Time to Rethink Food Stamps?
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I am the original bleeding heart. I mean that.
However, lately, I’ve been rethinking the whole concept of state-sponsored charity - namely, food stamps. This is mainly because every time I go to WinCo, I leave mad as hell.
You know what I’m talking about. I’m talking about you going through the store, being very careful to pick up the generic brands, avoiding the pre-made meals section, buying in bulk, eating before you shop … you know, being a “smart shopper”, as we like to call ourselves. You make a neat, tidy list before you leave for the store, you shut out your peripheral vision while you shop to avoid tasty, colorful tempations. You are on a mission, and that mission is to keep your weekly grocery bill below $50, and you usually succeed.
Then you get to the checkout lane.
The person ahead of you looks like they haven’t bathed in a few weeks. They’re usually wearing a faded t-shirt from the ‘85 Foreigner tour (with Styx … totally freakin’ awesome) and have about a dozen kids bouncing in and out of their cart. Their cart is overflowing with every imaginable type of junk food - muffins, cupcakes, ice cream, TV dinners, mac ‘n’ cheese, sugar-laced cereals, sodey pop … the list goes on and on. If you’re like me, you’re disgusted at the kind of food these people are giving their kids. You want to call the police and report them for child abuse or give them a pamphlet with the food pyramid.
But you don’t. You let them check out while you read up on the latest on Brangelina.
After about an hour, the clerk is done, and the tab is usually upwards of $150. Junk food is expensive. Then, it happens. Mr. Foreigner-loving-rabbit-breeding-mullet-head casually pulls out his card. Nope, not his debit card. Not a credit card. He pulls out the old Quest card.
This brings up a question - is it time to rethink our food stamps program? Isn’t it just another contributing factor to our national obesity epidemic? Is allowing food stamps to be used for fatty foods and unhealthy dishes another way that the state is contributing to our national health crisis, if not allowing the ongoing child abuse stemming from teaching kids bad eating habits?
What is worse is when you see the remaining total after the food stamps have covered most of the garbage in the basket - usually somewhere around $10 … most of the time, this is for beer and/or cigarettes.
If the state is able to regulate what food stamps cover, why not stop at beer and cigarettes? Should we extend the limitations to remove sugar-drenched soda, candy, unhealthy cereal, and other junk food? Or, should those who cannot afford food for their families but can afford to feed an alcohol or nicotine addiction be exempt from the program?
To illustrate my point, I will tell you about someone I know very well. She was raised in a loving, caring home, but rejected that for a life of sex and drug abuse. She became pregnant at age 16, dropped out of school, and became addicted to cigarettes. Recently, she moved back home after her baby’s daddy moved away, and signed up for the food stamps program. After hearing how much she would recieve on a monthly basis, her first response was “Hey guys, now I can make that shrimp thing that I couldn’t afford before!”
I rest my case.
Like I said, I am the original bleeding heart, and I believe that the State can do much to help those in need, but the case of this girl I know and the countless times I have been disgusted in the checkout lane highlight a desperate need for reformation of the system, if not a total revamp.
Perhaps we should limit WIC coverage to cheese, milk, bread, fresh and canned veggies, fresh and frozen meats, and healthy juices. Perhaps we should require applicants to quit smoking (we could even cover nicotine patches under WIC!) and control their beer habits. That’s not to say that beer is inherently bad or that people who drink it are irresponsible - I actually very much enjoy a beer or two from time to time. However, when my budget doesn’t allow, you know what I do? I go without.
Maybe there is a lesson in that concept for the future of our food stamps program - perhaps it’s time the state allows our children to go without. That is, to go without sugar and fat, to go without inhaling noxious fumes from cigarettes, to go without junk food in exhange for a healthy alternative - real food.
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Comments
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0 I agree that something needs to be done with the food stamp guidelines.
But first to clarify, WIC is for pregnant or nursing mothers, and for young children. WIC only covers milk or formula, baby cereal, cheese, eggs, carrots, beans, peanut butter, juice and cereal (only fiber enriched, no sugar cereals). There is only a few different kinds of cereals you can get on WIC. The only ones I can remember right now are Cherios, Kix, Shredded Wheat, and a few hot cereals. It used to irritate me when people would come through my line and try to get the sugary cereals and get mad when I would show them the list of approved cereals they could choose from. Their response was, well my kids don’t like those kinds. They totally didn’t get that WIC was as much for the nutrition needs as well as the financial help.
And the food stamp issue always irritated me as well. I could always tell the people who really needed the help. They were buying the cheaper food and trying to make it stretch as far as possible. (Just like those of us on a budget do)
And then you get those who buy all the junk food, and all the expensive meat, pop, etc. And then they turn around and spend $50 cash on beer and cigarretes. I even had a couple people try to convince me to run their cigarettes as food so they could use their food stamps. As if losing my job was worth it to me to sell them cigarettes. I also had a lady come through my line just before Christmas with a $40 Prime Rib, and big sheet cake from the bakery and a cart load of pop, and precede to pay with food stamps. I was furious. If she is poor enough to need food stamps, she shouldn’t be having a party which that stuff was obviously for. When I don’t have the money for things like that, I just don’t buy it.
Now I realize that food stamps are there for a reason, and there are people who really need the help, and not everybody takes advantage of the system. BUT, I have seen too many people taking advantage of the system and I think they should enforce some guidelines as to what can be purchased with food stamps. First of all, I don’t think junk food (candy, chips, pop, ice cream, etc.)should be allowed. In fact I think that before those items are allowed, they should consider adding necessities such as toilet paper.
If they would enforce stricter guidelines, fewer people would be able to take advantage of the system.
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0 0 I’ve heard the Mormon church’s welfare program requires recipients to perform work to earn the money. The work can be as simple as cleaning some church buildings, but something is required. I’ve also heard most people who inquire about welfare from the Mormon church express disappointment in this requirement and don’t pursue it.
Perhaps if Idaho setup work programs to earn the welfare money?
It could be run similar to the prison work system, but of course not as harsh and treating the people with more dignity.
The work could be picking up trash in our parks and the greenbelt, serving as crosswalk guards, washing city vehicles, etc. At the end of the shift the work supervisor could note how many ‘credits’ they get.
I realize the work supervisors would be a cost, but then we could have savings on city workers who currently do those jobs.
Could this solution help discourage people who really don’t need the assistance and help beautify IF without increased costs?
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0 0 Quest cards are not always for food stamp / welfare purposes.
In some cases that is how people receive their child support payments. I have a family member who had to take the deadbeat parent to court to get child support. The state stepped in to help and garnished the deadbeats wages. My family member then received the child support money from the state in the form of a Quest Card account. Just something to think about next time you get angry about how someone is using their Quest card. Not everyone is poor, a welfare recipient, etc.
My family member was embarrassed to use the card a lot. Despite the fact she was making near six figures she had a Quest card. And invariably she always got dirty looks when she went to use it.
I don’t know how to leave a link but if you google -Idaho quest cards child support - you’ll see I’m right.
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0 0 Good point!
Should we give welfare recipients a different card so we can identify and thus glare at them in lines? Perhaps a scarlet letter?
Is glaring at Jeremy’s described typical scene (I agree it boils my blood too) just attacking the symptoms of the larger problem?
Why get mad at that person individually when they just took advantage of what the system offered?
How to change the system, and get at the real problem instead just the symptoms?
One strategy could be my work idea, what are other ideas?
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1 0 I propose state-mandated sterilization. There are too many people on this planet. We have crossed the sustainability of the current population - 6.4 billion people. Why on Earth would anyone want to keep adding indiscrimately to the problem. Required sterilization is the key!
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0 0 The LDS church not only requires work for the help given, it does not provide junk food in any way shape or form. Recipients go to a store house that gives the truly poor basic foods; meat, potatoes, vegetable, etc. plus a simple cookbook to teach people how to put these ingredients together for nutritious, tasty meals.
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0 0 Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
I like the idea for simple cookbooks also. People on welfare obviously are not controlling their money well, perhaps passing basic economics and personal money management classes could be mandated?
If we were going to redesign welfare from start to finish, what would we change?
What is the need for public assistance?
What are the goals for public assistance?
How to carry out those goals so society and recipients get the best bang for the buck in reaching those goals?
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0 0 I admit I have limited knowlege regarding how the system actually works, but today’s blog stemmed from my shopping trip yesterday when the lady in front of my used food stamps (I know this because the screen said “FOOD STAMPS”). So perhaps it’s not a widespread a problem as I originally thought, but there is still a problem with the system.
I like the Bishop’s Storehouse program mentioned by Paula. That’s the way it should be.
So instead of a blank check, perhaps the State should draw up contracts with local farmers, bakers, food producers and distributers to mimick the Mormons’ system. It would help the people and local farmers, as well as weed out the abuses.
What do you all think?
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0 0 The American Way used to be hard work. Now it’s figuring out how to game the system to your advantage. And, unfortunately, the government makes it pretty easy. Case in point: My wife and I were shocked when school started to find out that we qualify for the reduced price school lunch program. My wife thought for sure the lady at the school was drinking Drano when she told us, but I found the income guidelines the government uses. I make more than $20 an hour as a technical writer. If I made another 13 cents an hour, we would be on the cusp of not qualifying, based on our family size (three children). Federal programs make it too easy. There are more people on “welfare” than you think.
I’ve seen the LDS Welfare progam in action, and it works. Recipients do indeed have to work for what they get — and that’s after they’ve got jobs and have also tapped on family for support before going to the church. Dubya has made a lot of noise about getting “Faith-based” groups more involved in federal welfare programs, to mixed success.
Then again, I’d like to know who died and made us all judges of the people we see. There are abusers. But these programs, especially WIC, work to the advantage of many families. We don’t always know people’s circumstances, though it’s a fair bet if they’re buying prime cuts of beef and junk food, they’re just morons. But sterilization? Harsh, dude. Whenever anyone suggests that, I say, get in line first. This world’s problem isn’t overpopulation, it’s greed.
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0 0 That is true we don’t know everyone’s circumstances. I actually personally know a few people who have had situations where they had to be on food stamps. I agree the system helps many families in need. I just think there needs to be more of a checks and balance system in place to minimize the number of people who abuse the system.
And as far as the child support payments being used in this form, I know that that is true. Child Support, Welfare payments, and I could be wrong, but I think disability payments as well are issued on Qwest cards. That is unfortunate and not right that your friend is treated this way just because they have a Qwest card.
As a cashier I knew which purchases were actually food stamps because the customer had to tell me if it was food stamps or a cash payment. It is ran as cash (at least where I worked) because they can actually use an ATM and withdraw the cash like a debt card.
And state mandated sterilization?! Who died and made you God? Nobody has the right to say that somebody else should be sterilized. It’s none of your business if I have no kids or if I have 10 kids. I agree with Brian, get in line first.
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0 0 I think people should have the right to pick what they want to eat. The government already has way to much control over other issues. Why give them more control? A work program to earn the food?? What about the disabled people that can’t work?> does that mean they should just starve>>? and what about the old folks? Should they be forced to grab the good old walker or wheel chair and goto work? And risk a heart attack?
There is nothing wrong with food stamps. Its a supliment not a month supply of food. It just helps families cope with not having enough money. I get 70.00 a mo and wic for my children. It helps when daycare bills are out of control. And half my paycheck goes to child support and daycare. Gas prices is killing us too. Also rent is real high. Some people need the help. Who has time to work another program when you already have 2 jobs and can’t make it?
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0 0 How does the Mormon Church’s welfare program take into account disabilities?
Disabled people can still do some thing, right? I’ve known some who would be happy to do many things, because they don’t get many chances elsewhere.
Of course totally disabled people would have to be exempted. Our ideas here seem to be fiscally conservative and trying to get mileage for the money, not being coldhearted.
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0 0 Guest –
I can tell the food stamp and assistance program has helped you, and you sound like you don’t take advantage of the situation. I believe the posts on this topic stress the upsetting situations of a few. You state there is nothing wrong with the system, I disagree. My friend’s ex-wife, receives almost $1,000 a month in child support and to pay for his part of “work related child care expenses†aka. Daycare. She in turn is a full time student, works 0 hours a week except during the summer for 2 months, so she can earn just enough to qualify for full financial aid and government assistance. She pays $40 a month for rent, and receives over $200 a month in food stamps, and an unknown amount of monetary assistance for living expenses. Now you do the math. She is a single mother whose marriage did not last. With two elementary age students it is hard yes, but she does not work at all. My friend pays for childcare even on the days she does not have class. She is not working during those days; she is at Barnes and Noble enjoying her lattes! There has never been a bigger proponent for single mother assistance, because my mother was one, but she worked her *ss off for us. We had free lunches, but if the child support check didn’t come, we didn’t pay rent. This women is living off the state, literally. My friend doesn’t begrudge her for the child support. He understands the need to help pay for his two children, but it pains me each time I have to enter that $10 box on my Idaho State Income Tax knowing I am paying for her to not work at all!
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0 0 Joe- in answer to your question as to how the LDS church handles welfare for the disabled and elderly. Almost everyone, unless they are a quadraplegic, suffer from Alzheimers, etc. can do SOMETHING. And most of the truly needy, ESPECIALLY the disabled and elderly, take great pride in being able to earn their own way. Take a tour of Deseret Industries,or any area thrift store sometime. There are people whose job is to simply cut buttons off nonusable clothing. (You can buy great jars of assorted buttons there at DI) There are people sorting incoming donations, cleaning small applicances, stocking shelves, making deliveries, putting clothes on hangers,etc. Even homebound individuals can cut quilt squares which are made into warm blankets and shipped to disaster areas. They can assemble humanitarian kits (hygiene, newborn, school kits) to send to third world countries. Shut ins can knit booties for infants or crochet special bandages for lepers. Yes, this horrid plague still exists in parts of the world.
It is a great disservice to people who CAN contribute to strip them of the pride and dignity that results from an honest days work. As to the next question, how can the government incorporate some of these ideas? I don’t know, because most of the labor and the goods in this church’s system are donated - from production on the church farm to the cannery to managing the storehouse. But this I do know, as long as we have a system of handing out fish, we are not going to produce a generation of fishermen.
When you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you’re not going to hear a lot of complaints from Paul.
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0 0 Speaking of state mandated sterilization…don’t think it hasn’t happened in our country’s past history. We sterilized as few as 40,000 and perhaps over 100,000 people in this country, some as late as the 1960’s. Buck vs. Bell, the 1927 Supreme Court decision, legalized sterilization of a third generation welfare recipient, Carrie Buck, in Virginia. The law was used extensively throughout the country with California the leading state in numbers of sterilizations. Supreme Court justice, Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote the majority opinion in Buck vs. Bell and his speech was quoted in the movie “Judgement at Nuremberg” by the defense attorney representing the German judge on trial (played by Bert Lancaster).
This is an interesting historical view of how our grandfathers handled some of the problems we presently face regarding welfare. Anyone interested can Google… Buck vs. Bell and read more about it.
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0 0 Sure there are alot of problems with the Health and Welfare system. They tend to help women more than men. Single fathers do not get much from them. My ex has the son. And I have the Daughter. We make the same income. She gets 400.00 a mo food assistance and housing. I get 70.00 a mo food assistance and no housing. And any disputes in court over custody or child support. She gets a free lawyer and help I get a 2,000.00 legal bill from a lawyer. the system isnt fair. Your right some people do abuse the system and get away with it. We have to shop very carefully and make alot of home made dinners and lunches. Maybee someone can post a story about easy and cheap meals you can make that are healthy. My point is Some people already work real hard and do not have time to work for the assistance. And what about day care expenses?? If they made everyone work for the assistance they can’t afford the daycare expenses. daycare cost alot. They could have used that money to buy the food. Most people that are getting benifits do not have the extra money to pay daycare expenses to work for the food. And also have a busy schedule Its different for everyone’s case. I know a gal that is raising 2 autisitc boys on her own. And gets no child support her ex husband he is in prison for life. She gets 1,200.00 a mo in social security for the 2 boys. And she should be on social security she has some serious mental illness. And has counseling apointments, docor apointments, school apointments for her and the boys. Then house work etc she doesnt have time for her self let alone any program that would make her work for food. She is mormon too. the church doesnt ask her to work for it becuase they know she can’t.
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0 0 Wait … so were you being serious with the manditory sterilization comment? I thought for sure that comment was one of those stupid e-smartass things you see from time to time … but seriously?
That’s scary.
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0 0 Stephen J. Gould wrote a complete chapter on Buck vs. Bell in one of his books (I can’t remember which one). Paraphrasing Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., “We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices….Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”
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0 0 I am absolutely serious about mandated sterilization. Responsibility is what we are talking about. Case and point; animals. They don’t know how to be responsible, so we sterilize them to help limit the problem of overpopulation. Same should happen with humans. Should they not live responsibly with family planning, etcetera, then they should be forced to be responsible. We have laws in this land to reign in living beyond responsibilities. Having too many children that one cannot support is irresponsible. Is it incumbent on society to carry the responsibility of those who don’t give a damn? I suppose to a certain extent, yes, but there has to be a line of delineation. Snip, Snip. Problem reduced. Can there not be any better solution?
People need to wake up and see that the current course is not one of long term survival. Drastic changes will be needed. This is only one!
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0 0 The Chinese realized many years ago that they could not keep on having multiple children families and survive as a nation. They mandate a one child limit per household and force abortions on those women who already have a child. This may seem extreme to us in this country, but we have not reached our “load carrying capacity” as the Chinese have done already.
Mandatory sterilization as a form of eugenics is a repulsive throwback to Nazi Germany to most of us but I wonder how we would feel if we too became as overpopulated as India and China, to name a few, now are. Would we then seek ways to limit our population as a means of survival?
Would we have government agencies that decided who could and could not reproduce? Scary, huh?
Sorry for getting off track on this food stamp issue, Jeremy, but I wasn’t the first one to do it.
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0 0 I’ll support mandatory sterilization if we can start with people like Tom to make sure that there are no more little “Toms” coming into the world.
Of course I’m not serious but its scary to think that there are actually people out there who believe what he does.
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0 0 Tom - you are obviously without flaw and have always acted responsibly. Perhaps you should cast the first stone?
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0 0 Well its toms opinion. I may not agree with his remedy. I think everyone should be heard even thou its not what everyone wanted to hear. I would like to see families go back to the morals americans had over 75 years ago. Unfortunatly the economy wont allow that. It takes everyone working 1-2 jobs to make a good living. you can’t support the family on 1 income anymore. Food stamps is good for the most part. And so is medacaid. Its hard to pass on good morals to your children if your always at work and they are always in daycare. You can,t even dish out a good woopin like our parents did to us as kids. I remember the sting of a willow stick on the rear end. I sure was a good kid.
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0 0 Psychologically, day care is very good for kids. Kids over the age of two should be in day care for at lease six hours a day, four days a week. It teaches them to share and begins the socialization process.
Also, “dishin’ out a good whoopin” may have worked on you, but scientifically and statistically, it’s ineffective. There’s nothing wrong with sparring the rod.
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0 0 Oh I am sorry jeremy your right. Your always right. No one else is correct. Only you.
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0 0 Guest, The point isn’t that there are people who genuinely need help, people who are doing all they can to provide for their families. We’re talking about able bodied people who don’t see the need to work for what they get or who do not make wise decisions with the money they are given - like the woman in front of me at the checkout buying steak with food stamps all the while telling the clerk how much her dog loves sirloin. ALL tax payers should be appalled at such abuse of the system! It’s not about “feelings” It’s about common sense!
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0 0 I still disagree. the comments he made sterio typing people. he is basicly saying people on food stamps are filthy ,and smell, have several kids,wear old clothes, You know what the comments jeremy made are very wrong. I do not think its anyones buisness to control what people choose to eat. I am sorry to offend anyone. But I find the sterio typing poor people wrong and also trying to take away the right to choose what they eat. The system gives people what they are aloted due to income. If that person waiste the food stamps big deal . They suffer from it. Junk food?? no one has the right to tell people what to eat. You all think its ok because they are poor and shouldnt have any rights. I just would like to see people come up with a point of view that is origianl not a follow the leader comment.
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0 0 Then for him to say in order to get on wic they can’t smoke or drink??? There is no way that will ever fly. This is the United States we all have rights. I do not smoke or drink. anmd still find it ofensive that someone can make comments about poor people that steriotype them. Just becuase you do not like the way someone eats you want to call the police on them and waiste the cops time? Child abuse? Child abuse? Come on . Rethink what your saying. Do you really believe what you are saying? Its like me saying I dont like the way a homeless person looks. We should make a new law that they cant get food or shelter if they smoke. I dont even know why I bother. No one cares about poor people in general on here. I do and would give them money , clothes,food,and any help they really needed. What if that family purchased all the junk food because they didnt have power at home. or didnt even have a home. wow they should go out and purchase stuff thats hard to make? I have been homeless before and iot wasnt my fault. If they had laws like yours we would have had to eat uncooked raw foods and risk getting sick. People shop the way they do for a reason. maybe they work alot and the kids need stuff they can eat in a hurry. things they can just eat with out cooking. Sometimes junk food is good.
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0 0 FYI)))) I like what Former Grocery Clerk had to say that was responsible and didnt really steriotype people as being smelly and wearing old clothes. He made a good point. Im the person that uses the assistance very carefully. And budgets it real good. And some times I want a big fat choclate cake. The food stamps isnt to provide food for a month its only to help get thru a few weeks .
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0 0 JOes comments about the cook books that was a real good idea. I agree about making people work for food. If they don’t have to many comitments like a job and kids. Like i said day care is expensive why would someone wanting help go rack up a big bill with a daycare?
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0 0 Paula,
Did you ask the woman with the steak if she was on welfare? Because as has been pointed out that Qwest card may be how she receives child support. And if thats the case then she should be able to spend the money on the card how she wants.
Everyone needs to remember the old saying about what happens when you ASSUME.
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0 0 Guest - Chill out. I made the comments about “Smelly Joe” as a joke. Notice the two different tones of the article - the first half is satire, the second presents my thesis. Nowhere in my thesis did I say anything to the effect that “people on food stamps are filthy poor people” - the only mention of “filthy Joe” was anecdotal and in good humor. I happen to be a huge foreigner fan and have seen Styx live. So really, chill out.
If you read the contents of the article, you’ll find that I never said that these people should not be allowed to eat junk food, my point was that it is not our job to enable them to do it. I do believe that teaching your children poor eating habits is child abuse - how could it not be? Just because the damage you’re doing to your kids isn’t visible doesn’t mean you’re not hurting them.
Your last point doesn’t make any sense to me - “junk food is good”. There is no reason to excuse the purchase of soda, ice cream, salty and sugary snacks, etc. by saying that it’s quick and easy to eat. Again, if they want to eat that way, fine - but I don’t think it’s the state’s job to pay for it. If they want a quick meal for their children, why not pick up a few boxes of SuperMac? How about canned pasta?
Your argument about them not having a home or electricity is trivial. Who is making stereotypes now? The poor sector in Idaho Falls are not on the streets or squaters - they are the workforce working minimum wage jobs. They pay too much for medical care and rent (or mortgage). This is why they are on food stamps - not because they live under the Hiway.
You seem to think I have a problem with food stamps - not the case! I think it’s a great program. However, I think it needs changes. We need to encourage healthy eating habits rather than encourage the increasingly deadly obesity epidemic in America.
Look, I used to eat crap, too. It’s sexy. It’s enticing. The food tastes good, it fills you up quickly. However, when I ate that way, I was overweight and unhappy. When I cut out fast food and junk food, I lost 40 pounds and my cholestrol dropped. So isn’t removing non-foods from food stamps just another step in solving our fat epidemic? Isn’t that a more responsible use of our tax dollars?
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0 0 Excellent response, Jeremy, it was everything I was going to respond with also.
I agree with the idea that junk food shouldn’t be prohibited from welfare recipients’ lives (no “pop police” raiding their refridgerators), but why should the public pay for sugar highs?
I agree the food stamps program needs to be restricted to healthier foods. I would also make it a rule that cigarettes and beer cannot be purchased in the same shopping run! If a shopper uses a Quest card to buy groceries and immediately throws up a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes to buy with their cash, make it so cashiers must refuse the second purchase. If they want the extras they would have to physically exit the store, re-enter, and get in line again. The idea here is to make it that much more difficult to get those things that make everyone mad.
I hope the legislature makes this change in the next session.
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0 0 I dont think smoking and drinking beer should exlude someone from having stamps or having to go thru the line again. Its like in our american history we used to make black people sit in the back of the bus because they had dark skin. now your saying lets put people who smoke or drink in the back of the line. lol things never change they are just substituted for some other form of opression.
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0 0 The difference: People choose to smoke and drink. Vice is not a qualifier for segregation. Segregation is oppression because of race or ethnicity.
And do you really mean to compare society not accepting self-destructive activities to segregation? Are you really going to open up that can of worms? There is no comparison.
Besides, you are missing the point - we are not saying that people cannot drink or smoke any more than we are saying they cannot eat junk - we are saying that the state will not fund it.
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0 0 I don’t think it has anything to do with opression. Maybe its just the way the comments have been worded. It is just very frustrating to see how much money people spend on beer and cigarettes (and lottery tickets for that matter). Yet they have to use food stamps for their food. If they are in a situation where they need to have assistance with buying food, they should be required to cut their costs where they can such as alcohol and tobacco. Those items are not necessities. The system is meant to help you get by, not make it so you can afford to buy your alcohol and tobacco products.
At least the Qwest card controls what you buy a little more than the old paper food stamps used to. People could buy a candy bar with food stamps and get change back for anything less than a dollar. Some people used to go through the lines buying one candy bar at a time until they had enough change to purchase their cigarettes or whatever. That should have never been allowed to happen. That is no different than using your food stamps to pay for it.
I think too often some people (not everyone, but some people) become used to using the assistance as a lifestyle and have no motivation to try to better themselves, or even work for what they get if they are able to. It is almost like they think they are entitled to it or something.
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0 0 I guess I did miss the point here all I see from the Topic is everyone wanting to Control peoples choices they make.
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0 0 While I sympathize with the idea of trying to force welfare people to stop buying cigarettes and beer, this doesn’t bother me at all in comparison to the notion that people are advocating the government step into peoples homes and try to control what they eat, drink, and do in their private time. I’d rather have people abuse the system than allow big brother to have this kind of control. Because once the government gets that power its not long before they start trying to expand it to other things.
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0 0 To further expound on my thinking. Consider the following which I think is a very plausible next step if the government starts controlling what welfare recipients can eat. I’m using teachers as an example but you could easily substitute any government job that is financed through tax dollars.
Joe Smith is in the grocery line and he is seething. The local school district just passed a levy to raise taxes in order to pay for a teacher raise. But right there in front of him is his son’s teacher. And that blankity blank teacher is buying beer, Doritos, and Twinkies. The nerve of that SOB to cry for a raise and then go out and waste her money on junk food like this. If those teachers want a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste their money like this. It’s my tax dollars. Someone should pass a law saying that if these teachers get a raise then they shouldn’t be allowed to waste it on junk food like this.
Once you open the door to government control over what people eat and drink then its not a big step to the further control of others. The remote possibility of this is much worse to me than any anger I have about the fact that every poor person I know is a chain smoker.
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0 0 As to “control” and “choice”, the following argument could be made: The government does not generate a single dime in revenue. Uncle Sam takes all the money he pays out, whether it be for national defense or for welfare, from us, the taxpayers. That is one reason we have a representative form of government, to insure our voice in how our money gets spent.
If you are buying your own groceries from your own paycheck it is none of my business WHAT you put in your cart. But if I as a taxpayer am picking up the tab I have every right to care about irresponsible choices.
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0 0 Raven, you have a point about the slippery slope, however I disagree because the difference is teacher’s are contributing something of equal value back to the society paying their salaries. The welfare recipient is getting money from the generosity of our society, they are not contributing back something of equal value in exchange.
Once someone has earned their money, whether privately or publicly, of course it’s nobody’s business how they spend it.
Once someone has to ask “the rest of us” to supply them with money instead of them earning it, I think “the rest of us” have a right to attach a few common-sense strings.
One of those strings is not allowing alcohol or tobacco. Disallowing junk food would merely be a scale of the same concept, not a radical departure from precedent.
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0 0 like i was arguing earlier. The welfare recipients have to work if they are able. and they do not get enough assistance to buy the food for a whole month. I will not let someone tell me what to purchase. I pay taxes and get food assistance. And I dont get very much its just a small amount that helps you make ends meet a little better. They dont give flting dead beats food stamps anymore. If you can work they make you. I have 2 jobs and I pay taxes And I am not going to agree that someone has the right to tell me what foods i can get with it. I just don’t agree with anymore control. And as far as Wic is concerned I get that for my children as well and yes they make sure your getting some good foods. But if I want a candy bar and I am out of money and have food assistance I would use it. With out any guilt. BECAUSE I PAY TAXES TOO!!!
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0 0 the ‘guest’ has a tough argument there, we all know working minimum wage is well below poverty and many of those people use public assistance. They are working, and not the most pleasant jobs, either.
How many welfare recipients have no job at all, or work less than 20 hours weekly?
Would it be ethical to dictate their purchases?
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0 0 thank you joe for that. Now I feel better. I am by far not a dead beat. Just a single parent and going thru tough times.
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0 0 I hope they never make a law that says if you have a computer you can’t get assistance.
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0 0 I look at me getting food assistance and I look at it as a tax break more than anything. I still pay more out than recieved.
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0 0 Trust me the system is fine. They really crack down on people and make sure they work. Even single moms with 10 kids has to work. Or she will get kicked off. Unless she is a student. Even people that come across the border to work get assistance. And they pay taxes too.
There are the people that slip thru the cracks by simply getting a job and working for a few days. then the program has to give thme the same time to find another one.
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I like your post Jeremy - I cannot tell you how much I like it. I won’t profess to be the original bleeding heart like you, but I want to make sure children and pregnant women have sound nutrition. It sounds like what you are proposing is a very solid idea. I, too, get angry at the entitlement of what people can get, once they qualify for certain subsidies. And as you mention, almot always the cigarettes and beer are in the check -out cart.
One other that just put me in orbit, is when people receiving whatever forms of public assistance, go to medical or mental health appts. and talk on their flippin cell phones. Like you, when I don’t have the $, I do without. Although I’ve seen it for years, the cell phone thing irks me to no end.
I realize people who find themselves in situations of receiving public assistance are as different as those of us who don’t. I don’t think many of us begrudge senior citizens and others who are buying basics like rice, flour, cheese, dairy products or meat etc. There are also younger people who find themselves in situations that couldn’t be predicted, such as job layoffs, sickness in their family, a delayed/disabled child etc. Yet, I find those are NOT the people for the most part buying fast food or trying to figure out how to make the system work for them.
I have to leave this follow up comment here for now. But, I do hope to be able to add more later. I do believe this to be a very appropriate subject and hope our guests who joined in the chat with also leave comments in the comment section so others may read your views.