the level at which half the population is below and half is above. The mode household size is the most likely size of family. The median or mode are often more intuitive measures of such data, and therefore there are those who “don’t get” the 2.5 number.
(2) Religiosity, morality, and ethics are usually inter-connected, and family size often is a decision that is at least influenced by our religiosity and morality. Therefore digging up religious convictions is not irrelevant, nor is it garbage.
(3) There is not a statistically significant relationship between income and family size. In other words, family size has nothing to do with how much money we make. Unfortunately when the young mother who left her kids home uses her food stamps, we generally don’t notice. But when the young mother who brought her 4 NOISY kids with her to the grocery store, we do notice, and over time we gain a false impression that families that use food stamps have large noisy families.
(4) Finally Thomas Jefferson once said, anything worth saying is worth exaggerating. The “40 year old” thing, was meant to be just that, a little bit of an exaggeration to drive home a point: We don’t want to put off everything until it’s a “sure thing.” If we were to do this, we would never get anything done.
I have been on diisability for quite a few years. No one in my town looks down on me for having a quest card.
My 2 kids were adopted out as babies due to me being immature in my mind. I have tryed to get a part time job many times but, when i go to burger king ect… a person with down syndrome will wait on me but, when i apply for a job there i get turned down every time. I do work part time at a theatre now. before that i had 23 different volunteer jobs before my boss felt i was worthy to be hired and get paid for it. and i look as normal as anyone else. Now i have some hope!
Good for you Carla; sounds like you are trying to put your life together in a positive, self-sufficient eay.
have you ever considered going to school to learn a trade? government loans and grants are easy to get and readily available to all. good luck to you.
has anyone ever watched the movie idiosynracy? i think that is how it is spelled, stars luke wilson i think.
Its about how in the future everyone will be stupid because the only ones breeding will be the trailer trash, teen girls with kids by all number of dads, while the others who wait they can afford kid find out it is too late.
Its worth viewing just to see how this dumb kind of movie is so accurate.
I have worked with people who are on food stamps, can afford their rent for the lot their trailer is on, although they do have the latest playstation, wii or whatever and digital camera with a printer etc etc……….and they want to have 4 kids together, that will make six for the mother, who’s other 2 kids are with the dads family.
i meant to say cant afford to pay the rent
But this is a major problem with todays society. Consume consume consume, but nobody talks about saving money for when times get tough. People over extend themselves with high car payments because they have to have a brand new car every couple years, the latest and greatest cell phone, video games, gadgets, etc. Then when times get tough they can’t afford to support themselves or their familes because they’ve been too busy spending instead of saving. So many people are blaming Bush for our economy, when in fact it’s America’s fault for not living within their means.
Rhonday, the movie you’re looking for is “Idiocracy”.
It’s one of the dumbest movies I’ve ever seen, but it’s really funny and we’ve watched it several times. It’s also one of the scariest movies I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a LOT of scary movies.
The theory behind this movie makes perfect sense, and I hope we figure that out before it’s too late. Just watch the movie and you’ll see what I mean.
….scary.
This is too funny. Majority of you in hear love to point fingers and judge and scrutinize those who are on public assistance. You are quick to judge, but can any one of you say that you know every single person on food stamps and how they live? Can any one of you honestly say that you know for a full fact that all persons on food stamps neglect the privilege? You can not, and you will never know. The facts that you go by are physical appearance and a friend of a friend. Not every one abuse food stamps, not everyone deserves to be on food stamps. If you were a logical thinker you would know that life really blows right now and things are not getting easier. Have you ever thought of how it felt to be on the other end of the conversation here? Do you know how it feels to have absolutely nothing and watch others buy basic necessities for survival knowing damn well you couldn’t afford a loaf bread let alone a pkg. of toilet paper? Can you honestly sit here and say that if you had the chance to receive food stamps you wouldn’t go and buy the name brand meats and cheeses at the store?? You can’t say that you wouldn’t because it is in our nature to want what we can’t have. If you were dirt broke and came into a lot of money are you going to sit down and say “well I could pay down my debt” or are you going to go and by yourself something you normally couldn’t afford”. Give me a break here people, every one takes advantage of something in life, sometimes it is food stamps, sometime its people, and sometimes it is your self. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and live you life. Complaining about how people spend their food stamps is a waist of your time, unless you wish you had them yourself and hate those who do because you don’t. Seriously man, it isn’t any of you damn business in the first place. How would you like it if someone came up to you and told you that you don’t spend your pay check wisely???? You’d probably get really pissed because it isn’t anyone’s business to tell you how to run your life. Get off your high horse here and use logic.
Well, I’ll be…
Just clicked on this topic to see why it keeps jumping back up on top. After reading the whines and poor me’s, I thought I’d better read the rest of the the read to comprehend that last author’s full whine; then I thought again; NO FLIPPIN’ WAY!
Dear Jenny, folks who pay taxs like to have a say in where their tax money is going and how it is spent. On the other hand, other folks have no bizness telling them how to spend their legally and hard earned dollar: As long as they are paying their bills and taking care of their responsibilities.
Now you have yourself a better than good ol’ Happy Thanks Giving. GIVE a lot, take only what you need.
Jenny, you are an ignorant, greedy, socialist fool. Yes, I realize that that doesn’t make much sense, but many of the fools vying for socialism are only looking for a socialist system because it provides something to them for nothing…thus the greed.
What we need is a government that will “get the hell out of our grill” as far as “financial fairness” to the population as a whole goes. We need people to realize that natural selection is real, and it’s not the government’s job to select those that get help. Privately funded initiatives are great, they can exercise their judgment as much as they want…it’s when government puts out a program to benefit society by their conditions without my input (which I should have, I have stake in it) that it bothers me.
Let people fail, if they want to succeed they will. Don’t buy people food, teach them to produce and gain food…or let them starve. Nobody will learn without a consequence, and “work and provide for your family or get free food stamps” does not jive as a negative consequence. Work and provide for your family or starve…now that would generate visible results.
Don’t continue to give our rights away. With every program that is administrated by the government, we lose a bit of our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We’re close to losing it. Let’s stop while we’re ahead.
marcus you accuse so many people of socialism……anyone who doesnt agree with you that is………do you believe in survival of the fittest? all of those severely mentally handicapped people who cant think for themselves or do anything for themselves, those old people in nursing homes paid for by the state, the people with a severe case of ms……..should we put them all on a guerny and give them a lethal injection and put them out of their and your misery……..or it would be cheaper to dump them on the street and let them die, at least you wouldnt have to pay for that with your taxes!! I’ll not judge you on your answer……..i’ll let others decide that………i’d really like to hear your thoughts on this
Not anybody that doesn’t agree with me, but people that want to be given a free ticket by the government. Let the government take care of it, we’ll be alright.
I’m not a humanitarian, I have very little regard for people outside of my circle of friends and family. If you are inside that circle, I will take care of you if necessary. Outside that circle? Somebody else will step up or you will fend for yourself. I’m not a fan of state/federally funded health care. Private, they can do what they want. I’ll have a choice of who gets my donation.
you didnt have the decency to answer that question directly did you………..IM NOT TAKING A FREE RIDE, I PAY FOR WHAT I HAVE, but god help the less fortunate if everyone was like you!!
The world is better off without 20 something year olds like you, who spout their nazi propaganda.
you sicken me, with your arrogant attitude….pride comes before a fall, remember that when youre 40 and still studying for your generals, taking care of your teenage kids babies, and something bad befalls you…….take it with your pride then
I think I answered adequately.
Tiger lily – chill out for a minute. It’s pretty obvious from your posts you’re experiencing some major personal and financial stress right now, and screaming at strangers on a blog isn’t going to solve it. You’re only getting angrier with every post. Maybe taking a break from the internet and doing something else with your time and children will give your mind the break it seems to need right now. Good luck.
reader – I think I may need to take your advice too.
Have a great Thanksgiving folks!
Happy Turkey day to all too. I’m giving out advice I regularly apply to myself when needed!
“At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,” said the gentleman, taking up a pen, “it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”
“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.
“Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
“And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
“They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.”
“The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge.
“Both very busy, sir.”
“Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”
“Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,” returned the gentleman, “a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?”
“Nothing!” replied Scrooge.
“You wish to be anonymous?”
“I wish to be left alone,” said Scrooge. “Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas, and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.”
“Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.”
“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. … It’s enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people’s. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!”
reader, im not experiencing any problems financial or otherwise, never needed food stamps, dont have kids ……my anger is directed at that person called marcus because of his nazi like attitude
and my reference to the teenage kids’ kids is a idea of what self righteous marcus’s life will turn out like
tiger, you obviously don’t know what you’re spouting off.
Taken from this Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism:
Nazism, a short name for National Socialism[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.[5][6][7][8]
The Nazi Party emerged from socialism. Was based on socialism. I most certainly am not a Nazi.
As for my teenage children having kids – life is what it is sister, and what happens happens. It will be dealt with, and my family will get through it. At this point in my life I’m nowhere near well-off financially, but I make the monthly bills. I take money out of my wallet and pay for food to enter my kids’ bellies. If worst came to worst, I’d be eating saltines and the rest of my family would be taking in a balanced diet.
This is life, it’s not fair, it’s not convenient. I am not immune, and I am certainly not living high on the hog. It’s been a hell of a bumpy road for my wife and I, and the only assistance we have had in the past three years (which ceased in May) was the WIC program. I guess you can add the spotty child support payments from my step-son’s biological father too.
In the end, we take our lumps and roll with them. If we had lived our lives together up to this point being dependent on other, I have no doubt that we’d be worse off now than we are.
Also, to touch on the mentally and physically handicapped & the dependent old.
The Old: Parents raise children and help them through their early years. The adult offspring then step up to the plate when mommy and daddy aren’t quite up to snuff to help them on their way out of this world. Fact of life. It disgusts me that adults pawn their parents off on the state to live the remainder of their life in a white-walled loveless room.
The Mentally & Physically Disabled: Another one of those lumps you take when it comes. If your child is disabled, you take care of him/her until/unless they reach a point that they can take care of themselves. If they don’t reach that point, you continue to take care of them because it is your duty as a parent.
If you think I’m a horrible person, so be it, but just because your lazy humanitarian ass doesn’t want to put in the physical effort to help somebody out (keep sending the checks) doesn’t mean that I don’t contribute to other peoples lives through actions. You can go straight to whatever hell you hold if that’s the case…don’t expect me to help you through your problems in a way that money can’t.
excuse me, im far from being a lazy ass. you are a really rude person, typical of you to denounce someone to go to hell…….and let me set you straight on something.
The name National Socialist is a misnomer since the Nazis were an ultra right wing political organisation…modern socialism which leans to the left, the Nazis were not.
Unlike russia there was private property , and the nazis did support a corporate sector. The fact that i dont want to live in a communist country, and the private property and corportations, im down with that……. because i have some compassion for people doesnt make me a bad person, because im fine with some of my taxes going to it doesnt make me a communist. You however are to the extreme, and by me telling you that you have a nazi attitude…….ok dont agree……but dont tell me that the ultra right wing nazi party is a socialist party…..check your facts
My point was that the Nazi Party emerged from socialism. Be it liberal or “right wing”, socialism ruins nations.
Oh, hey-hey-hey, and tense the flip down. The two of you, Marcus and Tiger L., share in common that you’re taking your emotions to the extreme; even if on opposite sides of the issue.
The truth is you can argue all you want, but government assistance for those in need (some of them, those that qualify) is here to stay. The original question of this thread didn’t ask whether or not we should help them in need, or how we should determine who and when to help them. The thread author simply asked if it was time to “re-think” food stamps?
It appeared to me that the author was suggesting we somehow teach those receiving food stamps food shopping common sense, or police their grocery shopping activities. But I don’t believe either of those solutions are available. Still, thousands of persons do need and deserve the help of food stamps. Some will abuse that help. Lots of well respected, working folks park in handicapped parking spaces because they’ll only be in the store for a minute and there isn’t anywhere else to park.
People abuse their power, their legal allowances, their financial assistance, their family, etc. Not everyone, but he that hasn’t sinned, let him teach food stamp recipients how to shop.
And everyone else clean-up yer own acts before smearing the unfortunate circumstances of others.
Oh, and Happy Thanks Giving!
Thank You GOD for all those who volunteered time, food, money, and other resources to feed those who might not have otherwise shared in the feast of thanks for this, our great Country.
Amen
Imagine how boring this, or any conversation, online or otherwise, would be if we all held the same opinions.
I am thankful to live somewhere where we can argue like cats and dogs and still hold our own opinions and not have to be sucked into some bland collective.
Have a great weekend!
Your friend has been abandoned by her child’s father and is now left to do it all by herself. All you can think about is that you’re disgusted by her being excited about eating a shrimp dinner? Bleeding heart? No, honey, please don’t group yourself with amazing people that are actually concerned about other people’s hurt and happiness.
um, “lydia”, you are addressing JeremyPlo who left this site some time ago.
Has the state always allowed people to purchase cigarettes on their Qwest cards? What’s weird is I’ve seen this happen twice in the past week. The person purchased nothihng else but a couple of packs of cigarettes and paid for them with his Qwest card. I personally don’t think we as taypayers should be footing the bill for somebody elses bad habits like alcohol & tobacco products.
doesnt child support come via a quest card? maybe im wrong, but if that is correct, then i think the person can choose to buy what they want with their child support
I think you’re right…my mistake!! (don’t they use a card for food stamps too that’s blue and white?)
I think you “can” use a quest card for any deposit coming from the state, but you can also have it deposited directly into your bank account. Why that matters, I don’t know. Child support is kind of silly in my eyes, and to be buying smokes with it isn’t any better than trading food stamps for smokes…
What do you mean that child support is silly?
Uh oh.. looks like a nerve has been hit! Oh wait, I think it was a major artery!! Crash cart STAT!! We’re losin him Doctor! beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep TOD 8:30am.
what are you talking about? child support is kind of silly……..ok let me get this clear…..we dont want people to be supported in anyway by your tax payer money, they should be supporting themselves, i think you said let them starve……and now you are saying obviously paying child support for your offspring is silly?
silly? silly?
you sound like the one playing god and sticking your nose in people’s business……..oh but you arent the government, so that’s ok?
I dont have my own agenda here to defend because i dont and wont have or want kids, and i dont smoke…..but how dare you suggest that people now cannot do what they want with earned cash albeit coming from your ex spouse!!
I’m not saying, have a party and blow all your child support on drugs and alcohol, but you need to take a good look at yourself and realise what a self righteous person you are.
LOL
I’m really not trying to stir any crap up around here.
Child support is silly because, in my experience, it is un-enforceable (for the most part). Have you ever spoken to the folks at the Child Support Office?
Really, if you’re going to have kids, you should be ready to support the child without the state telling you to support the child. Mom knew what she was getting in to when she pulled up her skirt just as well as dad did when he dropped his drawers.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the premise, and child support should be paid to the child, but to buy smokes with child support money is an injustice to your child. If you don’t have anything better to buy with the child support money than smokes, you should be putting it away in a college fund for your child. If you’re buying smokes with child support, and your kid isn’t being adequately taken care of, your child should be assigned to a family that will adequately take care of him/her and support from both parents should go to the family that adopted the child.
Sure, I’m self righteous…but it’s how I make it through each and every day with a positive outlook on my life. If other people don’t need that, more power to them.
Again, not trying to stir crap up.
It’s enforced in a number of states. If you get behind in your child support they’ll take your drivers license away. And if you still dont get caught up you get thrown into the county jail. Then the state will garnish your wages and the money will automatically come out of your paycheck each payday. There are ways to enforce it, I just think some states are more lenient than others. I think it should be enforced by the state because unfortunately we have too many deadbeat dads out there. On the same token, we also have too many people who won’t use birth control. Which is why we have so many single mothers to begin with.
Agreed. Though the real deadbeats can’t be garnished.
Good point.
I think the problem extends beyond birth control too…too many youngins won’t stop spreading their legs when they aren’t ready for responsibility. Birth control fails, not giving it up doesn’t.
The child support issue is a very ugly one, because there are so many variables in… well, humans.
I’ve seen remarried women in very good financial situations squeezing their children’s fathers for support to the point that the father’s new families went without. On the other hand I’ve seen fathers making good money simply fall into loopholes and deny their children any support while the mothers did what they could to survive.
Then I’ve seen couples split amicably and manage to provide for their children regardless of the state laws.
If people would just be decent, we wouldn’t have to have these laws, but a lot of them are not. I don’t believe that taking someones license away if they don’t pay is the answer, as it makes it very hard to work to pay the support, but I dont’ know what the answer is.
As usual, you make a bunch of sense Alice!
I can tell everyone right now, disbanding something because of a few bad people. Two or more people anger you, doesnt mean everyones that way. It’s jealousy. You may be sitting there wondering why your working your butt off and having to punish your self and someone else supposedly poor is buying these things; havent you made similar purchases you shouldnt have, take out. every one does it, and if that person wasnt poor theyll probably be doin it for their own money still. so calm down. I can tell you right now food stamps only cover food and only a couple of places take them. Foodstamps are not that great, and i always see people buying the generic stuff, so i dont know what you people are saying, and their taking it on the bus home, while im sure you guys have cars, most of you at least. There are adults who cant even afford insurance on cars and stay on buses for the rest of their lives. while your complaining about food MOST of these people are struggling. The food is like the only thing to splurge on. NOT permitting in, but people cant help themselves sometimes. Also the whole steralization thing is so stupid and misguided. People dont enjoy bringing children and not being able to afford it. Thats rare to me, sorry.. it doesnt happend like state statistics say. It just doesnt… There may be some mental problem with the girl, either she thinks its going to keep a boyfriend or she doesnt do abortion. Its not that they dont practice safe sex if they arent with someone, its most due to keeping the child and not giving it up for adoption, no matter how practical it is. THere more in touch with spirituality and believe it as a blessing. ANd its exaggerating talking about over breeding.. THats prevalent in middle class people too. Now if you think these people buying ciggarettes and beer is irresponsible because those arent necessities. I know MIDDLE class peoPle owing overdue bills, has two mortgages, going on vacations, spending alot of money on cars, and tvs and decorating.. I grew up in an urban city but associate with all kinds of people, doctors, suburban middle class people, struggling artists, and students and they all want food stamps. Now whether your able to get it is hard, i know so many poor people who arent qualified. Yes more people should be allowed to be on it, oh and some one said something about taxes, hac=ving to support these people; they pay taxes to and I cant stand when my checks are 298.03 turned 199, that was alot of hours. NOw I get more but im still rediculously broke. I wear glasses with a heavy perscription and was just able to purchase them through my insurance that took me forever to get. I WALKED AROUND BLIND. Decided to spend my money on contacts because the appointment was only 75, and a box was only 17. After someone lent me money my appointment was 120, and was trying to make me pay 241, for glasses i picked the 70 dollar frames (that was the cheapest) and the rest was the payment for the lens. I never had enough for food. I could only get like bagels, yogurt, cereal, sometimes meat every week. I remember being so hungry u would get flustered, headaches, dizziness that a can of beans don solve. I grew p with som many medical problems due to starving, anemia, i even started growing a small goiter in my neck(large growth), from iodine deficiency, only seen in 3rd world countries. It went down, but my mother was too proud to get assistance even though HER HUSBAND my father left her after the last kid, he use to bring once on awhile. like 1 month apart. We would be starving and depressed. I used to feel like throwing up..My mom worked. had mental issues and never bought food. I just ate through friends and my boyfriend. My mother and us would constantly get into drama about food. I even stopped going to school because i was made fun of for eating school lunches and being skinny with beat up shoes and clothes from salvation army. Im sure most of you hadnt had these issues, thats why youre sitting their on your high horse. Shit let them have go crazy on food because their probably at some crappy job, unable to afford school, and feeling like their not going anywhere. There are benefits for a reason, generally we all need them, this country is based on capitalism with vacuum hoses attached TO EVERYBODYS wallets. Its not made for you to live here with a poor backround. I’m talking poor, not why cant i buy dorritoes. Im talking I feel hungry every day. Theres not a enough money in the world to give someone equal opportunities at a quality life and you dont get that much food stamps. Most ive seen with a o job is 50 a month, not a week. Matter of fact that large amount you guys see in carriages at grocery stores, is for a month, because people with these problems dont go to the supermarket every week. So pay attention to the claims you make. I just dont no any body who abuses this. its very hard to get. im telling you, now if it seems like everybody has it I guarantee that lady with the 4 kids is at home sad every day that she cant do for her kids or even hve good life going..NO one wants to be on that ..NO one… it doesnt feel right, you feel like you have no choice. Now when you do start getting your stuff together whenever that is, its taking away. Any small thing raise of two dollars more can disqualify you. Its not easy, and I think everybody should get it, this government has strained us all enough.
WALL OF TEXT
TL;DR
I just realized that most of you aren’t as nerdy as I am.
TL;DR = Too long; didn’t read. More because of the lack of formatting than anything else.
The lack of general punctuation & spelling in that post was astounding, which makes it all the more clear as to why he’s in the position he’s in.
Unfortunately, I have to agree, I couldn’t finish reading that post either…
I do have one bit of input, however, on the actual topic.
I’ve had the unpleasant experience of dealing with food stamps and the resulting humiliation and paperwork nightmare. It’s not fun, but at the time, it was necessary, and I still purchased store brands, because the funds still had to be stretched. I’d like to think that because I did know how to stretch my dollars and shop wisely, I only required the assistance for a short time, and I only applied for my children. I never would have taken them if it was just me.
It seems that along with food stamps it may not hurt to supply some classes on money savvy, Just an idea.
I’m all for teaching above flat-out giving.
Here’s my experience with food stamps. Years ago, I took in a relative with some health issues to raise. Since I could not get legal custody, I could not get her on my insurance, so through necessity I applied for a medical card for her through Medicaid. At the time, (I hope this has changed) I had to apply for food stamps also. I kept telling them that I did not want the food stamps. Their reply: you have to. So, I was approved for the medical card AND food stamps. When they issued me the food stamps, I told them to either keep them or I was going to throw them away. Finally, after practically signing my life away they relented and kept their stamps. This saved me the hassle of having to go through the same procedure every month. I was making a good wage and did not want or need their stamps, but through some odd twist of some law, they seemed to think that to get one (the medical card), I had to have the stamps. Do we need to rethink food stamps? If this same policy is still in effect — yes. A lot of people would have taken the stamps and thought that it was okay.
Also, with the medical card there was no deductible. This encourages people to go to the doctor for every little sniffle, sneeze, or cough.
I read #291. No, it wasn’t easy to read, but the author brings out some pretty salient points to this discussion, the most important one being don’t judge another person until you’ve walked a mile in his/her moccasins. Human tendency is to judge a person as soon as one encounters the person — without knowing any more than what can be observed in just a few moments or minutes mute observation — no interatcion, no communication other than the furtive glances we know we give people we’re embarassed to see in public. I’m as guilty as the next guy in making these kind of idiot instant judgements, where I assume the worst in another person just because I’ve seen them in one unexemplary moment. Then I recall the times I’ve been the idiot in the public place and wonder, do I want people to make judgements about me based on that one isolated incident? No, I don’t. But there are probably many people who have made a negative judgement of me because of one act of stupidity.
We don’t know a person’s circumstances, whether they be on food stamps or whether they be middle-class or whatever ideology or category or niche we choose to file them in. We don’t know unless we talk to them, try to get to know them. But that’s the hard part. Judging is just too easy.
So did I, Bloop. The post by “I hope you get this” (#291) might have been a little long and lacked some punctuation, but I didn’t find it difficult to read; and read the full post.
The lady describes what is probably an extreme of neglect and abuse among single parent families in America; right here in the good ol’ U.S. of A.; right here in Idaho. It’s a very realistic example of why social programs like “food stamps” are needed, and should be used by them who need them.
“I hope you get this,” I hope your general environment, and the situations in your life have greatly improved.
Bless, bless
Sorry, but I don’t have any sympathy for people that she (or he) spoke of. For example, the end of “I hope you get this’s” comment regarding the “woman who sits at home with 4 kids and is sad because she can’t provide a better life for her children”. Perhaps she should have thought about that before she decided to have 4 kids to begin with. Especially without a decent education to support them. There are far too many single mothers in this state (& country for that matter) who can’t afford to take care of themselves, let alone the 3 or 4 kids they decided to have. Birth control would have been much more inexpensive option had she bothered to use the good sense God gave her, rather than have 4 kids and spend her life struggling to support them.
I don’t mean to sound insensitive, I just have a hard time feeling sorry for these people that make bad choices in their lives. Everybody has the ability to improve their lives or the situation their in. But sadly many choose not to and would rather take the easy way out, as opposed to working hard to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves into.
“I hope you get this” may not know of anyone personally that abuses the system, but abuse is rampant and serious changes need to take place regarding this program.
IMO
“I hope you get this,” in addition to speaking of other persons in her family’s situation, spoke of herself and her family when she was a child. Her mother, she and her siblings had been abandoned by their father and dear old mom didn’t apply for food stamps. The woman wouldn’t accept charity even though her children were starving and in need of clothing.
“I hope you get this” is aware of many families who, like her own family, are struggling to exist in desperate, and unplanned for times. Chances are darn good the single parents of those children never planned on raising, feeding, and clothing them alone. That task is nearly impossible for one parent, and difficult enough when two parents are involved.
Sympathy isn’t required in these type of cases because it does nothing to assist those in need. Intelligence, empathy and an occasional helping hand (as is affordable/available) goes a long way to help fill a child’s hungry tummy, and help he or she grow.
Charity is a community service, not a government obligation.
Of course you are right, Mr. Marcus. Remember your words, thoughts and beliefs the next time a damn breaks (Teton Damn “76) wiping out and destroying the homes of thousands of families. Hold on to your pride next time a drought wipes out hundreds or thousands of farmers ability to produce food for millions of people. Keep hold of your shorts and home while proudly feeding your family the last cans of soup in your house after you and thousands of other U.S. citizens have lost their jobs, haven’t found other employment and their unemployment benefits are soon to run out.
Let’s see how long your pride, beliefs and words feed you and your hungry children.
People don’t need to be dependent on the government Wendyjo, not even in the case of a natural disaster. Get off it. If I can’t make a compelling case for help from my fellow countrymen in a time of need, then my family obviously doesn’t deserve the help and we will either sink or swim.
By the way, it’s a dam, not a damn.
Also – I’m sick and tired of people that assume that all people turn in to blithering morons in time of crisis. Why are we helping the morons anyway?
“By the way, it’s a dam, not a damn.”
How’d I know you’d not only pick up on that spelling error but also comment on the error before I uploaded my post, Marcus? Because I’m more than familiar with over judgemental, over opinionated persons like you.
They come in both sexes, all ages, all colors, from all life-styles, all nationalities and neighborhoods. At this time of the year you and they are all called grinches. You want nothing from others but most especially expect to give NOTHING to anybody else. Even if not greedy you are selfish and self absorbed.
You pay taxes for roads to be built. So that those that can afford vehicles, auto insurance, auto up-keep and to also pay taxes can travel the same roads you travel. You pay taxes for police protection against the “bad guys.” Persons addicted to drugs, folks who don’t have jobs and kids out partying when they should be home with their families. You pay taxes for city and county government to decide how you should behave when in public.
Therefore it’s okay and right for you to pass judgement on someone that needs help to feed her or his children. That, or you’re one of the dumbest eggs the Creator ever laid.
You and your’s have yourself a Merry Christmas.
I’m sure you and your children deserve it much more than the many starving children do, here in Bonneville County.
Personally I think there’s a big difference between “natural disasters” and people not being responsible for their everyday actions and decisions, and thus seeking govt assistance. I’ve been through numerous hurricanes, floods, power outages, etc. and I can honestly say that’s it’s simply amazing (and heartwarming) to see everyone come together to help each other. Friends, neighbors and complete strangers helping one another through such a crisis.
But imo, there’s a big difference between that and someone who decides to have 4 children, or someone who decides to forego their education, and/or someone who decides to depend on someone else to take care of them. And than when the bottom falls out because of their bad decisions, require govt assistance. I’m not saying it’s all bad, but too many people take advantage of it and end up depending on it. IMO the welfare system and foodstamp program needs a serious over-haul.
marcus may be having a manic episode right now, you know, where his overinflated ego is all knowing, all powerful and all #@$%ed up. You know, you can get medecine for that!!
Anyway, you got my attention, ive told a few people about the idiot on this site, well really i havent called you an idiot, just a downright nasty person.
Hey guys, please don’t resort to personal attacks. We’ve been doing so well in that department lately.
Lets stick to the topic at hand. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, even if it’s the complete opposite of yours.
Thank you
This is undoubtedly the largest group of sissies that I have ever come into contact with.
“COME HELP US MR. GOVERNMENT!”
Have fun discussing having the government help those that don’t try hard enough to get by, I’ll keep my nose out of the issue from this point forward. If you can’t see further government dependence as a bad deal, you deserve to take the hit when it does come (and it is coming).
The U.S. of A. – helping those that are too stupid and/or lazy to get by on their own efforts since the ’30s!
Orely? You must not travel much or far. Their are large groups of “sissies” all over the world, including right here in Bonneville Co., Idaho. Just ask your neighbors.
Apparently your definition of a “sissie” is a human being in need of help to survive; one who accepts assistance from state or federal government social programs for their survival. Furthermore, a “sissie” would be those who provide such services and them who support their aide.
You defend your callous, and lack of moral comments by claiming persons receiving government assistance for their survival are not trying hard enough to get by. You go on to claim they are lazy and stupid.
I imagine you, like Cr67, would more than understand the government stepping in and handing out benefits to a woman whose husband has just died for her four surviving, under-aged children. You know, monthly S.S. payments for each child until they each reach the age of eighteen.
Yet you dare to call the mother of four children whose husband has left her, who works full-time and can’t make ends meet on her own (without government assistance), a person who is lazy, stupid, and doesn’t try hard enough to get by; as are many, if not most of the persons on social service programs.
Then you run out of the discussion like a mouse running from a trap, saying you’ll keep your nose out of the discussion. Orely?
Certainly you can at least come back at discuss my spelling and other grammatical errors.
Death benefits are stupid too. Wendyjo, I want to see it all go away. If you can’t handle the load, ask for help from friends and family. If they don’t respond, perish. The government has no place in the economic well-being of citizens.
To clarify, I was stating that the people posting on these boards for the continuation of government social programs are a bunch of sissies, regardless of their financial position. You may think you’re being noble by sending tax money in for somebody that couldn’t make it. In reality, you’re giving them the easy way out and not making them work as hard as they need to work to survive. People will not learn unless and until they hit rock bottom if they’re having financial problems, and if we don’t let them hit bottom, they become leeches with entitlement issues.
Why didn’t the single mother who’s husband left her have enough money to bounce back? They were both working, it’s almost impossible not to have two income streams and have more than one or two children in this day and age. She wasn’t putting money away? Oh, she was putting money into our tax system for social programs instead of saving of her own accord? Put more money in the people’s pockets, let us invest it according to our own life plan. I’m not saying I’ll never need help Wendyjo, I am saying that when I need it I’ll have it without running to the state or federal government like a little sissy that didn’t plan for bumps in the road of life.
Our finances, our problem. Pulling the government into that equation is always a mistake.
Wull, crap!
I guess you decided to shove your nose back into the peoples issues, Marcus. And good morning to you, too. No critique of my more than miserable spelling and other D- literary skills? Shame on you.
You sound like a boy who’s been beaten by an over controlling father all his life, Marcus, yet looks up to the sadistic ass. No, no, no, I’m not calling your dad a name, I’m just describing what your limited description of life, and how you believe people should handle it sounds to me.
You sound like a beaten, molded man who is too frightened to break free of the confinements, the only limits he’s ever known. Frankly, Marcus, you sound less than knowledgeable.
Care to back your statements up, maybe give me some examples?
Self reliance is now a weakness? The do-it yourself attitude that my family and I carry will only hinder us? I think you’re the one that doesn’t know what the hell you’re talking about Wendyjo, which is why I opted out of further discussion before. I was stupid to step back into it.
Heh-heh-heh,
You want examples. Ever heard of college grants?
No, I didn’t say loans, not money that had to be paid back, just money that was given to students to get their ed-juu-k-shon. Yes sir, money for free.
Oh! But that’s different! you say, they are getting an education! They’ll soon be working and paying taxes! They’ll be giving back what was given to them!
The single mother raising her children is raising kids who will eventually be working, tax paying Americans. Every one of them deserve every single advantage the college student was given.
Our government is currently rescuing hardworking, never give up, hard working and smart business persons from failing their big, big businesses. Banks and automotive companies are being resuscitated from the big death.
How many more examples do you want, Marcus?
This City, State, Coutry and World works no better than your family does unless it works together. You help each other out, we all help each other out. And when we don’t, we all fail.
Marcus, the government is part of “we.”
No, a government grant for college is not on my list of condoned funding from the government. You think I’m picking and choosing…I want the government out of distribution of our collective wealth altogether. Let them spend it on defense of our nation, law enforcement, judicial system, emergency protection of citizens, national security…but when they start spending it on individuals based on certain financial qualifications, it is wrong. The United States of America was built on individuals rising up and taking a step away from governmental control. By allowing the government to distribute money as charity, we’re allowing the government to control more of our society than our founding fathers ever intended.
I wasn’t asking for examples of how the government is throwing away our money and the future of our kids, I was asking for examples of how I am a “beaten, molded man who is too frightened to break free of the confinements”. What exactly you mean by “beaten by an over controlling father all his life”.
We’re on a path toward socialism and dependence, and when we become dependent on the government, we’ve really lost any and all power that we had to maintain our system. If you’re content with being force-fed this shit, more power to you, but I’m not going to sit back and take it.
This nation was built on the strength of a few, and will fall as a direct result of the dependence of many.
Of course you’re picking and choosing. That’s what you’ve been doing all along, and complaining about at the very same time.
He or she isn’t doing enough to help themselves, their children and their other family. They don’t deserve help. They are lazy and stoopid. You don’t wasn’t your tax $$s helping them out and by golly if the government does help them out you will use your freedom of speech to get yourself a good case of laryngitis!
Not that it will help, the majority rules. Oh, well.
S I G H
Do you really want to talk about … that?
You were raised in a lower middle class home with two working class parents. You were either the oldest of three, or two children, I’m thinking you were the oldest of three boys and your father was a very, very strict man. Chances are the “belt” was not an uncommon form of punishment for minor misbehavior’s but you and your siblings do not use that same discipline with your own children today.
I could go on…
Lower middle class – yes and no, depends on the year.
Strict father – absolutely not. Belt? Never.
One sibling, sister. I am two years her senior.
If you call me calling for the removal of all government social programs picking and choosing, then you’re right on that front. I was stating that I don’t discriminate about which programs should stay – I want them all gone. Therefore, no picking and choosing.
Still at a loss as to why you think my father had to be a strict prick.
marcus, you astound me with your ranting. So i suppose if jobs are lost in the automotive industry, in michigan, which has a lot of economic problems already, those families affected should get no help? You have so little respect for the people of this country, and before you start spouting of that people who accept food stamps have no respect for themselves….(i’m not saying that there isnt a group of people out there who abuse the system)……you are so callous to society as a whole. I have absolutely no respect for your opinions, they do sound like those of a person who doesnt see the big picture. I’ m betting, if it were the case that there were no food stamps, but they received it in a cash sum, you would have suggested “let’s give them vouchers”, so that the money would be spent on food!!!
As people should get no help at all from the government, do you accept for you child credits on your taxes? or do you mail the check back or just even cash it? It seems to me that would be the route someone of your opinion would take!!
Marcus does make a valid point. Where does the govt assistance stop? Everyone is looking for a bailout these days and it’s completely out of control. Why should it be the governments job to bail out companies that failed? Why should the govt bail out people who’s home went into foreclosure? These people purchased a home they couldn’t afford in the first place. What is it with you people and your socialist views? If your business fails too bad. That;’s the price you pay with owning your own company. It’s a risky venture and it’s not up to the government and enevitably the taxpayer to bail out every company that fails in this country, that’s completely unrealistic.
i never said anything about bailing out companies. I’m talking about a helping hand to members of society who do pay taxes and have paid taxes. The big companies that’s another matter…….and wasnt it john mccain who left the campaign trail to go deal with the financial crisis, he supported it, possibly he’s a socialist too.
Why would I scream for them to distribute vouchers when I still felt that it was wrong that these people were receiving help from the government in the first place? Leaps and bounds, not small steps.
Child credits? You mean the money the government pulls out of your paycheck so you’ll have a return come February and it’ll seem like the government is actually giving you money? It’s money that you’ve already earned honey, that they’re not letting you touch until you file income taxes. It’s tax collection insurance for the IRS, don’t let them fool you.
But yes, those are the sort of initiatives that they should leave up to the American people. Do your own investing, administrate your own dollars, set yourself up with an emergency plan…or blow it all on booze, I really don’t care, as long as nobody else is allowed to touch my cache of cash. We would all have more money to invest in ourselves if the government would stop making us throw money their way for social programs that may help us in the future…especially when money goes missing from those buckets yearly.
Let us manage our own expenses and our own investments. That’s what I’m saying. If you’re not smart enough to put money away for the time of crisis, you deserve whatever may happen. Call me callous, but that’s just the way it is.
Tiger Lily, you mentioned the people losing their jobs in Michigan in the auto industry. When you loose your job, there’s something called unemployment that is already in place to help people out until they can find a new job. How much more assistance do you want the govt to provide people that loose their jobs?
Since the dawn of man people have lost jobs. what did they do back then? I can assure you they didn’t whine and complain about somebody giving them a handdout, they went out and found a new job. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
McCain is a moron whether he’s a socialist or not. He was one of two crappy presidential candidates. That’s the end.
you know what, i do put my money away, and yes i’d love it if i didnt have to have money taken from my paycheck to pay for an imoral and uncalled for war in iraq. And honey, im not fooled by the child tax credit, that is a benefit for you, i dont have kids, i dont see me getting an earned income credit, even though i paid taxes!! If you are going to have kids, learn to support them and dont expect earned income credit from the governement, after all that money should be going to pay for national defence, the judicial system yada yada yada …and i would have expected you to say ” distribute vouchers” because probably you would have thought at the time, that would have made all the scroungers suffer, having to buy food instead of wiis and alcohol…………now that they get to feed their kids, that’s still too comfy for you………so let’s make them suffer more…even if both parents are working, and heating and gas has gone up, (yes i do know it has come down in price right now, so you dont have to remind me of that)…and their income hasnt gone up adeqately………..just perish as herr marcus would say.
before you correct this spelling error……immoral
kernellink…………yes i know there is such a thing as unemployment, but marcus doesnt want the government to butt in and give assistance, so really that money for unemployment shouldnt be collected by the government, probably by a private company
and kernellink……yeah there was a great number of jobs available in the depression………. and tell me, as you appear to be an expert, what was employment situation back in the middle ages? and then during slavery, when the africans were taking the jobs from americans…….they survived though
If two parents are both working to support a family and they still aren’t getting by, maybe it’s time they look for a new job or try to further their education which will in turn enable them to get a higher paying job. Again, it comes down to common sense. Life is tough, learn to survive or starve.
mmm cornhusk you sound so so much like marcus…..gotta work on changing your style of writing to fool people
Is that the best you could come up with? accusing me of being someone else? Why don’t you ask a moderator to check IP’s, and then you can put your foot in your mouth for us. Have a great day, you’re not worth my time anyway.
im not an expert on this site, and im not that concerned about asking a moderator………or whoever…….if im wrong im wrong, im not getting into a tizzy over it like you little boy.
happy christmas if you are a christan
happy hannukah if you are a jew
happy kwanzaa if you are of african descent
hope you had a happy Eid al-Adha
happy yuletide if you are a wiccan/pagan
and findally if mr kinky kernel you are one of those so cool agnostics
….have a great time hijacking all the holidays and eating and drinking and being merry
if you are one of those, i meant to say……..
I make too much to receive an earned income credit, thankyaverymuch. If I did qualify for the EIC, I’d definitely jump for it. I don’t agree with it being available, but if any schmuck could claim it, I wouldn’t want to pass it up.
I graciously accepted the “stimulus check” earlier this year. Wasn’t happy about it, but I accepted it.
I’m against the premise of the programs, and would be much happier in my day to day life if they did not exist, but I’m not going to push money away that has been taken from me over the course of my life if it’s being sent my way. I’d be an idiot not to claim it.
I’d be happy to be given the choice to opt out of funding these programs and forfeit my ability to draw from them if that choice was made available. The fact that we don’t have an option other than shoving money into a communal social fund is the problem. Let us keep it.
you werent too happy about the stimulus check, i dont know if it worked or not, but by it’s very name it was meant to stimulate the economy……………shame on the economy that it needed some stimulation!!! It needs to stand on it’s on feet and not get some government hand out!!
You are what? twenty something, and you know how to deal with society. Run for the senate, congress or whatever and see how many people vote for your ill informed agenda and your immature ramblings.
It quite obviously did not work.
Shame on the government for regulating us into a recession. Hopefully it doesn’t turn into a depression, though some would argue that that’s already upon us.
You don’t have a clue.
you know what, i didnt say it did work did i? I’m just astounded that you so special that you felt obliged to take the check, like you are so special, that it was an effort for you to accept it. Marcus, you are full of it, because i dont agree with you doesnt mean i dont have a clue…….oh yeah i dont agree with you so somehow i must not be as learned as the mighty marcus!!
Bring your head out for some air
LOL
I can’t do anything but laugh at you.
huh, well keep laughing, do i really care what an ineffectual person like you thinks of me? You’ve lived a cloistered little life little boy, do yourself a favor, expand your horizons,…even if you still hold the same views so be it………..but right now you are merely a pseudo intellectual.
A friend of mine, her dad has a doctorate, and is a scientist. I believe he started college late and his wife worked to support them and their two children, and at times they received food stamps, because her job was just a regular one, not a career, just something really basic. This man, obviously having a doctorate and doing important work is a highly intelligent person, who contributes to society. I believe he has more than paid back financially to society and paid society through the work he does.
Now, he bettered himself, but along the way received food stamps. So you want to keep these people down, let his children go hungry, even though his intelligence is superior to yours.
Not everyone is going to get a phd, but these people do jobs that the economy needs, albeit a janitor, and may better themselves through time, but not everyone is going to be a CEO, an actor or a rocket scientist.
and just to add, i think your problem is you lack self worth…….or be brazen on this forum, and shove your ego in everyone’s face…….but deep down you have low self esteem and have to make yourself feel good by critisising those who are struggling a bit in society.
Still making me laugh.
I’ve met some pretty dumb (common sense / life dumb) college grads. Intelligence is not measured by the amount of money you pour into your schooling. Anybody can be trained to do any job with the right amount of money and time dedicated to training.
Mr. PhD didn’t have to go to school and leave his family cold for the years that it took him to get through it – for that he is a coward, regardless of the end result. I do what I have to do to get by…if that means pouring concrete, framing houses, or working the line at Jack in the Box, so be it. I’d love to go for a degree, better my career options…but my family doesn’t deserve the turmoil that it would cause.
I accept my responsibilities and will stick to them. I did take myself every step of the way to where I am today after all. I look in my little boy’s face, and can’t help but smile. He will never go hungry, and he will be raised to be a strong man. I sure hope that he’ll have little tolerance for social program loving sissies that need a cop-out / bail-out. Work for what is yours, and fail if it comes your way. Build yourself back up. You’ll be a better person for it.
I may not ever amount to as much as I would like to, but in the end I’ll be satisfied. If you can be satisfied living off of a dollar earned by somebody else, that’s your deal. Good for you.
he didnt leave his family in the cold, excuse me!!! correct me if i am wrong,and i know you would, but didnt you say that if the parents arent making enough money they should get another job or further their education!! And as a matter of fact this gentleman was able to work, albeit not a 40 plus hour week.
You are a very dumb person, now you are being critical of someone improving themselves to better their financial situation, and this paticular person betters society.
…and now you are sounding downright jealous, you say something, like people should further their education, then change what you said when it comes back to bite you. Pathetic!
Apparently i m not a better person despite the fact i did it all by myself, house, car, comfortable surrounding, apparently im dumb because i can see the sense in lending a hand to society. Id call you a sociopath because you care about nothing but yourself and your trophy family, but that isnt the right description, im still thinking, though maybe you do have some sort of personality disorder………no that is too strong a statement to make, i think probably self esteem issues
LOL
There’s only one thing that can keep growing without nourishment: the human ego.
—Marshall Lumsden
ok so in your opinion food stamps from “welfare” are unacceptable, and if people cant find a job, no money, let them and their kids survive. Now that is the visible welfare state, what about the invisible welfare state?
well i meant to say the hidden welfare state, as opposed to invisible
Government sponsored welfare is unacceptable.
Holy crap batman!! You guys are STILL at it? Walk away Marcus….just walk away. After 8 hours, trust me, ou won’t convince her otherwise.
And for tiger lily i offer you the words from the great Vince Neil from Motely Crue: Girl, don’t go away mad, girl, just go away.
well if you googled hidden welfare, you’d realise it’s not for the poor and the minorites………..oh and i will be heading off, gotta get to work, got to earn the dollars to pay for the foodstamp people, so that the grocery store makes money and those employees make money and spend the money, so that i can make the money….
OH im just sitting here reading your posts on foodstamps, i get them every month and we do eat good………oh i just luvvvv my cereal, none of that generic stuff, i gotta have the name brands. Nothin i like better than to sit and watch oprah and maury, i loves to watch those there shows about the husbands cheating with the mom in laws….ims thinkin goin on the sho cause im seein my 18 year old dawters boy friend, he’s 20, im only 39, and sometimes we git into callin names, i means its free ent rprise, u knoww wwhere’s its survival of the fittest, and my bodies looking way way better than hers body is…maybe it is caause i eats lots of frozwn pizzes, and i love my mountains dew, and i always st ocks ups on my twinkies and my steaks and always cooks eggs and steaak for breakfast, and then wes got money to go buys an ipud for cchristssmas and a plasma tv. marcus u are aa naughty boy because i dont want to have to eat mac and cheeeses, please sweetie come see me and ill change your there mind, or i got four dawters, destiny, amethyst, marie antoinette and enchanted, maybe you like to meet of my hot girls.
Like I said, government sponsored welfare is unacceptable. I’m familiar with hidden welfare, I don’t care who receives it, welfare is unacceptable.
I’d love to meet a few of your daughters tonight MOMMA BEAR. Which one has the best rack, and which one is hiding the most junk in the trunk? My wife and I would love to make their acquaintance.
Years back, the bank, “Wells Fargo,” was named Idaho Bank & Trust. Members of my family were the 2nd largest trust holders of the bank, and made millions when it sold to a different bank; one before finally selling to Wells Fargo.
Before being in the banking business, a family member was head of what is now called the “State of Idaho Division of Financial Management.” Another family member owned a bank in Malad, but that bank went under more than 50 years ago.
Once out of the banking business, the millions of dollars were invested, and my uncle set up his will requiring the money to remain with the “Wells Fargo” bank, his widow to receive the monthly income off the interest upon his death, and once she dies, that income be transferred to their adult twins. One of those twins has 2 kids, and his will further instructed that once they reached adulthood the money (all of it) would then become their rightful property.
My uncle died several years ago, and my aunt has been living very well off the thousands she receives every month off the interest. The twins are 49 years old, and the children of the one twin are ages 8 and 13. Then this great recession hit, and 90% of the monthly interest was cut. It’s hurting the whole family, but I’d have to get waaay too personal to tell you how; so won’t.
Why are banks and automakers being bailed out? Because they are the big “movers” in the economic environment. They supply the jobs and the money to the people to keep the wheels turning. If they aren’t bailed out then, it’s the people who lose. Same with welfare.
Food stamps and other social programs are available to help them in need keep their wheels spinning. Once they can turn those wheels on their own then, they will and they will also help those that need the help.
It’s a give and take world, Marcus, like it or not. You are not an island in the ocean to oneself.
oh i’m sure that marcus will have a “good” comeback to that!
It’s all their fault, theyre idiots, dont they know they gotta pick themselves up and be stronger for it. There is not any place in american society for the government helping anyone out…blah blah blah, and whatever other ramblings he comes out with.
You said it correctly when you said you gotta keep the wheel spinning, even if someone is getting foodstamps in their time of need, it’s still keeping the economy running, like i said im working, some of my taxes helping out for foodstamps, the grocery stock making money, paying the employees, the employees spending money, helping others making money!!
I dont think i really have met such an obnoxious attitude like this before